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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?



  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    "It's not that hard to quality for the best rates. You do need above average credit though."


    When I financed my 05 Accord last march- I didnt qualify for the best rate and that was with 707 score. The F&I guy said I needed 720(equifax) to get 2.9. I had to settle for 3.9.

    Thats the first time I didnt qualify for the best rate when financing a new vehicle.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    I've been thinking of working in sales part-time (25-30 hrs/week) at our local Carmax. They're advertising for part-time sales help. Hey, college age teenagers are VERY expensive with tuition, car insurance, etc. Does anyone have any advice, good or bad, about Carmax as a place to work to supplement income?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .............. Don't drink the water ..................

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Most dealers charge documentation fees to process all the paperwork involved with the sale of the car. That being said, that price is overboard. IMHO, $50-100 max.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    If you are buying a fleet of vehicles, those are the people to work with. If not, you will most likely be turned over to a sales person on the floor.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    How about ZERO?
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    There is thread devoted to that topic in this DG.
  • ellusionz21ellusionz21 Posts: 59
    I was just wondering what all the fees were and are they a set price or something the dealers can raise or lower. The price of the car is what you end up haggling over first correct? Then they give you the tag, title, and other fees? I live in the Orlando area incase anyone knows the price of them there, if not I have no problem researching them. Just want to primarily know if this is something else I need to work over with a sales person or if its set in stone, and what the list of them all are. Thanks :)
  • cocoa40cocoa40 Posts: 3
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    You sound like a newbie as far as car buying goes. I'd suggest taking someone with you that knows what they're doing. There are some real "snake pits" here in O-lando. Let me know what you're looking for and I might know a decent dealer or sales person.

    IMO, all dealer add-on fees are pure profit and should never be part of the transaction, things like doc. fee, advertising fee, this fee, that fee, are just ways for the dealer to attempt to make more money. I've had some insist on an advertising fee, which I just deduct from what I'd normally offer.
  • ellusionz21ellusionz21 Posts: 59
    I'm planning on getting a new car when I'm done with school, which will be in a year or two. Just studying up so I know what to expect and do when I'm ready. I was checking out those mazda3's they seem real nice.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    You can get A-Plan (which also means no Doc fees), plus rebates and are wanting more?

    A-Plan is under invoice.

    Take it and be happy.

    Or wait for higher rebates.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    When trading in any vehicle to an average dealer:

    Does the dealer care if there is any of the manufacturers' original warranty left?

    All other variables such as model year and seasonal demand aside, will I get any more money by trading in before the warranty ends or does it matter if I wait until it has none left?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    A-plan is a fixed price, dealer can't negotiate no matter how many cars you are buying.
    Take it and be happy.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Available warranty is a factor but not usually the determining one.
  • Some makes do though.....My dealership only sells Certified Pre Owned, and If the customer is trading in a CPO, and it is under 75k and less than 5 years, it can be pre-certified and it costs us less for the complete certification. Im not talking 1000s of dollars of difference. For Example, a customer on traded in a 2002 A4 with 46K miles on it, that was purchased Certified. According to Edmunds the TMV trade in was approx 17200. We gave her 18500 with no over allowance. Mostly because she serviced here and it was a CPO. And a desirable color. It just all depends..... :blush:
  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543
    You have it essentially correct, except that from what I know the interdepartmental charges are at cost not retail levels.
  • danf1danf1 Posts: 935
    In most industries I would say that you are correct, but in the car business interdepartmental charges are more commonly at retail. I know they are at my store.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .. **but in the car business interdepartmental charges are more commonly at retail** ...

    Depending on the store, it may not be "retail" but darn close to it .... cost.? kinda rare occurrence ..

  • wonswons Posts: 10
    Should I be wary of this? I had assumed that I would find a registration and possibly service records. Apparently there are no records with the car, either.
    I have always purchased new cars previously, so I'm new to the game of used cars.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... There has to be "some" record of it .. a company registration, service history via the Vin# through the manufacturer .....

    Whats the make, model, year and the Vin# ...?

  • wonswons Posts: 10
    Hi Terry, thanks for responding. The car in question is a 94 Cadillac DeVille,
    vin # 1G6KD52B5R4226942. Looks to be in immaculate condition, like new.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..... Somethings up -- no record ........ maybe a rebuilt with a flat Vin# ...

    Cars are like people, there has to be "something" .. unless your stealing your 4 year old daughters SS# and starting a new identity, but that's a subject for another time and a different board ...

    No car can go 12 years without a history - any history ..... look at the title and the registration and look at the last 2/3 years of dates ..... I have a stupid feeling there isn't any "2nd year" ..... salvage or rebuilt - pick your choose .....

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .......... or .... you wrote it down wrong .......

  • wonswons Posts: 10
    Well, glad it raised a red flag....I suppose it could be the VIN # was incorrectly transcribed....I will talk to the dealer tomorrow, too late now.

    Thanks, Terry, for your help! I'll let you know what I find out on this.
  • wonswons Posts: 10
    Cross posted....I checked several times to make sure I had it right. Perhaps the dealer wrote it down incorrectly, but it is listed on Carfinder. Thanks again for your help!
  • dealerdealer Posts: 1
    The managers likely talk about the fact that a 10% return on a $30,000 investment shouldn't seem unreasonable to any rational consumer.

    They probably talk about the fact that when they go to Saks to buy a $3,000 suit, they don't try to haggle with the sales associate about the price.

    There's a chance that they see the value in the product, and that they're willing to pay for that value.

    Or, maybe they're just sitting around looking for another way to screw an innocent consumer.....

    Or such is the perception.
  • edkleinedklein Posts: 34
    You know, car prices have become such that it's almost impossible for me to see myself spending much less that $30,000 for a new vehicle (probably a minivan). I wouldn't even go near a place that sold $3,000 suits.

    As for the 10% return on investment business - I think it's difficult to compare car sales to most other retail. For instance, when I do buy suit from some place, the price I pay is pretty much the only chance they have to make anything on the sale. Where as these days, it seems like dealerships are primarily places that do business in repairs, maintenance and accessories and happen to sell cars on the side.

    The other thing is, that suit dealer can shop multiple suppliers and doesn't really have a connection with any them. The Chevy dealer down the road has one and only one supplier - Chevrolet, from which to get his products. He is intimately tied to the manufacturer and the price that he sets for "invoice".

    You say that someone doesn't try to haggle with a sales associate over the price of a suit, and that's generally true. But, the car buyer doesn't get to haggle with GM over their portion of the price. As I see it, that's an issue between the dealers and the manufacturers.

    As it stands now, if I go to dealer A of brand Y and say that dealer C of brand Z is offering a price of $XX for their minivan. But dealer A can only sell for $XX + $2000 because his cost from his manufacturer is that much higher, then dealer A is out of luck.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    The managers likely talk about the fact that a 10% return on a $30,000 investment shouldn't seem unreasonable to any rational consumer.

    They probably talk about the fact that when they go to Saks to buy a $3,000 suit, they don't try to haggle with the sales associate about the price.

    I agree that $3,000 is not an unreasonable profit on a $30,000 product (the difference between invoice and MSRP). However, in my experience (and judging from the many posts I have read in these forums), 10% is not all that the dealer asks for when looking at the deal as a whole! They try to make more profit through the deal in at least a few of the following areas (especially on someone willing to pay MSRP):

    - Selling the vehicle for MSRP (or more on a hot model)
    - Offering less for the trade than its' actual cash value
    - Add-ons
    - "DOC / Dealer Over Charge" fees
    - Charging a higher interest rate than the customer is qualified for
    - GAP insurance and Warranties
    - Post-sale service (oil changes, tire rotations, inspections, warranty work, etc).
    - Manufacturer-to-dealer Incentives (unlisted) such as holdback
    - Other ways I don't even know about?

    Now most of these (individually) offer much greater than 10% profit for the dealer (allowing them to sweeten the deal), especially Add-ons, DOC fees, APR "bumps" and F&I contracts (even 50% and above).

    So, if I feel I have gotten a "good deal" through negotiations on the asking price of the car (agreeing to pay less than 10% over Invoice Price), I can feel OK about paying $350 (or more these days) for a "DOC" fee, financing through the dealer, adding GAP insurance, and taking it there for service; because I'm sure the dealer makes up for it in these other areas, and then it truly is a fair deal for me and the dealer.
  • jasmith52jasmith52 Posts: 461
    Well I did have a friend that was a department store buyer. The clothing that they bought (not suits) typically had a markup of 3 times (ie 300 percent) not the 10 percent that is discussed above. So when you go to those spring/summer clearance sales at the department store where everything is marked half off or buy one get one free, the department store is still making a profit.

    Per the "what's a reasonable profit" discussion, I claim that there is no such thing and that something is worth only what you can buy it for and what someone will sell it for. To suggest otherwise is fuzzy thinking.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Some people just make it difficult and seem to think "profit" is something evil as they try to determine exactly what is "fair".

    They never think or care about this little thing called overhead.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ............. Depending on the store and the volume ... on a $3,000 Brioni suit, the cost runs in and around $300/$350 .. Same goes with furniture, a good piece from Thomasville has a $2,800 retail price, it runs the dealer in and around the $600/$700 range .... let's take a nice Tigre' Ski boat with a $45,000 MSRP and it costs the boat dealer "around" $27/$29,0 depending on the options and his yearly volume .......... what price glory.? ...l..o..l.......

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    when a dealer has several, if not more, of a particular model and color?

    I'm thinking of buying a Corolla for my son, he wants the "S" model in white. And I can see from that several local dealers here have several of those arriving mid-June, all are comparably equipped.

    Would that be the best time to get the best deal possible?
  • wonswons Posts: 10
    Ah, Terry, the dealer did copy it wrong. "U" instead of "4". So, I now have my info.
  • jasmith52jasmith52 Posts: 461
    The best time to get the best deal. The standard logic is when the big incentives are in place you'll get the best deal. That usually means towards the end (or after) of the model year.

    Also the end of the month many salesmen and dealerships (sometimes) will just about give cars away to meet a sales threshold so that they can earn a sales-unit volume bonus.

    My neighbor swears that the best time to buy a car is on December 31. On that day there are monthly quotas to meet and also yearly quotas. I can't verify his claim though.

    Things change all the time so what's good one month/week perhaps isn't so good the next.

    - As always, Your mileage may vary
  • gallileogallileo Posts: 51
    I have bought two cars on December 31. Neither was a particularly great deal, but I was in the dealership the whole darn day on both grinding grinding. In the end we were still barely over TMV.

    Just one sample.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,777
    I think it is always easier to get a killer deal if the car is sitting there in front of you. Negotiating on incoming units just has too many nuances.

    If they are sitting there with 3 identical units, and you are tapping your checkbook into your palm, there will be a serious urge to get your butt into a seat.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    " If they are sitting there with 3 identical units, and you are tapping your checkbook into your palm, there will be a serious urge to get your butt into a seat. "

    When I check the online inventory, they have an available date of June 17th. I'm thinking of checking their lots right after that and if I see a few identical models, do exactly that with my check book.
  • turboshadowturboshadow Posts: 349
    I just saw a documtentary by John Landis called 'Slasher.' It was about a guy who dealerships hired (at 13K for, I believe, four days) to put on a weekend sale. He became the 'Slasher,' slashing prices, they had a 99 dollar car hidden on the lot, etc., etc.

    Do they really hire guys to do this? The dealer really didn't seem all that thrilled with the results, either.

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    funny you mentioned the Slasher....There is a Toyota dealer near me who is running the slasher sale this weekend. Saw the commercial on TV this morning.
  • turboshadowturboshadow Posts: 349
    Skinny hyperactive guy with slicked back hair? Kinda stereotypical car dealer? If so, that's probably the guy. The documentary didn't make him look to good IMHO.

    IIRC, it may have been a Toyota dealership he worked for in the film....

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 142,263
    When I see these kind of sales, I usually assume that the dealership is not doing very well, or has changed management recently...

    Really... if you had a good system for selling cars, why would you bring in an outsider to do this?

    Once a dealer starts this kind of thing, I rarely will visit them... too sleazy..

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543
    Is that a GM dealer that has this car? If it is, insist that they run a printout of the vehicle build and summary and give them to you, then check the VIN and let us know here.

    If they won't (or if it's not a GM dealer) or if you can't physically verify the VIN, forget this car (even though its's a Cadillac - probably didn't have a NorthStar in it anyway)

    Terry, what is a "flat VIN"???
  • jaserbjaserb Posts: 858
    The place I bought our MPV from is now doing every lame trick in the book - impossibly low payments, tent sales, buy one car get one free, slasher sales, you name it. I don't even want to go there for service any more.
    And in the mail yesterday I got probably the most ridiculous screamer ad I've ever seen. Any used car for $77 month, free vacation with purchase, this is a special "inventory redistribution" sale (the cars were bought at auction), etc. It was a real winner. The amazing thing? It was from a brand new Mercedes-Benz dealership that's only been open for about 3 months! I'm sure someone looking at a new SL65 AMG would love the giant gorilla in the parking lot...

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    The dealer running the sale is a high volume place with a less than stellar reputation....but we all know, if it didn't work they wouldnt do it. I bet if you drive by the place on Sat the lot will be jammed with fools just waiting to get plucked.
  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543

  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543
    I like the commercials around here where they scream at you "TAKE 88 DOLLARS AND GO CRAZY AT XXXX MITSUBISHI"

    I was tempted to get 88 one dollar bills, go there and start acting crazy!
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,034
    I have read twice recently about an additional / seperate kick-back or incentive to a GM dealer when a car is sold within a 10 day period of it landing on the Dealer's Lot.

    Is this true? If so, exactly how does it work?

    - Ray
    Looking at a Grand Prix GXP that arrived on Tuesday . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,777
    saw a new one inthe Phila paper today. Prices (on the new cars) quoted in weeks! That new Corolla was only $88 (for 312 weeks). I actually had to pull out the calculator to make sure that was 6 years!

    That reminds me. I hate dealer ads that feature cars, but only prices. Too much fine print to weed through. Audi and BMW by me are the worst. They scream decentish lease prices, and bury in the fine print that they require 10% OF msrp down. Like I want to put down 4k on an A4 lease.

    But again, it must work, right? Except it's really hard to prove, unless you do a reasonably controlled study.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Guess why stores pull this stuff, hire "The Slasher" etc?

    Because this will attract a certain type of "buyer".

    Not the kind I would want to deal with I wouldn't think.
This discussion has been closed.