Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

steine13 · July 2005

"I easily forget that I am not communicating with people from the old neighborhood in referring to the owners as being of the Jewish persuasion."

I do think that's relevant... it brought to my mind a certain image of how the business would be run, and apparently a pretty accurate one.

That's a part of NYC that is very "old world", and to me, very comfortable and familiar.

I'm not Jewish, and being German, it's a touchy subject... but I do have a "Levin" and a few "Rosensprung" in my pedigree :-)
Most of us Europeans are 90% mutt anyway... works for me. Race my foot.

This is pretty far afield, but I think it brings up a good point about family-run dealerships. The big Toyota place around here is one of those, and it's a standup place if you can handle the pressure in service.

[BTW, for a good description of such a Jewish business from half a century ago, read Colin Powell's autobiography. Pretty funny how he came to learn Yiddish.]

1panky · July 2005

Thank you for the information on the Colin Powell book. I will check it out. It's a good thing not to get too ethnic these days with your comments because everyone is looking for a hidden meaning. It reminds me of the old bumper sticker that says "My boss is a Jewish carpenter." My response to this has been "You think you have problems...My boss is a Polish plumber." There I go again. I will probably be visited by the local Polish defamation delegation questioning by birth-hood. I better run. Bye!!!

grandtotal · July 2005

All else being (approximately) equal you would have got my business. You see, I'm a little different too.

sbell4 · July 2005

I appreciate that but in the real world we really only have one chance to be correct, informative and confident in our actions and answers.

If that was the worst thing that happened to me yesterday I will be just fine.

volvomax · July 2005

I think this is the future, at least in non luxury dealers.
As it gets harder and harder to make a profit on a car sale, dealers are going to scale back their compensation packages and employ these cheap drones to do the grunt work.

sbell4 · July 2005

as a member of the "cheap drone" workforce......I get what I deserve.

I write my own paycheck. Some days I do not make a penney.....some days......it is really good being in the car business.

stickguy · July 2005

you get what you pay for. If you want Walmart prices, don't expect Neiman Marcus service and attention.

Not looking to disparage the nice, helpful people at Walmart. More a comment on high end stores with personal shopping assistants, etc.

user777 · July 2005

ah, this may all be simply an artifact of the typical business mindset. in the non-business (and truely real-world), there is plenty of room for honest mistakes and a little uncertainty. it makes you and i human, and people recognize and respond to behaviors they value.

maybe if you're dealing with a killer, you should be roothlessly on game or you'll get no respect. but when your dealing with mr and mrs j. smith - you can be authentic.

you know, value fakery, respond to fakery.

i respect people when i ask a question and they respond, "you know, i'm not sure - but together we can find out". i don't go into a dealership expecting you to have one chance to be correct and all omniscient - how's my driving terry?). i go in looking for a specific car and some clear signs doing business with you will be a good experience.

robr2 · July 2005

Now I understand that Giant has been taken over by a foreign company Royal Ahold. With a name like that, you can imagine how they regard their customers.

Bob - the Royal has nothing to do with attitude. It is a designation confered upon a Dutch business by the Dutch Queen. It's a recognition for busineeses deemed important in the Netherlands.

Royal Designation

Further, Ahold is one of the largest grocery chains in the world.

basscadet · July 2005

"When there are 4 dealers within 15 miles of one another selling the exact same vehicle and the price is not fixed, why wouldn't I shop for the best deal? Why do the manufacturers franchise so many in such a small area?"

Ed, this is a great question.

When I, personally, go to purchase my own cars, that is exactly what I do.

The salesperson who introduces me to the car and takes me on a test drive is the person I give first shot at selling me the car. We'll call that Dealership A.

Let's say A won't drop down to the price I want. I will then call Dealership B and ask them if they have the same car (and this is important, you MUST compare apples to apples!) and could sell it to me for the price I want. If B agrees to sell at that price you *should* contact your salesperson at Dealership A to take a shot at matching the price before you buy from Dealership B.

At this point Dealership A has invested resources into trying to sell you a car. Yes, they didn't agree to your price up front but the least you can do is let them take a shot at matching B's price. If they won't match it, go with B. If we're talking about $100, $200, $300 difference, and you think A's salesperson was pleasant and helpful, I would go ahead and give A your business.

volvomax · July 2005

Yeah, but you don't work in a track house.

What the poster was talking about was a variation of the liner/closer store.

toyotaken · July 2005

Basscadet,

That is absolutely fair and reasonable. I think that all of the consultants who are fair and honest would think so as well. Give us a shot for the work we do, but if we're not competitive, I wouldn't expect that you do business with me. Just don't sell me down the river when the guy down the street beats my price by $50 without anything invested.

Ken

basscadet · July 2005

"I have been looking for a new vehicle for over a month, and I have gone to about 10 different auto makers, and have told the salesperson who approached me, I was playing Goldilocks for the day, and shopping for what I would like, not purchasing that day, thus they know up front, there is no sale that day. I truly do not know what I want to buy, I am out of my mini van stage, but I don't want a car.

I have had 2 salespeople actually not want to show me the vehicle, and explain features to me, so guess what, I won't buy from them. Take that Nissan and Toyota!!!! The salespeople who have been pleasant, and accomodating, even offering to let us take the vehicle home overnight, are on my list to go back to. I even just called one salesman, and told him I am still looking."

Notyou2, first of all, you have to realize that about 60% of the customers who buy cars on any given day will say things like "I'm just looking" and "I'm not ready to buy today". So telling your salesperson things like that gets you absolutely nowhere.

If you want to research cars without salespeople bugging you I strongly advise going in on a Sunday or on a weekend night, after hours. Remember, the dealership owns the lot...you're a guest. You can't march into a house that is for sale without working with a Realtor and it goes the same for a car lot.

notyou2 · July 2005

HUH? :confuse: If you want to DRIVE the car, you better be going in when they are open!!!

How can doing research on the internet let you know how the car is going to drive, where your line of vision will be in the car, if you like the way it feels on the road, if you can use the features on the car, if you like the positioning of the instrumentation, if you have blind spots when you drive the vehicle, if you have to jump up or jump out from the vehicle, and more, but, must I go on????

I said only 2 dealerships were not willing to spend the time with me, therefore, they do not get my business, but the other 8 have been great, happy to show me everything, willing to work with me. In case you missed it, I was complimenting them on that fact, not the 2 that rushed me off.....2 salespeople still call me when they get a vehicle in they think I will like, and I go and drive it.... I did not say I want to research cars without salespeople bugging me. Actually, they had better bug me (helpfully) if they want to sell me the car. But, the 2 dealers that did not want to help me, lost sales.

I am looking at high end SUV's, and you would certainly think that they would be wanting to show me everything, including the lighted mirrors (of which I am not interested in, but being a woman, it is assumed that I am concerned about mirrors and the color of the vehicle..........)

I can tell anyone for sure now, since I drove a Ford Expedition, I don't like the way it feels on the road, I have too many blind spots, and more, but, I did not learn that until I DROVE it, the internet cannot give me the feel of the vehicle. I also have qualms about the Lincoln Navigator,,now that I DROVE it, even though it looks wonderful on the internet....am I getting the point across now?

I guess maybe you read negative into my post, when you should have read the positive.
Don't look at everyone who says they are just looking at someone who is wasting your time, I bet they are trying to find something that "fits", just like I am doing. And the salesperson who has been kind to me, and just called me to tell me he has another vehicle in, that I will look at tomorrow, is really winning my business, and when I went to him the first time, I was JUST LOOKING!

As to the comment about the dealer owning the lot, well DUH??? Did I say they didn't? The more I read your post, the more I think you have me confused with someone else!

basscadet · July 2005

Hey, I'm a regular guy like everybody else. I am one of those fools who is a car nut and buys a different car every other year, so I have had my fair share of experience buying, believe me!

I had always villified car salesman as dishonest, cheating, uneducated trash. Usually wore cheap suits, wore too much cologne, and had tacky gold jewelry all over their hands.

When I first started selling cars I worked with a few of those guys, the "old timers", we called them. They are a dying breed. Most salespeople out there now are much more honest and have better taste in jewelry (or like me, wear none at all!

)

But that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point I would like to make is that once I started selling cars I was ASTOUNDED at how customers treated me. Some would treat me as if I were a convicted sex criminal: I would give a quiet, humble "hello" to them and they would look at me and just walk away. Of course, most wouldn't be rude like this, but a surprisingly large number of customers (of all ages, races) would be incredibly rude.

"But they only act rude because they had a terrible experience at another dealership!", you say? Hmm....that sounds a little shallow, don't you think? If you have a terrible waitress at a Chilis, does that give you the right to be rude to waitresses at all other restaurants later? No. So let's quit hiding behind that excuse, folks.

basscadet · July 2005

notyou2, I am not confusing you with anybody else.

I walked out of a Subaru dealership once because they would not let me test drive one of their vehicles. You have a right to be able to test drive a vehicle but only if you are serious about buying the car in the very, very near future. It sounds like you are a serious buyer, so you are correct...they should have let you drive it. From your earlier post, it sounded like you were not even sure what type of vehicle you wanted which explains my last post.

You have eliminated the Expedition and the Navigator. What SUV are you looking to purchase?

thenebean · July 2005

talk to myself? wait...hang on, im having a conversation with my evil side...

ok, back! what were we saying?

-thene :P

notyou2 · July 2005

I like the All wheel drive Pacifica, the GMC Yukon, The Chevy Tahoe, the Chevy Avalanche, and the Cadillac Escalade. They GM's all feel very comfortable, I like the mirrors that turn down to the curb when you put the vehicle in reverse, and the road feel, since I have to drive so much, is nicer than the Fords. The Fords felt like trucks, the Pacifica is just kind of nice looking, but the seats are harder than the GM'S, and I am getting older and want something cushy. There are also terrible blind spots on the Pacifica when you are backing up, so ParkSense is needed.... Gas mileage in all these sucks, but, I don't work now, I don't taxi kids around any more, and I drive for pleasure now. I was looking at Toyota Land Cruisers, but the dealer was snotty and not wanting to "show me the car", "say that like Tom Cruise" and the Nissan guy, for the Murano was also not wanting to "show me the car". So, I will be driving another Cadillac tomorrow, but the Avalanche is still calling to me, (I know, it's a truck, but my sister loves hers). I am 5 ft, my hubby is 6'2", so seats have to have memory, and more. I am picky, I don't want to buy another vehicle for about 6 years, so therefore, I am Goldilocks. See why I am looking? Any suggestions for a cushy ride?

frnkrzzo · July 2005

so....you've shopped at a total of 10 dealers, and eventually might buy 1 "luxury" suv. one lucky guy that wasted his time with you might eventually profit $100 from putting up with you. fact is, one can often make far more money on a cheaper car than a luxury suv, especially if it is a used one. usually, the economy car buyer wont take months of shopping either. doesn't sound like the potential reward is worth putting up with you. i'm going to have to agree with the nissan and toyota people who recognized this fact up front and spent their time trying to feed their families instead of humoring you. enjoy your luxury suv.

alfox · July 2005

notyou2 represents a sizeable chunk of the buying public. We don't all know what we want to buy, and car dealers hold the keys to learning. If this is "putting up" with us, then I say the dealers and sales people better get a grip on just who their customers are.

I understand her problem. Just exactly how does an undetermined buyer find out what is the right vehicle for her?

I've been an on-going supporter of the reasonable salespeople in this thread for several years, and I'm not just a curmudgeon. As I've said many times before, the sales model absolutely has to be aligned with the customer. What I'm seeing being said to this woman is that she just has to learn to mold herself to the sales people' problems. Well guess what - she has the money. It's not her problem.

notyou2 · July 2005

I hope I don't walk into your dealership, if you are a dealer. And the salesman who makes money off of me will be happy, and I will never ever know if it is only $100.00, that is his business, not mine. But, the other cars I may buy from him, the service at the dealership, and the good word of mouth I may pass on to others looking for the same vehicle will probably benefit him also, all for "wasting his time with me". Oh, and I plan on enjoying my luxury SUV, thanks.... I have saved diligently, paid off all my vehicles, and won't be getting into a contract I cannot afford, I will never be "upside down", and gosh, I like the way the cash purchase I will be able to make, no financing, will keep me in the black. Please let me know where you work, so I won't go there. :P

notyou2 · July 2005

Thanks, couldn't have said it better.

mikezoomzoom · July 2005

It's not being said that it's the customer's fault. I take responsibility for my own actions.

My original post was essentially to ask when is enough enough? My dealership is offering Mazda S-Plan pricing (by our own choice... not Mazda's) to Joe Blow consumer just to try and stimulate business,stay competitive against employee pricing, and move a little more volume. How should I react when someone still wants more? We all do what we do, yourself included, in order to achieve a positive end result. My intentions are honorable and I just want to make an honest living.

As an Internet/Fleet Manager I was frequently commented to by clients that they wanted me to make a fair profit. To me, fair is ideally priced $100-$500 over factory invoice... money which doesn't go to my pocket. It was amazing how quickly that comment was retracted once the figures started working out. Suddenly, where they wanted to be was below invoice delving into the holdback or lower. I thought they wanted me to make a fair profit. Where did "fair" go?

Maybe with the age of information we all live in it could be easier. I'd like to think that but it seems to be untrue. We still deal with the folks who think every vehicle has a mark-up of $10K, or that the dealership makes thousands of dollars even if a car is sold at invoice or below. They also have no idea what operating cost are and apparently think that the facility, inventory, personel, advertising, and everything else is just there because it is.

I understand that we've all been conditioned to seek the best case scenario for ourselves. The fact that with a small amount of invested time pertaining to research, one can find almost all the available numbers out there. Human nature dictates a paranoia that we could've done better, or we're losing... but invoice type figures are more than "fair!' If a vehicle has rebates or incentives, even better.

There seems to be little consideration when it comes to dealerships as a whole. I admit that I get frustrated from time to time... now is one of those times. It doesn't need to take five to six hours to purchase a vehicle, especially if the customer has checked information through print or web media. For the most part, the more reputable and properly trained dealerships have streamlined processes in place to maximize not only your time but theirs. At least narrow down the field of vehicles you're strongly leaning towards. Proverbial,"Help me help you!"

After everything is said and done, I'll do my thing and you'll do yours. To those that need a vehicle, my product knowledge is top notch and my assistance is pleasurable and sincere. How can I earn your business today? Realistically and within fairness.

bobst · July 2005

Do you think there may be something about your attitude that upsets the car sales people?

The last time a car salesman was obnoxious to me was in 1972. We were looking a Ford Capri and I told the salesman I thought the seat belts were uncomfortable. He went berserk and started jumping up and down while proclaiming what a wonderful car the Capri was. My wife and I were speechless.

Anyway, I find all car sales people to be very friendly and helpful. They always let us take test drives, even if we are not planning to buy a car in the immediate future. I love the whole car buying experience.

toyotaken · July 2005

Notyou2,

good for you. While it can be tedious and time consuming, there are often customers that I work with that don't have any idea of what type of vehicle they want. (mostly friends of my wife who she sends in and their friends as well *LOL*) That being said, I try to work with them to find out what their needs and wants are and what fits those best. Sometimes they're a Toyota, sometimes not. One of the nice parts about working with a deaer group with 18 different franchizes is that I can go down the street, bring a vehicle back and have them look at, sit in, and drive if they want. For some strange reason they seem to usually end up deciding they like a Toyota at the end though *S*. But seriously, I have many times said to a customer, "We really don't have something that really fits what your'e looking for. You should really consider looking at X,Y,Z." Sometimes they want me to continue working with them on that other make/model, sometimes they want a referral for someone to work with at that store, sometimes they just want to continue looking.

It all depends on what the customer wants. If they want to look at several models, that's fine. If they've already decided what they want, that's fine too. Part of being in this business and position is needing to be flexible and tailor your approach and presentation on their needs.

Just my opinion.

Ken

bobst · July 2005

Mike, in the first place, it is not easy for us car buyers to determine a fair price for a car.

For example, we bought a few Honda Accords in the 90's. On more than one occasion, I offered about $100 over invoice and my offer was refused, so we walked out of the dealer without buying the car. When we later offered about $250 over invoice, our offers were accepted.

Before we bought a new Accord in March, I figured we would have to pay the usual $250 over invoice. However, in the Edmunds Prices Paid forum, several people said they were getting Accords for about $500 under invoice. At first, I couldn't believe prices were that low, but we went to a local dealer, offered that amount, and they accepted.

My point is that I had to do a fair amount of research to determine that $500 under invoice was a decent price to pay for an Accord.

Many people don't have the time or interest to do the amount of research that I did, so they don't feel confident that they know what the right price is for a car. That is why the are wary and suspicious when they come to you to buy a car.

bobst · July 2005

One more thing, Mike.

You asked, "How should I react when someone still wants more?"

You tell them No. Anyone who has raised kids knows the answer to that one.

notyou2 · July 2005

I still don't get where I expressed any "attitude". I got "attitude" from the 2 mentioned dealers, who both happened to come running out to me, asking me what I was looking for, and when I said I did not know, I was shopping because I did not know, then told them what features I was looking for, those 2 out of the 10 became uninterested, because I was not ready to purchase THAT DAY. How can shopping for a new vehicle, being honest about not knowing what I want, be my attitude???. Apparently, 8 other salesmen did not see any problem with my "shopping", they were friendly, explained all the buttons and gadgets to me...

Oh, the Nissan guy also said it was too, dirty word, hot for him to be out there with some female who did not know what she wanted.....so, me????attitude??????? Guess he was a really successful salesman, so maybe he should have passed me on to someone else, Murano's aren't exatly cheap, and since I was looking at the window sticker of one, hmmmmm, do ya' think I may have been interested????? I am sure one of his fellow salespeople would have liked the chance to show me one....instead of leaving me standing in a hot car lot, (over 97 degrees) and not selling me a vehicle.... :confuse:

notyou2 · July 2005

I can honestly tell the salesmen that have approached me, I don't want a car..... That is the best lead in I can think of for an SUV, or other vehicle.....

toyotaken · July 2005

*ROFL* True! Very True!

Ken

mikezoomzoom · July 2005

Unfortunately, when "no" is said that pretty much takes car of the possibility to earn their business. I believe this might have to do with the time invested on my part only to have no end result. Pride is a contributing factor in this. I say no and, more times than not, they go to the next dealership. The next dealership hits them with the same dose of reality and they're more willing to agree in order to save face. I don't get the,"You know... you really weren't trying to rip me off" phone call that often.

As far as the raising children comment is concerned, I'll be joining those ranks for the first time within the next few weeks. Maybe that's why I'm so frustrated right now... but I doubt it.

jimstrenk · July 2005

After spending an afternoon or two here at edmunds.com, I'm starting to wonder if we consumers are working on a level playing field.

Are all dealers charged the same invoice price for a particular vehicle, or do manufactures sell their cars to dealers on a case by case or showroom by showroom basis? :confuse:

I've always assumed that each dealer pays the same amount for a particular unit and that the best deal is the one where a particular dealer is willing to lower their profit on a particular unit.

Also, is an invoice shown to the customer the "real" invoice and invoice price, or are invoices shown to potential buyers something the dealer makes up? :confuse:

Thank you in advance for any light that can be shed on these particular subjects!

toyotaken · July 2005

It's actually good for you to ask this question as it does come up often. First, for the most part, with most manufacturers, for the same vehicle, equiped the same way they pay the same amount. There are some manufacturers that give dealers volume bonuses, but they're not guaranteed and certainly not with every manufacturer.

So answering your question, for the most part, it is basically whoever is willing to lower their profit(or loss) the most.

Second, unless you're working with a very disreputable dealer, if they show you an invoice, it is probably the real macoy. Each manufacturer's invoices look different, but they all should look the same within the same manufacturer. With the information available now, it's not even worth the effort to bother "making up" an invoice.

Hope this helps.

Ken

mikezoomzoom · July 2005

Technically, invoices are the same for each dealer depending on a few different factors. Manufacturers will sometimes separate the nation by districts or regions. It is a small variable, if any, for the difference in marketing costs. However, programs, rebates, and incentives are also based on geography or where an aged inventory might be piling up.

Essentially, most dealerships are working through consignment from the manufacturers. Sell a vehicle and you eventually receive the holdback due on that unit. Advertising co-op cost are also a cost factor... again minimal.

These under invoice deals are usually with the help of manufacturers support through dealer incentives. We don't have to disclose them, if available, but it helps us sell you your new car without losing any more than we should. THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERY CAR HAS SOME SORT OF HIDDEN PROFIT FOR THE DEALER. These dealer incentives help us clear out older, or slow moving, inventory in order to stimulate business.

If shown an invoice... you can bet a $10,000 fine it's the real deal, or a copy. This tactic of fake invoices has been long gone due to government watchdogs and consumer groups. Definitely for the betterment of cleaning up the car business and its image over the last twenty to thirty years.

chrisbgood · July 2005

I admit as a buyer I'm unsure of the system.. I've had offers that were more than 1k below invoice (before rebate) accepted. How can I trust the invoice price? How can anyone?

I understand what your saying about dealer cost. I really think most salesmen are decent (I've had an oily one or two I must admit). I cannot tell you what the cost of the car is. Since the car manufacturer may discount it tommorrow I don't think a dealer can know the true cost either.

When the deal is real easy I do wonder for a moment how much money I left on the table -- but that's about it.

stanley2 · July 2005

Reading this forum is great. I love the advent of the information age and what it has done to auto dealers. Read on and enjoy dealers! You created the kind of consumer and buyer I am.

I am the consumer you now need to deal with. I remember how you treated my parents and the horror stories I heard as a kid when they tried to buy vehicles for our family and how dealers jerked them around. Remember? Before carfax the stories of clocked cars, salvage history vehicles being sold as OK and keeping peoples' keys so they would not leave the dealership. Remember all that crap? Well, I do and I am a grown up consumer now...and you have to deal with me! I am a 37 years old married business owner. I make $250k a year. My net worth is about $1.2M and other than my (modest) mortgage we have no debt. We live well under our means. When it comes to buying a vehicles now I shop for a 1-2 year old car and always try to buy from a private party. That is the very best value, even considering the give away deals with new cars. Buying this way always saves you the heavy 1st-2nd year depreciation and you can buy from the original owner. Go and talk to then and see how they live...this will tell you a lot about how they took care of the car.

Second best way it to go to an auction. Either a local repo auction or get a friend that is a dealer and pay him a few hundred bucks to locate and buy you a car. This is how most of the dealers get their vehicles anyway; you might as well be bidding against them. Buy something this new and it is still under warranty anyway...so there is no worry. If it is not in the shape I though, I sell it and make some money. Ohh, and we have 5 vehicles so there is no hurry to buy your car or truck!

Dealing with auto dealers is an absolute nightmare. They are not pleasant to deal with. They are control freaks that feel the need to TRY and control customers as soon as they hit the lot. Their managers tell them this is the way to sell cars. How hilarious! My wife and I recently decided to buy a new vehicle. We looked at some mini vans and SUVs. I qualify for a schedule 179 deduction and can write most of a 6000lb+ SUV off in the first year. She liked a minivan. We were looking at a Toyota Sequoia and I explained to the salesman what the dilemma was and the salesman told me that I need to buy my wife what she wanted (in front of my wife). I promptly told him to pack sand and told him that we would not be buying a vehicle from his dealership. We left and have not been back. You guys think you will control the customer? How very wrong you are. Wake up fellas!

It looks like we are now going to buy an Armada from Carmax. Carmax obviously gives us the best price. They sell so many new Nissans no one can compete with their price. It is funny, we stopped and talked to the local small hillbilly local dealer and of course they claim they can match or beat the price. They are very good at lying. We visited one and they hit us $3k over carmax. I love carmax. A nice big public money dealer group. The profits go to the shareholders, and not some local yocal idiot dealer principal whos father was lucky enough to be given a Nissand or Toyota dealership 35 years ago! If we buy a new vehicle we will buy it from Carmax. We will give them perfect CSI scores too. Anything to push that local dealer out of the fold. Every little push like this will do nothing but help every consumer!! The big family runs groups are nothing but crooks! Locally they are Koons, DarCars, Antwerpen, Ourisman, etc. What a joke.

Dealers, it is time for you folks to wake up. The killer consumer is here and they are armed with information. Boards like these will only empower people and you guys are fighting a loosing battle. Consumers are so much better educated than they were 20 years ago and now they are properly equipped with the information to battle you clowns! Enjoy it, because this is going to change the auto industry for the better. Just watch...it is happening as I type this message. Hear that low frequency rumble?? It is not a distant earthquake...it is people waking up! LOL!!!

The big three are selling vehicles at employee prices now. All the others are following. People are buying lost of new vehicles and now they will be conditioned to demand under invoice and into holdback deals!

Welcome to 2005 guys! It is only going to get worse. LOLOL!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!

user777 · July 2005

stanley2, you wrote:

I qualify for a schedule 179 deduction and can write most of a 6000lb+ SUV off in the first year. She liked a minivan. We were looking at a Toyota Sequoia and I explained to the salesman what the dilemma was and the salesman told me that I need to buy my wife what she wanted (in front of my wife). I promptly told him to pack sand and told him that we would not be buying a vehicle from his dealership. We left and have not been back. You guys think you will control the customer? How very wrong you are. Wake up fellas!

seems your wife wants a minivan...

volvodan1 · July 2005

Well, at least you're not bitter.

jimstrenk · July 2005

Thank you tototaken (Ken) and mikezoomzoom for your replies. Both of your replies were helpful in determining what dealers must pay for vehicles on the showroom floor. I've always been leery about dealer invoices. I always thought that dealer invoices were something not to be trusted.

The last new car I purchased was a 1979 Renault Le Car. I guess things have changed in the automotive industry since then!

Again, thanks to the both of you for your comments. They are appreciated!

basscadet · July 2005

Stanley,

It sounds like you have lots of personal issues to work out. I hope you have a better attitude with your Carmax salesperson than what you display here.

basscadet · July 2005

Don't expect top-quality service from the dealerships that sell at or below invoice.

Good personal service requires good help, good people. Those people cost money.

If you want a dealership with professional, courteous staff to take care of your needs before the purchase and AFTER the purchase, you're going to have to be willing to pay a little more.

basscadet · July 2005

notyou2,

I am curious...if you do not have kids to haul around then why on Earth are you looking at SUVs? Gasoline prices are only going to go up. The market on SUV's is becoming increasingly soft. I agree that the Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade all ride very nice and are much nicer than the Fords but you have to understand that with those trucks in particular...as soon as you drive them off the lot they lose a lot of their value. GMC/Chevy trucks have truly awful resale value. We regularly appraise Yukon Denalis that were over $40,000 new. We have people bring in their '04 Yukon Denalis (loaded with leather, sunroof, DVD, etc) and we offer them around $26,000 for them, and that is only when they are in tip-top shape. These vehicles are becoming very passe.

If you absolutely have to have a SUV, I highly recommend looking at the Toyota Highlander or Nissan Murano. These will hold their value, are built off of car platforms rather than truck platforms, get better gas mileage, and are frankly more what you need. There are Lexus and Infiniti equivalents of both of these cars if you require a little more luxury.

I know I will get flack for this, but I think it is a little irresponsible to buy such a huge vehicle as a Yukon for just "pleasure" driving.

rroyce10 · July 2005

. ... ** I make $250k a year. My net worth is about $1.2M and other than my (modest) mortgage we have no debt ** ...

You can lose the attitude at anytime .. I've been in this business for going on 22 years and one of the things I have learned is: "those who brag usually have nothing" - so you must be a Carmax salesman ....

Dealers have never had a problem with informed buyers, it makes their job 100% easier .......

Terry.

mikefm58 · July 2005

" If you absolutely have to have a SUV, I highly recommend looking at the Toyota Highlander or Nissan Murano. These will hold their value, are built off of car platforms rather than truck platforms, get better gas mileage, and are frankly more what you need "

Good recommendation. I picked up an '04 Highlander last year for low $20's and get 22 MPG.

mikefm58 · July 2005

" Don't expect top-quality service from the dealerships that sell at or below invoice.

Good personal service requires good help, good people. Those people cost money.

If you want a dealership with professional, courteous staff to take care of your needs before the purchase and AFTER the purchase, you're going to have to be willing to pay a little more. "

My experience has been that the sales and service shops within the dealership are totally independent. Whether I get my vehicle from them dirt cheap or pay a premium hasn't affected service.

mikefm58 · July 2005

"
"those who brag usually have nothing" - so you must be a Carmax salesman ....

"

ROTFLMAO.........perfect.

mikefm58 · July 2005

My experience at Carmax is that the vehicles are waaaaaay over priced compared to what I could pick up a comparable one from autotrader or even another dealer.

notyou2 · July 2005

Hi,

Those are the 2 dealers that were snotty to me, and did not want to "show me the cars". I also have to travel a long way to those dealers, (over 30 miles one way), for service if needed, and I kinda' figured if I was a bother for the salesperson to show me the vehicle, I may be a real bother for the service department.

The closest GM dealer to me is 5 miles, the farthest is 8 miles, so, for convenience sake, GM was better. I have found that anything you hold on to, loses value, my current vehicles are '96, '96, and '99. All cost in the mid to upper 20's when purchased new, and all about 3-4 K now. So, everything depreciates, no matter what you buy.

I also need lots of room, because of my hobby, and the Highlander and Murano are a little small for the equipment I carry, I need more room. Not that I ever got to really see them, but I did order the brochures, and from the measurments on the websites and in the books, the cargo volume is not big enough to accomodate me, and carry 3 more people in those vehicles. Just because I don't haul kids around anymore, doesn't mean I don't need the room of my minivan. The Pacifica I was looking at was also small for my needs, but I just think it looks great.....but I haven't purchased it.

So, I guess until the auto makers contact me to design a vehicle for my purpose, I will need the larger vehicle. In the not so distant past, I was limitied to mini vans, and before then, pickup trucks, so, it is nice to have the options of the SUV now.

I just got back from England, and I will never ever complain about gas prices here, until they reach what we were paying over there for gas.....A US gallon is 3.785 litres, and we were paying 98 pence per llitre, which after conversion, is about $6.95 per US gallon. It is all perspective, no matter what, you pay. (and pay, and pay)

butchbr73 · July 2005

.... ever look at the Acura MDX or Honda Pilot? little bigger than the Highlander/Murano size.....

notyou2 · July 2005

What is Carmax?

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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