Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

1293294296298299315

Comments

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Sounds like the guy is alot more trouble than he is worth as a customer...fire him. Give him the address to the nearest Rover dealer and move on. I'm sure he will enjoy driving to Guilford to get it serviced. ;)
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Bobst,

    You're damn skippy lenders do us favors. I don't send a lot of contracts to Chase... but when I do they are $100-300,000 contracts and our customers generally have spotless credit and when they do finance they put big money down so the lender has massive equity. They maybe get 4-5 from us a month, but they know that they get ALL of our good paper. So when I get someone once in a while who is a tad marginal, I can usually get my guy there to hook me up. Also, due to the way our customers tend to be, we often get people with seemingly weak beacon scores but with outstanding credit. So the guy who is a "650" will get "740+" rates.

    It's called having a relationship with the lender, it works very well for us.

    On a side note...

    Hey Rich!
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    I think Indy's Deal sounds straight and on the up and up. First of all I don't think her credit is as bad as she thinks it is if they did not ask for stips. And she is financed with GMAC not even the sub-prime department.

    But regardless, her credit is not perfect and she is going to have a higher rate anywhere she goes, so "unwinding" the deal on a car she is happy with to go through the whole ordeal again makes no sense.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I didn't realize GMAC bought her, she might not be as bad as she thinks.

    Indy, any idea what your beacon score was?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... It seems like you been out of the business longer than I thought .... GMAC has been buying C&D paper for quite some time now .. thats 540 and up ..



    Terry.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Sounds like the guy is alot more trouble than he is worth as a customer...fire him. Give him the address to the nearest Rover dealer and move on.

    I agree with audia8q... If this guy is constantly a problem, then the service department should just turn him away. It's generally not great business practice to do as such, but with a guy like that, it might not be worth everyone's trouble.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... Every dealership has at least 2 or 3 of these clowns, it's kinda like the flea's that come with the dog ... and "usually" it's the guy that paid $123.08 over cost for the vehicle ..l.o.l....

    Terry.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    I'd imagine that customers of higher-end/luxury brands are far more difficult than the average customer. I'd end up killing one of them probably.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    I've already mentioned my situation earlier, but I'll rehash it briefly as it does relate to the topic at hand.

    I've had credit issues and my credit score is currently in the low 600's. Every dealer that would finance me was quoting me at least 19% interest. I was at the point where I thought I'd have to accept that and either choose a cheaper car or just deal with larger payments than expected.

    I finally started working with a Mazda dealer out of state because I'd located the exact car I wanted on his lot. He gave me a very good deal then we started looking for financing. He came back with an 11.9% interest rate. He told me his finance manager had a person at a certain lender than he worked with a lot. They send tons of business to this lender and his contact there gave me a lower rate than my credit score deserved as a favor due to my income and job stability. Under regular circumstances, he wouldn't have normally done that. I actually had the chance to talk to the guy after the fact and thank him.

    I'm sure a lot of dealers lie to their customers and claim that they're calling in favors, etc. But the truth is there are some that can and will do favors for their customers. Lenders take care of the folks who send them the most business.

    The end result- the dealer sold a car, the lender will make a great deal of interest at 11.9%, I save about $90 a month on payments and I will return the same dealer if I decide to buy another Mazda.

    Just thought I'd share.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... No mystery there .. just like mortgages -- the bigger the store, the more horsepower they have with the lenders ...

    That said, you didn't need to go to 10 or 12 different stores in less than a month to get an approval ... if you would have let someone work with you, you'd probably had the deal done in the first 3/4 days with a better rate .. but that was then and this is now.



    Terry ;)
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    I don't want to drive the car for a month only to have to return it, not to mention the possibility of losing my trade, too. Can I hold off on taking possession until I get my loan confirmation?

    Can someone please answer the above question for me? Wouldn't it save both me and the dealer time and money to just wait until the financing is definite? They already have a signed contract. I've got the trade and my down pmt. still. Is this a reasonable request to make of the dealer, or do I need to just pick up the car and deliver my trade and down payment and hope for the best?
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    .... GMAC has been buying C&D paper for quite some time now .. thats 540 and up

    C&D?
    Crash and Dent?
    Chip and Dip?
    What?
    Inquiring minds want to know...

    Oh, and happy New Year, everyone!
    (hic)

    -Mathias
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    I guess the answer to your question has be skirted.. The best thing to do is just ask the dealer exactly what you are asking us. He's the one doing the deal and certain procedures that he must follow.

    We can give you all the advice in the world but your dealer might have a different avenue. Just ask'em!

    What you are describing happened to my cousin. She was, apparently "spotted", and drove a new Pathfinder for about a month and then got her Mustang convertible back (thank goodness it didn't sell yet).

    She ended up later getting the Pathfinder and now drives a Subaru Forester. Anyway, I think you have a right to be concerned and should get your questions answered by your sales person.

    Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    That said, you didn't need to go to 10 or 12 different stores in less than a month to get an approval ... if you would have let someone work with you, you'd probably had the deal done in the first 3/4 days with a better rate .. but that was then and this is now.

    What do you mean let someone work with me? None of the other dealers were interested in offering something better. When I balked at 19%, they just let me walk. One finance manager even told me that "people who don't pay their bills don't get good interest rates". I can't repeat here what I said to him.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    .... GMAC has been buying C&D paper for quite some time now .. thats 540 and up

    C&D?


    I'll guess:

    A - excellent credit
    B - good credit
    C - bad credit
    D - poor credit
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... The boys got it ..... Happy New Year everyone ....

    Terry.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Indy, the answer to your question is NO. ABSOLUTELY NO!!!

    You can't expect the dealer to hold onto your trade until your loan has been approved.

    You asked, "do I need to just pick up the car and deliver my trade and down payment and hope for the best?"

    The answer is again NO!!! You can arrange financing thru a bank or credit union before you go to the dealer.
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    Thanks, all, for your help. I've decided to tell the dealer that I need to have the lender fax me proof of approval before I will close on the deal. This seems fair to me. If the dealer balks at this I will just take my business elsewhere.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    I think that's the best possible way you can handle it. Stick to your guns and get that approval in writing!

    Congrats! What kind of car are you getting?
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    A car carries was driving through my town yesterday. Full of nice cars (2 BMW's, merd, 2 lexusesm and some other cars). The thing that surprised me is that all of the cars had licence plates on them. I would expect anything involving a dealer to have plateless cars. I guess it is possble the cars were being transported for individuals; however the direction of the transportation is not consistent with traveling down to florida. FYI, it was on Route 123 in Vienna, VA heading towards Tysons Corner, VA.

    I was wondering if I should have been suspecious, or if this is a standard operating procedure.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    It's SOP. People get transferred and their cars get transported every day. There is a transport company in my town and their carriers are full of plated vehicles from all over the country.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... Pretty standard stuff .... multiple drops in different area's ..

    Terry.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    FWIW, you'll never see brand-new BMWs from the factory on a truck.... because the trucks are completely covered. No exposure to the elements. :)
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    Thanks. The only thing that bothered me about it was that they had tags on the cars. So I know it was not dealer to dealer.

    Happy new year.
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for the encouragement! The car is a '05 Malibu Maxx.

    Do you know how long it typically takes a lender to approve/deny a borrower who is subprime? Assuming all goes well, how soon should I expect to be able to close on the deal?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... It depends on your credit, your history, how many "hinky" things there are, employment, income, your FICO score, what type of vehicle, how much $$ you're putting down and "if" any stips are needed .... worse case scenario: 4-5 business days.



    Terry.
  • wrascalwrascal Member Posts: 25
    I see that every day.

    There are several auto auction sites nearby, and it receives transports daily. Once sold, these cars are again loaded up for delivery to their new homes/in these cases back to dealers, not individuals. They frequently have tags from all over the east coast.

    Hopefully, none of them will be flooded cars coming out of New Orleans.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Bill....send me your email & new numbers
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Exactly right. This was the same guy that a couple of weeks before was trying to work me and my center manager for a deal on a new range rover sport. Going on and on how is such a loyal customer and we should cut him a deal for all his repeat business.

    He is bought exactly one car from us ever and as far as I know has never refered anyone to us at all. His only repeat business is to come in every week complaining about something.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Terry,

    I haven't dealt with GMAC in, umm, I dunno... years and years. I got lazy dealing with Chase and Bentley financial I guess.. haha :P
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    If you have already signed a contract, and you were approved on a rate, I would take possesion of the car. It seems to me that your credit is not as bad as you think, since you are financing through GMAC and not Nuvell. (Nuvell is the sub-prime lender for GMAC) If they did not ask for any stips, I would take the car once you get the replacement title for your trade. Enjoy your new car everything this is fine!!!

    :)
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Get a replacement title for the trade and you'll invalidate the original title.

    This is not a good idea.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Did you get to see your credit report and get an explanation from the dealer? If not, then ask to do that. They may not want to, since you probably think your credit is worse than it is.... that's working in their favor.

    Ask for your credit information, since it is yours, after all. In addition to the numerical score, also look at the details of your current and past lenders/creditors and your history with them. The dealer might try to make some excuses for why you can't see it (partnership with the credit bureau, cost, dealership policy, blahblahblah), but don't let that stop you. Check it out for yourself.
  • blckthreeblckthree Member Posts: 153
    I have seen the word "pac" several times. What is PAC? Is it only a Toyota thing?

    Sounds like a moneymaker for the dealer.

    Mike :)
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah a money maker for the dealer and a commission killer for the salesman.

    A pac is the amount of money taken out of the gross of a deal before the salesman gets paid.

    So for example if you sell a car with 2500 dollars worth of gross and there is a 500 dollar pac then really you only have 2000 dollars of gross. Then you subtract the detailing fee of 90-150 dollars and if it was a used car any safety related items and you get paid on the difference. So that 2500 dollars might really turn into a 1000 dollars at the end of it all and the salesman gets a percentage of that.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    If you are familiar with payroll or compensation packages at a large company you probably know that if you 'make' say $100000 a year your actual cost to the company is about $130000 a year!!

    The company has to pay FICA, probably the bulk of health, disability, matching 401k, Christmas bonus', parties, etc.
    This all comes from??? The profit on each sale times the total number of sales. The pac covers the 'above paycheck' cost of the employee. Every company in every business has the same procedure its just never spoken of and not many are aware of it.
  • cartalkcartalk Member Posts: 147
    They are absolutely in Arizona.

    In fact, volvomax, I know all UAG dealerships in Arizona, including Volvo North Scottsdale require buyers to sign them. The agreement is between the buyer and the dealership, not the manufacturer.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    occur frequently.

    There were several posts a few weeks back about adjusting errors. There was some surprise that this occured in the client's favor and several of us replied that it is more frequent than you might expect.

    Today a 3rd time repeat customer came in to finalize his paperwork on a Matrix we discussed on 12-31. We agreed on the price @$336.28 for a 48 mo lease including GAP and aftermarket sunroof. We made an oops due to the NYE rush to go home and the F&I office found that the payment should have been $319 x 48L. He came out beaming. I guess that we'll probably get a 100% on his CSI survey ( I know we will even if we didnt find the error).
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    PAC stands for Post Acquisition Cost.

    I call it Profit Added Cost.

    I think 99% of dealers have PACs.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • jbp20jbp20 Member Posts: 7
    How do dealers price used cars? I am in the market and came up with my offers based on trade-in value plus some profit ($500??) and some work done to the car ($250??)

    I used KBB's Trade in "Good" value even though I believe the car is much closer to excellent. That was about $18K. I added 500 profit. 2000 Tax, tag and title, and got 20500. He accepted, after a while.

    Is this a good procedure, or am I way off?
    And does this sound OK on a 05 Accord EX-L V6, 18.5K miles, loaded?
    Thanks.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    on that accord, i posted an answer here:
    qbrozen, "Best new or used vehicle for $30,000" #15, 5 Jan 2006 7:25 am

    By the way, taking trade-in and adding $500 "profit" isn't exactly a good way to go. Primarily because it cost the dealer the transport the car and get it ready for the lot (detail, maybe new brakes, maybe new tires, etc). So that $500 you added basically paid for those things. That means $0 "profit."

    Not to mention KBB is almost never right in its numbers.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    We don't require such an agreement.
    The only enforceable arbitration is lemon law.
    That is between the buyer and the motor company. Dealer has nothing to do with it.
    I know of plenty of cases in AZ between dealers and consumers where no arbitration was attempted, they went straight to court.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Well, no used car dealer worth his salt is going to take a $500 profit on a nice car.
    $250 would just pay for the detail and inspection at most stores. If you are buying a certified car the shop bill is usually closer to $1000. The you have the dent guy, the interior guy, the paint guy, some spare keys, it adds up pretty quickly.
    We average @ $1500 per Volvo for a certified car, and that is before the warranty.
  • cartalkcartalk Member Posts: 147
    Well I only know about the UAG dealerships (Volvo North Scottsdale being the Volvo dealer). That would lead me to believe you are at either at Powell or Broadway. And if I had to guess, I'd say you are the Fleet Manager at Powell.
  • blckthreeblckthree Member Posts: 153
    Thank you for the answer. I had never heard the term and wondered what it was. I can see how the salesman loses money by it, but somewhere, the fica, 401k, etc has to be paid for.

    I have lurked here for years, posted a few times, you guys have lots of informative things to provide to us buyers, along with a few good stories now and then.

    Mike
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I doubt they will take a $500 deal unless it was an aged unit. I know that if I had a fresh Accord on the lot I would not take a $500 deal unless it was a highly unusual circumstance. The big difference between new and used is that, truthfully, delaers actually make money on used cars. Figure that a $1,500 deal is on the cheap side.. many stores I know average about $3,000 per car, in fact, I know of one Volvo store that's at $2,800 a copy on used and they are usually far cheaper than their competitors.

    Now, where I work $10,000-20,000 is usually where we're at but then I am in a different world.
  • jbp20jbp20 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for the info.
    One last question. Does anyone know the laws/rules of taking a car back. I would assume you cannot unless it is a complete Lemon, is there any other way? And how does that work. Thanks again.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I think the only reason the dealer accepted the offer is because KBB is normaly very high for their trade in values so probably the dealer paid thousands less for the trade then KBB says if it was a trade. If it was an auction buy or lease return it is probably only a little bit off. Another thing to think about is vehicles that are certified pre-owned cars have a mandatory cost from the manufacturer that needs to be added.

    All of our certfied preowned cars have a certification cost that ranges between 1200 and 2000 dollars depending on the vehicle and that is taken out of the profit of the car. I had this same argument with a customer who had a vehicle for trade that was almost identical to one we were selling.

    He was upset because in his mind we would turn around and sell his car and make 5000 dollars. So after we certify the car we have about 3500 dollars of profit then we know his car needs brakes since we recomended them the last time he had it in so another 700 or so dollars off. Now we are at 2800 dollars. That does not give us much room to negotiate and then there is still detail and other cosmetic reconditiong costs to consider which would probably be 500-750 dollars.
  • jbp20jbp20 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for the info.
    I just had a competing dealer pull a Carfax (they wanted to hopefully find something wrong so I would go there instead).
    One owner. No damage noted. Sold at the auction.
    Could the auction be the reason it is so low??
    And is the carfax report, and 18K in Honda Warranty enough to feel confident in a purchase like this?
    Thanks so much.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ehh auction cars usually cost more then tradeins but like I said KBB is usually thousands of dollars high on their trade in values so that is why he accepted your offer of KBB trade in value +500 dollars.

    For example the customer I was talking about in my previous post we gave him 19,500 for his truck but KBB said it was worth 25,000. 19,500 is the real value at auction and in fact edmunds trade in value was lower at 19,100.
This discussion has been closed.