Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

hansienna · January 2006

I was told by a reliable salesman at Doug Smith Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge that sales tax is paid on only the difference between trade in value and price of the new vehicle. The sales tax varies slightly depending on the county of purchase.
With a lease, the sales tax is paid each month with the payment on the amount of the payment.
Utah became more greedy and now charges sales tax on dealer documentary fee. It is printed on the UADA form 1088 "Motor Vehicle Contract of Sale".
Be very careful when you read the paperwork.

Kirstie_H · January 2006

Erm... yeah. Hammer firmly pounded.

british_rover · January 2006

We were waiting. :shades:

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

I always get in the tail end of these discussions.....

Really as you can see with all the confusion and differences of opinion I would just refinance through Nissan and be done with it. To bring up something nobody has mention is Intrest rate of the re-finance. Some banks with give a special rate if you finance the residual much better than what prime is now.

As for your presumptous scenario, If the dealer is going to sell your car or certify it be sold, most dealers need to have 2500 at the minimum margin before those expenses can be incurred. For example, just the certificate, not the certification process for Audi is $900-$1500 depending on the car.

As for doing the in-and-out regardless of what state and what tax laws are. Dealers are really WIIFM. (whats in it for me) They are not going to do do an in and out to help you get a tax break.

Bottom line turn the car in and lease a new one. You are causing way to much headache to save or make a grand. :P

sashajo · January 2006

Nope - not for a high cost car, either. I'm interested in the new Pontiac Solstice and two different dealers (not owned by the same parent organizations) said that no one is allowed to test drive the car. I suggested to both that they prequalify me. No dice. I make very good money and have very little debt. Heck - I could drop $25K on the desk and walk out with the title. Nada. Any dealer out there able to answer on this? We're not talking a car that costs $200K. :mad: Thanks!

bdr127 · January 2006

They've probably had a ton of "strokers" come in for a job ride.... Not to say that is your intent, and also not to say that their policy is justified; but I think that, at least, is their reasoning.

sashajo · January 2006

I don't doubt it. Here's part of the email between me and the dealer...
...The Solstice is a special production vehicle and due to its limited production we are not allowing the vehicles to be test driven. If you like you are more than welcome to stop by and take a look at one and or purchase it....

audia8q · January 2006

How goofy....It's a Pontiac not a Bentley. LOL
I ran a Porsche store for a number of years and we had our share of strokes... we didn't get all high and mighty about test drives. In the long run this will hurt GM...many folks will be considering a Pontiac for the first time and will get turned off by the big attitude...A quality dealer can weed out the joy riders in a hurry and give legit customers a ride.

kyfdx · January 2006

No doubt.. even the Porsche dealers will let you test drive a Boxster.. even if you aren't sure you are in the market...

Heck.. test drives when I'm not really shopping for a car is what hooks me every time...

sashajo · January 2006

Thank goodness someone has validated the fact that this is absurd.

1racefan · January 2006

I bet the Mazda dealer would have no problem letting you take a Miata out. Although, I am sure some bozo will "have to have" the Solstice and will buy it with no test drive.

mirth · January 2006

I does not surprise me at all that the dealers aren't allowing test drives for the Solstice. This year they should be able to sell every one they get and will have waiting lists - why mile up a car with test drives when you'll have no trouble selling it without one? Maybe, possibly you'll be able to find some Pontiac dealer with a demo, but I doubt it. Give it a year for the smoke to settle and the "gotta have it" people to get theirs, and things will go back to normal. But there's no percentage in getting huffy about it - it's currently a hot car and that's the way it is.

stickguy · January 2006

the S2000 was like this at first too. usually what happens is you make the deal, contingent on a test drive. That way, they know you are serious (since not too many people will go through the whole purchase process, short of signing the final paperwork, just for a test drive).

If you really hate it at that point, then they shred the papers and you walk out the door.

If nothing else, it will keep them from getting sued for discrimination!

british_rover · January 2006

We don't even do that with the Range Rover sports and they are just as hot and 3 times as expensive. If we happen to have a unsold SC Range Rover or Range Rover sport then you can test drive that too but those are generally wait list special order cars.

isellhondas · January 2006

We try to weed out the strokes and joyriders with S-2000's but some of these wannabees can be very creative and convincing that they are serious.

And, if they get stupid while driving one they can get in trouble fast!

hansienna · January 2006

I agree with the dealer and I will NOT drive any new vehicle unless I am ready for a new vehicle and the vehicle in question is one of the 2 or 3 "finalists" in my selection process.
I do NOT want anyone test driving any new vehicle I would buy.

landdriver · January 2006

Have a Highlander and when the engine was upgraded from a 3.0L to 3.3L in the '04 model year wanted to test drive it just to see how much more powerful it was. Went to the dealer on a Wednesday evening when they wouldn't be busy and asked for a test drive. While walking to the vehicle, in response to his inquiry, I informed the salesman that quite honestly I actually already have a Highlander and am interested in test driving just to see how much more power the 3.3L has. He abruptly stopped in his tracks, thought about it for a second, and then continued walking again. I guess he appreciated my honesty.

isellhondas · January 2006

He wasn't happy. I'm sure you were curious but you have to understand, you basically wasted the time of a person who works on straight commission.

I'm glad he was a professional about it and maybe you will remember him when you are a serious shopper at a later date.

You must have a lot of extra time on your hands.

black_tulip · January 2006

why mile up a car with test drives when you'll have no trouble selling it without one?

Because it builds goodwill and very possibly may generate future customers for GM products. If I am an import driver and am mildly interested in the Solastice, I may become a GM customer for life if I can test drive and buy one. On the other hand, if I get that "no test drive" attitude, I will probably never set foot in a Pontiac dealership again.

Wouldn't GM do anything these days to get new customers? The dealers should understand that and act as partnerships that they are.

steine13 · January 2006

[..] you basically wasted the time of a person who works on straight commission.

Well, he went at a dead time, so there probably wasn't a "real" buyer at hand.

Waste of time my foot.
I'm not in sales, but this one strikes me as a doozy:
"Oh you have a Highlander? How do you like it?"
Then "May I ask where you bought it?"

And if it was bought somewhere else, there is a great opportunity for pointing out the wonderful service at this here facility, and certainly you will be happy to show him the new model with the bigger engine... Who says he doesn't really like it and will buy one?

Have you heard of impulse buying? Or is that something that doesn't happen in your neck of the woods, like odometer tampering or sub-standard CPO vehicles?

As far as that "You must have a lot of extra time on your hands" remark, that strikes me as a cheap shot. It's $20-30k of somebody's money, what's wrong with taking a lively interest in it?

I have "thought about" buying a Legacy for the past 8 years or so, and the dealership is 3 blocks from my house. I have never taken a test drive yet because I'm not serious and I know it. I am respectful of salespeople and of their time.

But I'd say to go check something out with an interest towards future purchase is absolutely legit... a current HL owner is 1/2way there to buying another one, as far as I am concerned.

-Mathias

landdriver · January 2006

Actually should have mentioned the "salesman" was really the salesmanager, so he was more experienced in dealing with customers (the salesmanager's salesman was nowhere to be found when I went inside to ask for the test drive).

Also now that I think about it it happened a little differently. After the salesmanager inquired, I told him I already had a Highlander. That's when he stopped in his tracks. When I continued to tell him that to be entirely honest I wanted to test drive it to see how much more power the 3.3L had, that's when he thought about it for a split second and started walking again with the same enthusiasm in his cadence as before. I don't think he was as miffed as my earlier post implied.

Like steine13 I am also very courteous and respectful of the salesman's time! (I also just drove it around the block so as not to rack up too many miles.)

imidazol97 · January 2006

The one thing I miss in the description is the statement, "I bought my Highlander here from salesman so-and-so." Then it would have been reasonable to go back to drive to compare the models.

Maybe repeat buyers from another dealership would be someone to treat well for that next purchase like the previous poster was saying. But I would have gone back to where I bought the one I already have.

isellhondas · January 2006

In a perfect world, your post would make perfect sense.

1/2 way there? Hardly!

I used to respect your opinions.

qbrozen · January 2006

a current HL owner is 1/2way there to buying another one

I don't know about you, but, out of EVERYBODY I know, I only know one person who has ever bought the same model vehicle twice (actually, in his case, about 4 times). Heck, in my case, I don't think I've even had the same manufacturer twice. So, at least in my experience and knowledge, "1/2 way there" isn't even in the ballpark.

kyfdx · January 2006

One specific data point...

My uncle bought an '04 Highlander Limited in August of '04... Just traded it in on a Highlander Hybrid a couple of weeks ago.. Didn't need it.. just wanted it..

My wife leased three straight Honda Accords.. '97, '99 and '01.. The '97 and '99 were both traded in after 24 months, before the lease term was up..

In my experience (not even including these examples), if someone is in the dealership with the same make of car... that is a live lead..

regards,
kyfdx
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zodiac2004 · January 2006

1/2 way there? Hardly!

C'mon Craig.
You know Mathias is right.
Brand loyalty accounts for 80% or so of car sales and you know it.
If someone buys a Highlander, unless they are dissatisfied with the quality they are most likely to buy another highlander/sequioa/LX470.
Why else do you think all manufacturers spend so much time and money in developing entry level compacts with low margins.
To get the buyers young and impress them, and a majority of them will stay with the brand for life.

stickguy · January 2006

are pretty common (and this is an area that I do know something about!).

IMO, anyone on the lot is a potential sale. yes, people with no money or job are not buying today, but a current owner of a fairly expensive model of the car you sell certainly might be.

audia8q · January 2006

Brand loyalty accounts for 80% or so of car sales and you know it.

You have anything that confirms your 80% number or did you just pick any random number???

CNN/money mag had a story on just this topic 1/19/06...

Toyota has the highest brand loyalty at 55%
Ford is a very close second at 53.4%
GM has the highest manufacturer loyalty at 63%

qbrozen · January 2006

recent posts make me think that my personal experience is not all that common. I guess maybe I just hang out with more "car people" than is common. My friends and family are all pretty typically into cars, so nobody wants the same thing twice. They like to vary their driving experiences and try different flavors. I guess that's a rarer trait than I thought.(?)

guss · January 2006

Toyota has the highest brand loyalty at 55%

I would say that is better than 50/50 he is buying another Highlander, or at least a Toyota.

kyfdx · January 2006

We are alike... but, not like most other people, I don't think...

nwalbert · January 2006

Speaking of loyalty. How likely are dealerships to help you roll into a new lease for the same vehicle early?

Ie: I have a 2005 Acura TSX on a 48 month lease, and I am starting to think I would like some of new features present in the 2006 model. I am not thinking about swapping yet, but I know that I probably won't want to wait until the 48 months are up. Will I be punished, or if I stay loyal is the dealer happy to get me into something new?

Note: I will most certainly be well under on my km's allowance.

jaserb · January 2006

I'm on Mathias' side here. LOTS of non-car people buy the same type of car over and over. My aunt bought a 2005 PT Cruiser to replace her 2001. Her main reason was because there weren't any recalls or TSBs on the 2005s, so she thought it wouldn't be as unreliable as her 2001 was. Great logic, huh? My extended family has had "runs" of different cars over the years - there was a Prizm phase, a Caravan phase, a Civic phase (the old ones), an Escort phase, and the current unfortunate PT Cruiser phase.

If I were the salesguy in question I'd just respond with something like "Well, if you like the new one we've always got people looking for good clean used Highlanders. I'm sure we can get you into the new one for a great price, and Toyotas hold their value so well it probably won't cost you much at all to do the swap."

-Jason

kdhspyder · January 2006

My case: 4 basic 4c Camry's in a row from 1989 to 2005.

Avalon owners are like Buick owners in more ways than one including going from Avy to Avy to Avy.

I have 5 clients on either their 2nd or 3rd Prius' in 4 years.

kdhspyder · January 2006

This is very very difficult because the dealership has nothing to due with your rental agreement with the finance company. You've agreed to rent the TSX for 48 months.

In most cases it's very hard to get out of a lease in the first year. It can be done certainly. The specific condition, mileage and market value of your TSX right now is of utmost importance.

jipster · January 2006

Agreed...anytime someone is on the lot, that is a potential sale. But, at the same time doesn't a good salesman want to play the percentages? If there is no one on the lot...then sure...answer questions, or take someone for a test drive.

But, if it is a bit busy (or you are a young or struggling salesman)you probably won't want to risk taking the guy, who says he isn't interested in buying but just wants to check out the horsepower, out for a test drive.
Most salesmen probably question whether they will still be in the business long enough to see the return or repeat customer. So, I can see why salesman would not want to "waste their time" with someone they see as low potential. They're probably thinking, " My gas & electric bill and car insurance is due next week, little Johnny is needing braces...and this guy doesn't want to buy...he just wants to compare horsepower." :sick:

kdhspyder · January 2006

Most salesmen probably question whether they will still be in the business long enough to see the return or repeat customer. So, I can see why salesman would not want to "waste their time" with someone they see as low potential. They're probably thinking, " My gas & electric bill and car insurance is due next week, little Johnny is needing braces...and this guy doesn't want to buy...he just wants to compare horsepower."

This is sooo very true for the largest percentage of salespeople in the auto industry. Not for the 'stayers' but for the greenpeas and hangers-on. Along this line, saturday is Sales Day and it's just so many hours long.

Can you imagine the feeling when someone comes in and says 'Im not sure what I want I'd like to drive 4 different vehicles today!' ... on a Saturday?????

One wiseassed guy who didnt last long looked at a lady and said, 'Ma'am, Saturday is Sales Day, Tuesday is Test Drive Day, Wednesday is Paperwork Day, Thursday is my Day Off. Friday is Prepare for Saturday Day'. Now when did you want to come back?' But in fact he was not far off.

zodiac2004 · January 2006

I would think 3 years into a 48-month 0-down lease of a TSX, if you are under allowed miles and condition / maintenance is upto snuff, you'll be in a 0-equity situation.

zodiac2004 · January 2006

Are Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura considered same manufacturer.

Anyway a more pertinent number would be
How many of current Honda/Acura owners are likely to buy a Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus next.
And how many Toyota/Lexus owners are likely to do the same.

I'll be very surprised if that number is less than 80%.

stickguy · January 2006

I like to keep up with the new models, even when I am not (*cough*) in the market. But, I go in at an off time (lunch hour, during the week), and visit the salesperson that I recently bought from (or have dealt with in the past) when there is one.

Usually though, I just go in to play with the display model. I normally don't test drive, unless it somehow pushes all my buttons (that is, puts me into buyer mode). But, even then, I have had salespeople practically beg me to take a test drive, even though I told them I am just being nosy.

Now, if it was busy and "ups" were stacking up in the showroom, I'm sure they would be less anxious to take a ride with me. But when I stop in, it isn't uncommon that I am the only person in the place not on the payroll.

And yes, I have gone in just to see what a new model was like in person, and left with a sales contract in hand.

kalianna25 · January 2006

i recently bought a 2000 hyundai sonata (in july actually) with 92,000 miles

(shakes head in shame :calls herself dumb) I WAS DESPERATE AND STUPID I KNOW! anywho, and i already had to buy new seals. :sick: it now has 105,000 miles and now its kinda hesitating.. like the tranny is about to kick the bucket. Point: i want a new 2006 scion but i dont need another :lemon: being a woman i need to find out how i can get my car for the same amount without raising my payments... please help

sbell4 · January 2006

You want to know how to go from a 2000 Sonata with 92k miles to a 6 year newer Scion and keep your payments the same.....First, what are your current payments?

isellhondas · January 2006

Stay WAY out of this one!

qbrozen · January 2006

in addition to current payments,
what is your current payoff?

mikefm58 · January 2006

" i want a new 2006 scion but i dont need another :lemon: being a woman i need to find out how i can get my car for the same amount without raising my payments.. "

What??? Oh OK, I'll bite. Take a 2nd mortgage on your house for the amount of the new car plus whatever you're upside down on the Sonata and finance it for 15-30 years.

kalianna25 · January 2006

for the loan on my car.. is 260.77 and for full coverage on my insurance is 190.66.. so all in all its about $500 monthly

sucks.

kalianna25 · January 2006

um.. i dont have a house just yet.. BUT.. i will be moving in with my best friend in a new house next month. the reason i want a new car is my bday is saturday.

yeay.

imidazol97 · January 2006

Come on. Repressing ones feelings isn't good for one.

cars4mike · January 2006

Got my first price on an '05 Amanti demo w/all options, 6K miles. The car appears to be in very good shape. Sales rep claims invoice is $27,512 (edmunds says $26,990) and w/rebate my price is $25,512. How much more of a discount should I reasonably expect to get because it is a demo holdover with half a year's mileage?

bcb1 · January 2006

>>Point: i want a new 2006 scion but i dont need another being a woman i need to find out how i can get my car for the same amount without raising my payments... please help.

Okay, if you guys won't jump in, I will. Kalianna, I've got some bad news for you. You can't. Just as you can't escape the laws of gravity, you also can't escape the laws of basic finance. In other words, if you have a vehicle that you just bought, and your payment is $XXX dollars per month and you trade it in, you're going to be upside down (unless you put quite a bit of money down when you bought it).

So, when you buy that nice new vehicle, chances are you'll already be in the hole by a couple thousand dollars. And a brand new Scion...or Honda...or Toyota...or whatever, surely will cost more than a used 2000 Hoon-day. Even if you go out on a limb and finance for something crazy like 72 months, you're going to have a MUCH higher payment.

Here is an example:

New 2006 Scion - $22,000 out the door (taxes, title, etc).

Negative equity on your Hyundai - $4,000

Total = $26,000

Put down 5%, which is $1300. Finance the balance of $24,700. Let's say you have awesome credit, and you finance the balance for 60 months at a lowly 5% interest, and your payments would STILL be $465/month.

There just isn't any way to work the numbers so that you can buy a brand new vehicle for the same price as a 6 year old vehicle.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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