Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Right now, you probably wouldn't get a hybrid vehicle or a "hot introduction" vehicle at MSRP. That is *maybe* 10-15 models out of what, 300.
On at least 50% of the models, you would have salesmen fighting with each other to get to you if you are MSRP buyer.
One more comment. The people that I know who are complaining loudest about not being able to buy a Solstice at MSRP are the ones that buy it and have it up for sale in USA Today within about 15 minutes at $5k over purchase price.
Solstice is even lower production. It might help with Saturn coming out with the twin of the Solstice.
But, demand sets the price. No one buys at MSRP or above, the price will fall. Demand stays high, the price stays high.
Just like car dealers, oil companies are acting properly by charging whatever price the market sets.
The "record" profit figures I saw amounted to about 10% of revenue. The Government takes more than 10% of the cost of every gallon of gas.
When congress was putting U.S. oil refiners feet to the fire several weeks ago, the price per gallon dropped like a brick in water.
You really think politicians don't time this just so people believe that they have an impact? Everyone knows the price goes up and the price goes down...so after it goes up they "investigate" and the price goes down just as it would have without the "investigation".
From what little I unserstand about divorce, I believe he will...
-m
If anyone is dumb enough to pay over sticker for a car, have at it and be done with it. The asking price is strictly what the market will bear. It doesn't mean everyone will succomb to paying it though. Several of the cars mentioned as being short in supply are kind of plentiful in my neck of suburban Gotham in NJ. Every Pontiac dealer has at least one Solstice in stock, and nobody is charging over MSRP. The local Honda dealer has a row of leftover '05 Accord Hybrids that can't seem to be given away. At least $2500 off sticker. Eventually supply catches up with demand with any commodity. Even blingy cars.
In all likelihood I will be in the buying position soon, maybe even this month, but I honestly don't know if I want a fun car or a practical one. At least that is one advantage of currently driving a paid for miled up Celica that will stay around after this theoretical purchase. It is going to take a fair amount of dealership time for me to arrive at my decision, including when I am close to settling dragging the wife and family along for the finalists among my admittedly eclectic choices, which range all the way from used '05 4 door domestic mid-sizers to semi-outrageous sports cars.
I'm picking up a vibe here that I would be wasting a salesman's time while circling in on my target. IMHO, that would only apply if I was not a serious buyer. I typically start my research as much as 6-9 months prior to purchase. If I am going to spend as much as $40,000 or more, sorry, but I'm entitled to this courtesy. How many car salesman take being accosted at the appliance or furniture stores? Respecting the buyer's position is something that seems to happen only about 25% of the time at car dealers, in my experience. A recent example, one of my "in-between" cars I am considering is a used '03-'04 Lincoln LS. Went to check one out at a dealer convenient to work at lunchtime on Monday. Didn't make it 10 steps from my car when almost jumped by a salesman. Said my spiel honestly, that I was only tire kicking various 4-doors; that I had a few minutes to look at it real quick and that was that. To the guy's credit, he was quick with the key to open the car up, and actually immediately offered an all-afternoon test drive, telling me to take it back to work and bring it back in the evening, when I said time was tight. This LS was kind of barked up on the inside, and the condition of it didn't do anything for me. I said no thanks to the drive, offering my contact info so he'd have the "up". Inside though, various alternate pitches of vehicles continued, so what started off OK flipped to desperate measures for way to long, and was a complete turn-off. BTW, I most definitely was the only customer in the joint at this odd hour, which probably worked against me.
Also, anyone know offhand what percent of Chinese oil comes from being imported?
There is a big difference. Oil prices are controlled by a cartel.
It's certainly not free market forces at work.
Dunno. Most of it, I think. Consider this: In order to ensure steady supply, our Chinese friends have bought a considerable area of beachfront in Pakistan, right across the way from Oman. IOW, they can buy Arab oil, pump it through ONE country, and have it on their soil.
I was stunned when I looked at the map; geography has never been my strong suit. Come to think of it, what IS my strong suit...?
Anyway, good question.
-Mathias
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Mackabee
Jan: .. 11,700 vs 9,300
Dec: .. 15,100 vs 12,400
Nov: .. 11,700 vs 11,000
2005 vs 2004: .. 161,000 vs 159,000
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=10574
:shades:
Well, that depends on what you mean by research.
I, too, spend at least 6 months researching the cars I want to buy. I am very meticulous about researching how fun the car is, how reliable it is, how much insurance costs, manufacturer interest rates, etc.
However...that said...I will not test drive or negotiate deals until I am ready to buy. I will not waste a commissioned salesperson's time with my meticulous research process.
$150 per car. $150 for warranty - 80% go with warranty. $50 for every car I purchase as an appraisal only. Averaging a certain number of cars over 6 month period starts to raise the amount you're paid per car/warranty. The average salesperson makes around 45, I think. It is very, very easy to make that.
I work there part-time and love it. Come in on Saturday/Sunday only, average 8-9 cars a month. Average about 23-25 hours a week. Awesome job to have while in school.
Best parts: No old school greaseball sales managers. Nobody breathing down my neck. Ups are evenly split so you don't have to chase people down in parking lots, they are assigned to you. Wearing shorts in the summer.
Bad parts: Carmax buys cars outright. This attracts every broke joker who wants to unload their '05 GMC Yukon Denali and get paid KBB for it. Salespeople have to waste their time doing this and we're lucky to buy one out of 5 cars we appraise. All for a lousy $50.
I'm getting the same reports from my local Honda dealer on the other side of The City.
A few years ago I worked as the Internet Manager for a Subaru dealer in eastern Fairfield County, CT when the STi first came out. Dealers all around us were completely sold out for months ahead of production so our Sales Manager decided he could charge $5000 over MSRP. It didn't take long to see the folly of his actions...buyers stayed away in droves. I actually sold one car for $1250 over and that was it. The online shoppers at Edmunds, i-club and NASOIC trashed us. By December we had 9 STi's in our inventory and a new Sales Manager. I wound up selling some of them for a little as $500 under invoice just to get them off the lot.
I still wonder how many potential buyers avoided us even if they weren't considering an STi. With a reputation for overpricing, why bother even emailing such a dealer?
One thing I have noticed with people I know is that they will go to Carmax and get their trade in appraised then run to the new car dealer with that car for a trade in and use the Carmax quote as leverage.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Even worse the probably second location for our franchise is going to be two blocks away from the Carmax they are constructing.
Good article by the way.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mathias.....ain't that the truth. In fairness to my neighbor, he's geuninely nice and good person. He's caught up in a "when bad things happens to good people" situation.
He thought he'd spluge a little when he bought the '05 'vette....kiddies all grown. good job, golf condo in Hilton Head....nice Cris Craft on the river.....etc. Little lady says "that's not enough.....I want a guy who may or may not wake up with me in the morning".
He's desperately trying to liquidate everything to cover a steep drop in cash.
Part of me wants to take advantage of his weak negotiating position (I'm ashamed to say). The other part of me doesn't want to be exploitive and a party to the marital carnage.
Dealers are offering him mid $30s. He wants low $40s (I think he paid $50K+ for it several months ago, new). Terry says high $30s are all the enchiladas (IIRC). Even though it's a like new piece, and I've always wanted one, I'm still not motivated enough to lay down $40K+ for it. I certainly don't need it.
Do 'vettes really depreciate that much? I thought they held their value better than that.
Even worse the probably second location for our franchise is going to be two blocks away from the Carmax they are constructing.
Just wanted to make a comment on Carmax. I guess you could say we've been pretty lucky, as we've never had a "horrible" dealer experience.
My wife's Intrepid was bought new from a DC-area Dodge dealer, and it was a good experience.
My Yukon was bought from a small-town dealership near our home, and it was very good experience. Only $500 over invoice for them to special-order me one, and that was back when the new body style first came out in 2000.
But hands-down, our best experience has been at Carmax. Absolutely no games, no pressure, walk around and browse all you want with no one following you around like a puppy. Drive as many cars as you want, again with no games and no pressure to buy. It was the most pleasant buying experience we ever had.
There is no doubt in my mind that we probably paid a few hundred more than if we did some hard-nosed bargaining at a traditional dealer. One of the things that really sold us was the 5-day return policy at Carmax. NO traditional dealer does that.
That 5 day return policy must have some strings attached I would think otherwise it would have to be a nightmare for a number of reasons!
And on average, you will pay about $1,500 more per vehicle than if you negotiate with the average dealer.
For the record, I have sold several vehicles to Carmax and have done any number of "apples to apples" comparisons. I usually check to see what the Carmax sales price is prior to shopping traditional dealers.
We have a 72 hr/100 mi 'exchange' policy but the vehicles cannot be 'rented' for 3 days and then returned. They have to exchange it... and normally, inorder to discourage frivolous players, the new exchanged vehicle is at full MSRP regardless of what the original deal was.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Their website lists all of the current states they opperate in.
http://www.carmax.com/dyn/companyinfo/locations/locations.aspx
At the Carmax locations in my area, their standard doc fee is $99 (I think that is what I heard someone say that has bought from Carmax). However, many tradional dealers around me charge anywhere from $299-$500 for their doc fees. You have to consider this into that equation as well (this is assuming the $1500 difference you mentioned earlier was just comparing the price of the car, and not the total deal).
Whenever I have seen Carmax ads(low-no haggle prices) in our local paper I have thought the same thing. I'm thinking who would buy a car at that price...it's a grand, or two, or three overpriced. Is Carmax truely "no haggle" or is it more of the "no haggling necessary" pitch.
I think they are truly no haggle. I haven't ever purchased a car from them, but I have tried. I tried purchasing a vehicle there a couple of years ago, and the price was the price - there was no budging (and this wasn't a rare/hard to find car either).
Prices likely will come down to MSRP in 3 months, 6 months maximum.
However, I believe that hot models usually do not attract really smart money. Today's fad often looks funny tomorrow.
No more fake CSI's. Salesmen would get paid a salary + bonus based on customer satisfaction
With the bonus CSI would be very important, probably even more than now. The current CSI system is sick for two reasons:
- any grade but excellent in all counts is considered not satisfactory, and
- unreasonable complains count
Manufacturers definitely must be aware of this. They have some hidden reasons to continue with the system.
who would've thought 15 years ago that GM and Ford would be in the kind of horrible financial condition that they are in right now, struggling to survive?
It was clear for more than 30 years, as long ago as 1973-74.
It is called inflation of grades and is present everywhere. If every high school student is exceptional, every car manufacturer wants to claim "excellent" reviews by their customer. Almost every restaurant and bar has "Voted #1" plaque.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
This can be the case, but on average, we are not $1500 above the competition. I have dealt with many customers who are cross shopping and while Carmax might be more expensive, not always as much as $1500.
The one thing I can say for certain is that the quality of used car Carmax sells is much higher than any of the regular used cars lots can offer. There are of course exceptions, but the paint, tire wear, and mechanical criteria are much higher.
I'm not here to be a corporate shrill by any means. The place isn't perfect.
I think it is ridiculous, but there aren't any strings attached. People can come in, buy a 2005 Range Rover with 4k on it, drive it 500 miles in 5 days, and bring it back by 9pm on that 5th day and get a 100% refund. As long as the vehicle doesn't have obvious damage, it takes the customer 25 minutes to sign 6 sheets of paper and the deal is cancelled.
This system is just made to be abused. It's up to the salesperson to determine if the people are serious or not. If I have any inkling the person isn't serious about keeping the car, I don't push for the sale. I've had only 1 car return in the year I have worked there.
A customer can actually return a car and get theri money back??
That is absoultly NUTS! A sleazeball customer can buy a car and spend the next five days looking for a better deal on a different car???
Three things.
First, I am speaking from my experience buying typical garden variety vehicles (Taurus, Impala, Malibu, etc.).
Second, Carmax does not have a monopoly on buying good used vehicles. There are a number of used car dealers that have a good number of vehicles in excellent condition. I would rate Carmax above average ... but you pay for it.
Whether I buy at Carmax, at a great dealership, a BHPH lot, or through a private seller, I bring one of my two trusted mechanics to give a good once over, a test drive, and usually, they try to get the car up on their rack to see the real story. And yes, they have found some issues with every car, including those we have checked at Carmax.
- Carmax is great for someone who wants a no haggle purchase experience. It truly is no haggle.
- The cars are priced more than a comparable car elsewhere. The last time I priced there it was for a low mileage '05 Civic or '05 Corolla S models last Sept., the prices were about $500 less than a new '05 at the time.
- The cars really are top notch, immaculate inside and out, new tires, up to date on all maint., warranty, and 5 day money back offer. Details are on their website.
I know several folks that have bought at Carmax and all have had a good experience.
Snakeweasel (nice name for a car salesman), mentioned that they've had buyers come in with a Carmax offer on their trade and try to get them to match it. What's wrong with that? It's a realistic real world idea on what they can expect. I sold my '98 Mustang last Sept. for $3800, Carmax had offered my $2200, and the Honda dealer where I bought the 05 Civic wouldn't touch it.
Now as several posters have noted if it was traded from one dealer to another and has never been driven otherwise it could have 200 to 800 miles on it depending on how far apart the stores are.
:confuse:
Mackabee
We've had people drop the keys back off and say "thanks, but the kids weren't comfortable on the car trip". The car TRIP.
We even hold onto their trade in if they ask us to.
Yes, it's ridiculous.
Second, Carmax does not have a monopoly on buying good used vehicles.
You are correct, they do not.
Not all carmax stores put out cars of equal quality. I think that our store is perhaps one of the best in the midwest. We transfer in cars for customers that do not meet our store's standards and we have to pay to correct that before we sell them. The Texas stores, in particular, are of lower quality.
But I will say that you will not find sub-$10,000 cars in better condition than the ones we have.