Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

michaellno · February 2006

before I met my wife, she was living in Cheyenne with her first husband.

He does roofing for a living, and needed a small truck. They ended up buying a Ranger, which the salesman delivered to her home with all the paperwork. All she had to do was sign and take delivery.

I'm assuming that they had the financing all taken care of. But still, not having to deal with the F&I guy? Priceless!

Not sure that would happen these days; just thought I'd throw that out there as an example of exemplary customer service.

BTW, the wife bought a Tempo from the same dealer a year or two later -- not sure if it was the same salesperson.

snakeweasel · February 2006

As far as I am concerned the dealerships can do a lot towards reducing the amount of time there. Last time I bought a car I spent nearly an hour waiting for the finance guy to finish with the person in front of me. Then when I get to see him he spends the next half hour trying to sell me something I don't want. Just get the paperwork done and let me sign it. I spent less time closing on my house.

I swear next time I buy a car the first thing I will say to the finance guy is "I am done buying, if you try to sell me anything more I will walk out and you will lose the sale".

british_rover · February 2006

Yeah everyone says the same thing about houses vs. cars and my answer always is. Houses don't move and normaly don't kill people.

golic · February 2006

Well snakeweasel,

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but often more profit is made on a car in F&I than on the sales floor. It's the last stop to make some more money and I am sure it is one of the reasons for the long drawn out process of tiring you out.

Be nice to F&I, afterall he/she is all one stuck in some corner in a dark office and no one ever really talks to him. *shrugs*

Smile

snakeweasel · February 2006

Thats pretty immaterial isn't it? Far more paper work in buying a home. The settlement sheet is a lot in itself, not to mention all the other work. Nope the only reason that the paperwork at the dealer takes longer is they try to sell you undercoating, paint sealant, scotch guard, extra warranties, anti theft devices, that insurance that pays out if your upside down on the loan (forget what its called), alien abduction insurance and who knows what else.

With the home closing the sale is done and all you do is sign the paperwork.

snakeweasel · February 2006

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but often more profit is made on a car in F&I than on the sales floor.

I know there is more profit there (heck they try to sell you 25 cents worth of scotch guard for $250), but to be honest those things really should be discussed during the purchasing decision.

golic · February 2006

Yeah, but nothing beats "window" etching for "our" protection of course.

If I ever have a car stolen, the abosolute LAST thing I want is the car to be found and returned to me. That is why I have insurance.

dad23 · February 2006

This may not be the right place, but how does an auto broker effect your bottom line? We've used one in the past, felt like we got a good deal, but could we have done just as good or better going directly to the dealer? I had a salesman once tell me using a broker was in effect delivering us a used car??? Anyway, just curious, as it seemed nice to avoid one of the dealerships here in town

tamaraster · February 2006

> With the home closing the sale is done and all you do is sign the paperwork.

Yes, but when you sell or buy a home, typically you have a real estate agent working for a giant cut of the sale price. I'm sure if you want to pay someone 6% of your new car price, you can get them to handle your entire deal. Maybe that is what brokers do.

dad23 · February 2006

That's basically what our broker did. I told her what we wanted, color, options, etc. She located the car from a local dealer and had all the financing taken care of and the vehicle ready to go. I think it took all of 15 minutes to sign stuff, go over the car and we were gone.

BTW, as a realtor, when you have a good closing, in that you're not there long other than to sign the papers, we go over everything prior to closing so my clients understand what they will be signing. The worse situation is to have someone come to closing that hasn't looked everything over and wants to read it all right there!

imidazol97 · February 2006

What did the guys use to take out ball pen? I have a short mark on our leather seats.

Sympathy on the behavior of some parents. Our kid never would have done that.

jeffyscott · February 2006

Not quite an hour, we may have taken 1.5 hours at the dealership when we bought...but that included a short final test drive. We had to drive about 75 miles to this dealership but (with absolutely no negotiation) they sold the car for about $700 less than local dealer offered.

british_rover · February 2006

You mean Gap insurance.

We don't sell any of that other junk, with a couple of acceptions, because we are a high line store and completing all the paper work still takes an hour or so depending on the transaction.

If someone is fiancing a car and not putting too much down we will recomend the Gap insurance since it is actually a good idea at that point.

Extended warranties for new cars we just mention it but don't push it. For used cars they all come with a extended warranty anyway but we always offer to have people buy more. You would to if you have ever seen the cost of repairing these cars out of warranty.

Obviously a cash transaction with no trade does not require much time or paperwork but that does not happen too often. The two most complicated deals I have done involved several stacks of paperwork. One was a deal that had three trades, all with pay offs, all upside down, all worth in excess of 50,000 dollars and all being traded in on one vehicle. Two of them were personal cars one was registered in the company name and the new vehicle was going to be under the company name of a different company the same person owned.

That was like two folders full of paperwork.

bobst · February 2006

"If I ever have a car stolen, the abosolute LAST thing I want is the car to be found and returned to me. That is why I have insurance."

Golic, that is exactly how I feel. If one of our cars is stolen, then just give me some money and we will get a new one. Who knows what they did in the back seat.

stockmanjoe · February 2006

Snakester:

You really had guys still trying to sell you

"undercoating, paint sealant, scotch guard, extra warranties, anti theft devices, that insurance that pays out if your upside down on the loan (forget what its called), alien abduction insurance"

Cause I remember those days good. We called her the "rust and dust girl". She was about 7 or an 8 with big "eyes" and she would try to sell you all this crap but I haven't seen that in quite sometime.

jneal · February 2006

Delivery can happen these days. I recently bought 06 Dakota via internet from dealer 125 miles away and salesperson offered to deliver it at n/c. Didn't take him up on the offer however. Still was out of the dealership in abt 2 hrs and that included waiting for them to finish servicing/washing the truck etc.

rroyce10 · February 2006

.... **You mean Gap insurance. We don't sell any of that other junk, with a couple of acceptions ...**

I would be thinkin' you guys would be trying to market Gap insurance ... I mean let's be honest, even though they're nice vehicles Land Rovers have the resale value of 3 day old piazza's .. you'd be doing the customer (and yourself) a great benefit ... I'm surprised you guys don't sell Gap to everyone ......

Terry :surprise:

rroyce10 · February 2006

...... Dealers don't pay for auto brokers - "you do" .... do they even exist anymore.?

Terry.

jeffyscott · February 2006

Extended warranties for new cars we just mention it but don't push it. For used cars they all come with a extended warranty anyway but we always offer to have people buy more. You would to if you have ever seen the cost of repairing these cars out of warranty.

Since the warranty has to pay the cost of these same repairs plus generate a profit, on average it is cheaper to just pay to fix your own car.

steine13 · February 2006

Well, it's insurance like everything else.

But a risk/reward calcualation is not as easy as multiplying a repair cost by its probability.

Some things you HAVE to insure against, because the downside is something that would wipe you out... even if the risk/reward is out of whack; case in point is rental car insurance if you don't have any of your own. Overpriced but necessary.

Of course, if you're buying at the Rover store, you'd better be able to stomach the occasional bill, and therefore the warranty money is best left in your wallet. On average.

-Mathias
who carries lots of insurance and high deductibles.

basscadet · February 2006

Don't get me started on people who actually bring DOGS and then get mad when the dog can't go along on a demo drive!

Oh, don't get ME started on dogs.

Our dealership allows people with dogs to come into the dealership and take them on test drives.

I think that is absolutely ridiculous. I've also seen dogs in restaurants (not seeing-eye dogs, either).

LEAVE YOUR DOGS AT HOME.

And on the matter of children - it is frustrating. If you can't afford a babysitter, you can't afford a car. Period.

steine13 · February 2006

And on the matter of children - it is frustrating. If you can't afford a babysitter, you can't afford a car. Period.

Steiner's Law of Polite Conversation states that many a dumb statement is followed by "Period".

Not all kids are pests. Mine isn't, for one, and she's perfectly well behaved in public. If she isn't, we're going home at once, and she knows it. Period, so to speak.

-Mathias

basscadet · February 2006

Not all kids are pests. Mine isn't, for one, and she's perfectly well behaved in public. If she isn't, we're going home at once, and she knows it. Period, so to speak.

A well-behaved child isn't a nuisance at all. I have absolutely zero problems working with parents who have kids with them. But when I can detect that the children are distracting their parents from the business at hand, that's when they need to stay at home. And more often than not, the worst-behaved kids are the ones who are dragged to the dealership with mom and dad. Trust that I am not making this up.

(no period necessary here)

This isn't about "bad kids". This is about bad parents. Parents who let their kids mark up seats with pens, scream in restaurants, etc. I grew up in a big family so I know how hard it is to raise kids, but my parents never dragged us out to places where kids would be bored and irritable.

basscadet · February 2006

I am not the guy who is going to screw the guy who invested the best time in me over a few hundred bucks. If the internet guy wants to call and tell it to me, that is fine. I dont have the time nor the desire to run all over chicago to see if anyone can beat the best offer by a $100.

You sound like a nice guy, golic. I believe you.

But understand that internet sales people work with real jerk customers who will forget the hours of service they've received and buy elsewhere to save $50. It happens all the time.

If car buyers had any, ANY idea how poorly salespeople were treated by other customers they could begin to understand why some salespeople act so callously.

dad23 · February 2006

Exactly, and I suppose the dealer doesn't care whether the buyer is a direct consumer or an auto broker, they will sell and make profit off of the car in either case. There are several brokers in my area who will do all the legwork for you, arrange to have different vehicles at their facility for you to test drive and then arrange everything required to purchase or lease the vehicle. My experience was that it saved a lot of time and energy not to mention the brain damage of being jumped on before you even got out of the car at most dealerships (yes, I know not ALL dealerships are that way) It was worth the $350 fee to go this route for me, we'll see if we go this route in the next month or so.

raybear · February 2006

I love dogs, I got my ears washed by a Bernese Mountain dog just last week when I appraised a trade-in.

I think dog-and-kid-friendly dealers have a better shot at a sale, but please keep'em under control!

1racefan · February 2006

I agree with not wanting the car back. Plus, what is the point of etching (besides a gimmick)? How many times have you heard of a police officer walking past a car and seeing the # engraved on the window, and spot checking it to see if it happens to be stolen. I may be completely wrong about my understanding of this, but it just seems like a waste.

imidazol97 · February 2006

>I've also seen dogs in restaurants

I suspect in our state the boards of health would have a say about dogs in restaurants. I'll call later this morning. I know I'd be leaving loudly so others think about eating with a dog in the restaurant.

snakeweasel · February 2006

You would to if you have ever seen the cost of repairing these cars out of warranty.

To tell the truth I don't think I ever had a car where an extended warranty would have been beneficial. Yeah I have had some repairs that would have been covered under an extended warranty, but they cost less than the extended warranty (especially after you consider the time value of money).

snakeweasel · February 2006

Yep last time I bought a new car (well I did recently get a new previously titled car where that didn't happen but thats a different story) they tried to sell me all that (ok the alien abduction insurance was included as an example in the extreme).

grandtotal · February 2006

Of the last half dozen or so cars I have bought I don't think any of them took as long as an hour. I will admit that I have tried to buy a car twice where the process has taken more than an hour and then I've come away empty handed, but I've gotten a lot better at spotting the situation developing now and will abort if necessary. Somehow though sales people seem to be getting better at recognizing that I am there to buy a car, don't want to go away empty handed (but will) and now work with me to make that happen efficiently.

golic · February 2006

I will be the first to admit, I have no idea of what the secrets are to buy a new car, nor do I want to entertain any gimmicks.

So here is my question, give us some guidance that a serious buyer can use to get a fair price that won't waste any of your time or ours.

Is it TMV?? I know you want to make the most commission possible, we want to pay the lowest price, but there has got to be a compromise point where you can say, hey if this guy will wrap this up in 15 minutes I accept this.

Or I am just way off base, I guess if you are there every day for 8-10 hours, are you really concerned about wrapping things up quickly?

jefferyg · February 2006

Is the waiting. Waiting for the salesman to talk to the sales manager and see if this deal will work. :mad: Waiting to even see the finance guy because they only have two and six customers waiting to get in to see them. :mad: :mad: I would love to go to a dealership and be able to deal with JUST ONE PERSON! :mad: :mad: I was going to add another mad face but it won't let me.

The best advice I can give anyone is Don't ever go to buy a car on Saturday! The quickest deals I've ever done were when I went by myself to the dealership on a weekday, I had done my homework ahead of time, and I told the salesman up front that I didn't want all the fluff and stuff. And even with all that it has taken more than an hour. Let's be realistic, in researching, shopping, test driving, etc. most of us have already spent SEVERAL hours, so just live with the time it takes once you finally get to the finance people.

I also feel that you should leave the kids at home or with someone - unless they have to co-sign the loan with you. :P Even the most well-behaved children can be a distraction.

And the dog business, that is ridiculous unless you're shopping for a truck and he/she can ride in the bed which I can assure you most dogs prefer. And dogs in restaurants - GROSS! I say NO SHOES, NO SHIRT, NO SERVICE!

travler · February 2006

For all of you wondering why it takes so long to get in and out of a dealership,Here is an idea of some of the paperwork:
30 day tag application
Title application
Power of attorney
Lender Odometer
Trade Title (If applicable)
Trade/lease Odometer
Power of Attorney for Trade
Payoff Authorization
Copy of Buyers order
Drivers License
Lemon Law
Proof of Insurance
Final Check List
Pre Delivery Check List
Privacy Policy.
This is just for a cash deal. If it's financed there would be more.

It takes time. The F&I person should be explaining each document as you go along. Plus, you should be reading the contract or bill of sale to make sure nothing has been slipped in without your knowledge. I've seen contracts with extended warrants, credit life, and other add-ons that the buyer didn't even ask for. Slow down, ask questions, review the numbers. :shades:

golic · February 2006

But don't forget, sometimes us parents have to use the Obnoxious, screaming, climb on everything they can kids as a ploy so the Sales people do whatever they can to get us out of there right away!

*snicker*

stickguy · February 2006

what helps is if you made the deal in advance, and have to go back to get the car later (and sign the final papers). If everything is printed out and ready to sign, it saves time. Still, everytime I buy a car, it seems like there are more docs to sign. Even my last car, where I paid cash, had a silly amount of things (although I did have a trade, so that was some of it).

My favorite was one form that stated I had seen and signed the previous form!

Anyway, the salesperson did some of the initial stuff (more related to the car, like the PDI forms, etc). before I even got to the F&I guy. So, the whole deal end was maybe 1.5 hours, plus some time to clean out the old car, etc. This was after the negotiating process, which started earlier that day in person and ended later on the phone.

The honda dealer I bought out has a big display board by the door that details how long the process should take. Can't recall all the details, but i think it was 1-1.5 hours to show a car, and 3-5(?) hours for a sale and delivery.

They have all the steps listed. Meet/greet, talk about needs, show the features, test drive, etc.

stickguy · February 2006

I thought of that too. If nothing else, it will make them cut right to the chase. It is a proven psychological ploy to break your spirit (by making you sit around until you just agree to their terms so you can go home). Adding 2 screaming kids tearing around the showroom though skews the delay process in your favor!

tamaraster · February 2006

I don't buy a car that often, so I guess time spent in the dealership really doesn't bother me. It's kind of fun to buy a car.

backy · February 2006

If you want to cut to the chase, go in at 5:50 on a Saturday evening (when they close at 6:00). To make sure, bring one of your kids along (well-behaved of course) and keep looking at your watch and saying, "I've got to get to a party at her friend's house." Worked for me the last time I bought a car, was in and out of there in less than an hour. (Had already driven the car before that.)

volvomax · February 2006

Auto brokers don't affect our bottom line, just yours.
Generally, the broker gets a quote from a dealer and then marks it up several hundred dollars.
As for the used car thing, in most states brokers can't sell new cars because they don't have a new car dealers license. A new car dealer will sell a car to a broker, then the broker sells it to you. Technically, it is a used car when you purchase it.
In most cases, its just a question of semantics. But, in some cases it may cost you some incentives or other benefits.

golic · February 2006

I understand the sign your day away with F&I and all the CYA forms with him, BUT it ss the FORMS you have to sign with the salesman to decline stuff they want to sell you.

Do you want etching NO - sign here, here and here.

Do you want 50 year rust protecting *headtilt* its a 3 year lease??? ok, sign Here, and here and initial here.

What if i don't sign???? Are they gonna go AHHA- gotchya $500!!! *scowl*

mazda6iguy · February 2006

We have a handicap assistance dog. They are allowed everywhere we are (even dealerships and restaurants). That is guaranteed us by the ADA law. See www.caninecompanions.org

1racefan · February 2006

I have had good luck in the past finding a specific car on the dealer's lot (either by checking in person, or on the net). Then I call my own credit union to get preapproved and to get their interest rate. After that, I will call a salesperson, discuss the vehicle and price to see if we can agree upon a price over the phone - if so, I will make an appointment with that salesperson for a weekday evening. I then show up for the appointment to drive the vehicle, and then ask them if they would like me to put down a deposit and come back with a check, or if they want to try to beat my interest rate. Every time, they end up beating my interest rate and I am out within an hour to hour and a half max. I have done the Saturday thing before and it just takes way too long.

mazda6iguy · February 2006

What we do when the time comes to buy, we test drive the car on a Saturday, then come back on the following Monday or Thursday, giving us time to think things over, and then make the purchase.

british_rover · February 2006

We do offer gap to people who are financing a fair amount of the purchase. Gap is actually the only thing our F&I guy offers besides extended warranty. The thing is way over half of our custoemrs are either cash buyers, lease or putting down well over 25% of the purchase price with a finance.

At that point gap is really not needed.

As to the warranties an complete air suspension failure on a mark II range will cost about 2500 dollars to replace all the bags and related components. And the air suspension on those vehicles is absolutley going to fail at some point they all do. The Freelander's tranny, just too heavy of a vehicle for the size of the tranny, will fail at some point but not necessarily in the first 50,000 miles. Same thing going to cost a couple of grand to replace. The extended warranty on each for a couple of years at 25,000 miles is not nearly that much.

It is just not a good idea to have any of the older land rovers out of warranty. Even the new mark III ranges I would not own out of warranty as expensive as they are to fix even though they break down much less frequently.

british_rover · February 2006

They are probably more covering them selves then anything. Making sure there is a document that you did not want this so in five years you can't try to sue when your car breaks down and you don't have an extended warranty when you know you bought one.

Also might be the F&I guy covering himself from his bosses to show that yes he is trying to sell all of this stuff to customers and they are declining it.

fredvh · February 2006

Can anyone tell me if it is still possible to special-order a new 2006 ES330? If so, how long can this be done yet? I realize the new 2007 has just been revealed but they do not arrive until late April.

imidazol97 · February 2006

See www.standarddoginrestaurant.com. :mad: I completely understand, pause, the helping dog. Your response doesn't even make sense in responding to the posts!!!

The original comment:
Our dealership allows people with dogs to come into the dealership and take them on test drives.
I think that is absolutely ridiculous. I've also seen dogs in restaurants (not seeing-eye dogs, either).

graphicguy · February 2006

I know some will chalk this up to "things are different today than they were then". But, I remember whenever my father went to buy a car, he refused to take us (his kids) into the dealership with him. I do remember him taking us outside of the main dealership building, but we had to wait in the car. My mother would go to the car he was about to buy and check it out for maybe 10 minutes, but he would stay in the old car with us. Then, my mother would come back to our car to watch us while he closed the deal. Never were we allowed in the dealership. He didn't want the distraction.

He didn't want, or need, any of his kids approval for a vehicle. If he wanted it, it didn't matter what we thought about it.

I can't even imagine what the scenario would be like today with DVD players in a car, and kids crawling all over the shiny new minivan on the showroom floor, screaming how much they want the car with the "entertainment system" in it.

No baby sitter needed. If we didn't behave outside, our butts would have been worse off for the trouble.

As far as paperwork is concerned, I usually agree to the terms, leave a deposit, and come back the next day, at a designated time, to pick up my ride after the paperwork has already been drawn up. Only thing left for me to do is sign, inspect the car, and drive away.

carlisimo · February 2006

Yeah I was about to say "you'd have to let a seeing-eye dog on a test drive right?" But you probably don't get many blind test drivers.

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