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  • biancarbiancar Mid-AtlanticPosts: 965
    There are assistance dogs for the deaf, too, and deaf people buy cars.

    As both a buyer and a dog-lover, though, I personally would not want to buy a car that someone else's dog had slobbered over, nor would I ever bring my own dog along. But I could understand someone using an assistance dog having their animal with them.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,923
    But you probably don't get many blind test drivers.

    Then why do they put braille on drive up ATM's?

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Then why do they put braille on drive up ATM's?

    For the same reason they have the "Umpires' Locker Room" sign in braille at the stadium!!
  • chummchumm Posts: 4
    I took my 2000 corvette to the dealer three weeks ago for some electrical work. When they finally called to say the car was ready to pick up and the bill would be $780.00, I jumped in my car. When I got to the dealership I noticed the work only took 5 hours and there was 2,300 extra miles on my car!!! The Mgr. asked me what I want but offered no apologies or explanations. What should I expect from the dealer on this matter and what should I demand? Who do I contact to report this unethical action? Any help would be great.
  • mitzijmitzij Posts: 613
    Well, the 5 hours they charged you does not mean it only took 5 hours to fix. Were they waiting for parts? Was the tech sick for a few days? (smaller shops only have one 'Vette tech) Surely you were in contact with them while your baby was in the shop for those 3 weeks.
    I don't know about the mileage thing, though you'd have a hard time proving they put 2300 miles on it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Well, customers can certainly speed up the process by not haggling over the last dollar for one thing!

    And you're right. People like to show up at 3:00 on a busy Saturday when we are swamped. Then they complain about how much time it took!

    The people that really bother me are the ones who want to drive four different cars, then they grind the price for another hour. When the deal is finally done, they suddenly remember they have to be somewhere in a half hour.

    They will look at their watch every two minutes and pace the floor while I push the finance person to please hurry up.
  • chummchumm Posts: 4
    No, they were not waiting for parts and they only phoned me three times in that three week period. All the conversations were the same, saying they were still looking for the electrical problem. I phoned the dealer 4 times in those weeks "just checking in". The proof of the milage was what they entered it as the car was being checked in,its on my receipt, and what the spedomiter read at pick up (2,300 difference)The dealer did admit to a couple hundred miles they put on "testing" the performance. The dealer lied when I asked them on the milage diffrence and they said they never entered an amount when car came in. I was there when they entered the amount and they even commented on what low milage my car had. When I asked why it took 21 days to fix a problem that only required 5 hours to fix, they gave no expenation. Any help?
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    My girlfriend took forever trying to buy her RSX, on a Saturday. Family pressure to buy something bigger. I guess she got it into her head that if she could lop off $38 the price would reach a nice even number that would make it seem ok...

    I talked her out of that as soon as I had a chance to do so discreetly, but yeah, it was embarrassing. I think I was as tired of the whole process as the salesman was (though... half of that was just jealousy).
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Know what we do with people like that? We "broom them." We have a life too. Come back when we're open.

    Salespeople know that trick, and most don't fall for it.
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Some may not realize that Gap insurance is important under certain situations. Individuals should speak with their insurance agent if they have questions about it, and do not trust the dealer.

    A third party opinion is always helpful :D
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    In my book, dogs (especially handicap dogs) are people to, and can go anywhere as long as they're well behaved.

    In European countries they can and do go everywhere.

    As far as leaving a restaurant if there is a dog inside, there are probably employees of that establishment that aren't as clean as some dogs. Do they wash their hands before serving your food? You will never really know.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,937
    When I came in I apologized for getting there right before closing and asked if I should come back on Monday instead. The sales rep said, "No no, it's fine!" Then when we couldn't agree on a price right away, I said, "It's getting late and you probably have someplace to go. You have my number, give me a call if you change your mind (on their "final" offer)." She declined my offer and kept negotiating.

    So go right ahead and "broom" buyers if you want. I am in sales, too, and I know that I need to set my schedule by when my customers are available, not when I would like them to be available.
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    It's inconsiderate to expect someone to change their life to meet your's.

    I've done fine for 18 years. I'll do it my way. Keep plugging along. I'd rather enjoy life.

    I live to work, not work to live.
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,746
    To say the dealership screwed you over is an understatement chumm. Sounds like somebody took a cross country trip in your vette (there wasn't some sand and a few beach towels in the trunk were there?) I would be contacting every consumer protection agency available...would start by contacting the police and filing a report(they have essentially stolen money from you) and then Chevrolet corp. I would demand a satisfactory explanation. That whoever is responsible be punished...and $1 for every mile they put on your vette seems reasonable. The fact that the manager asked you what you proof he is guilty and trying to hide something. Contact a lawyer if need be...punitive damages to teach this scum a lesson could be substantial.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,937
    My customers pay my salary (and commissions). I don't mind bending to accommodate them. And I appreciate it when one goes the extra mile for me--that is one of the best ways to build customer loyalty, I have found in working with customers over 35 years. To each his own.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,923
    It's inconsiderate to expect someone to change their life to meet your's.

    When your in retail sales you should adjust your life to meet the customers. Don't like it get out of sales.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,746
    "in my book dogs....can go anywhere...In European countries they can and do go everywhere"

    That's the problem travler. They can...and do..."go" everywhere.

    Do you really want to be eating in a fine restaurant and have a dog relieve their bowels while you are eating. I'm not sure, but I believe a dog could care less if it has to pass gas while you are eating a plate of cannolie. :sick:

    The same goes with buying a new vehilce that has been given a test drive by someone who owns a dog with urinary incontenance. Would you want to buy that vehicle???
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    And then, apart from the aid dogs, where does it stop? Can I bring my cat, complete w/litterbox, on a test drive?

    I happen to like pets, but I'm allergic to most of them, and a car that's had pets in it would provide me with an unpleasant (at best) test drive. Not a lot different to me than letting someone smoke on a test drive.


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  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    I'm doing fine folks, just fine.

    I have customers who have been with me for over 12 years.
    I will work hard and long for them. It's the one's with the attitude that started this thread I have no use for.

    Read the first comment on this issue.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    There are plenty of Reputable dealerships that close right at "closing time" and I mean turn out the lights and lock the doors and ask you nicely to come back Tomorrow. Your a big Internet shopper so you know their hours, you just are trying to get the edge!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Let's simply drop this line of conversation. Everyone has different working styles and different income-to-free-time ratios that work for them. Me, I work 4 jobs and don't mind a bit. Others may be happier working 8-5, M-F.

    No need to judge anyone else's lifestyle.


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  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    We should just pick some other board to carry on these lively conversations.
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    Great post, Jipster!
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Would you let a person with urinary incontinence test drive?

    Just use good judgement in all situations. I said, "Well behaved."
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Thank you. :D
  • LOL!!!!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    You were kidding, right?

    Dogs are DOGS! They are NOT people!

    They stink, they shed, they slobber and someone else mentioned the other things they do.

    I like dogs but they belong at HOME!

    Nothing worse than trying to sell a used car that reeks of stinking dog! Much worse than cigeratte smoke even!
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    Hi Isell,

    So tell us exactly how you feel about dogs.

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..... **When I got to the dealership I noticed the work only took 5 hours and there was 2,300 extra miles on my car!!! ...**

    The date, the Vin# and the current mileage is plugged into any service work on the dealership computer ..... 2,300 miles is a looooong drive, are you sure.? ..l.o.l... we're talkin' a 40hr trip back and forth from Miami to Indianapolis, "in a Vette", not particularly a fun drive .... my other question is: .. you didn't bother to check on your car in 3 weeks...???

    ... hmmm, maybe it's me .. but do I see troll footprints in this story .? ..l.o.l... .. that said, if it's true, you got a bunch of $$ coming your way .... Jipster kinda reminds me of the Mother in that "70's Show" ~ always in a panic .. give that man a glass of wine ....

    If indeed this happened ... then make a lunch date with the owner, have all the paperwork on hand and I'm sure it can be handled - quickly ..... running around with a this and that action will stretch it out for 2/3 months - and you'll get half of what you might deserve ....

    Terry. :shades:
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Yes... I'm kidding.

    I'v never had anyone take a dog on a test drive. :D Though I've had a few customers who have come close to fitting your description of a dog (stink,slobber, shed).

    Have a good evening..... :shades:
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,746
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    I bet the meeting with the owner will be more productive if your attorney is with you.
  • racer63racer63 Posts: 123
    I have always done the final deals on all my purchases with the whole family along. When I bought the Celica, a 2+2 coupe at best, we even toted in the car seat and booster into the showroom, and the kids that went in them, to confirm we all fit. That dealer was fine with it, and even had coloring book kits to hand out. They just sat at the end of the salesman's desk and worked through their new stuff, for the close to 2 hours it took evaluate the trade and to negotiate the trade and car prices separately.

    Six years later, now that the then 2 and 3 year old are now 8 and 9, they now have certain tastes and wants, especially on what they can be seen riding around in. :surprise: (yep, it's that kind of town we live in...) Not that they are going to influence my ultimate purchase decision, but including them in the process, and explaining the relative costs and benefits makes for at least a few teachable moments. These kids have both been taken everywhere from about 2 days old, so they are well aware of acceptable behavior, and act accordingly.

    I have never done an on the spot deal and delivery; most dealers around here just don't seem to push it. When I bought the truck summer '04, we went on a Tuesday night and the longest wait was to find a salesman, since their were only 2 on staff at the store that night. Drove it, liked it, did the deal in 10 minutes afterward. Made an appointment to pick it up that Friday; paper work all ready to go when we got there. Time that day until we drove off was less than one hour. Total time from start to finish was maybe 2.5 hours, tops.

    It really doesn't have to be a grind. BTW, the above was in the family way too.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,746
    "Would you let a person with urinary incontinence test drive?"

    Thats an odd question. Are you suggesting I ask someone if they are "leaking" before I let them test drive a vehicle of mine?

    I guess it would depend... on if they were using "Depends".
    If so, I would have no problem at all with it.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,746
    "a 40hr trip back and forth ..."in a Vette", not a particularly fun drive"

    You must not know much about having fun, or sports cars, if you don't think a trip like that wouldn't be fun. ;)

    I think if you had read chumms post a little more carefully, you would have noticed he answered all of your questions quite clearly. He has proof of the mileage from when it was recorded when he brought it in. And chumm wrote that he checked on it frequently during the 3 weeks the dealer had it. Your comments/attitude kind of reminds me of the late Howard Cosell...who many said was a "legend in his own mind". ;)
  • We have a handicap assistance dog. They are allowed everywhere we are (even dealerships and restaurants). That is guaranteed us by the ADA law. See

    So you do not care that the presence of your dog is discomforting to your fellow restaurant patrons? You do realize that some people are frightened of dogs? Others might have allergies to dogs, too.

    I have a beautiful australian cattle dog that I love immensely. I love dogs. But I think taking dogs into public establishments is tacky and inconsiderate.

    And as far as why dogs don't belong in test drives...let's start with liability. If the dog is injured in the test drive (they can't be "buckled in"), the dealership is open to legal action. Who is going to pay for damaged leather? Who is going to hand-pick the dog hair out of the rough carpeting in the rear of the vehicle? Vaccuums can't get that out, trust me, I know this from experience! :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,095
    I cringe whenever this ADA stuff is mentioned. The original items were put into bills long ago with a different intent on the part of congress. Then they were reinterpreted in a more liberal way to use as a tool to mandate all sorts of requirements, often on businesses where they make little if any sense. I.e., the braille on ATMs at the drive through bank or the 25 handicapped spaces at a store because someone interpreted a number based on total parking-the store might have 3 or 4 users max because of the type of store it is.

    I recall someone mandating that a website I worked on had to be accessible and everything had to have explanatory titles to show if the graphic didn't for example. The person (from a state or local agency within Ohio) stated boldly that it had to be that way by Federal Law and cited the numbers. I read the dang thing and it said ONLY that federal entities had to do all that stuff. It did NOT say that everyone else in the country did. I posted the quotes. Someone else picked up on it. And the "new interpretation" by an overpaid public servant was debunked.

    I am allergic to dogs and cats. Friends from our scout troop train dogs for just such purposes for people who benefit from assistance. I've only seen 2 or 3 dogs in a restaurant in my life assisting and they were better behaved than some people, or some kids at least. Ordinary dog has no need and no rights to be in restaurant.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    Are you suggesting I ask someone if they are "leaking" before I let them test drive a vehicle of mine?

    With all the frivolous lawsuits today your probably should. I can just see the next sunvisor warning label:
    "To avoid risk of electrical shock, incontinent passengers should not use heated seats." :surprise: :P
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    " I bet the meeting with the owner will be more productive if your attorney is with you. "

    I bet bringing an attorney will kill any chance at a quick and fair settlement.

    They put 2300 miles on. Assuming Vettes are expensive to repair and maintain, I'd try to negotiate some cash and a pretty deep account to be used for future work.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 144,936
    I agree... I'd try it without an attorney first...

    I'd like to see someone put a number on this... It really is theft.. they could go to the police and bring charges.. How much is this worth? $1500? $2500? $5000?

    I sure wouldn't want an account for future work at that dealership... no way I would ever be back there..

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

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  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    I'm not an attorney, but I play one on this board *nodbonk* So riddle me this, did you explicitly tell the dealer he could not rack up miles on the car? Where in the law does it say that a dealer is only allowed X miles per day?

    What is 2300 miles worth? The IRS standard mileage rate is 44.5 cents per mile? Quick someone do the math *headtilt*

    Suuuuuuuuuure is want nice or moral...but you can't sue for Morality, can ya *sigh*

    On the other hand, here is my approach, it took the dealer 1 day to fix the car out of 21, lets give him the benefit of the doubt, one to asses and get lets give him 3 days. He obviously used the car for 18 days of entertainment...find out what the FMV is to rent a vette per day and start them.

    Tell him you will walk away with that, otherwise, you are getting an attorney and calliing every local news station and paper in town to let them know what goes on here. So take your pick *nodnod*

  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    If you only figure the standard mileage rate allowed by the IRS ($.445 per mile for 2006) it's $1023.50. And you've also got to figure that it probably costs more to operate a Vette, and the extra miles may cost you more in depreciation on a more expensive vehicle. I don't think the previous poster's $1 per mile is unreasonable at all. If the dealer wouldn't at least give me that I'd definitely be going to the Police.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .... Actually I read it 3 times ... **I phoned the >>> dealer 4 times in those weeks "just checking in". The proof of the milage was what they entered it as the car was being checked in,its on my receipt, and what the spedomiter read at pick up (2,300 difference) ..**

    I dunno about you ... but I wouldn't leave a golf club, a motorcycle or a frisbee "anywhere" for 3 weeks without being there psychically and getting some positive feedback ...... thank you for the compliment, Cosell changed the media concept of sports forever .. :blush:

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .. ** I agree... I'd try it without an attorney first...
    I'd like to see someone put a number on this... It really is theft.. they could go to the police and bring charges.. How much is this worth? $1500? $2500? $5000?..**

    It's not a theft thing, because the customer signed off on a service agreement .. but it could easily be abuse of property and loss of value .... depending on the original mileage, like 48k versus 50k, there could be a definite loss of value, plus I would "nit pik" that car apart .. this scratch, that ding, this paint chip, this stretch/rip and mark in the interior and the 2,300 miles on the rubber alone is good for $500+ ..

    This could easily be a $2,500/$3,000+ claim .. plus the potential bad press in the community is worth a bunch to the owner .... you don't want this going up the chain of command because all of the information will get diluted on the way up ..... if this poster is smart, they'll "completely" side step the service/sales department and bring all of the history and information to the owner/dealer principle - and only deal with him ... cuz', you can bet there will be more "yeah but's" going on than in the city of New Orleans ..

    Terry ;)
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    Speaking of bad press....

    I think I would try to settle this on my own (no lawyer). If the dealership was unwilling to work with me, I would contact the local television station. I am sure they would love to jump all over a situation like this. Having a reporter from the local television station contact the dealership might make something happen. Plus, I would think with the dollar amount you are talking about $1000-$3000, it wouldn't be worth it to you to get a lawyer (unless you are simply looking for a moral victory). Now small claims court, that would be another option - provided you have rock solid documentation.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,095
    >the 2,300 miles on the rubber alone is good for $500

    One question here is where did the car go for 2300 miles? Did the service manager commute 50 miles each way for 3 weeks in it? Did it take a vacation? I'd search every inch of that car with a witness for any item that might give a clue where it was outside of the dealership.

    But, that car has OnStar. What kind of records does OnStar and global positioning sensor on that car keep? It might take a legal order to get it dumped, but that could be real interesting to see the movement and locations during that 3-week period. I would find out what the GPS record is on the car.

    And what is in the black box record? Is it short term or does it show other data?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • We are looking to get another car. We are thinking about getting our financing secured ahead of time. When looking at cars, why do dealers always want to "run numbers"? If i have a check to pay for the car, shouldnt that cut down on the run around? There is no need to run my credit, etc if i already have the loan to buy the car.

    The only thing i will need to haggle on is my trade in.
    Any advise would be appreciated.

    DEALERS-do you have alot of customers that come in with preapproval?
    CUSTOMERS- How many of you have used this route?

  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    As a customer, I always get preapproved through my credit union before I go to the dealer. However, I always tell the dealer what interest rate I have, and tell them they may try to beat it if they would like (doesn't hurt to ask). Every time I have done this, I have gotten a better interest rate with the dealer.
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    Ditto, to the last guy, I would suggest two things:

    1. Go out and get the best financing you can, then give the F&I guy a chance to best it.

    Actually, the fun I had last time, was I already had 4.5% (or whatever it was) locked up and did not tell F&I. F&I, said he had 5.25% but since i was a good customer he would give me 5.0%. I told him he can do better and i wanted 4.25% - He said imossible, so I said ok and gave him my 3rd party bank check....suddenly....after squirming he was *able* to do 4.25%

    If you are going to get an extended warranty, cruise the edmunds boards. When I bought my Ody there was a Honda guy in AR or AL selling HondaCare warranties for practically cost.

    I did the same thing and F&I accused me of having fraudulant docs...he matched.

    I think the bottom line to remember is the Dealer F&I should be viewed as another option- they are not YOUR credit union, working for you, but an agent of the dealership operating another profit center.

    Do your homework, line up your choices and compare what the dealer gives you. I wouldn't automatically exlude the dealer either, give them a shot, they not only make there money on interest rates with the lender, but also volume so they may be willing to match your interest rate just to keep the volume going.

    Good luck.
This discussion has been closed.