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Comments
Don't take this personally and this certainly has nothing to do with your Mom, or her great success .. what part of that didn't you understand, the beginning, the middle or the end of it. Dealerships are like aquariums, what works for one, doesn't mean it will work for the one across the street .. when you work in a certain environment , you feel that's how the rest of the world navigates - unfortunately, it doesn't.
*** It's obvious you don't know about big business very well to equate showing salesman how to run a business ***
Not to waste a lot of print here, just read my profile .. I do have a little understanding of business and especially of the Auto biz.
I can tell you from my own personal experience and the experience of ~Many~ dealer friends, that letting salesman and Mgr's roll through all the paper work can make for some bad experiences, whether it be via competitation, too many rum and cokes at the bar, a Salesperson or Mgr who may feel slitted down the road .. there is just potpourri of things that can, and Do happen Everyday ..!
It get's back to the old adage, let Salesmen sell, Mgr's manage, Service service and the rest will work itself out .. unless there is an up and coming minority buyer coming in, there is absolutely no reason for the rest .. paranoid, not a bit, just a good businessman.
Terry.
I know we're not talking about letting new salesmen write checks for the dealer, but I believe, both as a salesman and a manager, that a salesman does better if true invoice, or actual cost on a used car, is not known.
The salesmen, especially an inexperienced one (80% of the car biz) will give away the farm to make a deal and the manager doesn't want that.
Also, the rear window going down was done by Mazda first (for sliding doors), but again that's something Honda doesn't offer. Plus AWD, so it's pretty complete. Back to the drawing board for the Honda designers!
Though I'm sure the Ody will continue to sell well. The pent-up demand is hard to believe.
-juice
You have to understand that I work for a Public company and I'm very into full disclosure. We're not talking "On this car, we made $420." "On this car, we made $520.". We're talking Income for xx/xx is $220,000, Expenses for xx/xx are $285,000. (Usually there are different operating statements for Sales / Service & Parts / etc.)
I guess I've just run into too many sales staff who think the companies are making big money for the owners and they often relay this in sarcasm to others, including customers. When they realize that it's a tight business, they aren't as apt to speak like that.
You are correct, what works for one does not work for all. It just always amazed me to see how "happy" and "Loyal" and "content" the sales staff was at my mothers stores. I don't how you figure out when it's right to do so, but I do think it's good business (in general) to have the employees feel like they know how the business in doing. Having an employee that "takes ownership" of the dealership does really good things.
That was my point and my experience.
And, in 1979 I bought a new Celica GT Liftback from Concord Toyota. One of the best cars I've ever owned.
Small world.
It's possible they heard about Sienna's changes and decided to make some changes that will cause a delay. Guess we shall find out.
How was your deal with Concord Toyota? This is all just hearsay (and my muddied mind) but I seem to remember when my mother purchased it in 1990 that they had a really bad reputation. I don't even remember what for but I do remember there were lots of stories about the windows/cars/walls being egged once a month or so.
It is, indeed, a small world.
The deal was O.K. as I recall. It took me three trips to buy the car. The Honda dealer across the street was terrible. He basically told me to take it or leave it. I bought the Celica instead.
Our distributor in Walnut Creek sold your stores a lot of tools.
: )
Mackabee
Toyota upped the ante so that helps me out. Bob still think Honda will offer at least one major new feature.
Just saw some pix from Chicago, and another thing about the Sienna is the sliding door tracks are sort of hidden at the bottom of the window. Dodge tried to take credit for that but I noticed it even earlier, on the Previa van (it had that black stripe around the perimeter to disguise it).
This fall already? Do you know at which show it'll debut? NY in April?
-juice
Most large dealerships go through 20-25% of their sales staff each month.
I've seen service departments that have similar trends, though not as strong as those in sales.
Mark
Ed
From some salesmen, I get the impression that they just see me as a 6 foot file of cash and they want to take a big chunk out of me.
work their own referral list and aren't seen hanging out up front. Some of them get promoted to management, and work more in a behind the scenes capacity."
Why take your best salespeople and make them managers???? They are your best salespeople!!
I do - I just like it better when they're not around.
Couldn't agree more. I worked for a company which promoted me to VP Development. Didn't work out well, I was unhappy and unproductive as well as a lousy manager. Twelve months passed like this until we were able to agree to demote me and get someone to do the job who enjoyed it and was good at it. It takes a brave company to admit they made a mistake and fix it, but fix it they did. I was happy again and productive (and earned more than my boss). The point of all this is that it isn't sensible to promote your best people always, however there is nothing wrong with rewarding them for their talents.
(I thought about asking this question in the Sedans/Honda board, but most discussions there are dedicated to comparing Hondas with other makes).
I am looking for a used 2000 or 2001 Accord, a 2 or 3 year old car. I considered the LX, SE and VP trims. I know that Accords are (usually) reliable, but I am wondering whether these years represent a good buy. Also, are Edmunds' dealer TMV prices for those (about 13k for a 2001 LX, 11.5k for 2000 LX) in the ballpark?
A dealer is probably the best equipped to answer my questions, since in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area where I live few 2-3 year old cars are sold privately - most are advertised by dealers.
TIA.
(http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/honda/accord/index.html?tid=edm- unds.u.mmindex.makemodelindexbody..5.Honda*)
I thought that the SE was just a 4-cylinder LX with auto, sunroof, CD and maybe alloys. Curious if this is a glitch in Edmunds TMV database, or SE's are actually have higher resale values than EX's.
For all the defensiveness of people who work at dealerships about taking a hit on "educated customers" and "internet sales" the owners of these places are wealthy......
: )
Mackabee
why don't your ever hear of poor dealership owners....answer.....there arent any....point....
$$$$$$$$$
It can be from poor management, bad mistakes on their vehicle buying decisions, the manufacturer has changed the rules and the now the dealer has to spend another $800,000++ for a new building and then get the clearances from the city for the new property, a used car Mgr that put's him in the soup for $300,000 or even a son or daughter that slept through school and now the whole staff is going south .. I have seen a bunch of it .. the big difference is, they don't advertise it like their cars ..
Anytime you think it may be easy .. finance yourself to death, drop a few mill and throw the dice and see what happens.
Terry:-)
He gives the perfect answer "finance yourself to death, drop a few mill and throw the dice and see what happens." With all due respect to royce and I do not know how he got the money to start his dealership, but I know I could not drop or get financed for a few mil. I bet if you ask a hundred or a thousand people on the street if they could be financed for a few mil their answer would all be no.
I don't see any dealerships going out of business in my area. (If they were I wished they would have those progressive sales like 20%,30%, 50% off like most retailers do)
A real world example of this is a friend of mine that used to work at a family owned business. The owner and his wife had successfully run a number of restaurants and bars in Texas in the 80's. When those businesses went south in the 90's the bars and restaurants closed leaving many people out of work, but the owners just declared bankruptcy on the business and they moved to Georgia ( along with their gold bars). Yes, this guy had bought solid gold bars. They started over with a new type of business in Georgia. I am not begrudging the guy for being a successful business man. But my point is that you do not get enough money to open a car dealership by being stupid with money. If that were the case then all of these dealerships would be privately owned with the owners personally responsible instead of a bunch of S corporations and Z corporations and whatever else there is. Why risk your personal money when you can let a corporation do it and if things get bad let the corporation file bankruptcy. The individual is protected. We see it everyday. Anyone remember Enron, or Worldcomm? I'm sure Kenneth Lay is living off of his last $20 bill, not.
if it's so easy...why isnt everyone doing it??
the failure rate of new dealers isnt any better or worse than the failure rate of new busines owners in any industry.....The big difference is the manufacturer usually wont let the dealerhip board up the windows...they find another person or company to buy out the dealership before it gets to that point.
None of that helps you do better, if all you do is say it's unfair.
Life is unfair, it is survival of the fittest.
Last time I checked, you don't become more fit by tearing down the other guy.
TB
Longs for the days when it is no longer considered a crime to success and poverty is not considered a virtue, but rather net worth is viewed as a neutral factor.
Many a car dealership has closed it's doors in failure. Just like any other business.
The dealership operates under the same name, but Mr Smith is no longer part of the picture. He rolled the dice and lost.
Say you owned stock in a company that bought a dealership, would you want them to lose money, lowering your stock's price? Of course not.
-juice
FWIW, I get part of the carbisguys' point, too. There's no shame or disreputability in becoming wealthy by owning and running a legit business selling cars. I agree.
The prob, I think, is the shady business practice most folks perceive as being common in the carbiz. Heck, hardly anybody gripes about the wealth of groceryguys or clothesguys . . . or about shady dealing in those businesses.
As far as the perception of shady dealing being common when one goes to buy a car, I agree with that.
Folks who've been ripped off?
Word of mouth is still the best source to find out things like "they're great - my salesman, Ron, is really nice and Jerry is service got my car in when I was in a pinch" or "those guys took advantage of my elderly mother".
Shame on you if you don't do a little homework on a $15-60K purchase. Who's to blame, then?
It kills me:
"They ripped me off" - do you mean you never saw a contract or signed a contract? They held a gun to your head? Strapped you to the chair?
"They screwed me on my trade" - and you signed a contract agreeing to the trade allowance?
"They ripped me off in finance" - trying to justify your ridiculous interest rate that the F&I manager worked a week to get and called in every favor he had because you don't pay your bills?
"The service department sucks" - because they won't drop what they're doing with the vehicles belonging to people who've made appointments a week ago to look at your silly little dash rattle problem?
There HAS to be someone to blame, right? In this current phase of never taking responsibility for your own actions, when you make a mistake, there's got to be someone to blame. Who is it?
As far as getting started, many dealerships get taken over (purchased) by former employees. These transactions are often funded by money that is held by the previous owner for 5, sometimes more, years.
They should be commended for not only doing well themselves but enabling those that are loyal to them to also have their own business.
Darn those capitalists!!!!!!!!!!!!
I 'm not be grudging making money I do it every day 7 days a week....THAT'S HOW i CAN AFFORD A CAR!...The "finance your self to death and take a chance " comment is the typical American attitude. ( don't get your panties bunched, I'm american) any body ever thought of living within their means?
any body stupid enought to finance themselve to death and roll the dice deserves to go out of business...most will at least put toghether a business plan and do some calculations to see a business can be profitable
I understand what the car dealers got through also....I get customers asking "where can I get it cheeper, is there any discounts" and they don't know they are talking to the guy who worked two jobs 7 days a week for 9 years to have his own business....and they want a discount!
but you know what it's easier to keep a customer that get a new one.....so we give them a gift with purchase at our expense... because we are gratful for their business.......most sales of cars seem to be the " sell them one now" who cares about tommorrow attitude...Not all mind you but unfortunatly most....
business...most will at least put toghether a business plan and do some calculations to see a
business can be profitable"
I dont own my own business and am not a banker...but wouldnt anyone attempting to finance themselves to death have to put together a business plan for the lending institution so they can assess whether loaning the money is worth the risk?
"I get customers asking "where can I get it cheeper, is there any discounts" and they don't know they are talking to the guy who worked two jobs 7 days a week for 9 years to have his own business....and they want a discount!'
Now those are just educated consumers!
There is a big difference in a business [owner] leveraging his business with debt and the foolhardy "Use today, pay over the next decade" attitude of a lot of consumers.
Businesses take on debt to MAKE money. It's part of doing business and keeps the economy moving and people employed. Consumers (usually) take on debt to buy things they can't afford to pay for at the moment. A lot of those things being consumables. (I'm talking about income/debt ratio positive Homes and Automobiles.)
There would be no business, period. If business-minded people thought the way you do.