Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

isellhondas · March 2003

Our "extra car" that I use as a beater to park at trailheads, take to work once in awhile is a '93 Prizm that we took in as a trade.

It has 151,00 miles on it. It runs and drives like a new car. A/C works fine, etc. Not one problem at all, compression was 180 in all four.

It's a Corolla and like Hondas these things seem to be bulletproof. You made a good choice!

zueslewis · March 2003

have transmission problems. Also, the 00s, 01s and 02s have developed some strange sliding door problems where the actuators fail, causing them to open whenever, not open or just sit and buzz.

bigorange30 · March 2003

I appreciate and value that input. I am not sure I consider the G35 a no brainer yet though. It is a new model so I am glad I have a little while to decide (probably 2-3 years). I hope my financial situation changes to make it sooner, otherwise, I have to be patient. The are also several complaints about the quality of the interior if you look on the G35 board. It seems that the simulated metal gets scratched easily and looks cheap. I hope they improve this over the next year or two.

zueslewis · March 2003

in Japan since 2000 - not a risk, IMO.

akangl · March 2003

Ok, maybe I don't want a Caravan. I don't want something that's going to give me lots of trouble. I would like to have AWD or 4WD and the Caravan is the only one that offers that in a minivan. Soooooo, what would you recommend? I need people room, cargo room, and preferably 4WD or AWD.

zueslewis · March 2003

or Grand Vitara XL-7. Cool rides, about the same price range (used) as a Grand Caravan.

My best friend, who lives in San Antonio, TX, just bought a new XL-7. He gets 23 mpg on the highway and there's enough room for his 16 year old's rock band and their gear - that's a bunch of gear...

rubicon52 · March 2003

Zues probably gave you good advice on the G35. My experience has been that when people are complaining about things like the simulated metal getting scratched easily it usually means the drive train and mechanical stuff is bulletproof and they have to complain about nits.

akangl · March 2003

Hmmmmm, Suzuki, well, there's no dealer in Fairbanks, which means for warranty stuff I'd have to go to Anchorage (300 miles away). Gotta stick with something that I can get serviced somewhat close to home (Fairbanks is 100 miles away). I'm not a big fan of Suzuki either, just seem cheesy to me. Back to the drawing board I guess, at least I've got time.

zueslewis · March 2003

I didn't have much respect for Suzuki until i started consulting for this firm. Out of over 2000 cases I've reported on, plus another 500-600 I've looked at, I've only seen 9 or 10 Suzuki cases. That says a lot.

akangl · March 2003

Ok, time to start eating my words I guess. Maybe I will take a look at one. Reliability is a big one with me. I'm a huge Chevy fan, I love their trucks and really would rather have a Suburban, but price wise its out there. I had a Ford Windstar and don't really want to revisit transmission woes, even though I do like the Windstar even now. I thought I had it all figured out with a Dodge Grand Caravan Sport AWD. I'm sure something will pop up as the perfect vehicle.

zueslewis · March 2003

Astro/Safari AWD?

akangl · March 2003

Mazda MPV quit being AWD in 98 and they are gas hogs, my neighbor owned one and rarely got over 15 mpg with it. The Astro/Safari twins are out of the question, gas hogs along with being unsafe.

Ugh, me thinks me is too picky........gonna hang a bunch of pictures of cars up and play einie, meinie, mieni, moe with my eyes closed. lol...

zueslewis · March 2003

But come on, like a Suburban is fuel efficient! Sheesh!

akangl · March 2003

Um, nope, they aren't, that's why its not on my list......as much as I would love to have another. My Windstar got 28 mpg, my Nissan Quest got around 25. Of course an awd minivan isn't going to be great I guess. *sigh* I'll figure it out. Maybe just get another Quest, mine was great.

im_brentwood · March 2003

I've got friends planning to buy a Ford Expedition, after getting great service out of their Explorer.

Queen Mary just a bit too big for them then?

I know squat about SUV's, but I'm thinking GM over Ford in that size range.

Good idea.

They will without doubt buy new. Given that, what would you guys recommend?

New is silly.. but oh well..

Best? Sequoia. Best resale, best reliability. Expedition is very nice, as is Tahoe. Expedition is more truck for the $$< Tahoe is nicer. Sequoia is stupid-expensive. Both are darned nice trucks tho.

Depends what they like, 03 Expedition is, IMNSHO, a nice product.

Bill

JPham · March 2003

By the way, the '04 Toyota Sienna is available in AWD.

JP

rroyce10 · March 2003

..... I'm a little surprised that you don't have any of the new "C" class Mercedes in the list .. there is more of those in the service depts than Cavaliers .. l.o.l..

Terry.

zueslewis · March 2003

The C Class is more problematic than a Focus or Neon.

rivertown · March 2003

Thanks!

mackabee · March 2003

I should start a new topic!! The private individual I was going to buy the 95 Prizm from on Sunday sold it from under me! As agreed, I called on Sunday morning at 11:30 am to inform him we were on the way to look at the car. "Oh, I sold it yesterday. Someone came with cash in hand and bought it right on the spot.!" He says. "Sir, I thought you told me you wouldn't sell it until I had a chance to look at it, and made my offer. I also have cash in hand." I replied. "I'm sorry I don't know what to tell you." Sheesh! Kind of ruined my kid's day. Back to square one.
: (
Mackabee

ateixeira · March 2003

Well, his ethics will catch up to him sooner or later. Bummer though.

-juice

bigorange30 · March 2003

for sure that you would buy it? He has one buyer standing there with cash wanting to buy and you think he should say, "I'm sorry, I have to let another guy see it first." I'm not sure that is reasonable unless you gave him a deposit. Maybe you should have found a way to get there sooner. If he is a good friend or someone you know well, that might be different.

Would a dealer hold a car without a deposit for a couple of days because someone called and said they wanted to look at it? Would he tell someone else they could not buy that one because another potential buyer had to see it first?

sonjaab · March 2003

Hey also check out a chevy/geo tracker. Same as
a Suzuki x-7. Made in the SAME plant in Canada
too. Prob. the Tracker will be cheaper to buy
also. My friend has a 4 door one 4x4 and loves it !

Speaking of the car being bought out from under
you Mack......My friend had a 90 CRX brought up
from Fla. to NY.....Clean, no rust, cold A/C
3 guys fighting over it !
She wanted $2500 and GOT $3300 cash.....
dealer only offered her $500 on trade. I see it
daily running around with a wing and fart can
exaust etc............LOL

zueslewis · March 2003

For a day or two? Of course they would. It's called an appointment.

To tell the guy who is there at the car that another person has to look at it actually puts the seller in better shape. He "takes away" the vehicle from the first buyer, usually causing anxiety and the need to commit and stay committed.

bigorange30 · March 2003

"He 'takes away' the vehicle from the first buyer, usually causing anxiety and the need to commit and stay committed."

Who is causing anxiety on whom and who has the need to commit and stay committed in this deal?

Are you talking about the seller causing anxiety on the original interested party or the one present? Are you talking about the original interested party causing the seller anxiety because he didn't show up sooner and is stringing him along? Does the seller have the need to commit or the original interested party? If he takes away the vehicle from the original interested party, how can that cause anxiety AND the need to commit?

How does whatever your saying put the seller in better shape?

mirth · March 2003

I think zues means that the second buyer will now feel that the car they want is 'hot' because someone else wants it, too, which may mean they'll pay more to get one of their own.

mackabee · March 2003

When I talked to the seller, good 10 minutes on the phone. Basically told me the whole story behind the car. Bought it at a Saturn dealership when it had 12k miles on it. Last couple of years had been driven by daughter whom has not moved to College, and also his father had just passed away a month ago. Car had been well maintained, also told me someone had looked at the car but low balled him. Offered him $1500.00 and he was asking $3200.00 for the car. He also mentioned to me that he would take less for the car. I also asked him to give me a call Saturday in case he did sell it, as little Mackabee had to ask permission to go to his job a couple of hours later than usual. I also told him we needed a car because lil' Mack's car (an 800.00 pos) we had bought 14 months ago had just went to car heaven, and also told him lil' Mack was footing the bill from his own savings to go to college in a decent car next year (sympathy close) I don't know what this guy sold the car for but I was prepared to pay the asking price. Time is valuable.
: )
Mackabee

marys235 · March 2003

I was checking the VIN on a used car I may buy, and Carfax says it has 6 records on the car, while Autocheck says it has 8 records. I don't really want to buy both reports ($20 each), but which one is generally considered more accurate? I've seen Carfax recommended more often, but Autocheck shows more records on this particular car.

bigorange30 · March 2003

to tell you that he had sold it. That's just polite.

You still didn't say why you didn't go sooner. You made the Sunday appointment on Friday? I don't ever take a chance with those kind of things. If it sounds like what I want, I drop what I am doing and go look at it or have someone I trust do it.

rroyce10 · March 2003

.... l.o.l.. You of all people should be knocking a sale -- hey, cash is King, those who got - Get.! - you my friend, should have been there with CIF (cash in fist) ..

I'm not picking on you, I'm just laughing to myself and thinking ~ "you sound like a customer" ..

Terry ;-)

masspector · March 2003

thanks for all the info and insights

dayarb · March 2003

I have a 2000 dodge ram 1500 conversion van that I would like to trade in. The dealer only wants to give me what the chassis trade-in would be without adding the conversion trade-in amount...help! Should I copy the suggested amount for trade-in off of this web site and take it to them???

zueslewis · March 2003

dayarb - the problem with a conversion is that although they hit for $10K for the conversion, the conversion portion is only worth $1,000-2,000 in the used market - many times, a used conversion van, from a customer happiness perspective, is much more trouble than it's worth.

Also, there is little or no trade information in NADA, KBB, etc, to give a used car manager any info - don't bother bringing in stuff from the conversion company's website.

A third problem is that several MAJOR conversion companies (Mark III, the biggest for years, Choo Choo Customs and several others) have gone out of business. If there's a problem with the conversion portion of the van (seats, rear air, TV/VCP, etc), the chances of getting original parts is slim.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - the best place to unload a conversion van is private market, NOT a dealer.

dayarb · March 2003

That's good to know (as painful as it might be!) Have you ever heard of the X-plan for Ford? I'm trying to decide if we can get a better deal on an expedition by using the x-plan price or by trying to bargain on our own.

zueslewis · March 2003

any retail deal can beat an x-plan price. With the x-plan, however you're eligible (it doesn't matter), you're still eligible for all rebates and finance incentives.

The x-plan price is usually below invoice minus holdback.

rroyce10 · March 2003

..... Give me all the info on the conversion, make, style, miles, hi top, low top, condition, options, area of the country and I can tell you what it's worth .. drop that over at "Real world trade-in values" ..

They still have a value, it may be a little ho-hum, but they are worth more than a couple of grand if they are nice and jam-up ..

Terry.

dayarb · March 2003

2000 Ram 1500, SWB, V6, 48k miles, white
Starcraft Imperial, hi-top, TV/VCP, cloth interior

Gently driven, interior is in good but not great condition.
Little Rock, AR
Thanks -D

thel · March 2003

I had someone coming in from out of town to look at my Tahoe I had on autotrader. This bloke had contacted me earlier about it and made an appointment to come and look at it during the week on his day off. Anyway, he calls the day before to say that he decided to buy a new one. OK no big deal.

A month or so later, I reduced the price. The same guy calls up but does not mention any of our previous conversations saying that "a friend told me that you had a Tahoe for sale". I said OK and he sets up another time to see the truck. Afterall, what do I care if he has money.

A couple of days before he is supposed to arrive, a local guy calls up and comes in to see it that day. He buys it for my full asking price.

Do I feel bad for the other guy? No, he could have bought it weeks ago but he he decided not to. Did I try to call him back? Would have but he didn't give me a number LOL. I did email using the address he gave me a long time ago tee, hee.

dayarb · March 2003

So does that mean that with the x-plan and , for example, the 2000$ incentive, I would be getting a better deal than bargaining? I wasn't clear on your answer. (I'm sure it's obvious that I'm a novice at this!)

masspector · March 2003

trust what zues is saying....What he is saying is that the x-plan price is below invoice and you get to take off the holdback and you get all of the incentives. The best you will probably be able to negotiate on your own is a little over invoice.

A little example, not exact numbers, zues correct me if I am wrong:

x-plan
Below Invoice price $34,500 - $1000 holdback - $2000 rebate = $31,500

reg buyer
Invoice price $35,000 (cannot take off holdback) - $2,000 rebate = $33,000

zueslewis · March 2003

dayarb · March 2003

Thanks zeus and masspector! Now I get what you're saying. I do have another question tho...how do I find out the holdback amount on the expedition I'm looking at?

zueslewis · March 2003

but so is the x-plan price.

im_brentwood · March 2003

X-Plan prices are fixed.. right there on the Invoice.

icvci · March 2003

Anyone know what the (I believe this is Ford's employee discount) A-plan price is for a loaded Escape?

Typically, how much lower is employee versus supplier pricing?

How about sales numbers? Is there anyway to find out what percentage of a vehicles total sales are attributed to employee or supplier incentives?

landru2 · March 2003

Are you guys sure that X-plan is below invoice? It's not according to my invoices.

tboner · March 2003

Maybe even the invoices are smaller in Canada, LOL????

TB
My dollar is bigger than your dollar, neeener neeener neeener

landru2 · March 2003

Actually, cars generally are priced less here, after conversion. I read some people were suing the major automakers for pricing lower in Canada than the U.S.

bolivar · March 2003

It's now A-Plan + 4%(of A-Plan) + $150 (I think).

The +$150 was just added a while back.

I'm not sure this final amount would be back of 'invoice'.

It is, of course, a 'no dicker' price, and Documentation Fee cannot be added to final price.

thel · March 2003

because of the punishing tax rates, so the automakers sell their cars cheaper over there or nobody could afford one

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