I went to the new car show last weekend, and we saw a 9-3 that the wife really liked. Options were launch pkg, touring pkg, heated seats. Total MSRP came to $31860. Car-man lists the following info on 3yr/45K leases. 50% residual. money factor .00057 (yes, three zeros). $2000 manufacturer to dealer cash. If you can swing an invoice minus $2000 deal, the lease payment works out to $366.32 plus tax.. this is with the acquisition fee rolled in.. only first payment and security deposit up front. Saab has 4yr/50K warranty, and 3yr/36K free maintenance. It would be pretty hard to buy a late model used Saab and sell it after 3 years and beat that deal.
...I was thinking about a used luxo/sport sedan about 4/5 wks ago and you (among others) gave me some great ideas from which to choose. Then I moved to looking at a new leftover '03 Max SE which could probably be had for not much more than a used veh as the '04's are being released now. But what I cant understand is how I now find myself looking at an '03 Saab lease...? I'm looking in the yellow pages for a good therapist now...
I agree with your assesment kyfdx...with a mf equal to 1.36% apr and $2000 cash, it's hard to overlook the 9-3. I guess I better go drive one before I get too ahead of myself. It will take quite a bit to steer me away from the Max though as far as driving dynamics.
Got to go...got an appt with an OCD disease spec...;-/
Vikd: to further confuse your shopping decision, the Forester XT is due in May or June. Not only does it have more cargo room than the WRX wagon, but also it comes with a 2.5l turbo and a whopping 235 lb-ft of torque at a low-low 3600 rpm.
I have 2 kids also and can't imagine going back to a sedan - I want that boxy cargo area for all the gear, plus the roof rack.
I need therapy, too. When I travel, I notice the overseas cars not offered here. I even took some pictures (of the cars!) last time. My wife just rolled her eyes.
Hmm, get a Chase Subaru credit card and you even get 3% rebates that you can use to pay for all your service.
as if I need more vehicles to ponder. Actually, as much of a car freakazoid as I am, I really only have two or three in mind:
1) '03 Max SE: The redesigned '04's are arriving any second so the leftover '03's are a great value right now; I am also eligible for the vpp purchase program (work for Nissan vendor) which would make arriving at a price completely hassle free. The Max is extremely quick, handles well and is roomy enough for my family of four. They have a good list of std features and the option pkgs include things that I would want.
2) 1 or 2 yr old 300M or Caddy STS. Great used car bargains because of the massive deprec. Both have plenty of power and room enough for the little vikd's.
...now this is where it gets weird...
3) '03 Saab 9-3: Huh? you say? HUGE subsidized leases right now and $2000 cash on already "distressed" merch. I do think the redesign is pretty sharp. It has plenty of room from what I've read and is reasonably zippy...though not quite a Max or an STS. Good warranty (though I wont need it all) and 3 years sched maint free of charge.
The week is still young; I'm sure I'll have changed my mind before I get a chance to drive the 9-3... oh boy, I better call my therapist!
It's a shame you are so far away. I saw your '03 Max in the showroom of Lou Fusz Nissan (in St. Louis) just yesterday. Titanium over frost leather SE. Don't give up on it just yet. Could be great deals on them in the next couple of months as more '04s get delivered.
I'm in the same boat. For some unknown reason I'm constantly drawn to a previously enjoyed 9-5. Although I prefer the wagon, sedans are very plentiful. An 00 will run low 20's and still have some warranty left.
Then I see Lincoln LS V-8's. 00 are running low 20's as well and IMHO a great vehicle.
Next are Volvo S80's. Again an 00 will be in the low 20's.
the 300M, STS and Lincoln LS were my primary targets.
I bought a PT Cruiser because it's cool, fast (turbo), and it proves to defense counsel that I'm not predjudiced against DaimlerChrysler - I do 20-25 reports a week against them.
I dont know about waiting another couple of months. The '03's are not exactly flying off of the lots around here but the nearest delarship lets go about 2 a week; they have 7 left (because I am OCD, I check daily). Who knows, I may get lucky and the Titanium will still be there in a few weeks when I am ready to buy...can't buy now, closing on house on the 28th. Actually, a Nissan dealership the next town over has a Sheer Silver with black leather that looks pretty sharp...keeping my eye on that one as well. I imagine a dealer trade from St Looie wouldnt be feasible...?
Robr2... Love the LS. Rented one for a week back in October. I forgot to mention that one above along with the 300M/STS. The only drawback to the LS is it's actually comparitively cramped in the back seat; got 2 little vikd's to worry about. Man this sucks...my last veh purchase wasnt this conflicted...damn this poor (or good depending on how you view it) used car market and these ridiculous lease incentives. Too many great cars/buys, too little time...
...20-25 reports a week and you still went DCC? My brother in law's dad (not sure what that makes him to me) actually has your exact veh...saw it last night; purple with chrome wheels. Nice looking, and sounding ride. Have fun with it. Is it equipped to auto cross yet? I do agree with all three of your listed vehicles above (I should, you suggested them) but there are some outstanding new car buys/leases right now. I'm totally up in the air on which direction to go, and on hold to purchase until the house is closed. Only two more weeks of obsessing and this horrible nightmare may finally be over. Oh wait...but then I'll actually have to purchase it... ;-/ ...calling the therapist back for the third time...
Any of the ones I listed can be a little cramped in back. The little robr2's are in booster/car seats so backseat room isn't my main concern. Besides, in my teens, my Dad used to shove my brother and I into the back of a Chevy Vega and Pontiac Sunbird for 2 hour drives to see relatives.
I'm hoping to go the 2-3 YO used entry/luxury car route about every 4 years if I can.
How dare you! Mine's all silver and will be getting Motegi MR7 Anthracite wheels and Kumho 712 tires.
In reference to the DCC purchase, with the exception of Kia and Hyundai, I still have a firm belief that all vehicles from a given manufacturer aren't bad, just some of them.
Of course, I'll be eating my words soon as next week, the PT GT will go in for it's third visit for a severe vibration while driving and its second for a MAP sensor (check engine light activated) replacement. And it only has 3,300 miles........
How bad are the Grand Cherokees these days? I've had 2 of them and one was good (1998) and the other was so-so(1994), then again it was roughed up by its prev owner. Just curious since a friend of mine asked and is looking at an 03 or 04.
Also, another stupid question for anyone who might know......what is the rule of 78ths? I'm familiar with a simple interest contract, but this rule of 78ths is new to me. I'm just wondering since its in the contract on our truck loan and we are planning on paying the truck off 17 months early.
were bad on transmissions from '94-98, then backed off a little with the new body style. Most of the new style GCs I see have problems with the engine management systems and electrical systems. I see a few, but not too many.
The "Rule of 78s" is an old school theory where you pay the majority of the interest on a loan up front, leaving the principle in the wind so the bank gets most of their money first.
That concept was outlawed when simple interst contracts were mandated for automotive loans many years back. With your simple interest contract, there's usually no penalty for early payment or payoff and you only pay interest on what remains in principle. For instance, if you pay an extra $50 towards your loan, it goes to the principle, not interest. Much better for consumers all the way around.
I'm just glad I wasn't in the car business when the 78 deal was around.
In substance, it goes like this: You take out $10k for 60 months at 6% and wind up with payments of $200/month (rough figures) for a lump sum to pay back of $12,000.
Under simple interest rules, your first payment is $200, of which $10,000 * 0.06 / 12 =$50 is interest. Just like your mortgage payments; you can work it out on the back of an envelope.
Under rule of 78s, you first pay off the $2,000 in interest, THEN you pay off the $10,000 principal. This is not a problem if you carry the loan through to the end. But if you pay it off early, it really doesn't get you much of anything, because the interest is already paid and you're basically paying off a 0% interest loan at that point.
Put another way, you've paid six year's worth of interest after the first year or two. Congratulations.
Up to here, I'm sure of what I'm talking about. The following is a little shaky: The interest is divided into 78 equal parts. The first month, you pay 12 parts of that interest; the second month, 11 parts, and so forth, until you've paid all the interest in the first year.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here... I also don't think this can work if the interest rate exceeds a certain percentage, because the interest won't "fit" the payment under this scheme.
12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1=78 (check) $2000/78 = $25.64; *12 = $308, so it won't "fit" the formula... but you get the idea.
I personally think it's a stupid practice, a gimmick at best. It's illegal in quite a few states; MI for one. I really despise this sort of thing...
Didn't know what that was when I read about it in the contract on our truck. Doesn't surprise me that its used in this case since its a small car lot and their own finance company. I don't care since its getting reported to the credit bureaus and is re-establishing our credit. Its a small loan of $6300 and the interest is like $1750 (22.95%), we will still pay it off in December.
Gotta buy a family vehicle, the truck is too hard to get groceries with (bought it for hubby) and the Escort is just plain small and we don't drive it to town because it has no seatbelts in the front. Way I see it we aren't really buying a truck, we are buying back our credit.
We talked to the lady who runs the finance company (she did our loan papers and approved us) and she said they do report and will be a credit reference for us if we need them to be. That kind of thier claim to fame, they help people get back on their feet. Really nice place too.
I've looked at about 2,500 cases in two years and I've written reports in 2,198 of them.
576 have been Kia and Hyundai cases. The other cases have been divided across all lines of Chrysler (C/P/D/J), all lines of Ford (F/L/M/Rover/Jaguar), all lines of GM (Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, Cadillac, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Saturn) and the other imports.
Consider the production numbers, comparing Kia/Hyundai to all the production numbers of ALL domestics and the Japanese imports.
That's why I can't understand the flaming arguments I see about Kia and Hyundai in those boards.
Two other things to consider: 1) SAAB has been known to negotiate on the end-of-lease price (you can buy it for less than the residual), and 2) the 9-3 Arc and Vector should be out soon....IMHO, a better deal than linear + launch. 210 HP, plus all the bells and wistles.
The main drawback to that Saab is the low pressure turbo 170HP engine vs. the 210HP of the Arc or Vector. But, looking at the sticker prices of those, you won't be within $100/month of the lease deal on the Linear. (guessing).
the Maxima with 255 hp, preferably with a 6-speed, would outweigh anything in that category.
vikd - call Lou Fusz in St Louis, I'll meet you there, we'll have a Bud/Bud Light and you can drive that Max with your favorite color back to Beaverton - nice 2-3 day road trip to break it in.
Though I did not have a chance to personally use zues's experience and recommendations, I see that they are a great resource to car buyers on Edmunds. I will definitely pass the Hyundai stats to friends who are interested in a new Elantra GT - they want a small wagon or hatchback, and certainly can afford a more expensive car (they are trying to replace - and wean themselves off - their '91 Prizm hatchback).
I think that a new thread in this forum, "Real-world reliability stats" or some such, would be very useful. It can of course become a huge time drain for zues as he is nice enough to answer many questions here quickly. Another danger is that the thread will be "polluted" by remarks from people with 1 or 2 data points.
Of course I meant the same basic type of veh...Silver with anthracite wheels is more my cup of tea as well. But, since the PT is kind of a "throwback" veh, some people like to get them in ridiculous circus colors; my grandfather-in-law being one of them...to each his own I guess. Third visit to the dealer for two reoccuring problems???!!! Yeeeowch! You may be testifying in your own lemon case...sorry, had to throw that in, I know you like that GT. The hp advantage of the Max is certainly a consideration, especially when mated to the 6 spd man. There is only one 6 spd left in the Portland metro and it just so happens to be at B*town Nissan. But alas, it is Merlot with Frost cloth and a slider as the only other option; not a great combo at least for me. Yup, a roadie from St Looie in a 255 hp 6 spd Max would be a pretty darn enjoyable break in session! Hey scanty, want to head over to Lou Fusz, lick the handle of that Titanium and wait for Zues and I to show up with a half rack?? Manamal/kyfdx- any idea when those Arcs and Vectors will be released? That would be a compelling choice assuming there will still be agressive lease deals/cash on those things...
hackin' on ya. I looked at several colors, but since the car lives outside for the time being, I chose silver instead of the darker colors.
I wouldn't hesitate for a second to file a lemon law case - that's what the law is there for. I work for the firm that handles them - that would be like owning your own tailor shop and dressing in rags if I didn't follow the law that we pursue.
I have two other guys who would be my experts in the case - I can't testify as the plaintiff AND the expert.
"Lick the handle" !! Love it - I love that Jetta commercial.
***"Lick the handle" !! Love it - I love that Jetta commercial.***
Hehehe......me too. About how I was when, in 2001, I found the *only* red 01 Jetta 1.8T 5-speed on the dealer's lot. I wanted it soooo bad. I had them hide it for me until I could get hubby back there to buy it. Helps to have friends in high places at a dealership.
I want another Jetta, but I got a warning yesterday driving my 94 Escort LX. Hubby is starting to back down on his "yes you can have a Jetta", its turning into more like "yes, you are getting an SUV".
He loved our Jeeps and wants another, great off road vehicles. *zipping lips about what we did to my 98 Jeep right before it was repoed*
...I know you was just playin'. Good tailor shop analogy, btw. Hope that GT mellows out for ya.
TB in the mix now too huh?...Scanty, better pick up another half rack! Come the 28th, I'll even have a couple spare bedrooms where you gents could relax before heading back east. Mi casa es su casa!
Uh oh Zues...you got folks now lobbying for a Zues only thread...
When I saw that Max on Monday, my first thought was to give it a lick.
I hope this doesn't disappoint, but it's a slushbox, not a 6-speed.
I can vouch for both the car and the drive. A close friend of mine bought a 2002 SE with the 6MT. Amazingly fast (0-60 in about 6 flat) and it rides like a dream.
As far as the drive goes, I helped another friend move from STL to Seattle in the fall of 2000. We took a week off, rented a U-Haul and a trailer for his Explorer, and took the scenic route. Highlights of the trip: Corn Palace, Badlands, Wall Drug, Mt. Rushmore, Sitting Bull, Devil's Tower, Little Bighorn, Yellowstone, Old Faithful, and Grand Teton. I can only imagine how great a trip like that would be in the Max.
Here's an offer: Go ahead and buy it, and TB and I will drive it out there for you!
So, with the new(er) Lemon Laws, how do the dealerships feel about the customers who use that? I just started the process with my '01 STS and, even though they have been pretty good until this latest incident, they have started to give me the old "could not duplicate problem" even though it's on it's second power steering pump (should be on it's third since that one has failed (intermittently) without them replacing it.).
I don't want to break my relationship with them as I may get a CTS to replace it.
Another Lemon Law question, have you seen a lot of 00-03 MPV's pop up for the sulfur smell in the passenger cabin? I'm seeing that thread recurrent on some of the MPV discussion boards here, but can't get a handle on it. We just adopted a new little girl, and need to move up to a mini-van.
...I would prefer the 6 spd but the slushbox is not at all bad; I have driven both and there is not too much difference.
That's a tempting offer. I just might pursue that if I decide on the Max and the Titanium in my town gets sold before I am ready to buy. Of course the "licked" Titanium in St Looie will also have to still be available...you would keep it under 55 mph right? (said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)... Or, if you wanted to extend the trip a few days, you could go the southerly route and make a pit stop in Vegas... Uhhh, on second thought...
BTW...what would be your fee? I can offer an amazing Lasagna dinner (wifes recipe) upon arrival and a free bed. I assume you'll also want all adult beverages covered and any losses incurred at the tables absorbed...?
they don't want pressure from their warranty reps, so they usually distance themselves from you - the thing is, no lemon law or breach of warranty complaint, suit, whatever deals with dealer actions.
prodigal - not many MPVs at all, and the sulphur smell happens in all kinds of vehicles - the cause is debatable between manufacturers and mechanics.
vikd - whatchu talkin' 'bout willis? "zues only thread"??
It only hit you when you pay it off early. I think it was around 1985, I paid a loan off after about 36 months of a 60 month loan. I think my payoff was about $300 higher than if it was simple interest... of course, this was on only a $6000 loan. I'm glad those days are over.
"I think that a new thread in this forum, "Real-world reliability stats" or some such, would be very useful. It can of course become a huge time drain for zues as he is nice enough to answer many questions here quickly. Another danger is that the thread will be "polluted" by remarks from people with 1 or 2 data points."
Since you seem to have the necessary knowledge relevant to these types of issues here, it seems as though it would indeed be almost a "Zues only" thread.
Scanty-- Nice veh. I can pick the exact same veh up 3 miles down the street from my house if it will just last as long as I need to wait. That really the only barrier here, other than the fact that I cant find a 6 spd anywhere in Portland metro in the color/options I want.
For some reason, I also still have a strange twitching feeling in the back of my head...wait, is that a Saab 9-3 Linear/Launch manual I feel? Nawww, couldnt be...but if the deal is right...?
this may be a foolish question, however have you eliminated the tires as a source of the vibration. I don't know what tires your GT came with, the 2001-2's came with Goodyear Eagle LS tires. A number of owners had problems with them, once the tires were replaced (by the tire company) the problems went away.
There are only two Saab dealerships in P*town metro and I doubt even they will have an '02 Viggen. It also wouldnt have the heavily subsidized lease deals GM is offering right now on the 9-3. This seems to be a rare case when buying used would be more expensive than leasing new (on a short term monthly basis anyway). I'll just have to see whats available 2-3 wks down the road...TB and scanty may just have to polish off those gas cards for the St Looie roadie. Time may also be on my side though as waiting for the 9-3 Arcs and Vectors could prove an interesting comparisons. Still...255 vs 210 hp. Two different animals I know but it's hard to ignore the Max's power.
Regards... Vikd In STILL rainy (but warm) Beaverton
I've driven an "underpowered" 2.5L 2000 Mazda MPV loaded with family and car carrier up Monteagle at nearly triple digit speeds.
Of course, we'll break it in properly for the first day, two lane roads to go through towns to change speeds and such. After 1000 miles, we'll start to explore the redline a bit more but not continously.
Check oil and other fluids at every stop, and so forth.
Not abuse, just spirited driving, so no neutral drops or "Rockfords"
I have Goodyear GS-As, but as everyone knows, I HATE OEM tires - all of them. Next week, they're going to load-force balance them (on a dyno-style balancer) and that may do it. If not, I'll ask the service manager to replace them. This has been going on since delivery, so it isn't like it's a maintenance or curbing issue - the thing has 3K on it!
Ugh......Kia. I sold them for a few months, never could sell one and feel good about it. I sold a Sephia to a guy who brought it back 4 days later and begged us to take it back. Sold a Sportage to my high school history teacher, they loved it and to this day are driving it and have had no trouble with it.
I know the new SUV caught my eye, but its too small for anything that would do me any good.
Comments
It would be pretty hard to buy a late model used Saab and sell it after 3 years and beat that deal.
Hope this helps,
thanks,
kyfdx
P.S. invoice is $29717
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I agree with your assesment kyfdx...with a mf equal to 1.36% apr and $2000 cash, it's hard to overlook the 9-3. I guess I better go drive one before I get too ahead of myself. It will take quite a bit to steer me away from the Max though as far as driving dynamics.
Got to go...got an appt with an OCD disease spec...;-/
Regards... Vikd
I have 2 kids also and can't imagine going back to a sedan - I want that boxy cargo area for all the gear, plus the roof rack.
I need therapy, too. When I travel, I notice the overseas cars not offered here. I even took some pictures (of the cars!) last time. My wife just rolled her eyes.
Hmm, get a Chase Subaru credit card and you even get 3% rebates that you can use to pay for all your service.
-juice
Actually, as much of a car freakazoid as I am, I really only have two or three in mind:
1) '03 Max SE: The redesigned '04's are arriving any second so the leftover '03's are a great value right now; I am also eligible for the vpp purchase program (work for Nissan vendor) which would make arriving at a price completely hassle free. The Max is extremely quick, handles well and is roomy enough for my family of four. They have a good list of std features and the option pkgs include things that I would want.
2) 1 or 2 yr old 300M or Caddy STS. Great used car bargains because of the massive deprec. Both have plenty of power and room enough for the little vikd's.
...now this is where it gets weird...
3) '03 Saab 9-3: Huh? you say? HUGE subsidized leases right now and $2000 cash on already "distressed" merch. I do think the redesign is pretty sharp. It has plenty of room from what I've read and is reasonably zippy...though not quite a Max or an STS. Good warranty (though I wont need it all) and 3 years sched maint free of charge.
The week is still young; I'm sure I'll have changed my mind before I get a chance to drive the 9-3... oh boy, I better call my therapist!
Regards... Vikd
I say hit an auto show soon, check out the interiors with your family and pick a few that work for you, maybe 2-3 choices.
Then test drive those three and buy the one that brings the biggest smile to your face.
-juice
Then I see Lincoln LS V-8's. 00 are running low 20's as well and IMHO a great vehicle.
Next are Volvo S80's. Again an 00 will be in the low 20's.
Now I'm waiting on the TSX.
Decisions decisions.
I bought a PT Cruiser because it's cool, fast (turbo), and it proves to defense counsel that I'm not predjudiced against DaimlerChrysler - I do 20-25 reports a week against them.
Robr2... Love the LS. Rented one for a week back in October. I forgot to mention that one above along with the 300M/STS. The only drawback to the LS is it's actually comparitively cramped in the back seat; got 2 little vikd's to worry about.
Man this sucks...my last veh purchase wasnt this conflicted...damn this poor (or good depending on how you view it) used car market and these ridiculous lease incentives.
Too many great cars/buys, too little time...
Regards... Vikd
I do agree with all three of your listed vehicles above (I should, you suggested them) but there are some outstanding new car buys/leases right now. I'm totally up in the air on which direction to go, and on hold to purchase until the house is closed. Only two more weeks of obsessing and this horrible nightmare may finally be over. Oh wait...but then I'll actually have to purchase it... ;-/ ...calling the therapist back for the third time...
Have a good evening gents...
Regards... Vikd
I'm hoping to go the 2-3 YO used entry/luxury car route about every 4 years if I can.
In reference to the DCC purchase, with the exception of Kia and Hyundai, I still have a firm belief that all vehicles from a given manufacturer aren't bad, just some of them.
Of course, I'll be eating my words soon as next week, the PT GT will go in for it's third visit for a severe vibration while driving and its second for a MAP sensor (check engine light activated) replacement. And it only has 3,300 miles........
Also, another stupid question for anyone who might know......what is the rule of 78ths? I'm familiar with a simple interest contract, but this rule of 78ths is new to me. I'm just wondering since its in the contract on our truck loan and we are planning on paying the truck off 17 months early.
The "Rule of 78s" is an old school theory where you pay the majority of the interest on a loan up front, leaving the principle in the wind so the bank gets most of their money first.
That concept was outlawed when simple interst contracts were mandated for automotive loans many years back. With your simple interest contract, there's usually no penalty for early payment or payoff and you only pay interest on what remains in principle. For instance, if you pay an extra $50 towards your loan, it goes to the principle, not interest. Much better for consumers all the way around.
I'm just glad I wasn't in the car business when the 78 deal was around.
Under simple interest rules, your first payment is $200, of which $10,000 * 0.06 / 12 =$50 is interest. Just like your mortgage payments; you can work it out on the back of an envelope.
Under rule of 78s, you first pay off the $2,000 in interest, THEN you pay off the $10,000 principal. This is not a problem if you carry the loan through to the end. But if you pay it off early, it really doesn't get you much of anything, because the interest is already paid and you're basically paying off a 0% interest loan at that point.
Put another way, you've paid six year's worth of interest after the first year or two. Congratulations.
Up to here, I'm sure of what I'm talking about. The following is a little shaky: The interest is divided into 78 equal parts. The first month, you pay 12 parts of that interest; the second month, 11 parts, and so forth, until you've paid all the interest in the first year.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here... I also don't think this can work if the interest rate exceeds a certain percentage, because the interest won't "fit" the payment under this scheme.
12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1=78 (check)
$2000/78 = $25.64; *12 = $308, so it won't "fit" the formula... but you get the idea.
I personally think it's a stupid practice, a gimmick at best. It's illegal in quite a few states; MI for one. I really despise this sort of thing...
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
I've only heard about the system - I've never seen it in play at all, in 4 states, in 11 years of car business association.
Gotta buy a family vehicle, the truck is too hard to get groceries with (bought it for hubby) and the Escort is just plain small and we don't drive it to town because it has no seatbelts in the front. Way I see it we aren't really buying a truck, we are buying back our credit.
I'd heard of it, but didn't know what it was or why it was called that.
Thank you!
-ss4
576 have been Kia and Hyundai cases. The other cases have been divided across all lines of Chrysler (C/P/D/J), all lines of Ford (F/L/M/Rover/Jaguar), all lines of GM (Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, Cadillac, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Saturn) and the other imports.
Consider the production numbers, comparing Kia/Hyundai to all the production numbers of ALL domestics and the Japanese imports.
That's why I can't understand the flaming arguments I see about Kia and Hyundai in those boards.
kydfx
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vikd - call Lou Fusz in St Louis, I'll meet you there, we'll have a Bud/Bud Light and you can drive that Max with your favorite color back to Beaverton - nice 2-3 day road trip to break it in.
I think that a new thread in this forum, "Real-world reliability stats" or some such, would be very useful. It can of course become a huge time drain for zues as he is nice enough to answer many questions here quickly. Another danger is that the thread will be "polluted" by remarks from people with 1 or 2 data points.
Anyway, thanks again, zues.
Third visit to the dealer for two reoccuring problems???!!! Yeeeowch! You may be testifying in your own lemon case...sorry, had to throw that in, I know you like that GT.
The hp advantage of the Max is certainly a consideration, especially when mated to the 6 spd man. There is only one 6 spd left in the Portland metro and it just so happens to be at B*town Nissan. But alas, it is Merlot with Frost cloth and a slider as the only other option; not a great combo at least for me.
Yup, a roadie from St Looie in a 255 hp 6 spd Max would be a pretty darn enjoyable break in session! Hey scanty, want to head over to Lou Fusz, lick the handle of that Titanium and wait for Zues and I to show up with a half rack??
Manamal/kyfdx- any idea when those Arcs and Vectors will be released? That would be a compelling choice assuming there will still be agressive lease deals/cash on those things...
Regards... Vikd
TB
In St. Louieeee
I wouldn't hesitate for a second to file a lemon law case - that's what the law is there for. I work for the firm that handles them - that would be like owning your own tailor shop and dressing in rags if I didn't follow the law that we pursue.
I have two other guys who would be my experts in the case - I can't testify as the plaintiff AND the expert.
"Lick the handle" !! Love it - I love that Jetta commercial.
asafonov - thanks for the nice remarks.
Hehehe......me too. About how I was when, in 2001, I found the *only* red 01 Jetta 1.8T 5-speed on the dealer's lot. I wanted it soooo bad. I had them hide it for me until I could get hubby back there to buy it. Helps to have friends in high places at a dealership.
I want another Jetta, but I got a warning yesterday driving my 94 Escort LX. Hubby is starting to back down on his "yes you can have a Jetta", its turning into more like "yes, you are getting an SUV".
He loved our Jeeps and wants another, great off road vehicles. *zipping lips about what we did to my 98 Jeep right before it was repoed*
TB in the mix now too huh?...Scanty, better pick up another half rack! Come the 28th, I'll even have a couple spare bedrooms where you gents could relax before heading back east. Mi casa es su casa!
Uh oh Zues...you got folks now lobbying for a Zues only thread...
Regards... Vikd
In rainy (but warm) Beaverton
If the total interest for the loan is $2,000:
The interest for the 1st month will be (60/1830) * $2,000 = $65.57.
The interest for the 2nd month will be (59/1830) * $2,000 = $64.48.
The interest for the 60th (last) month will be (1/1830) * $2,000 = $1.09.
Even though the interest is front-loaded more than a simple interest loan would be, it is not as horrible as most people think.
I hope this doesn't disappoint, but it's a slushbox, not a 6-speed.
I can vouch for both the car and the drive. A close friend of mine bought a 2002 SE with the 6MT. Amazingly fast (0-60 in about 6 flat) and it rides like a dream.
As far as the drive goes, I helped another friend move from STL to Seattle in the fall of 2000. We took a week off, rented a U-Haul and a trailer for his Explorer, and took the scenic route. Highlights of the trip: Corn Palace, Badlands, Wall Drug, Mt. Rushmore, Sitting Bull, Devil's Tower, Little Bighorn, Yellowstone, Old Faithful, and Grand Teton. I can only imagine how great a trip like that would be in the Max.
Here's an offer: Go ahead and buy it, and TB and I will drive it out there for you!
I don't want to break my relationship with them as I may get a CTS to replace it.
Any thoughts?
That's a tempting offer. I just might pursue that if I decide on the Max and the Titanium in my town gets sold before I am ready to buy. Of course the "licked" Titanium in St Looie will also have to still be available...you would keep it under 55 mph right? (said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)... Or, if you wanted to extend the trip a few days, you could go the southerly route and make a pit stop in Vegas... Uhhh, on second thought...
BTW...what would be your fee? I can offer an amazing Lasagna dinner (wifes recipe) upon arrival and a free bed. I assume you'll also want all adult beverages covered and any losses incurred at the tables absorbed...?
Regards... Vikd
prodigal - not many MPVs at all, and the sulphur smell happens in all kinds of vehicles - the cause is debatable between manufacturers and mechanics.
vikd - whatchu talkin' 'bout willis? "zues only thread"??
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kyfdx
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You can check it out here:
http://www.fusz.com/
Have to do a little navigating - it won't link directly.
A quote from a different poster:
"I think that a new thread in this forum, "Real-world reliability stats" or some such, would be very useful. It can of course become a huge time drain for zues as he is nice enough to answer many questions here quickly. Another danger is that the thread will be "polluted" by remarks from people with 1 or 2 data points."
Since you seem to have the necessary knowledge relevant to these types of issues here, it seems as though it would indeed be almost a "Zues only" thread.
Scanty-- Nice veh. I can pick the exact same veh up 3 miles down the street from my house if it will just last as long as I need to wait. That really the only barrier here, other than the fact that I cant find a 6 spd anywhere in Portland metro in the color/options I want.
For some reason, I also still have a strange twitching feeling in the back of my head...wait, is that a Saab 9-3 Linear/Launch manual I feel? Nawww, couldnt be...but if the deal is right...?
Man, I need help!!
Regards... Vikd
I'll just have to see whats available 2-3 wks down the road...TB and scanty may just have to polish off those gas cards for the St Looie roadie. Time may also be on my side though as waiting for the 9-3 Arcs and Vectors could prove an interesting comparisons. Still...255 vs 210 hp. Two different animals I know but it's hard to ignore the Max's power.
Regards... Vikd
In STILL rainy (but warm) Beaverton
Of course, we'll break it in properly for the first day, two lane roads to go through towns to change speeds and such. After 1000 miles, we'll start to explore the redline a bit more but not continously.
Check oil and other fluids at every stop, and so forth.
Not abuse, just spirited driving, so no neutral drops or "Rockfords"
TB
E-mail me and I'll give you a background on that.
I know the new SUV caught my eye, but its too small for anything that would do me any good.