It's all about expectation setting. I work in a service business and the satisfaction of the client is all about what actually happens versus what they expected to happen.
If they had been honest about how long it would take to look at the car, and how much it would cost there would have been no issue.
They set the expectation (almost apologetically) of an appointment being required to assure that I would get the "requisite attention".
They set the expectation of looking at the car on Tues.
Check the post again, Zeus, I did not threaten a bad survey because of pine needles - rather, it was because they had not yet looked at the car. I would only find out that it was pine needles after the fact.
And, at the point of it actually costing money - I was not opposed to paying - believe me, I would have paid more than the quoted amount not to have the whole experience.
Oh, and by the way - Martin Honda and Martin Volvo and Manhattan Me/Be do not require or take appointments - so before you hip me up to how auto service works in the big city - give me some credit for maybe knowing a bit about it.
Zues, I will chalk up to the tone of your to the fact that it can't be any picnic to be in the auto business. I guess there is a degree of responsibility on both side of the equation for the current climate between dealer and customer.
I just wish every customer would not be subject to the baggage of past bad experiences in every new interaction with sales or service personnel.
We aren't all monsters, just please give us the benefit of the doubt.
and I don't think anyone's a "victim", except when true crime is involved.
Sorry - I simply think it was mishandled, perhaps by both sides, but once the survey card was played, there's no place to go that could make anyone happy. The best thing to do is cut it loose, which is exactly what was done.
Consider yourself lucky not ever needing an appointment.
Here in Boston, the norm is for appointments. There was one dealer I did use that did not require them. In that case, it was like standing in line for concert tickets. They did repairs in the order that people arrived. You could leave your car with no guarantee that it would be looked at that day, the next day or the day after that. Take your car home, you had to come back and start all over again.
Many a day I was at the dealer at 5AM securing a position in line.
There is one dealer now that I've tried to use that takes appointments to the extreme for simple oil changes. "OK we can get you in at 2:20 PM on Tuesday. Great - I'll drop it off in the morning and pick it up that night. No sir you don't need to do that, come in at 2:20 and we'll take care of it right then. Well I really can't leave work to be here at exactly 2:20 - I'll leave it and you can do it at 2:20. No sir, please arrive at 2:20 for your appointment. I really can't leave it? No sir, please come at 2:20. I guess we better cancel then."
I have to sympathize with lanzz. It seems that some dealerships think that we don't need our cars for long periods of time. If that was the case, why would we buy them in the first place?
I certainly couldn't give up my car for several days at a time, and I'm guessing neither could lanzz. To me, an appointment is more than "just getting in the door". If you have a well run dealership, you should know and should communicate a realistic expectation of when the problem will be investigated. What's the point of making appointments for cars you can't work on? To fill up a parking lot?
So when lanzz isn't making any progress, what card should he play? Maybe a better move would have been to contact the service manager, but that too would have pissed off the service writer. So how does a customer win in this situation? Just wait and wait and wait?
Like bigorange, I'm loving the Infiniti way. Since they give me a car whenever I'm in for service, I really don't care when they get to mine--I'm putting miles on their car while they've got mine. I'm sure their service staff live less-stressful lives as a result, and their customers are very happy.
I sympathize with Lanzz as well.The entire purpose of making an appointment is to avoid what he went through.It is ,IMHO, very rude of the dealer to keep his car for a day and a half and not even look at it.
I live in a very large city and both my local high-volume Ford and Lexus service depts require appointments although the Ford guys have a "non-appointment" traffic lane where you take your chances on getting it done that day.
With appointments, Ford schedules you to arrive in 10-min intervals and if you're real late they request that you use the non-appt lane. Seems reasonable. For their scheduled clients, they absolutely get the diagnostic done that day and if parts need to be ordered they notify you in writing and via phone when they arrive and set-up the installation - which gets done on the scheduled day. No free loaners but this is Ford and none were ever promised.
Lexus provides loaners for our RX or LS if its a warranty issue or, if it's non-warranty, if it's a big ticket or overnight deal. Seems like a reasonable policy.
The NYC Chevy service dept should not have scheduled Ed's visit if they were too booked up to even diagnose the problem. Not saying they had to fix it that day, depending on what they found.
...but some kind of card HAD to be dealt. The treatment lanzz received was ludicrous. He had an appointment so the car should have been at least looked at sometime within a day and a half! Especially since it took merely 15 min to diagnose and resolve the problem...! I don't pretend to be an apologist for either side of the equation but there is no excuse for how this simple situation was mishandled. Thats what really strikes me is how simple this thing could have been yet it was turned in to a large ordeal. Anyone ever hear of inspecting what you expect? Expectations looked to be clearly laid out and Lanzz was simply following up... Even though they may not want it, this service dept also doesnt deserve any more of his continued business.
I needed to have the AC looked at on my car two summers ago. I called the dealer, and was told I had to wait a week before I could bring it in.
I asked how long it would take them and they said a day or two at most. And it did. I didn't have a problem, and this was a high volume dealership in Northern NJ, in the NYC Metro area.
When I make an appointment, it isn't to get my foot in the door, it is with a reasonable expectation that they will look at the car that day. Do you make a Dr's appointment to get your foot in the waiting room, or do you have a reasonable expectation of being attended to that day?
I think that if a customer makes an appointment, and the dealer then can't look at the car for a day or two, it is at least common courtesy to inform the customer of the delay.
Suppose I call Joe's Garage and he tells me to bring my car in the next morning. When I get there, he tells me there has been an unexpected problem and he can't look at the car today. I can appreciate and respect that. I think 99% of all customers would, and would be understanding.
Why tell a customer, "An appointment gets you in the door, not a guarantee of service"? I think anyone who heard would be justifiably upset.
Down here in the immediate South Florida area, we just drive into the service line and takes our chances. I always ask if the car will be looked at that day, if not, I leave. Personally, no dealership has the right to be rude, no matter what! As a worker in the service industry, I give my customers the respect and the honesty they deserve whenever possible. If I have a bad day, it's not there problem and they don't want or need to deal with it! Zues, not to be disrespectful, but your attitude seems to be,"I'm outta here" when a few people don't agree with your point of view, no matter what the issue. Just an observation from being here in Townhall and reading your many posts. I personally don't know squat about the automotive industry but you seem to have a slight attitude when anyone has questions or questions you about "what we don't know". Life's to short for us not to be civil and respectful to each other folks. Have a great day all! (Getting off my soapbox now)
"Many of you are so far off as to your assumptions of how a service department works, it's crazy"
To me, this is an example of exactly what is wrong with most service businesses today. The customer is somehow supposed to know how the business works and is supposed to adapt themselves to fit the needs of that business. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Some service facilities have actually figured this out and have excellent relationships with their customers while still managing to make money. I, for one, have definitely become an Infiniti convert. The way that company has handled me as a customer who didn't even buy their car from one of their dealers (it was used) has definitely had an impact on me. As long as they continue with their current business practices, I'll be a a loyal customer of theirs.
Those of us not in the car business may not know ALL the facts about how the business is run but your misrepresentation of the facts that we do know makes it difficult for us to believe the other statements that you make. Don't you think we that have taken our cars to many service departments that don't require appointments KNOW that your statement of "appointments are mandatory in any service department - period." is just not true. Why then should we believe anything else you have said?
Let's say you have a car. The master cylinder starts to go. You take it into the nearest dealership without an appointment. If you wait for an appointment, you will have to wait days. What are you supposed to do in the meantime?
The 2 experiences I posted are the extremes of what I've experienced wrt appointments. Generally, my experiences have been good at service departments based on my loyalty. If there is going to be a problem getting to the vehicle, they call me, let me know, and ask what they can do to alleviate any problems with a loaner, free wash, et al.
It seems that when a dealer in this area tells you to come in the next day, it is usually as a favor. They are squeezing you in and typically tell you upfront that is the case.
I agree that throwing the CSI survey in the service writer's face is threatening. IMHO, it says I'm going to hurt you directly in the wallet. Once the service writer heard that, he could move heaven and earth and the customer wasn't going to be happy. AFAIK, the seller is allowed to fire a customer if he wants to.
Heck, I've been almost fired as a customer. After dealing with the get in line at 5AM place, I decided to try another dealer when the steering rack and electrical system went on my Dodge Daytona at 34K. Once the regional rep had to get involved, the service manager said to me: "I should have refused to look at your car as soon as I saw where you had taken it before. We're always having to fix their mistakes and people are already mad at us before they walk in the door."
a master cylinder, engine, transmission, etc are all major safety and reliability factors and I've always made total exceptions when your brakes are failing or your transmission goes away - there are also different technicians working on those major issues.
Those "heavy line" techs don't have to deal with the smaller complaints (like the a/c issue that started this discussion). Many of the smaller complaint guys are incredibly overloaded by some of the most aggressive customers with the least important complaints, like dash rattles, squeaks, etc.
I've seen 20-line ROs just on squeaks and rattles. While those items should be addressed, in either warranty or maintenance, they don't keep you from driving your car. Your brakes, engine or transmission are vastly more important and would be treated so in most places.
"Once the regional rep had to get involved, the service manager said to me: "I should have refused to look at your car as soon as I saw where you had taken it before. We're always having to fix their mistakes and people are already mad at us before they walk in the door."
There are many facets that most consumers don't consider.
The gist of it is: Guy mods his WRX with massive boost and blows his engine during a street race. Tries to find someone to fix his car under warranty. Other WRX owners are incensed and rat on him to Subaru of America and all the dealers in his area, ensuring that he will not get service anywhere.
Did you ever end up getting an 03 Maxima? I took delivery of one 3 weeks ago, and I can tell this is a car I will own until the wheels fall off. Every time I go to drive it, I'm just as excited as when I first drove it off the dealer's lot.
IF you're curious, mine is a Grey Lustre SE, auto (6 spd is nice for a weekend car, but for a daily driver no thanks!), black cloth, Titanium pkg, sunroof, and "mud guards" or whatever Nissan calls them. I was kind of torn on the leather - while it would have been nice, leather automatically adds another $2k to the OTD price. No thanks.
afty: I was actually reading that exact story yesterday. I'm completely with the Subaru guys who turned him in; if you mod your engine, you pay when it breaks. It's ridiculous to expect Subaru to pay out when people do stupid things to their products! What that kid tried to do was fraud, plain and simple.
"The car was under warranty, and I was having trouble with the A/C, where it dripped water into the interior whenever it was on. It made a very large puddle of water inside the car every time the A/C was used. Also asked to have a burned out brake light be replaced.
1) Went to have car serviced on Mon 9/9/02, was told to come back with an appointment so I could get the "proper treatment" Said ok, and called to make an appointment for the following day. (other Manhattan dealerships do not take or require appointments, so I figured I would take a chance on this...)
2) Took the car in on Tues 9/10/02 and dropped it off at 8:30am. Was told that they might not get to the car until afternoon, so call then for an update.
3) Called at 1:30pm, was told car had not been looked at yet. Told to call back at 4:30pm.
4) Called at 4:30pm, told the car had not been looked at yet. Told to call back tomorrow.
5) Called at noon on Weds 9/11/02, was told the car had not been looked at yet. At this point, they had the car for a day and a half, with no diagnosis yet. So I asked when the service advisor thought they would be able to look at the car. He replied " I don't know, we are backed up." So I said "Then why I did I need to make an appointment?" I was told "An appointment gets you in the door, not a guarantee of service.""
OK, zues and others, what should a considerate car-owner do at this point? What would be reasonable and effective?
...I'm still playing the waiting game and continuing with my OCD professional automotive researching. ;-/ I'm closing on a house in 10 days so I'm trying to hold back on the spending. The last 6-spd in Portland metro was sold this past weekend so I guess I'm going the slushbox route as well. Got my eye on a Polished Titanium SE, Titanium edition, frost cloth, slider with mud guards and mats. The closest dealership has one left (only 5 '03's total), the next closest store has the excact vehicle but with black cloth; either one will work. I agree with you, this is a veh that will be hard to outgrow; love my GTI but I gotta move on... Making matters worse though is my sudden and unexplainable interest in a '03 Saab Linear/Launch...I'm waiting and torn; bad combo!
Suv- Personally, how lanzz reacted to the ludicrous treatment he/she received was completely justified. No one can convince me that the situation was mishandled to the extreme. Back and forth threats over a 15 min job? I mean, come on! A little common sense and a little diplomacy could have averted the entire thing.
How 'bout Seattle? I know that Campbell Nelson Nissan up here in Lynnwood had a Manny Tranny SE as of a couple weeks ago. Had all the bells and whistles, was white, tho.
Seattle would work well! Hadnt thought of that but its a good idea. I'm routinely up there on business so I could "one-way" a rental and drive the Max back. I'll start searching other shops inventory...white wont work...
Well, I don't see what more lanzz coulda or shoulda done. Shucks, he gave the dealership more than one shot at making it right and he even gave GM a shot at making it right.
The only thing I'd have done differently is to walk off sooner, making sure to mention my experience to anyone I ran into looking for a dealer for either service or sales.
IMHO, ill treatment of customers will continue as long as it tolerated. Service guy can be canned if the owner doesn't approve; dealer can be sanctioned if the manufacturer doesn't approve. It goes on; ergo, it's approved.
I had a 2.5RS and thought about modifying it, but was going to wait until the warranty was up, way I see it ya gotta pay to play. I'm not one to want to defraud the system, just makes cars that much more expensive when we have to pay for some kid who blew his engine.
*sigh* I wish I could have a WRX, but noooo, hubby says a TDI Jetta.
Canning or severly punishing the service tech would not have been out of line for a dealer that really cared about how a customer is treated. This dealer should call this customer personally and apologize and ask him back. Its not like lanzz said something abusive or derogatory. He didn't physically threaten him either.
Shouting your experiences from the rooftop is not a bad approach either. I wonder what the Better Business Bureau or the local TV station would say about canning a customer like that. Personally, I would try the TV station.
may have forced appointments but that's by no means the norm. To say so is misleading and kills your credibility. Why should we believe other things you say when you will say something like this? Service departments just don't force you to make an appointment. I can show up with my car and leave it. What's the difference in scheduling the repairs over the phone or in person. Are they going to tell me that I can't leave the car for them fix a few days later, after the ones that made an appointment are done. No, of course not because I have essentially made an appointment in person instead of over the phone. I don't call driving up and dropping my car off for it to be fixed when they can making an appointment though.
I call for an appointment to get the fuel filler repaired in my 98 Contour SVT. I get an appointment that is about 10 days from the day I call. I tell the service writer that it took about 20 minutes to put 2 gallons of gasoline in my car, and I have tried several filling stations, so I know this isn't a single pump issue. I mentioned that it appeared to be the same symptoms as service campaign XYZ.
Service writer on the phone says, "sir that's not a recall notice, blah blah blah." I said I understand that, I'm calling because I believe I have the problem mentioned, so I'm trying to get it repaired.
The day of service arrives, I'm there at 8AM and it seems I have to go through this all over again with the service writer. I'm wondering if anything got recorded about my problem.
I call at about 3 in the afternoon and I'm told my car is fixed, come pick it up. I get there at about 4:45 and get my car, which I haven't been able to drive for 10 days because I can't put gas in it. I drive down to the gas station and begin to fill it up. I'm thinking, hey this is great, they fixed it right the first time this time. (It would have been a first if they had actually fixed it right the first time)
Moments later, the thought like a dream is dashed by the sound of 93 octane spilling all over the concrete at the service station. After I shut off the nozzle I figure out that fuel is escaping from where the filler neck meets the tank.
I grab my service ticket and call the service department. No one there, they are all gone, not a soul to talk to at the switch board or anything. So I call service again, and leave a message on their voice mail explaining that if my car is going to leak fuel all night, I'm happy to let it do that on their driveway instead of mine. I said, I wasn't happy that this job wasn't done right the first time, and how dangerous it was for fuel to come gushing out of the top of my fuel tank. Told them I'd be leaving my car in front of the service department and I'd want to see the service manager or the tech who worked on my car in the morning when I brought them my keys.
I call my bride and ask her to come back and get me, my car was not fixed correctly. I then drive to the dealership and park my car in front of the doors to service, lock the car and take my keys home with me.
I get there the next morning and tell my service writer that I was back and had cooled off a bit. (It was probably good that they were closed, since I was pretty steamed about the whole thing.) I had one simple demand, that once it was fixed that the tech or the service manager ride along with me to the filling station to verify that the job was done right.
Later that day, I came to get my car, and took a ride with the SM. I told him that I understand service isn't an easy job since I do essentially the same thing with computer systems, but I ALWAYS check my work to ensure the job was done correctly before giving the system back to the customer, and that I expected the same when I brought my car to him.
I told him that everytime I brought my car in for recall or warranty work, it took more than one visit to get the job done right, and that was a principle factor in his shop not getting a chance to do my service work. I really didn't want to pay twice or more until the job was done right.
He seemed understanding and a nice enough guy. He told me how they were going for Blue Oval Certification, so he wants to address these concerns.
I've not been back since, even though he is a nice enough fellow. No survey ever came, so I'm sure they 86'ed it if one was generated for my service event, even though I wouldn't gank him to Ford, but simply fill it out and give only him a copy of what SHOULD be reported.
I got my yelling and screaming out of my system on the V-Mail system, then came back with what I wanted done. No threats, no BS, just what I felt was a reasonable expectation.
Zues can defend himself, but if you would lower your back for a second I think you would find that what he is implying is that most places have an appt system
...have an appt system IN ADDITION to providing customers the ability to drive in and drop. Personally, I would highly value a dealership that provided both.
kfydx- yup, that's an '03 I been looking at (though I'm not quite as adamant about the '04 as you seem to be...)
Its natural to be upset in that situation especially since it happens often at that dealership. These guys that don't follow the "customer is always right" rule seem to forget that its not their mode of transportation their dealing with and people are gonna get upset when you don't do what you say you are going to do.
"...message on their voice mail explaining that if my car is going to leak fuel all night, I'm happy to let it do that on their driveway instead of mine. I said, I wasn't happy that this job wasn't done right the first time..."
and
"Told them I'd be leaving my car in front of the service department and I'd want to see the service manager or the tech who worked on my car in the morning when I brought them my keys."
don't sound any less threatening than what lanzz said. I think it was easy to tell when you said you weren't happy that they would not get a good survey. However, the SM responded appropriately trying to give you what you asked for and do anything he can to keep your business.
A friend has a '98 Contour that had the same problem with fuel filling. It was a "hidden recall" that took several service visits and he only found out about by surfing the web and finding the recall and TSB. Eventually FORD paid.
I've patronized service departments with all three systems - appointments for everything, drive up for everything, some things scheduled - others drive up. IME, it's the people and not the system that matters.
We actually did have an "Inconsiderate Service Departments" discussion that was cross-linked between Smart Shopper and Maintenance/Repair. (It's currently archived.) If anyone wants to restart that discussion, it's better in M&R than here.
OK, I was staying out of this one since I generally agree that the whole leaky AC fiasco could have been handled better by both sides...
But, "Youse guys up North could use a few manners..."??? Did you think that one was just going to slip on by? Me thinks you might have a bit too much starch in your shorts. It's one thing to be Mr. "I'm not in the least, politically correct"? It's quite another to be lobbing baseless generalizations at whole segment of society because of where they happen to call home.
In the context of his comment, Zueslewis was not taking a shot at anyone. In addition, he specifically mentioned regarding service appointments, not to the North/Northeast in general, where zues lives.
and then don't get service, I get REALLY irritated. Now if my car don't run, I've got nothing to lose by just bringing it in... but if the AC don't work right, don't tell me to come in unless you know you can look at it. It's like getting a Dr's appointment for 8:00 and having to wait until 9:30... do it twice, and I'll find a place that values my time. -Mathias East Lansing, MI
You have nothing to prove to us regulars here. And newcomers appreciate your body of knowledge Your expertise and experience speak for themselves. Certain types of posters insist on playing games of semantics because they really have nothing to contribute in a thread entitled "Any questions for a car dealer." IMO, these types of posters are not worth responding to. Let them go argue amongst themselves.
Drove by Campbell Nelson Nissan on the way back from a friend's tonight, just to check their inventory. They've got a fully loaded, brand new '02 Max, 6spd, white, meridian, leather, sunroof. Bet you could swing a sweet deal based on the year.
Hey, if you're up for a road trip to Grand Rapids, Michigan (!), we have a couple local dealers who have your car in stock (no 6 spds, though). Go to nissanusa.com and punch in "49548" for a zip code, and you should see a few dealers who have both loaded and semi-loaded Titaniums in stock. I bought my SE from Gezon.
It's only a few thousand miles or so, come on down (up?)! Just take off a week, and...
On-topic, I have a question. Nissan service depts. have a rep as being basically incompetent. However, I know a guy who works for a local shop that usually works on high-line to extremely high-line vehicles. I know I can go there and get excellent service for non-warranty issues. If my engine blows up under warranty (for example), will Nissan give me a hard time about not getting oil changes, etc. done at an actual Nissan service dept.? I'm also debating going to a local Infiniti store, although I'm sure their prices will steer me away. Any opinions?
Comments
Thanks for posting. Been there, done that; so, I get it.
Darned good thing there's competition, huh?
"Never wrestle with a pig. All you get is dirty, and the pig enjoys it." Mark Twain
If they had been honest about how long it would take to look at the car, and how much it would cost there would have been no issue.
They set the expectation (almost apologetically) of an appointment being required to assure that I would get the "requisite attention".
They set the expectation of looking at the car on Tues.
Check the post again, Zeus, I did not threaten a bad survey because of pine needles - rather, it was because they had not yet looked at the car. I would only find out that it was pine needles after the fact.
And, at the point of it actually costing money - I was not opposed to paying - believe me, I would have paid more than the quoted amount not to have the whole experience.
Oh, and by the way - Martin Honda and Martin Volvo and Manhattan Me/Be do not require or take appointments - so before you hip me up to how auto service works in the big city - give me some credit for maybe knowing a bit about it.
Zues, I will chalk up to the tone of your to the fact that it can't be any picnic to be in the auto business. I guess there is a degree of responsibility on both side of the equation for the current climate between dealer and customer.
I just wish every customer would not be subject to the baggage of past bad experiences in every new interaction with sales or service personnel.
We aren't all monsters, just please give us the benefit of the doubt.
Sorry - I simply think it was mishandled, perhaps by both sides, but once the survey card was played, there's no place to go that could make anyone happy. The best thing to do is cut it loose, which is exactly what was done.
And this isn't just a GM concept, either.
Here in Boston, the norm is for appointments. There was one dealer I did use that did not require them. In that case, it was like standing in line for concert tickets. They did repairs in the order that people arrived. You could leave your car with no guarantee that it would be looked at that day, the next day or the day after that. Take your car home, you had to come back and start all over again.
Many a day I was at the dealer at 5AM securing a position in line.
There is one dealer now that I've tried to use that takes appointments to the extreme for simple oil changes. "OK we can get you in at 2:20 PM on Tuesday. Great - I'll drop it off in the morning and pick it up that night. No sir you don't need to do that, come in at 2:20 and we'll take care of it right then. Well I really can't leave work to be here at exactly 2:20 - I'll leave it and you can do it at 2:20. No sir, please arrive at 2:20 for your appointment. I really can't leave it? No sir, please come at 2:20. I guess we better cancel then."
I certainly couldn't give up my car for several days at a time, and I'm guessing neither could lanzz. To me, an appointment is more than "just getting in the door". If you have a well run dealership, you should know and should communicate a realistic expectation of when the problem will be investigated. What's the point of making appointments for cars you can't work on? To fill up a parking lot?
So when lanzz isn't making any progress, what card should he play? Maybe a better move would have been to contact the service manager, but that too would have pissed off the service writer. So how does a customer win in this situation? Just wait and wait and wait?
Like bigorange, I'm loving the Infiniti way. Since they give me a car whenever I'm in for service, I really don't care when they get to mine--I'm putting miles on their car while they've got mine. I'm sure their service staff live less-stressful lives as a result, and their customers are very happy.
Many of you are so far off as to your assumptions of how a service department works, it's crazy.
With appointments, Ford schedules you to arrive in 10-min intervals and if you're real late they request that you use the non-appt lane. Seems reasonable. For their scheduled clients, they absolutely get the diagnostic done that day and if parts need to be ordered they notify you in writing and via phone when they arrive and set-up the installation - which gets done on the scheduled day. No free loaners but this is Ford and none were ever promised.
Lexus provides loaners for our RX or LS if its a warranty issue or, if it's non-warranty, if it's a big ticket or overnight deal. Seems like a reasonable policy.
The NYC Chevy service dept should not have scheduled Ed's visit if they were too booked up to even diagnose the problem. Not saying they had to fix it that day, depending on what they found.
Very inconsiderate.
Regards... Vikd
I asked how long it would take them and they said a day or two at most. And it did. I didn't have a problem, and this was a high volume dealership in Northern NJ, in the NYC Metro area.
When I make an appointment, it isn't to get my foot in the door, it is with a reasonable expectation that they will look at the car that day. Do you make a Dr's appointment to get your foot in the waiting room, or do you have a reasonable expectation of being attended to that day?
I think that if a customer makes an appointment, and the dealer then can't look at the car for a day or two, it is at least common courtesy to inform the customer of the delay.
Suppose I call Joe's Garage and he tells me to bring my car in the next morning. When I get there, he tells me there has been an unexpected problem and he can't look at the car today. I can appreciate and respect that. I think 99% of all customers would, and would be understanding.
Why tell a customer, "An appointment gets you in the door, not a guarantee of service"? I think anyone who heard would be justifiably upset.
- Lou
Personally, no dealership has the right to be rude, no matter what! As a worker in the service industry, I give my customers the respect and the honesty they deserve whenever possible. If I have a bad day, it's not there problem and they don't want or need to deal with it!
Zues, not to be disrespectful, but your attitude seems to be,"I'm outta here" when a few people don't agree with your point of view, no matter what the issue. Just an observation from being here in Townhall and reading your many posts. I personally don't know squat about the automotive industry but you seem to have a slight attitude when anyone has questions or questions you about "what we don't know".
Life's to short for us not to be civil and respectful to each other folks.
Have a great day all!
(Getting off my soapbox now)
The Sandman :-)
"Many of you are so far off as to your assumptions of how a service department works, it's crazy"
To me, this is an example of exactly what is wrong with most service businesses today. The customer is somehow supposed to know how the business works and is supposed to adapt themselves to fit the needs of that business. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Some service facilities have actually figured this out and have excellent relationships with their customers while still managing to make money. I, for one, have definitely become an Infiniti convert. The way that company has handled me as a customer who didn't even buy their car from one of their dealers (it was used) has definitely had an impact on me. As long as they continue with their current business practices, I'll be a a loyal customer of theirs.
It seems that when a dealer in this area tells you to come in the next day, it is usually as a favor. They are squeezing you in and typically tell you upfront that is the case.
I agree that throwing the CSI survey in the service writer's face is threatening. IMHO, it says I'm going to hurt you directly in the wallet. Once the service writer heard that, he could move heaven and earth and the customer wasn't going to be happy. AFAIK, the seller is allowed to fire a customer if he wants to.
Heck, I've been almost fired as a customer. After dealing with the get in line at 5AM place, I decided to try another dealer when the steering rack and electrical system went on my Dodge Daytona at 34K. Once the regional rep had to get involved, the service manager said to me: "I should have refused to look at your car as soon as I saw where you had taken it before. We're always having to fix their mistakes and people are already mad at us before they walk in the door."
Those "heavy line" techs don't have to deal with the smaller complaints (like the a/c issue that started this discussion). Many of the smaller complaint guys are incredibly overloaded by some of the most aggressive customers with the least important complaints, like dash rattles, squeaks, etc.
I've seen 20-line ROs just on squeaks and rattles. While those items should be addressed, in either warranty or maintenance, they don't keep you from driving your car. Your brakes, engine or transmission are vastly more important and would be treated so in most places.
"Once the regional rep had to get involved, the service manager said to me: "I should have refused to look at your car as soon as I saw where you had taken it before. We're always having to fix their mistakes and people are already mad at us before they walk in the door."
There are many facets that most consumers don't consider.
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=8b580b8db8cebdf55b0- 02eced7adec8c&threadid=9739&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
The gist of it is: Guy mods his WRX with massive boost and blows his engine during a street race. Tries to find someone to fix his car under warranty. Other WRX owners are incensed and rat on him to Subaru of America and all the dealers in his area, ensuring that he will not get service anywhere.
IF you're curious, mine is a Grey Lustre SE, auto (6 spd is nice for a weekend car, but for a daily driver no thanks!), black cloth, Titanium pkg, sunroof, and "mud guards" or whatever Nissan calls them. I was kind of torn on the leather - while it would have been nice, leather automatically adds another $2k to the OTD price. No thanks.
afty: I was actually reading that exact story yesterday. I'm completely with the Subaru guys who turned him in; if you mod your engine, you pay when it breaks. It's ridiculous to expect Subaru to pay out when people do stupid things to their products! What that kid tried to do was fraud, plain and simple.
"The car was under warranty, and I was having trouble with the A/C, where it dripped water into the interior whenever it was on. It made a very large puddle of water inside the car every time the A/C was used. Also asked to have a burned out brake light be replaced.
1) Went to have car serviced on Mon 9/9/02, was told to come back with an appointment so I could get the "proper treatment" Said ok, and called to make an appointment for the following day. (other Manhattan dealerships do not take or require appointments, so I figured I would take a chance on this...)
2) Took the car in on Tues 9/10/02 and dropped it off at 8:30am. Was told that they might not get to the car until afternoon, so call then for an update.
3) Called at 1:30pm, was told car had not been looked at yet. Told to call back at 4:30pm.
4) Called at 4:30pm, told the car had not been looked at yet. Told to call back tomorrow.
5) Called at noon on Weds 9/11/02, was told the car had not been looked at yet. At this point, they had the car for a day and a half, with no diagnosis yet. So I asked when the service advisor thought they would be able to look at the car. He replied " I don't know, we are backed up." So I said "Then why I did I need to make an appointment?" I was told "An appointment gets you in the door, not a guarantee of service.""
OK, zues and others, what should a considerate car-owner do at this point?
What would be reasonable and effective?
Mods to get his car to 18psi: $6 grand
SoA Nailing him for a fraudulent warranty claim:
PRICELESS!
-juice
Making matters worse though is my sudden and unexplainable interest in a '03 Saab Linear/Launch...I'm waiting and torn; bad combo!
Suv-
Personally, how lanzz reacted to the ludicrous treatment he/she received was completely justified. No one can convince me that the situation was mishandled to the extreme. Back and forth threats over a 15 min job? I mean, come on! A little common sense and a little diplomacy could have averted the entire thing.
Regards... Vikd
Regards... Vikd
The only thing I'd have done differently is to walk off sooner, making sure to mention my experience to anyone I ran into looking for a dealer for either service or sales.
IMHO, ill treatment of customers will continue as long as it tolerated. Service guy can be canned if the owner doesn't approve; dealer can be sanctioned if the manufacturer doesn't approve. It goes on; ergo, it's approved.
kyfdx
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I had a 2.5RS and thought about modifying it, but was going to wait until the warranty was up, way I see it ya gotta pay to play. I'm not one to want to defraud the system, just makes cars that much more expensive when we have to pay for some kid who blew his engine.
*sigh* I wish I could have a WRX, but noooo, hubby says a TDI Jetta.
Shouting your experiences from the rooftop is not a bad approach either. I wonder what the Better Business Bureau or the local TV station would say about canning a customer like that. Personally, I would try the TV station.
Did you really use to work in a dealership?
I call for an appointment to get the fuel filler repaired in my 98 Contour SVT. I get an appointment that is about 10 days from the day I call. I tell the service writer that it took about 20 minutes to put 2 gallons of gasoline in my car, and I have tried several filling stations, so I know this isn't a single pump issue. I mentioned that it appeared to be the same symptoms as service campaign XYZ.
Service writer on the phone says, "sir that's not a recall notice, blah blah blah." I said I understand that, I'm calling because I believe I have the problem mentioned, so I'm trying to get it repaired.
The day of service arrives, I'm there at 8AM and it seems I have to go through this all over again with the service writer. I'm wondering if anything got recorded about my problem.
I call at about 3 in the afternoon and I'm told my car is fixed, come pick it up. I get there at about 4:45 and get my car, which I haven't been able to drive for 10 days because I can't put gas in it. I drive down to the gas station and begin to fill it up. I'm thinking, hey this is great, they fixed it right the first time this time. (It would have been a first if they had actually fixed it right the first time)
Moments later, the thought like a dream is dashed by the sound of 93 octane spilling all over the concrete at the service station. After I shut off the nozzle I figure out that fuel is escaping from where the filler neck meets the tank.
I grab my service ticket and call the service department. No one there, they are all gone, not a soul to talk to at the switch board or anything. So I call service again, and leave a message on their voice mail explaining that if my car is going to leak fuel all night, I'm happy to let it do that on their driveway instead of mine. I said, I wasn't happy that this job wasn't done right the first time, and how dangerous it was for fuel to come gushing out of the top of my fuel tank. Told them I'd be leaving my car in front of the service department and I'd want to see the service manager or the tech who worked on my car in the morning when I brought them my keys.
I call my bride and ask her to come back and get me, my car was not fixed correctly. I then drive to the dealership and park my car in front of the doors to service, lock the car and take my keys home with me.
I get there the next morning and tell my service writer that I was back and had cooled off a bit. (It was probably good that they were closed, since I was pretty steamed about the whole thing.) I had one simple demand, that once it was fixed that the tech or the service manager ride along with me to the filling station to verify that the job was done right.
Later that day, I came to get my car, and took a ride with the SM. I told him that I understand service isn't an easy job since I do essentially the same thing with computer systems, but I ALWAYS check my work to ensure the job was done correctly before giving the system back to the customer, and that I expected the same when I brought my car to him.
I told him that everytime I brought my car in for recall or warranty work, it took more than one visit to get the job done right, and that was a principle factor in his shop not getting a chance to do my service work. I really didn't want to pay twice or more until the job was done right.
He seemed understanding and a nice enough guy. He told me how they were going for Blue Oval Certification, so he wants to address these concerns.
I've not been back since, even though he is a nice enough fellow. No survey ever came, so I'm sure they 86'ed it if one was generated for my service event, even though I wouldn't gank him to Ford, but simply fill it out and give only him a copy of what SHOULD be reported.
I got my yelling and screaming out of my system on the V-Mail system, then came back with what I wanted done. No threats, no BS, just what I felt was a reasonable expectation.
It seemed to work for me.
TB
kfydx- yup, that's an '03 I been looking at (though I'm not quite as adamant about the '04 as you seem to be...)
Regards... Vikd
"...message on their voice mail explaining that if my car is going to leak fuel all night, I'm happy to let it do that on their driveway instead of mine. I said, I wasn't happy that this job wasn't done right the first time..."
and
"Told them I'd be leaving my car in front of the service department and I'd want to see the service manager or the tech who worked on my car in the morning when I brought them my keys."
don't sound any less threatening than what lanzz said. I think it was easy to tell when you said you weren't happy that they would not get a good survey. However, the SM responded appropriately trying to give you what you asked for and do anything he can to keep your business.
"There just ain't no fix for dumb."
01M04 JUN 01 Campaign - Fuel Pipe Flapper Valve Additional Coverage
Or you can check here for a list of all campaigns recalls and other interesting tidbits...
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/19/981941DD.html
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kcram
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But, "Youse guys up North could use a few manners..."??? Did you think that one was just going to slip on by? Me thinks you might have a bit too much starch in your shorts. It's one thing to be Mr. "I'm not in the least, politically correct"? It's quite another to be lobbing baseless generalizations at whole segment of society because of where they happen to call home.
kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards
Now if my car don't run, I've got nothing to lose by just bringing it in... but if the AC don't work right, don't tell me to come in unless you know you can look at it.
It's like getting a Dr's appointment for 8:00 and having to wait until 9:30... do it twice, and I'll find a place that values my time.
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
For information to all: my e-mail address is in my profile.
It's only a few thousand miles or so, come on down (up?)! Just take off a week, and...
On-topic, I have a question. Nissan service depts. have a rep as being basically incompetent. However, I know a guy who works for a local shop that usually works on high-line to extremely high-line vehicles. I know I can go there and get excellent service for non-warranty issues. If my engine blows up under warranty (for example), will Nissan give me a hard time about not getting oil changes, etc. done at an actual Nissan service dept.? I'm also debating going to a local Infiniti store, although I'm sure their prices will steer me away. Any opinions?
These boards seem to be dominated by a couple of new people who only want to argue!