Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

isellpotiac · July 2001

in NYS. We charge $60 for a transfer of plates and $100 for new plates. This covers NYS inspection, title transfer and DMV fees.

im_brentwood · July 2001

Sounds about right if you need a new tag (I live in/own 2 stores in FL).

If you're transferring a tag its' about $100 too high (They hit you with a $100 charge if you dont have a tag to transfer)

And the dealer is only allowed to charge the actual amount of the DMV Fees by law and must refund the overage.

Bill

kihmun · July 2001

It says on Edmunds that the manufacturer (Audi in this case) is offering special financing incentives, but only for the higher end car. It's a great offer, but I'm a little worried about going in there doing all of the work, and having the F&I person tell me it's not going to work. I plan on test driving the cars, and making my decision on which one to get based on performance, but cost will play an important part (the cheaper car doesn't get qualify for the special APR). Should I plan on getting pre-qualified through my bank as a fall through plan, so that at least I know once I arrive at a good price, I'm set to go, even without the financing? Any recommendations on how to find out if I will qualify, and what the terms would be (e.g. fees, penalities) for financing through the dealer? Just want to make sure my ducks are lined up before heading in. Thanks.

mmcbride1 · July 2001

My tags only cost $225. On my 2001 A4, my tags were $600 (and that's just for one year). The only 'good' news is that it goes down each year. Next year, they'll be about $400.

fangio2 · July 2001

saleman who sold the car.I haven't had any problems yet,but I didn't like the run around I saw other customers getting when I got my oil changed.I feel like the salesman that sold me the car is a pretty up front guy(see he did his job right).I guess my question is -do dealerships encourage or discourage a salesmans involvement after the sale.This is a multi-maker dealership-Chrysler,Kia,Suzuki and Daewoo.The reason I ask is once it was clear I was going to buy the car the finance "manager" took over.It makes me wonder if the salesmen are at the bottom of the heap at this dealership.

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Kihmun, Audi is offering consumers special finance rates on the 2001 A4 2.8L, all A6 models, the allroad, and the A8. Even if you do not qualify for Audi Financial's Preferred credit tier rates, there is still a good chance that you will qualify for their standard tier rates, which are still quite attractive. For instance, right now Audi has special Preferred tier interest rates of 2.8% for 24 mo., 3.8% for 36 mo., 4.8% for 48 mo., and 5.8% for 60 mo. terms and Standard Tier rates of 4.8%, 5.8%, 6.8%, and 7.8% respectively. So as you can see their rates for consumers with less than stellar credit are stil very good. Of course, if you would feel more comfortable in your negotiations it certainly would not hurt to get pre-approved to finance the car that you are interested in prior to doing any serious shopping.

Car_Man
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isellpotiac · July 2001

It is a good indicator that you bought at the wrong store or from the wrong salesperson if they discourage you from contacting the salesman when you have problems after the sale. I tell all my customers to call me first if they have a problem. The reason being I can keep in touch with the customer and also hold thier hand throughout the whole deal. Sometimes people can be intimidated by the service department. If word gets out that service sucks your sales will be affected.

potenzaus · July 2001

In CA, how the license and registration fees being calculated?
Is the Dodumentaion Fees fixed of $45.00?

Thank you.

raybear · July 2001

Most dealers charge $45 for the doc fee. The license is a percentage of the cost of the car. The sales tax will be the rate where you have the car registered.

hiwaysanity · July 2001

about what "fees" are legitimate, and which are fluff. Some of the earlier questions suggest that buyers don't know the difference between registration and licensing fees, sales tax, advertising fees, documentation fee, application for title, yada, yada. I think they are so wary of being ripped-off that they are even suspicious of state mandated fees over which the dealers have no control.

Maybe it would be helpful if some of the dealer experts could make a list of as many of the different fees as possible and tell what they represent, and whether they are typically negotiable.

audia8q · July 2001

Here are a few...

Destination charge.....legit, fixed.

Advertising fees...usually legit, fixed. If its on the factory invoice its ok...anywhere else its questionable...Toyota calls it TDA, Ford calls it FDAF, etc...

Doc/conveyance/dealer office fee...generally $199 or less. The legit part has been debated as long as there has been cars, so i wont get into that...But, due to many state laws if one person is charged the fee, everyone must be charged...so removing it or haggling it is often a no-no. Ask the amount and figure it into your offer..."I'll offer you $xx,xxx for the car including all dealer fees..sales tax and actual registration fees."

Tax, title, lic, lien fee....all legit government fees. Here in CT. we can only charge the actual amount for these items.

Dealer Prep posted near the window sticker of the car....very negotiable...

Some mfg. put some odd things on the dealers invoice...Ones that seem questionable but are legit. Saab charges $15 for the owners manual, Ford charges us for gasoline..etc. Generally if its on the invoice its legit..

I'm sure some others can think of some other fees.

Rich

hooops · July 2001

What sources are there to find a car's title history. I know there is
carfax.com. Are there any others ? Can you go to DMV in your
state and request it. I have a slight problem. I just leased a 2001.
I was told it was new and the lease contract indicated it was new.
I went away on vacation the day after I leased and something
bothered me about the dealership. The car did have 217 miles on
it, but that didn't bother me to much. I called up the manufacturer's
customer care center when I got back and they told me that the car
had been titled 7 months earlier. I'm assuming once a car is titled
and then resold it would be considered used or a demo - is that
correct ? I was also told that I have 7 months less of the warranty.
Should I cancel credit card payments ? Should I demand a new
vehicle ? I have already contacted the manufacturer's captive
finance company and indicated that I would not make payment
until this matter was reviewed and resolved. Should I have an attorney
deal with this ? The customer care center said that maybe the
dealership made an error - hopefully that's the case, but if not I want
to make sure I cover my bases.

raybear · July 2001

The dealership made an error all right. Don't stop making payments, the lease is separate from the dealer and the bank would kill your credit. Go to your state DMV and have the paperwork ready. The dealer's in trouble here if he signed the papers on the car as new and it was previously titled.

On second thought, go to the dealer first and get some restitution. Have them throw in an extended warranty to cover any future repairs. If they're not bad people and made an honest mistake you should work it out.

hooops · July 2001

Thanks for the info. I'll check with DMV first and if turns out that the car was
indeed titled previously, I'll contact the dealer to see what they'll do.

kallgaier · July 2001

I test drove a 2001 audi tt 225hp roadster the other day--what a nice little car. The dealer had a bunch--I was surprised. What's a fair price on them? I am tempted to wait for the 2002s, but the salesman says they won't discount those, which I'm not sure I believe, as they had so many 2001s (I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area).

Also, is the TT a reasonable lease candidate? I've never had a convertible before, and I like the idea of being able to walk away in three years if I choose. If I like it, however, I would buy it after the lease is up.

Also--sorry to ask so many questions--I read about a loan/lease product that was a loan with a balloon payment, but you built equity all along. It's hard to tell with new products--are those for suckers, or do they present a good deal?

thanks for any input!

im_brentwood · July 2001

I' d look for an Audi TT topic if I were you, but from what I know, TT Convertibles aren't being discounted much if at all.

I still see quite a few for sale on the secondary market for MSRP or above. Current wholesale on the Quattro convertibles with 2K miles on them or so is easily $36K, so that would give them a retail value as used cars of $39K+ In other words, if you can get a deal on one, you seem to be doing quite well! TMV on them seems to be $250 off of sticker which seems to be in line with current market conditions from where I sit. Again, I don;t know the tT market as I don't own an Audi Store.

As far as Leasing goes... The TT ought to lease quite well. I remember seeing that they had pretty high residuals (Makes sense, they're holding their value quite well).

As far as Balloons... I really don't see any advantage to them unless the registration papers HAVE to have your name on them. And you aren't building equity. Frankly, a Lease really IS like a Balloon with the added advantages of less sales tax liability in most states, as well as income tax advantages for some people.

Hope this helps!

Bill

kkollwitz · July 2001

I recall reading somewhere that GM considers a 60-day car supply an ideal inventory. Does this imply that dealers consider cars sitting on the lot for an average of 60 days OK? I'd think that ideally, dealers would sell cars as fast as they rolled off the trailer.
Is there some industry standard for how long a car can sit unsold before it becomes a problem?

godeacs · July 2001

Bill, have been offered a nice deal (I think!) for a 2001 Scab 9-5. MSRP $38.K less rebate of $3.25K (a "balloon assistance from man") plus $5K dealer discount. That's brings price down to under $30K I/room to negotiate. Catch is I must finance at least residual of car ($16.4K) with Scab for 36 or 48 months (rate is 6.9%)but can "refinance" with another lender after 90 days at a lower rate with no balloon. Already have checked with another bank and that is no problem. Car would be in my name so would not be a lease. I would be building equity as I would pay off loan early.... comments?

This deal makes the 9-5 a "no drainer" over the 9-3 I was considering. A better car for about the same price! Thanks.....

godeacs · July 2001

Is 5% profit (as compared to 5% over invoice) a reasonable target to offer a dealer (ie Volvo, Saab, etc) for a model that is not undergoing major changes in the coming year?

im_brentwood · July 2001

It really depends on the product line. I'm averaging like 54 days overall. I think that 60 days is the average.

Now, I have a Brown Grand Am that we've had since January and a Conversion Van that's been there since October! And some cars are sold before they arrive (WS6 Trans Ams, and 4-Motions and most Passat wagons at the VW place).

For me, I don;t want any used cars longer than 45 days and I dont like seeing new cars over 60 days.

Problem with the car biz is that rules of thumb don't seem to apply...

Bill

im_brentwood · July 2001

May I make a suggestion?

The 9-5 is a nice car but you can do an awful lot better by leasing one. Not only is the rate supported heavily, but if I recall there is $5,000 in dealer cash on leased SAAB 9-5s.

Basically, they were discussing a balloon. In rare circumstances they may be better, but I generally would say that Leasing has all of the advantages of a balloon but you also get possible income tax advantages as well as sales tax advantages in most states. You won't be building equity either. Without a substantial down payment, you won't build equity in a 9-5 even on a straight finance anytime soon, to say nothing of a balloonwhere you're deferring a large chunk of the car's price. Current wholesale on a 99 with 20-25K miles on it is barely $20,000, and back in 99 there weren't huge incentives on them either. $15,000+ is a huge hit to take in 2 years, A Mercedes-Benz E320 doesnt even get punished like that and the car costs $15,000+ More to begin with!

It will also protect you from their staggering depreciation. I would NOT want a New SAAB to be titled in my name! GMAC Tends to overestimate their SAAB residuals from what I see.

As far as profits on imported luxury cars go... Depends totally on the car. I wouldnt say to pay 5% over invoice on ANY Volvo or SAAB, and 5% over wont get you close on a lot of them. Like anything else, market conditions dictate markeups.

Take Jaguars: You'll pay MSRP for some (XKR, new X-Type, close on an XJR) which is more than 5%, and you can get an XJ8 for 4% over (About $2,000 over invoice is generally market on them in most major markets).

Bill

godeacs · July 2001

Thanks, Bill for the info. Afraid I'm really not comfortable with leasing and don't think it fits my situation. Don't see any tax advantages in my case plus don't want to be tied into artificial mileage limits and then pay a premium when I exceed them. Finally do not want big lease payments every month. Realize depreciation is large but I'd only be paying $28K+ or so on a $38K car and putting more than half that down (trade in + cash). Heck, my Volvo depreciated a lot too - fact of life, I guess....as I found out when trying to trade in! Also would pay the car off early to avoid the balloon.

My situation: don't like the look of the new Volvos, their numerous problems and the way Volvo tried to jam me on my trade in (won't even get into how they never gave me the chance to buy an extended warranty before I hit 50K miles). Really liked the Audi A4 until I "tested" their service folks - the ones I'd be dealing w/the next few years. Not impressed! Saab dealer has been the most professional and has a top notch service dept so they're in the "driver's seat"..lol. If I can get a 9-5 for almost the same price as a 9-3, it's hard to turn down.

Once again, I really appreciate your input and advice. This car buying stuff gives me a massive headache......

geneseedepot · July 2001

The last time I bought a new car, I traded in a an 8 year old(89) Taurus on a new 97 Civic. I accepted an offer of 1600 on the Taurus. I negotiated $1300 off MSRP on the Civic. Yet when the deal was written up, the Civic was written up at MSRP and the Taurus trade-in was inflated to $2900. Is this a common way of writing up a deal?

J.P.

tboner1965 · July 2001

Let's say the Civic was about 14,500 sticker. (Just for round numbers)

If they take 1300 off the price of the sticker, then the price of that
vehicle is 13,200 and you have 1,600 down (assuming you didn't bring any cash to the table) or about 12% down.

Now if the Civic sells at 14,500 and you have 2900 down, then you have 20% down.

That may be a magic number when financing and could have qualified you (or the dealer) for a lower rate.

Without knowing anymore specifics of the deal, the financing and the credit it would be hard to say if you did good or bad.

But I believe often this sort of numbers game is done for the benefit of financing.

Of course I'm not a dealer, so why am I answering this question 8^)

TB

zueslewis · July 2001

in the "overallowing" on your trade-in against the MSRP of the 97 Civic. You got the same deal and it looks better for financing and it looks better to the sales stats - on first impression the general manager of the dealership thinks his guys got full MSRP for the Civic. Considering he'll only spend a nanosecond looking at sales stats, the warm fuzzy feeling he gets will generate in a pizza party for the sales crew. I've diverted, again, to my days in the car business.

All is good with your deal. I've seen where we'd inflate the price of the new vehicle and REALLY overallow on the trade to show 20% down. The lenders know what's up, but most just want the finance deal to LOOK good.

audia8q · July 2001

It's common for us to "juggle" the numbers for contracting purposes. The bottom line remains the same but the top numbers get moved around.

In most cases, its done to hide the customers negative equity...which technically should not be financed.

Rich

tboner1965 · July 2001

When someone wants to see what that Taurus costs the used car lot, they can quickly show them the $2900 that they 'paid' you for it, plus reconditioning, then justify putting a $5K price on the car.

8^D

TB

geneseedepot · July 2001

blue book value was probably closer to what they wrote it up us ($2000-2500), but had transmission problems and significant rust. I thought the deal was acceptable considering the condition of the car but I wonder if the way they valued the trade was a sign that I accepted too little on the trade (duh!). Financing really wasn't an issue, I had already arranged financing through my credit union.

bdak · July 2001

was wondering if you go into a dealer and sign a contract with a small down payment do you have a legal time frame to back out of the deal. thanks

jpvwaudi · July 2001

It depends state you are in, but remember, possession is 9/10's of the law. In my state, there is no 3 day right of recision on automobiles. If you signed a contract, put money down and took delivery, you may be stuck. However, we usually let people out if they come back within a day or 2 because its too expensive to pay an attorney to fight to keep a 2000 deal...

potenzaus · August 2001

Can anybody provide information about what are the expected $ Amt if you buy a new car from a dealer...
How the License fee is calculated? Is it based on the price of the car? or Model?
and other DMV fees?

Say If I buy a $19,000.00 car, how would I see the complete itemized tax and charges on the contract assuming I'll take a financing from the dealership (manufacturer finance).

Thanks.

afk_x · August 2001

With license fees.

tboner1965 · August 2001

Best thing to do is visit your DMV or Sec of State office and ask for the blank forms for registering a new vehicle, paying taxes etc. They will spell out what those values are.

Or check out the web sites. I know IL has a website for such things so you can see how they are done.

Or, perhaps ask your bank, they might even be able to explain the procedure to you.

TB

potenzaus · August 2001

I'm close to buying a car so I'm trying to get an accurate numbers before I go to the dealer...

Which comes first?

Price of car less Downpayment then multiply by tax
plus fees

Or

Price of car multiply by tax then less Donwpayment
plus fees

Thanks.

tboner1965 · August 2001

You haven't given enough information.

Where do you live? The rules vary from state to state.

TB

im_brentwood · August 2001

With VERY specific and rare exceptions the down payment is taxable. The State doesnt care how you pay for it, they just want their $$.

However, if you are trading in a car the trade difference is taxable.

I.E.

Car: $25,000
Trade-In: $(5,000)
Doc Fee: $ 150
Sales Tax:$ 1,209
Plates: $ 200
Down Pmt:$(2,000)
Rebate: $(1,000)
Financed: $19,559

This assumes 6% Sales tax. The trade saves you $300 in sales tax, and the rebate is taxable.

Hope this helps!

Bill

tronsr1 · August 2001

Bill,
When will you be getting the new Pontiac Vibe in stock??

dstrau · August 2001

My 98 accord lease is almost due...is it better to get a pre-inspection and have the inspector tell me what needs to be fixed or repair the definite wear and tear items on my own and keep my fingers crossed that the inspector won't find anything else wrong with the car? and be subjected to having it in a second time. Also, I am not going to lease another vehicle and don't plan on telling him/her that.

kentcee · August 2001

I have a dealer who is trying to sell me a Saab 9/5 SE wagon that was used as a loaner, it has 11,000 miles, I am nervous, any one have knowledge about pricing, etc. for this type of thing.

audia8q · August 2001

Nothing helps a lease end inspection like a good clean and detail. If the inspector has to look through 3 years of dirt you can bet he will find everything. If the overall appearance is good it will help your cause.

Generally the big items are...tires, glass, burns or tears in the interior. Small dings and small scratches (a couple, not dozens) are usually overlooked if the vehicle as a whole is very clean.

Rich

dstrau · August 2001

Regarding my 98 accord lease-see posting #393-there is a dent above the driver side fender, a dent in the door, and a couple of dings and scratches. Should I let the leasing inspector tell me the obvious, or fix the obvious and then let it get inspected? what happens then if the inspector finds some other things wron with the car?

rroyce10 · August 2001

....... "If" you Honda has a few dings and dent's -- and the fender has a "dent" not $1,500 of body work, I wouldn't give it a second thought..

All the lease companies are fully aware of spending a few of their own bucks for "conditioning" a vehicle before auction. This means a visit from the Dent Wizard ($150) a good detail for in and around $100 and last but not least, a safety inspection for around another $100 ( oil and filter change )-- and if it needs new tires, as a rule they will slap them on ....

Soooo, it sounds just like the average vehicle being brought back from lease, not much more. These "Inspectors" are not from Scotland Yard, just a bunch of guys that look at vehicles all day.

Relax, and Just start looking for your new vehicle ..

I know this will help..

Terry.

shogun1313 · August 2001

Toyota Mall of Georgia tried to make me believe that it was better to roll in $3500 of negative equity into a Tundra deal by trading in my leased Eclipse based on a presumed $15500 30-day payoff and their $12K trade allowance.

I told them it would be cheaper for me to dispose of the Eclipse myself since the pre-inspection estimate Mitsu Motor Credit gave me was $1946. The dealership's F&I person (brought into the conversation by the saleperson) did not believe me or that I could dispose of the Eclipse for anywhere less than $3500.

I had someone out at my house the day I went to the Toyo dealership. He was fixing a glass chip in my wife's car. He use to be a lease inspector until he started his on autoglass business. He was shocked they only offered $12K. He went on to say that there is no sign of excessive wear, and since I was within the mileage allowance the final cost for early turn in should not be far from the estimate.

So, I then get a call a couple of days later from the dealership. This time its their fleet & Internet guru. I informed him of what had transpired three days earlier and he said "they were trying to steal your trade." I know, and they were idiots for trying.

Of course, the offer they made on the Tundra including the trade was $24648.46 (V8 SRB 2WD with convenience pkg., and Duluxe 3-in-1 stereo). I asked the floor salesperson if I could get the Tundra for $3500 less than the $24648.46 if I had no trade and she said yes.

Now, the kicker is that the fleet & internet person tells me on the phone that the dealership would never have sold the Tundra for $21148.46 in a no-trade scenario.

I am having serious doubts that Toyota Mall of Georgia in Gwinnet county, Georgia realizes that when someone says 'they use to sell cars' they really mean it. Not only do I have serious doubts about their integrity, but I am bemused at what kind of stunts they would have tried on the backend of a deal!

Now, I have one of the customer service people trying to track me down regarding the fiasco. I think this is a result of my email the fleet & internet sales person a followup asking it to be sent to their general manager in an attempt to correct some floor salespeople from jeopardizing the dealership's image.

kkollwitz · August 2001

I'm considering buying a 2001-model new car which was manufactured before January 3, 2001, based on dates for MSRP increases. I understand that dealers pay interest on cars thru their floor plan until they sell. In the case of a car like this, does this mean the dealer needs a higher profit on the unit to cancel out the accrued interest cost, in which case it is better to shop for a newer car with less of an interest burden?

raybear · August 2001

Just focus on getting a fair deal. Let the dealer worry about interest, floor plan, advertising and keeping the lights on.

rroyce10 · August 2001

..... Good point ...

Terry.

99way2die · August 2001

Hi everyone,

Im plannin to get a HOnda Civic 4 my fiance in bout 20-30 days...we need it, and it seems to be the best car the that price range.

I have 2 questions:
a) with the MSRP of 17600, invoice of 15997..it is to be expected to negociate to vclose the deal at around 16200-16300 ?? with destinatioon charge incld.
b) if I'm willing to put down roughly 6000$ for downpayment, should i be taxed on 6000$ LESS when we close the contract?? how will they write it up if not ?
c) with good credit (assuming) and such a downpayment..what loan rate can i expect from th edealer? (i can get 6.5% from my bank)

Car: Honda Civic EX/Auto with ABS 2001
Area: Central NJ...Open road Honda dealership seems to be the most decent place.

Thank you all in advance....this forum is definitely th emost educating place on car buyng.
Thnx, 99ways2die :-)

im_brentwood · August 2001

1) From what I have seen that or very close to it sure seems doable pricewise

2) You pay sales tax on the sale price. The sales tax credit is only for trade-ins. in NJ Its' 6% IIRC.

3) Ask if they can match or beat it. Otherwise use the bank's $$.

Bill

99way2die · August 2001

Thnx 4 reply.

I'm almost positive that Honda doesnt offer any customer insentives at this time (correct me if im wrong :-)

How can i find out what/if any Manuf. to Dealer insentives exist AND what's the Holdback % on the Civics in central NJ daealerships are?

Can I include the Holdback % in my noegotiations?
(that would bring them below invioce)

Is it a good idea to try e-mail quotes/offers/dealing as a way of buying the car?

Finaly, can anyone recommend a Honda dealership in central NJ (but not limited to central-i can travel all over the state with ease) based on prices/deals/quality of service/honesty and overall experience???

PS: One dealship in Freehold NJ is now excluded in my considerations- due to the service, customer "handling" and overall experience.
(I dont need a salesman to tell me that my custom outfitted and painted, sharp '96 F150 is a "piece of crapp"!.....and i sure dont appreciate when he says to me in the mid-test drive "stop the car, ill drive back to the dealership- well talk there" !!!)

Thank you all in advance...i noticed that you guys are honest in your responses, and any info is greatly appreciated.
99ways2die

99way2die · August 2001

Just got an offer on-line from the dealership that I didnt like (Freehold)! ...funny isnt it?

When i was there in person - we didnt even mention any prices, after a "quick quote" inquiry online at this dealerships web site, they shoot right out with $16,371 for that 2001 EX Civic w/auto.

Now, Edmunds shows $15,997 invoice price on it.
Consumer Guide shows $15,557 for the same car....

Which invoice should i consider?
I know the dealer has to make some profit and im willin to accept that, but which price is right?

I dont want to think that im getting a car just 200-300 $ over invoice, if in fact- the invoice is much lower.

Once again, thanx 4 additional responses.
I dont want to be "hand-held" through this, but i sure do appreciate Your opinions.
99

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