Why buy a "new" car that is damaged. When trading a car just the fact that it has had prev. paint/body work knocks the value 15-20%!!! I'll never buy a USED car that's had body work done much less a "new" one.
If your hail guy is worth his salt, and truly did it "paintless" no appraiser should be able to tell. If the hood or whatever had to be resprayed, yup - you need a BIIIIG discount to offset that one. A good paintless dent guy won't leave a trace - the hood will look like it's always been straight. If he leaves rolling hills, or some small indented areas, he didn't do his job right.
WOW..If there is no catch with that price it would be a great deal on a SI. A lot of my competition will lure people in and then hit them with some sort of BS fees or whatever. If the price stays at 16,900 plus tax only, it's a deal. For alls info. there is no other fees that are legit. Destination has already been factored in the invoice, there is no dealer prep fees. No "doc fees" or any thing else for that matter. I sell a car and it's price plus tax and DMV, period. ...As for the hail damage...be carefull, but if you or the dealership use a good dent guy (Dent Wizard) you could make it look new witha great price..
You say to come in and relax and offer you a fair price and all will be fine. Just what is a fair offer to you? MSRP, Invoice+5%, Invoice+$1000, Invoice, Invoice-$1000 or Invoice-$3000? How do we know? As you can tell from rivertown's example, its not easy to determine. We just come in and offer lower than we think you would possibly take to get the negotiation going. Why does that insult you. You will do the same thing when you're on the buying side of the table.
You also said in #4024 that you will sell us a car for whatever we want. REALLY? Come on now.
"I will lose money all day on cars because I Avg. 2600 on trucks that I sell 10 of a month." I didn't know Honda sold a truck. What's it called?
The car would be kept until it doesn't run anymore. Resale value wouldn't be a big deal then. I was thinking $4K off of TMV for a new Camry could be a good deal.
butt heads here,,,lol..I swear. I just trying to say from doing this for quite a while, there is easier way to do this where you don't feel ripped off, pissed off but instead happy you got the car you wanted with a smile....It starts from the very beginning...
Aren't they even on car-type chassis (except maybe the Pilot)?
I don't get a headache or go home and kick the dog when my offer is turned down. I just move on to the next dealer. Personally, I would prefer the "back and forth" to giving you an extra $500 out of my pocket. Do you have an extra $500 laying around that your not using? I'll take it if you do.
What about trade in. We dealers want a good deal when buying a used car too. but when we offer a low figure all of a sudden you get mad. How do we know what you want for your car??? We go by book value and retail expieriences, so whats wrong with us buying YOUR car for next to nothing...just like you want to buy ours.
The sales pros here are making the point that buying a car should be a simple process. Go in, be friendly, make an offer that is what the dealer is willing to accept, and bingo, you buy a car, fast, easy, and go riding off in the sunset in a shiny car with a smile on your face. Yeah, I like it.
But, it seems like you folks reject a very low offer and don't want to deal with those of that ilk. OK, I'm with you here.
Now, I have a question. I don't see many people walking these days, so where/how do the low offer people buy cars?
they buy them from me if you live in the NYC area. And you didn't seem to read my last few posts. I WILL except a offer that is low, low , low and is still at or a hair under invoice. .......Bigorange..If your read my posts you notice I didn't say 500.00 did I. I didn't say 400.00 did I. I didn't say 300.00 did I. I didn't 200.00 did I. If you need the extra $100.00 bill to purchase a $25,000 brand new Accord, well then let me know how to get it to you. The funny thing is you won't give me $100 bucks but spend 150.00 and spend every weekend for 2 months doing it. I would hope the same reason you want the extra safety features in your car is same reason you want to spend time at home instead of trying to "beat the car salesman". rcovering the country sid
I have had several people make LOOOOWWWW offers and leave without a car. After they research and realize they CAN'T buy one for that they have come back and bought at a FAIR price. more often than not the ones that make offers like that don't understand what kind of offer they are making untill they go to 3 or 4 dealers and get the same result. They then go back to where they weren't "blown out" and buy the car.
"Get the information, Find out my costs, do all those things, but don't take 3 months of research finding out my DEAD cost is 15,000 and get pissed and "walk out" when I won't take and offer of 14,000."
I spent 8 months on my last purchase and that is pretty much normal. It is a leisurely search that begins before I am financially able but as soon as I can see the light at the end of the financial tunnel. I walk lots, sit in cars, take some test drives (I enjoy doing these things anyway). All the while, I am waiting for what appears to be the right time in the market to buy, when the dealers are offering the best prices. I am in the early stages of a search now. This may be sped up by my state legislature who is thinking of increasing the sales tax on cars significantly.
My dad always taught me "Take care of yourself because no one else will." I assume the dealers will take care of themselves since I have never seen one that didn't.
Chorton: I don't mind selling you my trade-in for book trade-in value. That's what I get for mine.
exactly...more or less. See the light or realize that "hey, they really won't lose money on selling a product" However you look at it, why spend weeks, months or even days figuring it out. Ok, Ok, If you want to go to two places and keep each other honest, fair enough. I just trying to say one thing, I don't have to know you from Adam and if you treat me fair and want a CAR for invoice OR EVEN 100 BELOW, I say yes, with out getting out of my chair. What i'm trying to say is if you see in the paper a Civic LX (and thats the one you want) advertised for $14,999 and you research and know the invoice is $15,100 why come in and comb the world and get mad when no one will take $14,000 AND THEN GET MAD AT ME. LOL... Be realistic...........
I applaud taking your time to find your car, you should it's a big decision. when you find your car, don't take another 8 months to save 100.00. In all total 16 months go by and you have to start over looking for a car again...they have all changed...
I'd go crazy if I took 8 months to buy a car. In the first place I Know WHAT I want long before I even think about BUYING anything. and I didn't have to research to find that out. I want a 'VET but want in one hand and @#%& in the other and see which one fills up first!! I just figure what I can afford and find out what I can buy in that range then set out one morning and come home that evening in a new/used car...depending on the deal I run across. If I go find a car I like, and I can afford it I buy it. If I didn't get the best possible deal SO WHAT??? Is $10-15 a month going to hurt me, NO! and if someone got to make some money in the process...fine. Isn't that what we all get up every A.M. for??? I guess some people just can't stand it for someone else to be successful partly on their behalf.
That I think is what most of us are trying to say..It doesn't bother me at all, at all. I am here just trying to show you how you don't have to go thru the trouble of getting mad at me to begin with. What a lot of people don't understand is that they think I am upset over missing their sale and they have just "gotton me" when in fact if you don't buy it I will forget your name in an hour while I sold the same car to someone else for the price I quoted you. In same time frame that customer is still driving around trying to get 50, 100 bucks saved and still getting "no"..
You and I have something in common...doesn't bother me in the least....
good point..If it is Real Estate or pizza or widgets or the stock market...we all make money from someone else. Is your and your familys time that UNvaluable that you want to try to "beat me" out of .5 % of a profit by combing the world for another 100.00 bucks...
Dealer members of this board, I was wondering if there is a preference for you to service cars that are sold by you. For example, I bought my Maxima at dealership A because it was cheaper and had better service. But I get it serviced at dealership B because it's next to where I work. Does dealership B care I didn't buy the car there? My current car was purchased from out of state, but I am thinking about getting a new vehicle and don't want to shunned by the service department "You bought the car from our rival across town, why don't you go get service there."
While my friends were shopping entry level luxury cars (A4, TL, C-class, etc), the Audi/VW dealer said that Audi/VW doesn't provide loan cars as a company policy, but if you bought the car there, then they would give you a service loaner. The salesperson implied that it is done as a courtesy only for their customers. Is this normal?
By the way, I am in the Sacrament area where there seems to be at least two dealers for each brand in the area except Jag/Saab/Hummer within a 30 mile range.
ANY dealer you take your car to SHOULD be happy they can get your service business. They make $$ that way too. However, I can't say if they will resent you for not buying there. If they are fair with their prices, buy there, if not get a price from somewhere else and see if they will match it. If not, talk to the G.M. and explain the situation to him. I bet the whole places attitude will change then.
Just a question- I've had several experiences at different dealerships where I really disliked the first salesperson who "upped" me and my wife. They were either way too aggressive, asking personal questions about income or occupation, how much we want to pay per month, telling us inaccurate things about the car, sometimes doubting my ability to pay (because I didn't come into the dealership in a Zegna suit), etc- the typical "used car salesman" stereotype. We usually try to get the hell out of Dodge when this happens. Then, the 2nd time we visit the dealer, we meet a much nicer and more professional salesperson, with whom we rather do business. I've been told that regardless of whether we were satisfied with the 1st salesperson, he/she will get a cut of the commissions. I've actually purchased cars a competing dealerships over this issue, because I would rather have a more honest and professional salesman get my commission rather than some jerk. Do dealers have some way of dealing with this problem? I've told the GM of dealerships (in front of the 2 salespeople) that I will not buy the car if the 1st obnoxious salesperson will share in the commissions. Apparently, this rule seems to be set in stone-
As a buyer, I like the way you seem to do business. Chorton, too. (Others, too, LOL; but ya'll are active today.)
Yes, Honda, that Si price struck me as good, too. How do you tell if it's a 'grinder' or just a buyer trying for a fair price when somebody makes an offer based on info like that?
ask em the "big" question. "If I sell it to for that would you buy right now?". There are certain cars that we from time to time "blow them out" for one reason or another. The SI was a big disappointment, at least for this area. Over the summer, believe it or not, we chose to lose money on them to get rid of them because they were just growing roots in the pavement here and they were a constant problem of getting vandalized (kids stealing wheels, seats, shifters). So we sold a handfull at 16,000 to get rid of them.
At our store the first salesman would be protected only for 72 hours, and only if he/she logged them in our autobase and actually did a demo drive or presentation of the car. If the customer came back in within that time period and someone else sold them the car and the customer did not ask for the first salesperson it would be a split deal. After 72 hours the customer comes back and doesn't ask for the salesperson that assisted them the first time then the second salesperson gets the commission. However, there's exceptions to this rule. If the first salesperson followed up with the customer and has notes of phone calls etc.. the deal would still be split. You have to realize salespersons work on commission and not on an hourly pay, their time is valuable, while they were helping you and for some reason you didn't buy there could be another customer on the lot that IS buying. : ) Mackabee
Cool! I'd be tempted to spit on the guy who replies, 'No' (but I wouldn't do it, because that would be rude, LOL).
I agree about the Si. Buyers seem to love 'em or hate 'em (I love mine). Some friends of mine wouldn't even go look at 'em 'till they saw ads with prices in the $17K range; the MSRP scared 'em off.
Thats how it works. But we don't do the 72 hr rule. It goes by follow up alone. I have had it work in wy favor and against me, thats just the nature of the beast. I've even been cut out of a deal on a few occasions. Even had to split one b/c the cust. parents had bought from another s.p. it was for him though. Funny thing was I grew up with him. thats life!!
I make it a policy to wear old Wrangler jeans when I shop. Then the questions about personal info come and trying to determine if a financing cut is likely from the deal..., I just dress down and tell them for their end it'll be cash, financed elsewhere.
I recall a turkey farmer & processer who drove his delivery truck for his deliveries to restaurants and stopped at a small town (Richmond, IN) Mercedes dealer and was treated like turkey dirt in his coveralls. He stopped at the Cadillac dealer in Dayton near one of the restaurants as he delivered the next day, was treated like a buyer. He paid green cash ($$$$) for the Cadillac he picked out that day when he picked it up a few days later.
No need to rehash but he has a point, if a salesman is that bad, mention to the sales manager. To go out of the way to make sure he doesn't get paid.....a little much. A simple mentioning to the manager and rest asured, it will be handled.
Sure, I've been on the inconsiderate buyers/sellers boards, but I've never asked this particular question (I don't believe), and I think it's a worthwhile question because I'd like to understand how the commissions process works. What are you guys talking about "do you want to rehash this with him all over again?" What's there to rehash? I'm simply asking if the salesperson who initially "upps" someone always receives part or all of the commission for the sale of a new/used car - and what the criteria for exceptions to this "rule", etc.
What seems to be the problem? That I implied some salespeople aren't always professional or nice? All I was looking for was a response like Mackabee's (thanx)-
Is this- because the car buying process is often perceived by the customer to be a confrontational one- it becomes a much more pleasant and constructive one when the salesperson (and customer) are both honest and professional- ie neither side BS's each other. So when I walk into a dealership, and get "upped", the system is such that I don't have any choice in salespeople. Sometimes the 1st guy is great; sometimes he's pretty bad. Although everyone is different, I don't mind paying more than "the bottom" dollar, (and probably significantly more for all I know), as long as the salesperson is a good guy. On the other hand, I will go to a different dealership if the 1st salesguy is irritating and I have no choice but to give the whole/half/any of the commission to him. This is a large purchase, one that should be an enjoyable one, and I would prefer not to give a large commission to someone that made this transaction an unpleasant one. That's why I want to know if there's any way that the 2nd, nicer and professional salesperson can somehow get the commission that the 1st guy doesn't deserve! Is this an inappropriate question?
Realtors, lawyers, doctors, home appliance/electronics sales- if you meet a salesperson and don't like them, you're under no obligation to continue your relationship with them or to buy anything from them. If I go to Sears to buy a washer/dryer, and really disliked the salesperson, I could come back the next week and buy it from a different guy, no problem (I think). Same with lots of other professions, etc- just my opinion. That's why I don't think that the a bad salesperson who "upps" me and spends 15 minutes with me should always receive a commission regardless of what happens thereafter-
Dealers/salesmen: do people come in asking about XM or Sirius Satellite radio? Are they interested in this new technology? Are you moving a lot of units? Or is this just another "extra". like undercoating, that you have to push hard on people?
I understand m5's question and agree with him. We have heard it many times over on these boards from dealers "Don't buy from the screamer store, you reward them with a sale for lousy customer service." M5 is just taking it to the next level. If an "up" sales person makes his buying experience unpleasant why should he get rewarded and the guy that made the experience nice get shafted by half the commission? He is just asking if there is a way to avoid this and make sure the guy that gave bad customer service does not get "rewarded" and the guy that gave good customer service does.
We are thinking about buying a Saab 9-3, walked onto the lot for a test drive a few weeks ago, and got the first salesman available. Now that we may be ready to buy, I suspect it will be easier and less expensive to go the Internet route rather than dealing with the salesman. But, is it bad form to bypass the salesman and solicit an offer via the Internet? The salesman wasn't bad, wasn't great (didn't come with us on the test drive, so we didn't take up too much of his time), but I'm not enthused about having to spend a lot of time haggling, which I suspect will be the case. Complicating matters, it's the only Saab dealership in the area, so we can't just work with another dealer. Should we go the Internet route and come in on his day off, should we start with him and if we're not happy then go the Internet route, should we go the Internet route but tell them that we worked with this particular salesman? We don't want to be jerks, but we also don't want to be jerked around.
It is fair question, I would say to contact the dealership via the internet but when you contact someone, or they contact you, let them know that you have already dealt with a salesman and they just may let you deal with him and access the internet pricing. Either way you will be handled in the proper way.
Concerning the commission story. I don't think taking to the "next level" is such a good idea. Taking it to the "next level" is what caused the problems between customes and honest salesman to begin with. There a lot of times, a lot, that someone may spend a lot of time with a customer and when they return the next day to purchase and the original salesman on his day off gets cut out all together...trust me, happens more than your issue. Am I led to believe you will defend him as well....uh no. If you are unhappy with your salesman, just mention to the General Manager and it will handled, trust me. To invest now more time to worry who is getting paid now as well...comendable, but excessive...
I think that it is wonderful that there are customers out there who have a conciense. As a sales consultant, we are thrilled when customers ask for us or even call and leaves a message. It is our job to provide excellent customer service and when we are given the opportunity to continue to help someone who wasn't ready to buy the first time they came in, it is a great feeling. To me it lets me know that I truely earned my money and not just got a lucky up is great. Follow up is also important in this business, especially since not everyone knows or has the courtesy to realize that we are on commision. I am also a consumer and have become a more aware customer since I started my part-time job 2 years ago. If you do not think your s.p. is not the right person to work with, have the respect to spend the least of his time. Of course if he does not even go on the test drive with you, that to me shows that the s.p. does not think you are important enough to spend the time with. I have been in this situation and I personally did not buy from this person, or even this dealership. Some people may not mind this, I realize, but who is to say that while you are the test drive alone, possibly getting lost, that the s.p. is maybe out working with another customer. Different dealerships have different rules on the commisions/splits, but trust me the s.p. know these rules. There is really no reason that the customer should know these rules. Things always get worked out, and I have also gotten used to the idea that every one gets what they deserve. Even if it may not happen right away. I follow the rule of treat others the way you would like to be treated. It works:)!
do I want a stinker rewarded. BUT, it still ain't the customer's business who gets paid what.
We all have responsibilities, but managing a sales staff is not one the customer's responsibilities. If the dealership gets us a salesguy we can work with, the dealership has met it's responsibility to us. If Joe Jerk the salesguy is alienating customer after customer, he'll get canned (or promoted, LOL) - reflecting the dealer's attitude about customer service. We get our say when the CSI comes, in asking for a different salesguy, or in walking; but it just ain't our call how the dealership manages it's employees. Think 'boundaries'. There's enough disrespect in a carbuy as it is. The customer adding to it helps not at all. Haven't you seen enough of 'two wrongs make a right' thinking to refrain from adding to it?
exactly....A bad salesman only makes it even worse. That's why I mentioned just telling in a polite way your experience with the bad salesman with the G.M. and as I mentioned it will get ironed out. As anyone in the biz can tell you if it was bad enough to mention it to the G.M. the commission will be the lease worry for the troubled salesman.
Some dealers may have a policy that requires salespeople to ride along on test drives. Other dealers may allow customers to drive alone. To eliminate a dealer because a salesperson did or did not come along for the ride strikes me as silly, even immature.
Maybe salespeople should tell the customer upfront that they have to come along. Or offer the customer a choice, with or without.
Comments
You also said in #4024 that you will sell us a car for whatever we want. REALLY? Come on now.
"I will lose money all day on cars because I Avg. 2600 on trucks that I sell 10 of a month." I didn't know Honda sold a truck. What's it called?
Trust me.
I don't get a headache or go home and kick the dog when my offer is turned down. I just move on to the next dealer. Personally, I would prefer the "back and forth" to giving you an extra $500 out of my pocket. Do you have an extra $500 laying around that your not using? I'll take it if you do.
But, it seems like you folks reject a very low offer and don't want to deal with those of that ilk. OK, I'm with you here.
Now, I have a question. I don't see many people walking these days, so where/how do the low offer people buy cars?
"Get the information, Find out my costs, do all those things, but don't take 3 months of research finding out my DEAD cost is 15,000 and get pissed and "walk out" when I won't take and offer of 14,000."
So, they come back when they see the light!
My dad always taught me "Take care of yourself because no one else will." I assume the dealers will take care of themselves since I have never seen one that didn't.
Chorton: I don't mind selling you my trade-in for book trade-in value. That's what I get for mine.
Be realistic...........
I have had several sales people get pretty mad at me, and it doesn't bother me the least.
You and I have something in common...doesn't bother me in the least....
I was wondering if there is a preference for you to service cars that are sold by you. For example, I bought my Maxima at dealership A because it was cheaper and had better service. But I get it serviced at dealership B because it's next to where I work. Does dealership B care I didn't buy the car there? My current car was purchased from out of state, but I am thinking about getting a new vehicle and don't want to shunned by the service department "You bought the car from our rival across town, why don't you go get service there."
While my friends were shopping entry level luxury cars (A4, TL, C-class, etc), the Audi/VW dealer said that Audi/VW doesn't provide loan cars as a company policy, but if you bought the car there, then they would give you a service loaner. The salesperson implied that it is done as a courtesy only for their customers. Is this normal?
By the way, I am in the Sacrament area where there seems to be at least two dealers for each brand in the area except Jag/Saab/Hummer within a 30 mile range.
Yes, Honda, that Si price struck me as good, too. How do you tell if it's a 'grinder' or just a buyer trying for a fair price when somebody makes an offer based on info like that?
: )
Mackabee
I agree about the Si. Buyers seem to love 'em or hate 'em (I love mine). Some friends of mine wouldn't even go look at 'em 'till they saw ads with prices in the $17K range; the MSRP scared 'em off.
I recall a turkey farmer & processer who drove his delivery truck for his deliveries to restaurants and stopped at a small town (Richmond, IN) Mercedes dealer and was treated like turkey dirt in his coveralls. He stopped at the Cadillac dealer in Dayton near one of the restaurants as he delivered the next day, was treated like a buyer. He paid green cash ($$$$) for the Cadillac he picked out that day when he picked it up a few days later.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What seems to be the problem? That I implied some salespeople aren't always professional or nice? All I was looking for was a response like Mackabee's (thanx)-
We've got a say over what we pay and what we pay it for, but we've got no say over what the dealership does with the bucks we pay 'em.
Concerning the commission story. I don't think taking to the "next level" is such a good idea. Taking it to the "next level" is what caused the problems between customes and honest salesman to begin with. There a lot of times, a lot, that someone may spend a lot of time with a customer and when they return the next day to purchase and the original salesman on his day off gets cut out all together...trust me, happens more than your issue. Am I led to believe you will defend him as well....uh no. If you are unhappy with your salesman, just mention to the General Manager and it will handled, trust me. To invest now more time to worry who is getting paid now as well...comendable, but excessive...
To me it lets me know that I truely earned my money and not just got a lucky up is great.
Follow up is also important in this business, especially since not everyone knows or has the courtesy to realize that we are on commision. I am also a consumer and have become a more aware customer since I started my part-time job 2 years ago.
If you do not think your s.p. is not the right person to work with, have the respect to spend the least of his time. Of course if he does not even go on the test drive with you, that to me shows that the s.p. does not think you are important enough to spend the time with. I have been in this situation and I personally did not buy from this person, or even this dealership. Some people may not mind this, I realize, but who is to say that while you are the test drive alone, possibly getting lost, that the s.p. is maybe out working with another customer.
Different dealerships have different rules on the commisions/splits, but trust me the s.p. know these rules. There is really no reason that the customer should know these rules. Things always get worked out, and I have also gotten used to the idea that every one gets what they deserve. Even if it may not happen right away. I follow the rule of treat others the way you would like to be treated. It works:)!
We all have responsibilities, but managing a sales staff is not one the customer's responsibilities. If the dealership gets us a salesguy we can work with, the dealership has met it's responsibility to us. If Joe Jerk the salesguy is alienating customer after customer, he'll get canned (or promoted, LOL) - reflecting the dealer's attitude about customer service.
We get our say when the CSI comes, in asking for a different salesguy, or in walking; but it just ain't our call how the dealership manages it's employees.
Think 'boundaries'. There's enough disrespect in a carbuy as it is. The customer adding to it helps not at all. Haven't you seen enough of 'two wrongs make a right' thinking to refrain from adding to it?
Maybe salespeople should tell the customer upfront that they have to come along. Or offer the customer a choice, with or without.