Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
If one doesn't enjoy that sort of thing, doing a clean deal over the net works.
I can remember back in the late 90s when I was just a college kid getting my CS degree and working at a small factory in the summer. The owner wanted to set up an internet store for his goods and had me evaluate all the brochures and info he had collected. I told him that none were very good, so I went and did my own research into web hosts for him. I could not find any that were satisfactory to me that were anywhere near his price range. Thus, he ignored me, made his own decision and now has a bad website, just like many of the car dealers in the area.
Here is my example: I'm helping my dad to buy a 2003 toyota corolla LE. I was trying to get a price quote over the net. I checked Carsdirect, checked Edmunds and I just want to find out the price of the car in my area. So I sent a request to a local dealer "internet department". Here is a transcript of my emails with the dealership:
I will omit the name of the person and dealership name.
so here it is:
Dear Dmitry,
My name is XXXXXX, and I am exclusively dedicated to working on your 2003 Toyota Corolla request. Here at "XXXXXXX Toyota" you will be treated to quick responses to all your questions.
We eliminate the hassle and haggle of buying a Toyota. I take pride in working out the best price by email or phone to get you to your desired goal. I will be contacting you very soon to find out the best way to assist you on your 2003 Toyota Corolla
I will be in touch
My responce:
Hi XXXXXXX,
Thanks for your quick reply. I would like to communicate by e-mail, since I don't have a constant access to the phone at my work. As per my request, I would like to get a price for 2003 Toyota corolla LE automatic in silver color and no additional options. Please send me the price that includes all rebates and additional fees that charged by your dealership excluding TTL.
Thanks again
Dmitry
His responce:
Hi Dmitry
The LE is the most compact and reliable car for the low price of $15,789.
The only other cost would be your tax and your tags.
Deals like this don't come around often so don't delay.
I take pride in working straight from my email quotes, so when you come in you should ask for me to receive the special offer.
Talk to you soon.
My responce:
Thank you XXXXXX for your quote.
It seems to me that your price is much higher that the one I got from carsdirect.com for the same configuration $14,336. Your price is only $176 off MSRP and it doesn't looks like include a $500 rebate offer from Toyota. Did you include the rebate in your offer? I'm using internet strictly to avoid haggling, so I would appreciate if you give me your best price including rebates and fees and I will treat it as absolute final price that you able to offer.
Thanks again,
Dmitry
his responce:
Dear Dmitry
I will match your Carsdirect price with no problem. But I need to know if that was plus destination cost.
I gave you a quote a little high to start off. If I started from your number we would not have any where to go. I hope you can understand.
Talk to you soon.
my responce:
XXXXXX,
Thanks for your quick reply. Yes this price includes destination charges ( according to carsdirect.com). As I said in my previous e-mail I would like to avoid getting back and forth with offers and counteroffers, so I treat every quote as absolutely final and lowest price you are able to offer.So I will treat $14,336 as your final offer. If we decided to go ahead and purchase this car trough your dealership I will contact you as soon as possible.
Thanks again,
Dmitry
no responces from that dealership.
So please tell me, What is the advantage of internet shopping? From my expirience its the same as going to dealership and doing back and forth negotiating which I was trying to avoid.
Did I do something wrong? Was my request not specific enough? Isn't "internet price" should be a no hustle price and at least compatitive?
I woul like to hear your feedbacks.
Thanks,
Dmitry
Dealers will never advertize their lowest possible selling price since that would divert all trade to the one with the lowest overhead costs, who could afford to sell $20 lower than all others. So they will always leave some fat in the price.
There are other facts of life too. Like the fact that there will always be some customers who will grind to get that last $50 just so they can be sure nobody bought a similar car for less. And there will be some customers who are content buying with minimal haggling, and don't care if they spent a couple hundred $ more than someone else. And yet others would not be content if the dealer gave them the car - there would be something wrong with the deal.
Go figure.
We all know that people don't buy cars on the internet they research cars on the internet....the road is littered with alot of companies who were going to show dealers how to sell cars on the internet....even selling cars for thousands less than dealers the consumers ignored them and purchased from real life car dealers.....
Dealer websites are essentially advertising. But from a sales standpoint those same advertising dollars spent on newspaper, radio and television advertisng create showroom traffic and sales.
Internet leads generated via a website/services have a tiny closing rate (national avgs) and are generally more work than a showroom sale. As a retailer, which market gets the largest percentage of your dollars? Do you focus on 14 year olds trying to buy RX-8 on the internet or a guy 700 miles away trying to get leverage on their local dealer or a showroom full of real customers?
"I gave you a quote a little high to start off. If I started from your number we would not have any where to go. I hope you can understand"
I should understand what? That the "internet price" is another game that dealership invented to create an illusion that you are getting a better price then if you just walk in. What is the difference then? I'm not very good in negotiating, and I'm not trying to squeeze another $50. I just want to save myself time and get a competitive price for a car.
IMO, the real advantage of the net is that you can contact a lot of dealers easily and then decide who you want to do business with.
Dunno why you'd want to unless it's location, but if you want to do business with this guy - I'd say your next step is to make him an offer based on pricing data you're confident of. He takes it or he doesn't; and you're done negotiating.
So, I don't think you've done anything wrong. You've simply run into a haggler.
No, I arrived at this price simply logging into Carsdirect.com.
Again, what is the point of "internet price"? What is the advantages of it? Why I should go back and forth with the dealer to get their price. Isn't I was trying to avoid at the first place? It doesn't matter for me: haggling by emails or at the dealership in person is the same!
Dmitry
If the guy comes in at $XX, and you want another $500, and he's at his bottom dollar, he can't go further, and you'll go elsewhere. You may not get $500 better, but if you get $20 better, most people will buy - the first dealer will never hear from you again.
If the dealer starts a little higher, you want to negotiate anyway (please don't say you don't), and the dealer can drop the price and keep your business.
In the previous post, the dealer matched the offer - why isn't Dear Old Dad driving a new Corolla yet?
I was asking about the difference between internet price and the price you get at the dealership. That dealer said : "We eliminate the hassle and haggle of buying a Toyota" I think he failed to do so.
And my Dad? He bought Mazda Protege. Because it was toss' up between the two. The dealer that we walked in (5 min from his house not like toyota 30+min)gave us a good price (similar to Carsdirect)without any haggling what so ever.
The hagglers haggle; no way around that other than shopping till you contact a cut-to-the-chase guy. Some don't haggle. Finding 'em on the net is BUNCH easier than driving around.
LOL, I'm remembering one salesguy who came in with a quote $2.5K over what I ended up paying and $3.4K over the best "What did you pay" thread price I found. Could I have gotten that quote down by $3K? Probably. But it just isn't worth the time or fretting.
As previously mentioned, it takes a major Net investment to do it right, from the website design (many flavors of which are available prepackaged for auto dealers) to the day-to-day support of keeping the availability lists updated to the dedicated Net personnel that probably work Emails-R-Us because they are burned out from the face-to-face of the sales floor. Given the high turnover of auto sales people of any type, there would be a constant training period for new Net sales people so that's another investment to make.
In the last two weeks my son helped his girlfriend buy a new Mazda and I helped a relative lease a new Acura TL with a trade-in. Since both of us communicate every day via emails and the Net, that was our first choice in car shopping. Combining three Mazda dealers and a half-dozen Acura dealers, not a single one had a decent Net infrastructure or dedicated sales staff to make it work. On to Plan B...
Remember, the vast majority of dealers still use early 1970s computer (barely) technology in their F&I departments to generate POs and other docs - why would they spend big bucks on the Net when ancient technology like newspaper ads apparently work better?
So how did we get the best deal on the Acura & Mazda? Simple - called the dealerships and found out the SM's name and fax number and sent a one-pager outlining what we wanted, when it would be purchased, contact numbers, etc. We also indicated they had a one-time shot if they decided to respond. Same technique used for about ten years now.
Every dealership except one - that one couldn't refill their fax with paper ("the person that does that is not in right now") responded within a business day. There was a clear winner in the Acura stack (you will know this when the other Acura dealers call you as follow-up, hear the winning bid number, and say - "they won't do the deal for that - it's a lowball" - well, I've never failed to complete these deals) and the Mazda quotes all came back within a hundred bucks of each other ($15k econocar after rebate so not much margin to work on).
Now what turned out to be more important was that I had the "winning" Acura quote in my hand when my relative went thru the F&I routine - quite a difference between my confirmed, documented numbers and what the SM at the sales desk gave to F&I. It appeared to be more of a confusion problem than a deliberate miscalculation; once that was pointed out, however, the deal was done for the quoted numbers and we were done inside two hours, even with the trade-in evaluation.
For the curious, all the Acura dealers said their bid could not be final until they physically evaluated the trade (absolutely fair request) but we knew that wouldn't be a problem - and it wasn't.
Bottom line is that the Net is a wonderful tool - but it will be years and years until it's adopted by auto dealers as anything but a Pretend Tool.
1. Located the car I wanted on the Infinit web site ('03 M45 with all options, black with willow inside) - identified the dealer that had that car, and sent them an email.
2. That dealer (Pepe Infiniti in White Plains, NY) called back to confirm that they in fact did have the car and the Internet sales rep asked some basic qualifying questions.
3. The sales rep called a few hours later with a lease quote - which was excellent. I told him I would meet him the following Saturday to go over the numbers and sign the deal if everything worked out.
4. I went on Saturday, they appraised my trade, and I signed the deal.
That was the least painful process I have ever been through to acquire a new car and trade an existing one. Seems like it can work, depends a lot on the people involved at both ends of the transaction.
It worked. Out of about 15 places I emailed, 6 responded. 2 of those were under MSRP and 1 was clearly a good deal. This was about 2 years ago.
I also tried this method recently on another new and high-demand vehicle. We pretty much came up with the same end result, but it did take a bit longer and a few back-and-forths with less up-front places to get there.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We have several dealers in our area that might hae a car I might want to buy. I start with the deasler where I would prefer to have my car serviced, due to location, service reputation etc. I figure the pain over the 4-year (or whatever) warranty period is a significant consideration. Yes, I know I don't have to have it serviced where I buy it, but I start with the ideal situation and go from there. I go in person.
I do my research to learn the right price for the car and the realistic value for the trade, and offer the difference less a couple hundred. I usually buy at the first place I go to, and my price is always in the ball park. Simple.
Lots of businesses use newspaper, radio, and TV ads poorly. And they've had how many years of trying? Why would anyone expect that the internet would be used any better?
Ed
Will businesses continue to ignore it? I say not forever. You will eventually see the phasing out of all these old-timer owners and operators and the computer-fluent generation will take over. That's when you will see changes in this department.
Alfox - actually, I'm in Jersey. Not a huge amount of subaru dealers. And even less that you can actually find email contact info. for. That's the real trick. Being able to track down that elusive contact info.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Dmitry, my take in your case is you sent in a request on a Corolla LE with no options. In my region all LE's come with added options, cruise, am/cm/cass and cd, etc. which makes the average MSRP $16,600.00 for an Automatic. You offered a carsdirect price which was probably just the base price and seems you had an inexperienced net guy on the other end who didn't know how to handle your request. Normally what I do when I receive a request like that is "educate" the customer. Tell them about the way cars are optioned out in my region and also direct them to the manufacturer's website to "verify" what I've just told them. I quote a very competitive price and also tell them what else is included with the car that our dealership offers. This month I've been deluded with e-mails from sub-prime customers or as we refer to in the business as "get me done's" these have taken an enormous amount of my time and for the most part can't buy a car due to their "poor" credit. I do update our webpage on a daily basis and the hardest part is our used car inventory as we have an outside source take pictures of the vehicles and upload the information to another outside source, which sometimes get their signals crossed and upload vehicles that have already been sold. I do try my best to keep the inventory up to date as much as humanly possible.
: )
Mackabee
We have a device that allows us to enter a 7 to 10 digit number and reach anyone in North America - in person.
;^)
I agree but that teeny-tiny bit of extra effort it takes to walk over and dial a telephone weeds out alot of dreamers and kids from wasting alot of email space....
I have nothing against the internet and have found it helpful in sellings cars but a telephone shopper or showroom shopper is many more times likely to be a real buyer than email or internet customers.
I was back in my car exiting the lot in under 2 minutes after that response...don't think I want to deal with this dealership...
Regards... Vikd
That's when I should have left...
I agree, effective websites and a straight shooting internet sales orientation aren't universal. Notta biggie. In the time it takes to mess around with a traditional 'negotiation', you can shop 20 dealers on the net.
Net contact info? Most manufacturer's sites have dealer locator buttons that will get you to the sites of dealers who at least try to do net. Simple.
I always found it interesting how men will almost always trot out the old, "I'll have to check with my wife," while women almost never say this.
I went to a Chrysler "Customer One" sales conference in Colorado Springs, CO in 1994. the speaker, speaking to 350 people, 28 of whom were women, asked us all to hold up our checkbooks. Out of 350 people, all but one of the women had their checkbook. Only 32 of the men did, and 28 of those were single men.
Yes, you do need to ask permission......
haha
I told her to check the answering machine at home and her voice mail on her cell. So wives, if your husband is paying for a cell phone for you to carry around, it might be a good idea to turn in on occassionally.
Ironically, she was shopping all day long. Probably the one and only day I outshopped her
TB
The customer asks "You have to call your wife, too?"
"Yeah, to make sure I can sell it for that".
Same deal, right?
That's because most women will never admit they married another woman - just too sensitive, I guess.
If I bought a car without consulting the wife I'd better be able to live in it.
landru--always found it interesting how men will almost always trot out the old, "I'll have to check with my wife," while women almost never say this. I am with jeff on that one. I would hope you do not get too many of those.
Or something like that. You guys know what I meant! :^)
example
selling price $20,000
trade in (5,000)
--------
cash diff. 15,000
sales tax 6% 900
total $15,900
rebate (1000)
----------
total amount due $14,900
My question is this---Why do dealers run ads with the price including the rebate when they know that the rebate will be taxed?
In your example, the ad would say $19K as opposed to $20K. I would reasonably assume that the tax is calculated on $19K minus trade value.
Let's see... gotta wait for the automated message to play first .... oh, now I've got the secretary who has the attitude that she'd rather be somewhere else right now .... ok, she puts me on hold while she tries to find someone to help me .... about 3 minutes later, she comes back on to tell me that someone will be with me in a minute .... another 4 minutes go by and all of a sudden the phone is ringing again .... the secretary picks up again and asks if she can help me ... so I explain to her that I've been holding to talk to someone. she apparently doesn't recognize my voice or realize that she was talking to me 4 minutes ago, but she'll try to find someone .... so another few minutes go by and I finally get someone .... I could tell you that this person knows nothing and needs to find someone else, etc. etc. But let's say this guy TRIES to help me at least. Well now I gotta go through my whole story about the car I want, but I've gotta go slow so he can write it all down, take my name, number, etc. etc. Then I gotta wait while he goes to check inventory or take a stroll around the lot or whatever it is he does that takes 10 minutes to get back to me..... and on and on and on.
Need I go on? Even if you boiled this down to the part where I gotta spell everything out for someone to jot it all down on the other side of the phone, isn't it just MUCH easier for me to write it all out and click a little button and it zips right over to the dealership? Then you, as the salesperson, have it in writing and can take your sweet time doing what you need to do with it while I can mow my lawn or bathe my dog or do whatever it is I gotta do with my life while waiting for a response?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If the dealers and salespeople took the time to read the email and answer all the questions correctly and accurately, I would bet you get some pretty strong leads.... I would think most of the people shooting off emails to dealers are pretty specific and well educated to what they want, and are your more serious buyers. could be wrong.... I'm not on there end receiving them, but I also bet its pretty easy to tell the difference between a real lead and a dead lead.
butch - its not quite that easy, but if you just copy and paste the email and send it to enough dealers, it increases your odds greatly at getting a positive response.
Which is another big advantage to the email over the phone. We're talking at least an average of 10 minutes per dealership on the phone vs. 10 seconds to copy, paste, and send an email.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That's life. Deal with it.