Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

landru2 · September 2001

is apparently different than in the U.S.

Ford's holdback here is only 2% of invoice which is much less than the 3% of MSRP that Edmunds says is Ford's holdback. Just something to keep in mind for the Canadian shoppers.

jkink88 · September 2001

It would seem that one's perspective on the world would dictate one's reaction to the events that occur in it.... If you read my post again and imagine that I'm being pleasantly sarcastic in noting your response, as is the case, perhaps you would not feel so 'attacked'. My response to you was intended to extinguish that raging fire of comedy before it got out of control! It's true that afk_x started this horrific blaze of fun but I think he understood my point - the fact that I capitalized ORDERED because that's the emphasis of my question. His HILARIOUS (and subtle!) imitation of my post was not lost on me. Do you have any idea how many people have answered that very same question incorrectly on different BB because they didn't read the question properly? Sometimes you need a sledgehammer.... like capitalization! As always, I greatly appreciate all of the responses I have received from people willing to take the time to reply.... I just appreciate the ones that answer the question asked more. Wait a second.... Holy Cow! I don't think I answered a single one of YOUR questions! Ohh.. the irony! Now.... since this is a BB to talk about cars and I have no desire to drive all the way out to the mid west to smack you around.... let's just move on shall we?

(By now, of course, you know I'm just 'joshin' ya, right? RIGHT?)

rworrell · September 2001

I'm KIDDING, of course. I'm glad you responded, and I do understand your point.

Do we HAVE to talk about cars on a car-related BB?

LOL!

Good luck on your purchase!

rroyce10 · September 2001

.... This holdback discussion has been going on for months.

The reality is: Holdback is not a profit source for any dealer, whether he sells 25 cars a month or 250 cars a month -- holdback tries to to accomplish one thing ( and the word here being "tries" ) to offset the floorplan cost of any inventory sitting and inbound. As a rule, depending on the how the dealer has set up his business, he will pay a 1/4 point over prime on everything, every month... Run that number over $4,000,000 .. and that's before the key hit's the door in the AM ....

Maybe this makes some sense ..

Terry.

bolivar · September 2001

I sorry, you are correct, I did not correctly read your original post. I totally missed the 'next week' in your first sentence.

If you are interested in my opinions, here are a few more.

Not giving you a specific opinion about a Jeep, it is my understanding they are almost begging to sell these things. I also think there are extensive rebates and dealer cash on Jeep products. Therefore you might want to rethink a special order, and attempt to find an acceptable vehicle in stock and try for the rebates and dealer cash.

Per other posters, the 'holdback' is to support the dealer's interest payments on in-stock vehicles. This should lead to a dealer giving all or some of the holdback to the purchaser of an ordered vehicle, since it will incur no interest charges to him. (But I bet you will not be able to get into his rebate.)

If you do order something, don't give a bundle of money to the dealer. I would think $200 to $500 would be plenty. Get something signed that this is totally refundable if the car is not delivered in a reasonable time. Get a statement from the dealer about 'reasonable delivery time'. They know how long it takes to get a car. Have this written in the order/contract. Read the order contract. Line out things you don't like, and add in the latest acceptable delivery date. Just write on the contract form. You initial and manager inital the lineouts and addins, it will be legal.

The dealer might say that they can't agree to a delivery date, probably refer to the current terrorist situation. Tell they if they can't build the car in a reasonable time, you don't want to wait forever either, especially when they will have some of your money. A specific date for delivery will then protect both of you.

jkink88 · September 2001

Thank you, thank you, thank you.... I appreciate the advice.... it certainly helps me out a lot. In a possibly interesting side note, you might be amazed if I told you that I actually was a car salesman for about 3 months.. this was 6 years ago when I was a young kid. I am not kidding when I say that words cannot express how much I hated that job. I was there long enough to learn some things (particularly about human nature) but not long enough that I can answer my own questions.... obviously! Of course, a lot of things have changed in the car business in the last few years.... I think anyone would be hard pressed to keep up with it all. I will surely use all of the advice I am getting to feel good about purchasing a Jeep at a good price.... Thanks again.... JK

rbrenton88 · September 2001

I think people needlessly argue over this (for years from what I've seen here) because they leave out the terms gross vs. net when referring to the profit.
It is in fact net on an ordered car (because THAT car has cost the dealer little or no holding cost), but that money is used to cover the expense of the sale-proof car rotting in the back of the lot. So I say, Net profit on the ordered car, but Gross in broader terms. So you're all correct to some degree.

My point? I don't know.

rroyce10 · September 2001

......... You are going to be hard pressed to get a dealer to give up ..any.. holdback.

Like rb88 has just mentioned, it may not be there for a "Sold" incoming -- but it certainly will help pay for that Star Wars painted $40,000 GC Limited ...

Terry.

bolivar · September 2001

rroyce10, yea I know you aren't going to get any of the holdback of a dealer.

I mainly posted that because the salesmen always say holdback is to pay for the floorplan interest being paid on an instock car. If this was true, you should be able to get the holdback on an ordered car.

Buy it's profit for the dealership, and they aren't going to give it up.

afk_x · September 2001

500 over seems beatable. Heck I just read about some guy who bought a 2002 Passat for 1700 under invoice!

rroyce10 · September 2001

..... When the figures fall behind invoice, it happens from 2 reasons. The rebates or the dealer cash (trunk money) was given up, which is normal.

I guarantee your Passat friend didn't see a dime of holdback -- as it should be. If the dealer gives up all the dealer cash and rebate monies that would the 2 reasons why the selling figures fall below invoice.

Terry.

bulkleycorp · September 2001

Gentlemen,

Close to closing a deal on a slightly used Maxima,
price is right, etc. I have a 1991 Volvo 740 that I want to offer as a trade - 125K miles, good-very good condition - well maintained, etc...UNFORTUNATELY...the #%$^ A/C just failed. Took it to an indy repair shop - cost would be $1K to fix.

Car is fine, except for AC - would a non-working AC kill a trade-in? Thx.

rroyce10 · September 2001

...... It's not winter yet, so even in CT they need some cold breeze --

Shop around, if a service dept is saying you need a $1,000 in repair in air ... I'm sure with a little lookin', you can find someone that can do it for a lot less (like $300) or let the dealer shave off the $1,000 off the trade ... it's your choice ...

Terry.

rickpct · September 2001

Thanks. I've already been 3 places - two indy garages and the dealer. all are quoting $1K due to bad compressor and hose, plus the conversion to R134A (might as well do that due to cost of freon).

Maybe I'll wait for the first 10 degree day and see what I can haggle.

rroyce10 · September 2001

...Good thinkin' --- but, you didn't hear it from me ...

Terry.

isellhondas · October 2001

Just thinking...I wonder if the buyers who want our holdback dollars might be willing to pay for part of our overhead?

Do ya think so?

tboner1965 · October 2001

FWIW, my 87 LeSabre finally let out all of it's R12 12 days ago.

I had it in the shop last week. The cracked aluminum line was welded, all new o-rings fitted, a new dryer and of course the R134 gas and labor, $363.21 I didn't need a new compressor since this car already had a replacement that had suitable for R12 and R134a on the unit.

I dunno what a new compressor costs, but the cost of a compressor and hose and another couple of hours labor...

Another thing to check is the compressor clutch. My clutch solenoid was bad last year. So while many would think a new compressor was needed, instead only a $70 part and another hour labor was all that was needed. Didn't even need to open the system. So that is another thing to check.

Of course I plan on driving this car another couple of years. It's going to roll over to 90K late this week or early next, depending on how many service calls I get this week.

FWIW

TB

rroyce10 · October 2001

...... Not in this lifetime ...l...o....l...

Terry.

jusdreamin · October 2001

Well, I don't see the point in starting a new discussion for a question, so this is as good a place as any.

I ordered a copy of my credit report from Experian, and they gave me my Experian score. Does anybody know how to translate it into a FICO score?

FICO seems to be the standard and it would be helpful if I'm able to give people a number that they can relate to.

Thanks.

im_brentwood · October 2001

FICO and Beacon and Experien..etc are one and the same.

The score is not the be-all, end-all though...

Bill

jusdreamin · October 2001

Thanks. I didn't realize that they were the same.

But... I remember reading that FICO went up to 900, yet Experian went up to only 820. Why is that?

BTW, I know it's not the be-all and end-all. It's nice to be able to use it to see if I qualify for the promo rates before I start wheeling and dealing.

im_brentwood · October 2001

Well...

A) WHat's your score?

Have you had automotive credit or a Mortgage before?

C) Do you make, say, $4,000 per month and have $2,500 in current obligations?

That's the stuff that's all important!

A 670 beacon and "No" answers to B and C would probably qualify, But a 750 beacon based on 2 credit cards with a total high credit of $500 would not.

Bill

jusdreamin · October 2001

Thanks. Let's just say if that's the case, I shouldn't have any problems qualifying.

im_brentwood · October 2001

Good

williamshim · October 2001

Looking for a new car? What are you looking at?

guadeloupe · October 2001

Sorry, I hope this isn't a tangent for this thread, but saw the last post and thought I'd jump in.

I live in Oregon and am going to buy my first (and last) new truck in twenty years next month.

2002 Toyota Prerunner. I've scoured these threads looking for which way to go to get the best deal, but I am still unsure.

First, do you folks think it would be possible to purchase a 2002 Toyota for US$500 over invoice?

Someone, perhaps on this thread, suggested just going to the dealer rather than going to CarsDirect or AutoByTel for the best deal.

This will be a cash deal with no trade-in.

So, am I dreaming? What's the easiest and best way?

My apologies if this should have been on a new thread.

Any information would be GREATLY appreciated!

isellhondas · October 2001

Go to your Toyota dealer and make an offer.

It's the market that determines pricing. I have no idea how hard to get these trucks may be.

The Portland marketplace is especially cutthroat.

Good Luck!

jusdreamin · October 2001

Ford Mustang. Not sure about which one though. Insurance will most likely have a say in it.

jusdreamin · October 2001

Sorry if I misspelled your name.

Check out the Toyota web site. They should list all the incentives and rebates for the Prerunner there.

Since the 2002's have just come out, it's difficult to determine what you can get one for. Isellhondas hit it right on the money though.

esto · October 2001

isell, could you please expand on what makes the Portland marketplace cutthroat?
I live in Portland, and I'd be interested in your insight (I know there's lots of screamer
ads in the Oregonian). Thanks!

Erik

mannymoe · October 2001

I am looking at a couple of new model 2002, very in demand cars (according to the dealers). Is there any room to work them under MSRP when there is a waiting list on the cars? I understand the dealer and salesperson need to make money, but full MSRP seems incredible at this time. I am looking at the new ES 300 and don't want to pay full MSRP, but the car is nice enough; I may justify it to myself anyway. Also, MDX's aren't new, but I have had trouble finding them at anything below sticker.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Any advice on

rroyce10 · October 2001

.......... I think perhaps the problem is not the "demand", but maybe you ran into a "order taker" not a saleperson.

ES300's are plentiful, they are already at the auctions --- The MDX's, that may be a little different story, these vehicle's are popular and Acura only makes X amount. But, If you take your time .. and do a little shopping, you will find MDX's that are discounted, depending on your area. ES300's should be able to be bought for around $900/$1,000 over invoice ..just about everywhere.

Terry.

abtseller · October 2001

have any incentives/rebates at all. The production on them is low and the demand is so popular they don't need any. $500 over invoice? I'd probably take that near the end of the month if I had one that was a few weeks old. Can't hurt to try.

Ed

mannymoe · October 2001

Thanks for the comments. 2002 ES's are at auction already? That is great information to know. I have driven and priced out several cars and I think it is my overall favorite. Anything other advice for ES negotiations?

isellhondas · October 2001

Screamer ads are what I mean. ONE AT THIS PRICE!!! etc...

It's PRICE PRICE PRICE!!!!

There are dealerships there that give us the reputation we hate.

I've had several Portland ads shoved in my face...The people go to Portland and often return to me.

I couldn't work in that enviroment.

wheels4me · October 2001

how can 2002 es300s be at auction already? aren't
cars at auction trade ins,returns ect.?

im_brentwood · October 2001

Depends..

Some cars wholesale for in excess of MSRP. I'm running another 02 SC430 this week at the auction.

Bill

hpia4v2 · October 2001

I never been to new car auction. O need more info, so brentwoodvolvo, can you elaborate. Thanks.

jkink88 · October 2001

Ok now.... I need help. I'm real close to ordering a 2002 Jeep Wrangler Sport. The car sites I have researched all come up with the same invoice ($23070) which includes all the options I've added on. Three different dealers are essentially offering me the same price ($23465). This is supposedly $100 over invoice PLUS (2)dealer advertising fees of $135 and $160. Am I wrong in not wanting to pay those ad fees? Is this non-negotiable? Since I am ordering the Jeep they are already getting the full holdback on the vehicle as profit.... I haven't busted their chops about that but shouldn't I be able to avoid paying for the extra advertisement stuff? I'd love some advice here.... Thanks.... JK

im_brentwood · October 2001

Nope. They are closed and for dealers only.

The Majority of cars at auctions are not new, but occasionally there's some MSO/Nearly new cars there.

Bill

im_brentwood · October 2001

Advertising charges, if on the preprinted factory invoice, are a legit cost from the manufracturer to the dealership. They are about as negotiable as, say, the Destination charge. I mean, I suppose you could tell them that you wont pay it, but I doubt they'd then sell you the Jeep if it is a $100 over invoice deal.

But if you region is charged advertising, and if the prices you are getting from 3 dealers are identical, Id say that it is a legit charge.

Bill

rroyce10 · October 2001

..... Just ran one last week at the Columbus auction ...

Terry.

jusdreamin · October 2001

Err...Make that a quick question!

A Ford dealer recently told me that they were not doing dealer swaps because of the 0% financing. Is this true?

raybear · October 2001

That dealer may not be doing them, others seem to be.

nyccarguy · October 2001

You seem like an Ok guy who treats people right from your various posts on this website. I'm 25 and looking for a career change. I currently work in advertising and think I'd be a good fit to work as a car salesman. I have extensive product knowledge (of certain cars) and know how to deal with people (just treat them respectfully). What's the best way to break in to the business?

im_brentwood · October 2001

Thanks!

Just OK tho? haha.

OK, if you're in or near NY City, you're in a good market. I still believe that generally the best place to work and sell is with one of the Luxury Imports. Lexus, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc..

You want to try and get into one of those stores. Just get a resume together ans start calling! That's what I did and it worked for me. Generally, most highline stores want experience, but not all. Some will provide on-the-job training. The trick is, listen to the customers, know your product well, and treat people with respect and you should do fine. Follow-Up is also VERY Crucial.

You can learn a lot of how not to act on these boards too!

Bill

nyccarguy · October 2001

My product knowledge is excellent, I'm an excellent listener, I would treat people how I want to be treated when I'm buying a car, respectfully. Thank-you for your advice. I'll let you know how my search for a new job turns out.

wheels4me · October 2001

just wondered what you would choose - a 3 yr old
certified lexus 300, acura rl or a brand new
honda accord ex-l.

suvshopper4 · October 2001

Don't dealerships generally require long hours, including Saturdays and weeknights?

jusdreamin · October 2001

I wasn't sure. It kinda makes sense though.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles