Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

tblazer503 · October 2003

shouldn't make a difference as long as the cash price is good and you don't sign a loan agreement =o) my humble opinion, of course.

akangl · October 2003

Last car I paid cash for they used that same sort of contract and just put N/A where it was needed. No muss no fuss, I wouldn't worry about it.

rroyce10 · October 2003

.... Basic stuff, Vin#, name, address, DL#, miles, year and model, date of delivery, trade ~ if needed, pay-off ~ if needed .. shows the amount, taxes, tag fee's, it's just all the basic stuff, you gotta have it ... it's probably the same one between Denver and Daytona Beach ..

Terry.

jaserb · October 2003

What kind of policies do your dealerships have as far as selling a car to a family member of an employee? I'm curious, as my sister in law's looking and her dad started selling cars at a GMC/Pontiac/Buick/Nissan store a month or so ago. He's doing pretty well - for those of you that remember, this is the same guy who got fired from a high-pressure Honda dealer after one day. In his first month he's sold 6 cars, including an Envoy XL, Yukon XL, a used Sequoia and a new Quest.

Anyway, what do you guys do, especially on used cars? Cost? Cost + 5%? Squeeze them for every last penny? ;-)

Thanks,
Jason

jmurman42 · October 2003

its -200 under invoice plus finance money +.5%, this is on new. On used it is +500 over what we have in the car.

exb0 · October 2003

I went to a Toyota dealer today to check out Sienas. The salesman told me that they dont have any on the lot, and to give him my name and number so that he could call me when one comes in. If I like it, I could purchase that one or order another one at MSRP. I wrote my name and number and also wrote to call me when he is willing to discount it $2k off the MSRP. Do you think I will ever hear from this guy? Should I wait, or continue to check the market periodically?

BTW. Cliffy, Mack or any other Toyota guy in the Washington DC area, if you like my number, feel free to contact me. Host, I hope it is ok to solicit a purchase.

stickguy · October 2003

Exb: I wouldn't cancel your plans this weekend to sit by the phone waiting fro a call.

You might have a decent shot at $500 off if you make the rounds, but unless the supply is much better in DC than NJ, there is no reason for them to take a cheap deal like that right now.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to ask, so make the rounds of all the local dealers and see what they say.

isellhondas · October 2003

Just a question...

If you were a Toyota dealer with zero Siennas in stock and a lot of eager customers waiting to snap them up at MSRP or higher, would YOU discount them 2000.00?

exb0 · October 2003

I fully understand the laws of supply/demand. The point I made to the salesman that whenever the demand drops to the point were they are selling them for $2K off, call me. Do you think he will ever call me, like five months or a year from now (I can wait until this time next year)? Or do you think it is buy it now or forget you type of situation?

landru2 · October 2003

He knows that by the time they can sell them for $2K off you'll expect an additional $2K off.

bobst · October 2003

I don't think they will ever call you.

If you want a Sienna, then find a dealer that has one, calculate the price you are willing to pay, go to the dealer, and make a firm offer. Who knows, they might accept.

In the meantime, enjoy the beautiful Fall weather we are having in the D.C. area. And don't bet on the Redskins.

rivertown · October 2003

I'm still getting e-mails from my shopping last Dec, after I dropped thank-you-I'm-bought e-mails. So, I'm guessing you may get called at the ends of months but maybe not at your price.

stebu · October 2003

I have to agree with bobst, they probably won't call. At least that's been my experience. Although, once I stopped in a small buy here, pay here lot looking for a used vehicle for my daughter. She wanted a manual and, depending on the vehicle type, those can actually be hard to find at times since many dealers don't like to carry them. Anyways, he didn't have any but promised to call if he gets one. Sure enough, I got the call... about 8 months later... sorry, toooo late.

exb0 · October 2003

Landru2, I hope that salesman doesnt know me as well as you do, because you and me are so close

. But seriously, I gave the guy a firm offer. If he ever calls me, he will get a sale and a solid commission on $2K over invoice. Unlike some of the dealers out there, I am a man of my word, and I wont try to renegotiate when I come back.

Bobst, thanks for your advise, but under current market conditions I would be banning my head against the wall (the experience I dont generally enjoy) if I tried to get this van at a 2K discount now. Besides, I prefer to buy from my local dealer. That means I can choose this dealer or the one in Tysons.

I guess if this guy doesnt call, Ill just watch Carmax prices online. When Carmax price drops 2K Ill give this dealer another chance (but I'll talk to a different salesman). If they match the price, great, if they dont, Ill buy the van from Carmax. I am tired of these games.

audia8q · October 2003

you say... "call me when the van is discounted $2000"

the salesperson hear's "call me when you want to sell the van for a mini-commission"

amazon · October 2003

If I need a late model used full size van to haul my family in, what would you recommend? I place a priority on reliability (currently driving Honda products for that very reason). And bang for the buck. GMC Savanna, Dodge, Ford Econoline, etc?

landru2 · October 2003

I'm assuming that the only reason that you can't buy it now for $2K less is because others are willing to pay $2K more than you are. In other words, you want to pay $2K less than the current market. You want a "deal" better than the current market. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, let's say in 9 months (or whenever) the market has cooled on the car and the current market is now at the $2K off that you originally wanted to pay. Are you really going to be happy paying market value now (with the new model year right around the corner)? Don't you think you'll want some kind of "deal" like you want now?

masspector · October 2003

It appears exbO is doing just what you guys always say. He has determined a value for the vehicle and has made an offer. Until proven otherwise I will take him at his word that in 9 to 12 months he will do the same deal. That is what the car is worth to him.

exb0 · October 2003

Audia8q, "call me when you want to sell the van for a mini-commission"
Mini-commission? The spread between the invoice and MSRP is $4k. By discounting 2K off the MSRP he is still making 2K over invoice. Is it really a mini deal? If that is the case, I really dont understand your commission structure. BTW, is mini-commission on an easy sale with no negotiations worse than no commission at all?

Landru2, interesting point. If he calls me 6 months from now, I will definitely go with the deal. If he calls me just before the new model year, I will probably order the new model year at whatever the market price for that model year will be at that time. Come September next year, my back will be against the wall and I will have to pay whatever market will bear regardless of the discount.

Basically, the consensus is that the guy will never call me. So, the other way for me to determine when the market is soft enough for me to get van at the price I am looking for, is to visit several dealers every other month and to grind with them until they kick me out or agree to my price. Sounds like a major waste of everybodys time. It just doesnt make sence.

landru2 · October 2003

It doesn't sound like there was any grinding at the Toyota store you just went to. Why would there be in the future?

jeffmust2 · October 2003

...when the new Honda van hits the streets to rave reviews and they start showing-up at dealers.

Of course, if the reviews ain't rave (unlikely), the price will remain near or at MSRP on the Toyotas.

masspector · October 2003

In my latest purchase I used carsdirect and local ads to get a feel for the market. It was easy with no face to face confrontations or waste of time for anyone involved. If you have a carmax in your area that sells new toyotas that may be a good pricing indicator too.

timadams · October 2003

exbO, just keep your toe in the market by keeping up with the Sienna boards here on Edmunds and at other web sites. You will see when/if it appears that supply is catching up with demand and the prices start to drop. Given that car sales usually drop in mid-winter, you may want to try again in Jan or Feb. Whether you get a phone call depends on the salesperson. He may have put a note somewhere to contact you again, or he may have thrown your phone number away thinking it was a real longshot to ever sell you a vehicle. I had both happen to me recently when I was looking for a particular car.

And don't mind the ribbing from the car sellers. Car prices do tend to drop on new models as the initial demand is met. Not always, but usually.

audia8q · October 2003

I just looked quickly here on edmunds and the Sienna LE shows $2427 from invoice to MSRP....add that to the dealership lot charge/pack and it looks like a mini to me.....

whenever somebody says "BTW, is mini-commission on an easy sale with no negotiations worse than no commission at all?" This is one of those "red flag" things to a carguy...sorta like the guy walks in the showroom and shouts "who wants to sell a car today?".....salespeople will be running from the building like its on fire...
I know it's never ever that easy....by the time the market dictates the car being discounted by $2000 you won't be happy with that, anyone can get that....you will want $5000 off...LOL

It's not a bad thing you want a better than market value deal, everyone does....but your method of "call me when you can discount to $xxxxxx" isnt the best way to get there.

rroyce10 · October 2003

...... >> "who wants to sell a car today?".. << ..... in 19 years, I have yet to see it .....

Terry.

k_h_b · October 2003

I heard that a few times through the showroom on saturdays. The best part was hearing the story afterwards, about how if we can do only 14 grand on that 97 caravan and get them to 285 on an 03 they got themselves a done deal sir!

Or worse

zueslewis · October 2003

and no, we didn't sell him a car.

$8K buried in a '92 Taurus (this was '94), wanted a brand new '94 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins (we'd only get 6 that year, plus brand new body style) for $1000 UNDER invoice.

I explained that we were taking bids on that particular truck, starting at MSRP, but he could buy a 1500 gas model for MSRP if he wanted.

I explained that I'd gladly write up a deal for him (I was a fleet manager), but that's how things worked at that time.

He didn't leave for over an hour.

qbrozen · October 2003

But is that much worse than the salesperson who says "if I give you a deal that makes you happy, yer driving this car out of here today, right?"

they are both completely absurd questions. Its obvious the answer is yes to both, but yet both questions make you want to run away from the person asking them. I wonder if there is ever a time where that type of shopper and that type of salesperson get together and the car lot implodes.

akangl · October 2003

***who wants to sell a car today?***

I said something like that once.....I was so frustrated trying to get a new car to replace my 94 Blazer that had decided it didn't like me anymore. Had been to several dealerships and at the one before was ready to sign on a used Jeep when the salesman became an [non-permissible content removed] and I ended up leaving, it was a done deal too if he hadn't done what he did.

I walked into the Suburu showroom and basically said *would someone please sell me a car???*

Got a fairly good salesman and left about 2 hours later with a 2000 (this was in Feb of 2000) Subaru Impreza 2.5RS. Didn't get much for my Blazer and was buried in the Impreza, but got out of having to keep fixing my ailing Blazer.

exb0 · October 2003

Auida, 2004 Sienna XLE Limited MSRP 35070, Invoice 31265.

But this is not the point.

You said: ....but your method of "call me when you can discount to $xxxxxx" isnt the best way to get there.

What is the best way to get there, in your professional opinion?

bretfraz · October 2003

Try these concepts:

1. Patience

2. Perseverance

You want the best deal possible on a Sienna? Then it's YOUR responsibility to get it. Laying it off on some salesman with a, "call me when you can do this price" ain't gonna cut it.

While you're out playing golf or you're at church group or you're searching for free porn on the internet, do you expect some salesman to keep badgering his boss to get you the deal you want?

I'm not saying that deal can even be done, but if it can, YOU are going to be the one who is gonna hafta hit the bricks and get it. Might be a waste of time, might be a pot of gold out there waiting for you. But to expect a salesman to do your dirty work is unreasonable.

stickguy · October 2003

Not often you can go from "church group" to "internet porn" in the space of about 3 words. Good job.

mark156 · October 2003

In a couple of weeks, I'm thinking of trading/selling my car for a new large SUV. Is it best to talk price on the new car, then talk about trade price, or vice versa?

Also, if I price my trade around town for the best price, would one dealer buy my used car from me and I can apply the tax savings at the another dealer where I will be getting the new car? For example, if a Mercedes dealer offers me more on my "Mercedes trade" then the Cadillac dealer where I might be buying the new car, would one dealer work with another so I can get the tax advantage when trading?

Thanks, Mark

audia8q · October 2003

worry about one number....the out the door bottom line....it's the only number that matters.

stickguy · October 2003

At least in NJ, you can't apply the tax savings to another purchase. You also can't take a credit if you sell the car yourself, and buy a replacement at the dealer. Not that there is any logic to it, but as I said, this is NJ.

rivertown · October 2003

As Audia says, the only thing that matters is the difference. If the dealer's good, you can negotiate that number directly once you've picked the SUV you want. If he fuzzes it up, you at least know what you're dealing with.

Some dealers can and will do a 'pass through', handle the transfer of your trade-in to the new owner, saving you a chunk of change on the sales tax. I'd just ask, if you have a buyer in hand, and see what kind of $ they want. I doubt there's any sales tax savings if the new owner is a dealer other than where you're buying, however, since that dealer wouldn't be paying tax. A private buyer would be another story.

anewguy · October 2003

Hello, everyone. If this topic has already been addressed, please tell me where/when. As my username states, I'm new to Town Hall and the world of auto sales.

I recently received the following second-hand advice: I can receive a discount as large as 30% if I negotiate directly with a dealership owner. The person who gave me this advice applied it successfully two years ago to a new Mercury station wagon and got this tip at least 20 years ago from someone who used it to buy a new loaded Volvo sedan.

If this is true (and you've recovered and you're willing to respond), here are my questions:

1) This is 30% off of what (invoice, base MSRP)?
2) What is the likelihood that an owner nowadays will be willing and make him/herself available to negotiate directly with a buyer?
3) What types of customer profiles yield these deals?
4) Does this apply to new and/or used vehicles?
5) Does this only apply to vehicles that are currently on the lot?
6) What vehicle makes, models, classes (basic, luxury) qualify for this discount? (I have my eye on a German-made vehicle)
7) What would be my best approach (e-mail, phone call, walk-up) in securing this deal for myself, particularly if I've already requested a few internet and phone quotes from salespeople?

Thank you and TGIF!

volvodan1 · October 2003

I don't think it will matter if you talk to the owner or not. At my dealership,we will sell cars to friends of the owners. On a used car you may get a better deal. But these are friends. If you call and deal with the owner, he will probably introduce you to one of his "top" salespeople who will get you the best possible deal.

On a new car the only way you get 30% off is on a domestic with rebates. I've got a Deville that is 12K off of $47,000. Or think of a cavalier with $3000 off plus maybe another $1000 off. I also sell Volvo's with 6% markup. even w/ dealer cash you are nowhere near 30%

landru2 · October 2003

Come on now. You got this "tip" 20 years ago? You haven't bought a car in 20 years?

Does it make sense that a dealership owner is just going to give away his own money because somebody calls him up? Why do you think he pays people to work for him? If you were to call any dealership owner on Earth and say you want to buy a car, I guarantee he'll transfer you to an employee that he pays to sell people cars.

Forget about this "deal." Forget about your 20 year old source and spend some time at this site. You'll learn everything you need to know.

gsj1 · October 2003

Is there a tactful way for a buyer to change salesmen at the same dealership? I have talked to salesman A a couple of times, and got a short test drive. Ran into salesman B when my guy wasn't available the other night. Salesman B is someone I would be much happier to work with and more likely to buy from. How do I go about this without ending ip on the 'inconsiderate buyers' discussion?

bobst · October 2003

Go to the sales manager and explain how you feel. He will probably prefer that you work with the salesman you like best. At least then your conscience will be clear.

That is what we did last week. I had talked with one salesman on the lot for a few minutes one day, and I had talked to a couple others over the phone. I asked the sales manager which one he would prefer that I work with. He asked if I had a preference, and I said I liked the one from Pakistan I had met on the lot. The manager encouraged me to use that salesman.

landru2 · October 2003

You should call the Sales Manager and explain the situation to him. He will be more concerned that you buy, moreso than who you buy from. Perhaps you can arrange to come in when salesman A is off shift to avoid any awkwardness.

anewguy · October 2003

That's the thing, landru2. I've spent many hours on this and other sites, and that advice didn't jive with my research or my common sense. I was also a kid when my source acquired that advice from someone else and I'm about to purchase my first car. Hence the question. Hey, you can't blame a new guy for wishful thinking, can you? Thanks for your input.

Volvodan1, I appreciated your response as well.

Have a good weekend, everybody!

audia8q · October 2003

hang around here a while and you can be a car buying whiz in no time...there is alot of good info to be found on here to make your purchase simple and easy.

mackabee · October 2003

This happened yesterday at my dealership. We just started receiving the 2004 Prius. The first one was "pre-sold" and arrived Friday. I took the car on a test drive when I found out the "buyer" had decided not to purchase the vehicle. After I got back from the test drive (short 4 mile ride) I went to my office and got into my database to look for Prius customers. The first one I called was gone for the weekend so I informed his wife the car was available and if it didn't sell this weekend I would call to let him know. The second customer I called was very eager to come down to look and test drive the car. "I was there three months ago and talked with a salesperson. Let me see if I have his card. Here it is, his name is John Doe. There won't be any problems if I go in and talk to you will there?" he asks. "I have you down as a buyatoyota.com lead which you submitted a week ago. I follow up on these leads continuosly." I replied. "Yeah, I've been reading your e-mails." He replies. "Has the salesperson called you at all since you visited our dealership?" I ask, while looking at our Autobase customer tracking software and see John Doe did not bother to input the customers information at all. "Not once." the customer replies. "Well, in that case I'll pair you up with someone else that's been trained on the new Prius. There is only a select few that have attended the training." I respond. "Ok, we'll be there between 5:30 and 6:00" So the moral of this story is log your customers and follow-up with them, that way when they come in and buy from someone else there will be no misunderstanding on how to split or not split the commission.
: )
Mackabee

isellhondas · October 2003

We've used Autobase since 1997. I don't know how I could function without it.

jmurman42 · October 2003

Autobase...although it is impossible to log all Internet inquiries into the system.

mackabee · October 2003

We started using it back in March. I don't log the internet leads on there as I have a separate lead tracker for the web from AVV webcontrol until I actually get the customers in the showroom. Webcontrol helps me sort out leads from different providers allows me to send broadcast e-mails to unsold customers, and other neat things. There's a store up in Northern Va that uses Webcontrol for everything and it works very well for them. I was hesitant about Autobase at first but now it helps me keep track of which salespeople are actually working the system and which are not. In my above example the salesperson that originally talked to this customer never put him in the system and also never followed up with updates as per the customer. The thing I don't like about Autobase is that it can be manipulated by a dishonest salesperson. For example: one salesperson inputs a working customer and only has the customers home phone, another salesperson can put the same customer in using a work number or cell phone number and the system will put it in as a new customer and a skate occurs. I've seen it done a few times since we've had the system.\
                  : )
                  Mackabee

                  : )
                   Mackabee

spektre · October 2003

I'm talking about providing your own private buyer for your trade-in in order to realize the tax savings - What's the best way to ask for this?

What do you call it at your dealership, if you do it at all, and what's your typical 'handling' fee?

isellhondas · October 2003

It's really skirting the law to the point most dealers won't do them.

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