Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

mlayton694 · October 2001

What kind of money does an average car salesmen pull in one year in salary and commissions ?? I assume the high end mercedes and Bimmer dealer do better, but what would an average be,

Very curious
Thanks in advance !
M

bobst · October 2001

They are all good choices. I would buy the car that I most enjoyed driving. It is that simple.

If you by a car that you like, you will be more inclined to pay for repairs, and it will be cheaper in the long run. If you buy a car that you don't really like, you will get rid of it when the first problem develops.

jusdreamin · October 2001

How accurate is TMV in light of 0% financing from Ford? Mustangs to be specific.

Just wondering.

raybear · October 2001

Most dealers are quite reasonable.

jusdreamin · October 2001

Just curious.

odd1 · October 2001

Wife's car got wacked(they were insured; everyone okay) now she wants the Caddy(Deville) that the rental company gave us. Is it true that a two year old Caddy will have depreciated 50%? Is a two year old Deville a decent car? Any better full sized options? She's a bit concerned about smaller cars after the wreck. Thanks.

ghulet · October 2001

I think is an excellent age to buy a Caddy. New they're really expensive and do depreciate a lot.
In today's Chicago Tribune, there are two 99 SDVs, both around $24k, so it appears they do depreciate about 50% in that two years. At $20-24k you're getting a really nice car at an 'average' car price.

im_brentwood · October 2001

Buying a new Caddy is foolish unless you lease it.

Put it this way. I'm buying used 01s for like $25-26K or so for 15K mile cars and 00s with like 20K on them for like $22-23K.

That's wholesale, but it still gives you a great idea.

Lets' see.. new MSRP on an 02 is like 46K.. And TMV is prolly like $42-43K or so...

Bill

jf_spade · October 2001

I've decided on a car ('02 Altima) and the options and the colors that I would like on it. The salesman tells me that in order for him to get the car that I want he has to do a dealer trade.

1. How does this process work?

2. Do I negotiate the price and then wait for delivery or should I do it the other way around? Also, I'm assuming that I shouldn't sign anything until it is delivered.

3. I prefer to put the miles in the car myself. Do you think that it is a good idea for me to go and pick-up the car at the other dealer? Also, how many miles is too much to have on a new car? The car that I test drove had 265 miles on it. I think that's too much to have on a car. Am I right or am I just being paranoid about this car being the demo car?

rroyce10 · October 2001

..... The deal will be done (or should) as if the vehicle was there. I kinda doubt that they will let you do the trade yourself because of insurance and liability reasons.

The vast majority of the trades are done by experienced drivers that are usually retired .. or by trusted employees that don't smoke and are super carefull ....

Not a biggie here, it's done by the hundreds everyday.

Terry.

mikeburk · October 2001

A good friend of mine wants to buy a new '01 or '02 Accord EX 4 cyl. sedan in the San Francisco Bay area. Does anybody have any idea how close to invoice she should have to pay? I'm not sure how hungry Honda dealers are these days...

bobst · October 2001

I bought two Hondas in 1995, one in 1997, and one in 1998. All were 4-cyl. We paid about $150 over invoice for the LX models, and about $250 for the EX. My daughter and her husband also got one in January of this year, and I think they got an even better deal.

Our final out-the-door price was invoice + transportation + $150 + sales tax + $50 for tag/title. No silly 'dealer processing fee'.

We live in Virginia. Those Bay Area hippies might do things a little differently.

raybear · October 2001

No silly processing fee? What was the $150?

bobst · October 2001

The $150 was money we had to give to the dealer so he would give us the car. We offered less at a couple other places, and they told us to take a hike.

raybear · October 2001

So that was the processing, doc, or admin fee. Actually on the low side for Virginia.

andre1969 · October 2001

...was how much over invoice he paid. It's just that when he broke it down for out-the-door, he typed it as invoice + $150 + tax + etc.

raybear · October 2001

I think you may be correct!

hiwaysanity · October 2001

If Doc Fee isn't broken out in the price, then whatever doc costs the dealer incurs comes out of their profit. So the $150 (plus holdback and any mfr>dlr incentives) includes doc costs.

bobst · October 2001

The main point I was trying to make is that I think it is easier if you make an 'out-the-door' offer that includes sales tax, tag, title, and everything else. Then they can't pull any surprises on you.

For example, when we got our 1998 EX Accord, we offered $20300 and they accepted. We gave them a check for that amount plus $20 because we wanted a license plate with a picture on it.

Actually, my wife gave them the check, because $20320 makes me too nervous to write legibly.

Bob

mikeburk · October 2001

Thanks, Bob. What was the even better deal your daughter got in January? And does anybody in Calif have any recent experiences in buying Accord sedans, 4 cyl. EX? (Too bad CarOrder.com bit the dust...I got a great deal on an Audi A4 from them in '99)

raybear · October 2001

I had a customer today working through our internet service. She had a dealer make an offer to her and the doc fee was waived.

She asked me to try and get him down $200 on price, but I'm not allowed to negotiate, told her she'd have to submit a new bid.

I convinced her not to submit a new bid because of the doc fees in her region commonly run to $300. Had she tried a new offer someone could have taken it, charged the $300 on top of that and gotten away with it.

The car was a loaded Sienna LE with the new video system, and the dealer was only $500 over his invoice, reasonable in my opinion.

I have a problem with these extra fees. When I sold cars we charged $65, our local competition charged $249. A shopper gets quoted a price without the fee included, and my offer was usually about $100 more than the other dealer, still a savings when the fees are considered.

Today I see doc fees ranging from $0 (Washington) to $600 (Nevada). I think there ought to be a cap on these to level the playing field and to protect the consumer, or they should be eliminated altogether.

raybear · October 2001

I had a friend stay in NYC for $50. I don't know if Paris is that cheap.

bobst · October 2001

I think my daughter and her husband got a 2001 4-cyl 5-sp Accord LX for about $50 or $100 over invoice. That was in January. They also got a couple options like floor mats and mud flaps. They estimated the invoice price for these options. They just went in and made an out-the-door offer, and it was accepted.

We have bought Hondas at three different dealers in Northern Virginia, and they all charge about the same price.

If you are serious, then compute an out-the-door price and make an offer. All they can do is boot you out the door. Believe me, it doesn't hurt at all.

Bob

tiredofmanual · October 2001

On vehicles bought through Ford's X-Plan? I was just curious to know since I see that more and more people are finding out how to get it. I assume the Ford reimburses the dealer for this, but at what amount?

audia8q · October 2001

Ford pays us a commission.

Rich

afty · October 2001

I have a question for a car dealer...

About two weeks ago, I was emailing various local Nissan dealers about purchasing a new Altima, trying to see what they had in stock. One dealer replied saying that he was expecting one equipped pretty much the way I wanted and gave me a very good price. I called him, got a out-the-door quote, and was told the car was scheduled in for Friday, Oct. 12 (that day), but would probably arrive on Monday or Tuesday. So I went in on Saturday to talk about it. He told me then that the car's delivery date had been delayed a week to Oct. 19 because of shipment delays related to the Sept. 11 bombing. Since I needed to secure financing and insurance, this was fine with me and I signed a purchase agreement and put down a deposit. He gave me the car's VIN number from his printouts as well.

So I wait a week, Oct. 19 comes and goes, still no car. This past Tuesday, Oct. 23, I get a message from my salesman saying that they're not sure where the car is and that their printout still shows it as due on the 19th. He tells me that the car is in the shipping company's possession now and they are unable to track it. He also tells me to sit tight and that the car should be in at any time.

Well, the car is now a week late and I don't know what the deal is. What's going on here? Is it normal for a car to be delivered more than a week after its scheduled delivery date? Is it true that they can't track it? Keep in mind that this is not a special order car, it's one the dealer was scheduled to receive before I put down my deposit.

Thanks in advance for your help.

mney6 · October 2001

They can track the vehicle.All they have to do is call the transport company.
I have seen shipping delays,so I would give it a few more days.

abtseller · October 2001

a week's delay on our shipped units also. Its hard, but just be calm, it will show up.

Ed

audia8q · October 2001

We have some vehicles that have been in "transit hell" for weeks.

Rich

tiredofmanual · October 2001

Thanks. Is this commission in line with what the dealer would expect from an average sale?

I ask because I came up with a scenario that goes a little like this:
A new salesman (or one that gets stuck with the young/poor customers) goes out to greet all the people looking at the Focus (you know, the cheap car on the lot). The dealer probably doesn't make much money off of this car anyway so the salesman tells the customer "blah blah blah, if you would like the best deal possible on this car, leave right now and go to X web site, sign up for a membership for $40, and get an x-plan pin number. Bring that back to me and you will get this car for a couple hundred $$$ under invoice. That is the absolute best price you will get this car for." The salesman would do this before bringing the customer in for negotiations but after a test drive. I would think that the salesman would sell a lot of Foci this way, and gain a reputation as a trustworthy salesman who would possibly get referrals on both Focus sales and higher-end sales. Since the salesman would not be wasting any time on the Focus sales, he would not mind selling them to people.

I can only think of two problems with this scenario:
1. The sales manager finds out and gets mad. However, if the commission paid to the dealer is in line with the expected profit on the car, the sales manager shouldn't care.
2. The referrals that the salesman gets are also going to be buying on the x-plan, so it may ruin profits on the higher-end vehicles.

Any comments?

afty · October 2001

Thanks, that's really reassuring. ;-)

heather20fan · October 2001

Now I remember why I hate buying a new car. I've tried to read all the posts to get an idea when going to the dealership. My eyes started to cross about an hour ago. I want to buy a 2002 chrysler sebring limited convertible with the 4disc cd changer. I have a 92 lebaron 4dr sedan to trade in. I got an internet price of $27,649.
Trade in quote is for $ 500.00. They said they were warehousing the trade in (what ever that means). My trade in has 92,000 and is in decent shape. Some surface rust, but nothing too bad.
Is this a good deal. I'm a woman buyer and not sure if I'm getting the best deal. Can the internet price be negotiated? Any input would be helpful. Thanks!!!

landru2 · October 2001

Well, you are guaranteed to drive yourself nuts if you won't be satisfied with anything but the "best" deal.

I think the term they used about your trade is "wholesaling." This means that because of its age or mileage it is unsuitable for them to sell it to a consumer. So, they will wholesale it to another re-seller, usually those corner used car lots you see around. They don't have the same concerns about reputation or customer satisfaction that a franchised dealer would have.

Someone else here will be more qualified to determine whether the price you got was good or not. Good Luck.

heather20fan · October 2001

Let me re-state that. I not as concerned about getting the best deal as long as I am getting a fair deal...I don't mind paying a fair price, but I don't want to get raped in the process.

rroyce10 · October 2001

........ $500 for your trade is very fair, just make sure you are taking advantage of the rebates and /or the special interest rates ...

At this time of the year you should be able to buy that vehicle, for just a couple of bucks over FAC ...

Terry.

audia8q · October 2001

if worked properly is fine but the commission is less than a average retail sale gross profit..quite a bit less. most X-plan deals are ones that i would have had anyway, so it dosnt thrill me or most dealers....often customers come in, run the salesperson all over the lot, doing all kinds of pricing, haggling ...only to announce when all is said and done...oh, BTW i'm an X-plan, what is that price...

Also the dealer is not required to offer the x-plan prices. if a vehicle is hot, there is no incentive to offer the vehicle at well below market pricing.

artwis · October 2001

Exactly what is this Ford x-plan and who qualifies?
Art

tiredofmanual · October 2001

yeah, but I was thinking that you would do this only on the cheap car (aka Focus) and cut buyers off at the pass before they had a chance to waste your time. You can do it all hush-hush, looking around to make sure nobody else hears, and then maybe the buyer thinks you are some savior of sorts, out to fix the wrongs of the car sales industry.

artwis, there is plenty about the x-plan already here. Basically it is a discount given by Ford to various groups. It is optional for a dealer to honor it but if the do it gives you a no-haggle price below invoice. Do some searching if you need more info than that.

artwis · October 2001

Have already done some searching. Don't know if I have the right connections to qualify but it did say all models except heavy duty (750+) trucks are on it. It would take more than a couple of hundred bucks under inv. to make me consider any ford.
Art

tiredofmanual · October 2001

All you need to qualify is to go to www.eaa.org and get a membership. I believe that the cost is $40. In addition to the discount on the Ford, you get a newsletter and a warm fuzzy feeling because you're helping put on the best airshow in the World.

But if you really hate Fords that much, there's always Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, or Volvo. X-plan works for them too but the discount isn't as big (I think it is still an excellent deal though).

afk_x · October 2001

As crazy as this might sound - in my neck of the woods there is a pretty serious shortage of Focus vehicles

We are not going to do an X plan on the Focus at this point -

curious_gorge · October 2001

I'm looking at buying a Dodge Dakota Quad Cab. I would like a V8 with manual trans. One dealer says that there is currently a restriction on this, so a special order could take "months". Another dealer priced up a special order for me as said that they had just sent in a a order for a Club Cab with manual trans. and that it would be 6-8 weeks for mine, even though he's never seen it go as long as 8 weeks.(There is not manual in their search area or district, and these trucks are extremely popular)

I want to buy, but I don't want to be strung along either after I've ordered. Is there a restriction or not? Thank you very much for your help.

sonjaab · October 2001

Check out www.wheels.com
Go to the assembly lines thread. If there
is a production hold on stick trans. It
will show right there . If not dealer is
stroking you...............Geo

heather20fan · October 2001

Not to sound stupid...fac??? Is this invoice price or something else?

seamusthedog · October 2001

Does anyone know where I can get monthly sales figures for specific models. I'm looking to buy a new avalanche and was wondering how it was selling to determine how much a dealer might be willing to deal on one.

curious_gorge · October 2001

Thank you for the wheels.com site. That showed no restrictions in effect! I have the dealerships pricing sheet listing both MSRP and FWP which they said was their actual cost. I know who to trust now. IvoiceDealers.com matched that price very closely for the same options.

Now, being a special order truck, can I negotiate to below the FWP price or is that their base price? I have no problem with the dealer makeing $5-700 off of me, but I don't want to get gouged as I am planning on some expensive modifications afterwards. Thank you for all the great advice I've found on this site and in the messages.

suvshopper4 · October 2001

I get (free) monthly and year-to-date sales figures at autosite.com

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Seamusthedog, I have access to the information that you are looking for. In September of this year, General Motors sold 7,639 Chevrolet Avalanches. Year-to-date, GM has sold 23,073 units of this truck. The normal way of telling how well a particular model is selling is to compare its current sales numbers to those that it posted a year ago. However, that method will not work with the Avalanche because it has not been on sale for a full year yet. Also, I will not have the October sales numbers for this truck until General Motors officially releases them tomorrow. Please feel free to check back with me then if you would like to see this month's numbers. As far as what sort of price you should be able to negotiate on this truck, I don't know for certain because I have not heard much about it. From what I do hear, it seems to me as though a discount of $2,000 to $2,500 off of MSRP is around the going rate. You may want to look up the Avalanche in the new vehicle pricing section of this site to see what its True Market Value is like at this time.

Car_Man
Host
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audia8q · October 2001

It's a very regional vehicle...Here on Connecticut the Avalanche isnt exactly flying off the shelves, great deals can be had....but in other regions its selling at or near MSRP...

Rich

sonjaab · October 2001

Syracuse NY area...Most dealers 4000 off
msrp in their screamer ads lately

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