Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

isellhondas · November 2003

"Under investigation" does not assume wrongdoing.

Still, I would avoid those funds. I mean, why use them with the hundreds of other choices?

spektre · November 2003

Town Hall: Smart Shopper: Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

So Car Dealers, what's your markup on an extended warranty, how much profit does it put in your pocket as a salesman, and what happens when the consumer cancels it within the full refund period after sale is completed?

driftracer · November 2003

except some stores have set prices, some stores let the F&I person mark them up.

F&I folks usually draw a commission based on total sales in their department - every item adds to the total number.

If you cancel the warranty within 90 days, they get a chargeback and have money taken out of their pay - this does not please them.

I've seen $800-900 chargebacks - really hurts when you've already had a slow month.

jlawrence01 · November 2003

Under investigation does not mean guilty.

But letters from that mutual saying that there were irregularities and that the principals have been canned is good enough evidence for me.

jratcliffe · November 2003

And when the CEO resigns in disgrace, that's a pretty good signal...

isellhondas · November 2003

Especially now that I've read up on this since my last post.

anewguy · November 2003

Hello, everyone. I'm sorry to butt in again, but I got screwed on my recent purchase and I need some insight.

I got a used 2002 VW Golf with a 2003 in-service date from a dealership that's 90 miles away. It was not certified so the purchase agreement (signed last week) included the price of the certification warranty and stipulated that the car would be certified and a minor repair would be fixed by pick-up (yesterday). The minor repair was not done, but I agreed to pay and take possession, and bring the car back for it.

I arrived home with my vehicle to find a message from my salesperson. Due to a policy change, VW will not honor the certification warranty because the car is too new. I've been given two options: refunding the warranty cost or getting a CNA National warranty at no cost. I checked all the papers they gave me and I have no written confirmation that the inspection was completed.
Per my request for an explanation, the sales manager followed up today, but I have yet to return his call. The VW Customer Care line also offered to investigate.

I love my car, but the dealer clearly took advantage of my ignorance, I'm pissed that I can't recoup the certification status, and I want the warranty amount plus the sales tax I paid on it (in a separate check). What do you think I should do?

driftracer · November 2003

landru2 · November 2003

"I've been given two options: refunding the warranty cost..."

Isn't that what you want?

grandtotal · November 2003

Don't take either option, unwind the deal. I don't think they necessarily lied to you but they have not supplied what you wanted which was a car with a VW certified warranty. Alternatively could they VW certify it for you when it is a little older?

blh7068 · November 2003

You said its "too new" to be certified, so...

Is the car out of factory warranty? If not, the repair is not covered?

It sounds like the dealer is working with you, and by what you said they are offering what you want in the form of a refund. If you like the car, then keep it

anewguy · November 2003

I talked to the sales manager. He fell on his own sword ("We screwed up.") and agreed to a refund with tax.

I didn't unwind the deal, driftracer and grandtotal, b/c no other VW dealership in my state had used late-models, my car's condition made it the pick of a small litter, and a car donation program picked up my old car before I got the message (I transferred my plate so I didn't want it to sit too long w/o one).

landru2, this is what I want now, but certification was the first thing I asked for more than 2 weeks ago and nobody even bothered to review VW's policies prior to pick-up! I guess that's a disadvantage with buying a used car from a new car dealership.

blh7068, the car is under most of the factory warranty, but they agreed last week not to charge me for this uncovered repair and I reminded the manager of it today.

grandtotal, I asked VW Customer Care the same question - they said it should have been certified prior to being put on the lot and cannot be done after purchase.

Thanks for your input.

enron3000 · November 2003

I just moved to Hawaii and have been car shopping for the past week or so. With the exception of toyota dealers, all the dealers in hawaii are adding this "local market adjustment fee" of anywhere from $2k to $5k on every make/model except toyota.

I have seen this type of additional dealer mark up when I lived in arizona but that was only limited to extremely high demand vehicles such as honda odyssey but not for every single make and model.

Is this type of practice normal for dealers in hawaii?

Another thing I notice is all the toyota dealers in hawaii are somehow associated with the company called servco. If all the toyota dealers in hawaii are owned or partially owned by servco, than does this mean I have to pay one set fixed price regardless of which dealer I go to?

tblazer503 · November 2003

lived in Hawaii until I was 20.. hard to buy cars coming from the mainland... =oP If ya don't like the two or three dealers on the island, your options become very limited...

I don't know about the servco, but I can tell ya that you can probably get different prices from both... depending on all the variables...

Hmm... never really noticed that they were all owned by servco.. I guess I wouldn't expect a huge difference between them... but honda has the pfluger, tony...

Sorry bud, know how ya feel...

isellhondas · November 2003

My friend, Prophet should be checking in. He lives on Oahu and has quite a network with the local dealers. He can answer your questions.

akangl · November 2003

A lot like Alaska when it comes to buying cars. Almost every dealer has a *market adjustment* on the cars,usually $2k to $3k. I just ignore it and start at MSRP.

Can't remember the last time I paid *asking* price for a vehicle, new or used. My Explorer they were *asking* $15,995, NADA retail was $12,300, I paid $11,551 OTD.

Well, I better git, speaking of that Explorer, its headed off to get a new EGR tube, heard about all of that exhaust leak I can handle for one lifetime.

rivertown · November 2003

The Hawaiian market doesn't come up much, but the last time it did the poster was talking about the same sort of stuff you've found.

Alternatives? Last time it came up, I did a web search and found a couple of companies that will ship a car from the mainland. 'Twasn't cheap, especially the insurance; but if the ADM's are as steep as they sound, it could be a better way to go.
Alternatives is goooood!

tblazer503 · November 2003

although it is true that you can ship a car from the mainland, you would be driving a car without testdriving it, then it would have a 6-8 week trip across the pacific ocean, where you would be making payments.

Personally, if you want to do it right, take a trip to Cali(5-800 roundtrip), then get a room, rental, etc... then pay 800 to ship the car. And you still 'may' have to pay taxes(probably not, but maybe)... Then your 2000 ADM is useless.

I looked at doing it for my dad, but it could have come out pretty comprable to what he would have paid there. The destination fees to Hawaii are generally about $150-200 more than the continental US, and the prices are generally 500 more or so. Taxes are moot, because you would probably have to pay them when you first register the car(4.1667) but then you won't be able to finance that, then you have some banks(most) who won't finance a car out of state(where you will be buying it)... big huge pain.

driftracer · November 2003

buying a car (in CA, or OR), then selling the car to their relative in Hawaii - would that make things any easier?

tblazer503 · November 2003

if you paid cash. If not, there is a papertrail of financing documents, and assuming that you sell on your own(dealers generally won't give you as much on a trade (in my experience) if you aren't buying a car)

The papertrail would insure that you are paying the taxes(checked it out). Then the registration, shipping costs(something almost always gets damaged), ... it just wasn't worth it to us. the couple hundred extra dollars you pay to buy in Hawaii is generally offset witht he service, etc.

mirth · November 2003

...shipped her car to Hawaii and it cost about $800 and took about a month.

ramped1 · November 2003

and thought it was interesting. The discussion concerned whether the dealers discounted heavily around the holidays. Are the deals as good in December and around New Years as they are at the end of the model year in August-September-October?

prodigalsun · November 2003

Word is from the pros on these boards that the week between Christmas and New Years can be the best time, as that is considered tumbleweed time, and it's also year end.

rroyce10 · November 2003

........ Runs somewhere between Dec 5 and Dec 31st .. and thats based on geographic area's, barometric pressure, the alignment of Pluto and Mars and of course what type of product, and yes, that's a good time for the car buyers ....

Terry ;-)

ramped1 · November 2003

Party after Monday night football?

rroyce10 · November 2003

...... Yep, everything was going great until the Sheriffs dept showed up ..l.o.l...

Actually, I fell asleep right after the 1st quarter ....... but don't tell anybody, it's just "our" little secret .......

)

Terry.

suvshopper4 · November 2003

Terry, you missed a great finish (for an Iggles fan, anyway).

Regards,
ss4

thel · November 2003

so I was just laughing the whole time at the end of that game watching those teams struggling to score. Tee hee. Now I've done it, I'll make loud-mouth Chad Johnson look like a genius by jinxing the Chiefs...LOL

Back on topic, Does anyone know of any goodies available for 03 SVT Foci or 03 Protege 5's? I'm thinking of getting one or the other. I know they both have a $2500 rebate (the Focus also has a $1000 / 1.9% financing deal which looks good to), but I am just wondering how much north of invoice I'd have to go on one.

Edmunds has the P5's TMV being under invoice by a bit so I wonder if there is some factory-dealer cash out there. Audia8q, you out there??

Go Chiefs!!!!

kyfdx · November 2003

In Cincinnati at Jeff Wyler Mazda, they are advertising $5400 off MSRP on every P5. I drove one Saturday there, but didn't talk price. I figure that puts them at $1400 under invoice considering the $2500 rebate. They had at least 30 of them. You never know if its legit, till you get in the office to sign the papers, but if so... that is cheap.

regards,
kyfdx

edit: And I'll be at the Chiefs/Bengals game this Sunday. I hope Chad is right.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi thel. Your hunch is right. Mazda is indeed providing dealer cash on the 2003 Protege 5. The exact amount of the dealer cash varies by region. From the looks of your post, I am guessing that you live in the Midwest. Mazda is providing $1,000 dealer cash on this car in that area. This will definitely give you more room to negotiate.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards

robr2 · November 2003

And don't forget the new MZ3 wagon will be out in a couple of months, so their trying to clear out the current one.

thel · November 2003

The one I'm looking at has an MSRP of $19105 so should $14,700 be a fair offer?

thel · November 2003

My Miata has a cracked windshield that needs to be replaced. A new windshield will set me back $200. Would it be better to replace it before I trade it in to make it "show" better, or does it make any difference at all?

bodble2 · November 2003

Would a consumer get a more favourable trade-in value if it was done with the original selling dealer? I don't know if this matters but the car is an Acura (late-model, one-owner), and there are only a few Acura dealers in town.

stickguy · November 2003

fix the windshield. At best, you will be docked the cost of it by the dealer, and probably more than you will pay. Plus, it gives the impression of a ratty car (even if otherwise pristine). Remember, if perception isn't everything, it's still a lot.

besides, $200 sounds cheap for a windshield, unless insurance is paying part of it.

kyfdx · November 2003

The one I was looking at was almost exactly the same price. As I posted before, they were advertising $5400 off MSRP. Today, another dealer in town is advertising "up to" $5000 off MSRP. I think I'd start my offers at $13,800 or $13,900... You can always come up. And I agree.. for $200, fix the windshield.

regards,
kyfdx

graphicguy · November 2003

Let me know if Wyler deal is legit. I've seen their ads in the local paper. I tried to make a couple of deals with their dealerships at differing times based on their ads, but always found some sort of "gotcha" once I got to the negotiation table. If legitimate, it's a great deal.

Regarding cheifs/bengals....I figure it to be a blowout....one way or the other (hopefully, Chad is proven correct). Gave my season tickets up a couple of years ago.

thel · November 2003

Called the glass shop, they should get back to me soon.

Chiefs will lose the first game the go into being overconfident. That hasn't happened yet b/c they haven't played great football until the last 2 games. Sooner or later though, the Chief's number will come up...but not Sunday!

jlawrence01 · November 2003

Re:Wyler

I thought that they were one of the worst grinder dealers in the Cinti area?

I have never dealt with them but I have been warned that you never get the deal taht you think they will.

kyfdx · November 2003

Yeah.. I've only dealt with their Honda dealerships.. Actually, not dealt, I've never managed to strike a deal with them... I'm probably not going to find out about the P5, as I doubt that is what I'm going to buy. The other dealership (Kings Mazda) is now advertising $5K off, which would be around invoice with $1000 dealer cash and $2500 rebate figured in. So, it seems like something in that $5000 off sticker range can be achieved.
I've hung onto my season ticket.. Its easier because I just have one ticket.. I sit with five of my buddies. Ten days per year away from the better half, keeps both of us happy... Thats cheap for $46.50 per game.LOL

I gotta go with Chad this week... I think the Chiefs are going down.

regards,
kyfdx

KCRam · November 2003

Since I happen to be a ticked-off Giants fan, and Car Man is a ticked-off Jets fan, the football chat better end LOL

kcram
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Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards

suvshopper4 · November 2003

Eagles are looking to complete an NFL / NY sweep this Sunday. And that includes the Bills, too!

driftracer · November 2003

place behind the Cowboys. Let's compare Superbowl rings, shall we?

suvshopper4 · November 2003

Rings? Ancient history. Only the owner remains the same.

Looking forward to your 'Boys visit to Philly Sunday Dec 7.

driftracer · November 2003

corpus · November 2003

I looked through some old posts, and it sounds like there are some regulars with strong opinions on the ethics of car selling.

Let me float this balloon: I had been checking with a local dealer on a 2004 Sienna. He said he would give me $750 over invoice, which I was initially happy with. When I looked at his invoice, it had 2 things (TDA and MAF) that the Edmunds/KBB/CR invoices do not show, totalling over $600.

I shopped the deal, without saying that I had an offer already, and found a deal (initial internet offer) 2 hours away for $200 less. Dealer A then dropped his price $150, followed by Dealer B dropping another $200. I'm now at $400 over "dealer cost," but even though I didn't intend to, I've started a bidding war. To compound the problem, the sales mgr. that gave me the original deal is a friend of friends.

So, help me with the ethics here. Should I buy out of town and save $250? Should I pay $250 just to be a good guy? Why would I pay $250 extra for a car, if I wouldn't pay $250 extra for a piece of bubble gum? The dealer two hours away must still be making good money. Doesn't it mean the local dealer could make me a better deal?

lmp180psu · November 2003

salespeople would ask you if saving $250 over the life of a 48-60 month loan is worth the 200 mile trip(400 mile roundtrip to this other dealer)? I probably would take the closer deal because the savings is not big enough to justify the trip. Now if it was $2500 instead of $250, I would take the 200 mile trip.

Also, $400 over "invoice/dealer cost" on a 2004 Sienna is an excellent deal, from what many have been saying. Maybe Mackabee can comment on this deal

Take the closer deal, especially since it is a friend of a friend, and the $$ savings is certainly not that significant IMO.

corpus · November 2003

Yes, I'm surprised by the deal I'm getting. I think the gas tank recall artificially drove up demand, and Toyota is catching up.

As for "the life of a loan," I've sold the wife's car already, and I'm paying cash. So the extra $250 comes right out of my pocket, just like if I paid $250 more for a piece of bubble gum.

The local deal is $600 over. The out-of-town is $250 less, or $350 over. (I erred above.)

The drive is 140 miles--2 hours each way--and my father-in-law makes it all the time, so he could drop me there.

landru2 · November 2003

Frankly, it sounds like you've already made up your mind. I must say I find it a little odd when someone comes on an anonymous chatboard looking for validation of their ethics. Surely there are people you actually know and respect that you could ask? Or are you afraid they might not give you the answer you want to hear?

Why haven't you just asked your friend to match whatever price you can get out of the out of town dealer? The answer should go a long way toward focusing your personal ethics in the matter.

You are going to find some people that say "anything you save is worth any inconvenience" and some will say, "buying local from your friend is worth more than $250."

There's no right answer to your question. The only one that has to live with the decision is you.

rodc1 · November 2003

You have a very good deal on the table-no an excellent deal. Your friend of a friend-the salesman, and you friend will both think you screwed him out of his rightfully earned money by shopping his deal. Now I'm all for getting the best deal and I admittedly owe no allegiance to any salesperson(not just carsalesmen). But for a very high demand vehicle (still can't get used to a minivan as a "hot vehicle") you know that you must have gotten special pricing consideration. The ramifications from doing that out of town deal don't seem worth it to me, is it to you? PS- friends don't screw over friends for money( well at least not for $250.00). My humble opinion. Rod

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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