Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

stever · December 2003

You and me both know it's only the guys who just get to Anchorage that turn tail and run. If he's already lasted a winter in your neck of the woods, he's golden :-)

Maybe a side of moose, a few caribou steaks and some silvers/halibut would help ice the down payment?

And send me some snow; durn ski hill here still hasn't opened.

Steve, Host

akangl · December 2003

Very true, he's in Healy and its been brutally cold there. He loves this area, his wife and son are a little shell shocked, its thier first winter. I guess he spent last winter up here too.

I'll just get him for a tune up on the Explorer or something for a little *extra* on the down, he seems like an honest hard working guy.....typical alaskan. Guess we live by different rules up here.

mark156 · December 2003

I was just kidding with Jolie.... if it gets too difficiult for him to pay her for the Chevy truck, maybe his mechanic abilities can be bartered for Explorer/Truck repair. One way or the other, I'm sure Jolie will make him pay.

Mark

akangl · December 2003

How do you know me so well?? I'm a kind person, but stab me in the back and I turn into a tasmanian devil. It'll all work out in the end I'm sure and the truck will find a new home.

hingram · December 2003

I am looking at a new 2003 Tracker (4cyl, 5sp). It is a low-demand unit with a $4500 rebate according to the dealership. They say the invoice is $18500 which is what they are asking for it. How much play do they have on price?

butchbr73 · December 2003

check carsdirect.com, edmunds.com TMV.. they'll give you an idea of the general market price... if its true about the $4500 rebate, they've probably got another $3/4k play back of invoice.

driftracer · December 2003

where'd you pull that number from?

That's why so many car deals turn ugly - people are still under the belief that you can get a car for so far under invoice. There's holdback, sure, if the dealer wants to give it up, but that's only about $600.

In theory, you're saying that on a vehicle with an MSRP of $20K, the guy should be able to buy it for $11,500/12,000?

That's a really mean lowball to put a nice guy out running on!

akangl · December 2003

After a week of advertising and no bites at all, we went ahead with the Chevy deal. He signed the contract yesterday and took the truck. Its gonna be interesting me thinks, but I think it will all work out in the end. He seemed happy to get the truck and we had the contract all notorized and legal to cover our rears.

isellhondas · December 2003

You should be O.K. sometimes you just have to trust your instincts. It's also nice to know you gave someone down on his luck a helping hand.

hingram · December 2003

I didn't think they had that much spare room. But they are getting ready to undergo inventory tax. They move the entire stock on New years Eve to avoid the tax. Hopefully, they'll have a little bit of play.

The salesman wrote me that it was a $3500 rebate even though the webpage said $4500. Do they have some play on the rebate?

driftracer · December 2003

that's it. That whole inventory tax thing sounds like a line of bull - keep your guard up. It may be accurate, but when the salesman has to resort to making excuses instead of just selling the product, I worry about them.

I train salespeople and one of the first things I tell them is that I don't want any stories thrown around - if you're that weak, either get some more training or find another line of work.

dbgindy · December 2003

Good Luck Jolie! You deserve some!

Duncan

hingram · December 2003

That do actually move the inventory out of the county. It's in the paper every year.

akangl · December 2003

Um, yeah and it doesn't seem to be coming my way as far as anything else goes.

Our 99 Ram's steering gear box is leaking like crazy.....leaving puddles. Then the snowmobile we have up for sale refuses to start, so its at the dealer.....probably going to cost a bit to get it fixed. To top all that off my hubby called me a bit ago to say we wouldn't be getting a paycheck from his logging job this week cause the guy's semi broke down and he can't haul any loads (hubby gets paid when the guy hauls the trees he's cut to the mill). I'm afraid to ask what's next.

wantapassatnow · December 2003

Today I was quoted a price for a 2004 Mazda 3i w/several packages. Invoice price is $16,567; MSRP is $17,940. Due to an alumni program I am in, the price for this car is set at $300 over invoice. However, this dealer said he had to also charge me a $102 dealer prep fee and a $150 "Los Angeles Assessment" fee. What are these charges, and are they bogus? He explained that the L.A. Assessment fee is charged to the dealer by the manufacturer and that it is not negotiable. He explained the dealer prep fee, but it sounded lame, so I forgot what he said.

BTW, on the invoice, the L.A. Assessment fee is only listed in the Invoice column. In the MSRP column, the L.A. Assessment fee is listed as $0.

Thanks!

flashwave · December 2003

I'm not sure if this is the right discussion for this question, but I couldn't figure out how to post a new topic in the smart shopper board.

Anyways, my question is about the difference between buying a used car from a private owner vs buying from a dealer. Would I save on sales tax by buying from a private owner? I checked the DMV site, and it says that when I register the vehicle I will have to pay a use tax. If I were to buy from a dealer, do I pay the use tax and a sales tax? Or are they the same thing? I'm confused. I'm looking to buy a used car for about $25,000. Sales tax is 8.25%, which equals $2,062. If I can save that much by buying from a private owner, that's alot. I'm in California, btw.

jeffmust2 · December 2003

All the dealer guys have gone to bed because its past their bedtime so I'll answer for them...

If you are buying a $25,000 used car in CA and your sales tax is 8.25% the amount, as you state, is $2062.50.

If you buy from a dealer, he will charge you this sales tax amount and it will be listed as such in your agreement documents. Case closed and the dealer will handle the paperwork with the State and DMV.

If you buy the same price vehicle from a private party, call it use tax or sales tax, the DMV will collect this exact same amount from you when you go down there to register the vehicle and transfer title to your name. In a private party deal, you as the new owner are responsible in CA for doing this.

You can go to AAA if you are a member; the lines are a LOT shorter and you don't need an appointment.

The Fudge Factor comes in When Private Parties Collude or when the new owner, on their own, decide to "short" the State by claiming that the sales price was...say...$20,000 and back up this phony sales price with a phony bill of sale.

Then the sales or use tax to be collected at the DMV would be $1,650 - or about $412 less than they should collect.

Of course, the DMV is on to this ruse and will fry your butt during their annual audits if you get unluckly. I do believe it's a felony, and, IMO, hardly worth it to save a few bucks but that never stops The Clever Ones from trying it.

Besides - Arnold needs your money!

masspector · December 2003

"$3/4K play back of invoice?"...I think what butch was trying to say was if the car had an msrp of 20K and an invoice of 19K and the rebate was around 4500 then the CD price would be around 15K (19K-4K rebate= 15K).

what hingram posted was hard to read. Did it mean the dealer was willing to sell at invoice and hingram gets the rebate too? Or was the selling price invoice including the rebate already?

driftracer · December 2003

rebate all day long, but $3-4K back of invoice? Not happening. I don't know anyone with that kind of dealer cash, except on the big ones (Lincoln, Cadillac).

hingram · December 2003

They are selling at invoice (what they call invoice) and then you get the rebate.

They say the invoice is 18245. Edmunds says the invoice is 17500. The dealer's website says the rebate is $4500. The email I got said $3500. I'll call the salesman tomorrow and find out the 411. Yes, I imagine they will let it go at invoice. It's just a matter of which invoice.

You've heard of equipped, not stripped. Well, this unit is stripped.

audia8q · December 2003

....."on the invoice, the L.A. Assessment fee is only listed in the Invoice column..."

That fee is a legit...its the ad fee charged the dealer by mazda. Here in Connecticut they call it the hartford assestment. If you worry about "out the door pricing" then those pesky fees that the mfg charges the dealer become a mute point.

robr2 · December 2003

Keep in mind also that if you do a private party sale many states may not accept what the bill of sale says for the selling price. Here in MA, the RMV charges the sales tax based on the NADA trade in value or your purchase price - whichever is higher. No funny little $1 bills of sale accepted.

bowke28 · December 2003

just found this board, thought id introduce myself...even though most of you know me. ;-)

im a nissan sales consultant, and possibly going back to a honda store as a sales manager soon...dont tell my boss yet...THAT deal still needs some kneading! ;-)

ive been selling cars for 4 years, and have experience with domestics and imports both.

i can give accurate information on regional questions in the midwest (kentucky, indiana, illinois, ohio, michigan, etc...

let me know if i can help.

scanty · December 2003

Is your dealership allowing any wiggle room on Z prices now that winter has kicked in?

prodigalsun · December 2003

Do you think the resale on the new Maxima's will be any better than the previous generation?

Proud owne of a used 02 SE.

audia8q · December 2003

up here in New England the 'Z' can be had for close to invoice....The G35's are a bit higher.

jeffmust2 · December 2003

In general, is it better to lease or to purchase?

driftracer · December 2003

scanty · December 2003

I'm actually shopping them both. Looks like invoice on a G35 coupe decorated the way I want it is ~$500 less than a 350Z Touring with the options I want.

It's a tough choice. I was looking forward to the GT-R, but it looks like there have been significant delays, and it won't appear until the 2007 Tokyo auto show.

volvodan1 · December 2003

I don't post here much but I read everyday. Let me echo what driftracer said: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- !!!!!!!!!!!

driftracer · December 2003

jeffmust2 · December 2003

eom

akangl · December 2003

*tosses jeffmust2 out on his ear and slams the door shut*

Anyone else wanna try the lease vs buy argument?? *shaking fist*

bowke28 · December 2003

here in louisville, KY, we are not moving. i've sold 2 this month myself...people are still buying them up.

prodigalsun...

i think, as long as nissan resists using rebates, that the new maxima will be AT LEAST as good in resale.

jeff...

you REALLY want me to get started?!?! ;-)

scanty again...

the question is this:

do you want 2 seats or 4? with 4 seats (g35), you get a more usable daily driver. if its as a toy or a 2nd/3rd car, id go with the Z.

the Z also is more exclusive and has better name recognition.

bowke28 · December 2003

ok. you asked...give me a few minutes to collect my thoughts, and i'll get this ball a'rollin'!

;-)

dbgindy · December 2003

Yes Ma'am ( gulp)!

Bowke- For the love of God by all that's holy in this season NO. signed the Burning Bush ( hate to have to pull out the big guns but whatever it takes to stop this one again).:-)

bowke28 · December 2003

just wanted to see people squirm a little...lol.

akangl · December 2003

*grabs bowke28 by his ear and hangs him up* Now, are you gonna start with me???

bowke28 · December 2003

start, end, and everything in between! ;-)

scanty · December 2003

I'm looking for another toy to replace my '94 300ZX ragtop. Not afraid of 2 seaters at all. I like both the Z and the G, but I think for the money, you get a lot more car with the G. Nicer interior, sunroof, 18's and Brembos, plus the longer warranty, free loaners, and Infiniti service.

prodigalsun · December 2003

Ouy, that's too bad, considering how they plummet in value. Good for me, though, considering I only buy 2-3 year old cars.

bowke28 · December 2003

all that stuff is fine, but you are going to want a little bit of exclusivity with your car, and the G doesnt offer that. the Z has better performance numbers, and above all, its the only car that looks like a Z.

kyfdx · December 2003

From my point of view, thats the best reason to pick the G.. I think the extended wheelbase helps the looks.. What is weird, is that I had the exact opposite opinion of the old Z. The 2+2 was horrid.

regards,
kyfdx

scanty · December 2003

It's hard to be exclusive when they are selling 30,000+ a year. Latest numbers from autosite show 29,737 Z's vs. 21,978 G35C's through September. If I was really worried about that, I'd keep mine. Only 3,556 made. If it wasn't almost 10 years old...

airone · December 2003

I was reading one of Terry's post the other day and he told a guy his trade would bring around 14 grand. I booked his trade out using NADA and Edmunds. Edmunds trade value came in at $14,200 NADA trade in value came in at $15,700.

I am looking at buying a new 04 Honda Accord. I am using the internet email method. But for my trade I actually took my trade to 4 area dealerships and asked them what the actual cash value would be. I told them that I am looking to buy within the end of the week but first I wanted to get an acurate idea about the price of my trade. I figure it might help me when it comes time to negotiate. Anyways, back to my question. Is Edmunds acurate when trying to figure out a good trade in value that a dealer might give you? So far the best offer I have is about 1k under Edmunds trade in value for my 01 Honda Civic. The car is in great shape. And way under miles. Thanks in advance!

driftracer · December 2003

question, but I certainly understand Terry and the car business.

"What the book says" ( what's shown on Edmunds) is cannon fodder, seriously. What counts is what a car realistically brings in a given area.

Bear in mind that no book or website can buy a car - it takes a human and a checkbook - whether that checkbook is personal or dealer property.

jeffmust2 · December 2003

...in the used car market in most cities...why don't you sell it yourself to a private party? That's the only way to max your return. A clean Civic, just a few years old, without high miles, will go in a week or two if priced right.

Put a sign on it, park in a heavy traffic area over the weekend - like a mall parking lot at Xmas!

If you do go private, might want to wait until January to spend $$$ on a newspaper ad and an online ad (I've had great luck with autotrader.com and car.com) when people get their heads out of the holidays.

Good luck!

qbrozen · December 2003

and just because Edmunds was close on that particular vehicle, doesn't mean it will hit ALL of them correctly (I'm even surprised at that one, but I guess anything is possible). I'm not bashing edmunds, but you do have to realize that auction prices change every day, websites typically don't. Not to mention the lag time from when someone receives an auction report to when they factor into an online pricing service, etc, etc.

butchbr73 · December 2003

i think you need to put some pencil on paper and add the numbers. We are talking about a vehicle that is NOT in high demand, at all. These would typically sell more towards invoice, no suprises, right?

Well, not we have a rebate, supposedly, $4,500, as the person who posted says. That tells me, with the rebate, they ought to be at least $3k back of invoice, if not further. They shouldn't see any of the rebate on the vehicle if its a consumer rebate, it should flow to the customer.

$20k msrp - $18,500 invoice.

lets say we cut it in half, buy for $19,250.
now, we have a $4,500 consumer rebate (I didn't research it so I'm not sure)... where are we are?
$14,750. Thats $3,750 back of invoice. Cool? Not trying to steal the car, nor rape the dealer, etc... most of the savings flow comes from the manufacturer on this typical vehicle.

bowke28 · December 2003

i was basing exclusivity on the fact that the G35 coupe and sedan look identical, and there are alot more G35s on the road than Z's.

dont get me wrong, nothing wrong with the G...i would just go for the Z first.

sounds to me like youve already made up your mind, so unless you ask, im out of it.

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