Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

volcano2 · January 2002

I have a dealer that I feel is really trying to get over on me at the last minute. There are a several charges that he's adding after quoting me an "out the door" price twice. One that's really bugging me is the demand for $350 for motor vehicle charges ($150 for plates & $200 for documents)! I was quoted $130 - $150 a few times, and NJDMV had said I could do it myself for $80 -$100.

When I told him that i wanted to do it myself, he said I couldn't. I'm not sure this is true either??? Thanks.

force98 · January 2002

My '99 BMW 740iL comes off lease in about three months. My wife wants to buy it as it is in immaculate condition and only has 21K miles on it. My BMW dealership has made me what appears to be a great offer. They say they can purchase it from BMW Financial Services at auction cost, CPO it, and sell it back to me for thousands of dollars less than my contracted residual. It would be much cheaper than if I bought it outright from BMWFS, plus I get a CPO car. Any of you dealers work deals like this, even on cars other than BMWs? Thanks!

bolivar · January 2002

Why don't you get this stuff in writing, with signatures, from the dealership?

Who you gonna believe, the Dept of Motor Vehicles or car salesmen?

I'm a long waysfrom NJ, so I have no idea what the law is there. But nothing is 'out the door' until they sign it........

suvshopper4 · January 2002

volcano: I just checked the dealer's paperwork on my '01 RAV4. I purchased Jan '01 in NJ, and the dealer handled the DMV stuff.

Registration/Title fee: $24.50.
[I just transferred my tags, didn't get new ones, but they are not very expensive. And a bigger vehicle would cost more to register.]

Documentary fee: $95.00.
[Pre-printed on the paperwork.]

Sounds like your dealer wants to bump up his profit.

dstrau · January 2002

Back in bought one ion silver metallic, paid 28545.....new tags and plates...........(125) including 20 for dealer "paperwork."........The price was taken from Cars Direct.com.....they didnt do the deal.I went in, talked to them.they were willing to accept the price.(not bad for NYC) region...............had I let them talk tho.might have come down some........this price included the fac. ti dealer incentive.......When I went car shopping with my friend.............the friendly car dealer tried to sell me a car too.(they are so sleazy!)..when I told him about my deal,,he said that I got a good price!!!!!!!!!!!

dstrau · January 2002

Got new plates, and tags..came to $105 + 20 for "doc. fee".how much did they make on this little situation?????????

rroyce10 · January 2002

...... It sounds like a nice 7, it has no miles and the best part of this deal is -- you know the previous owner real well ...l...o...l...

I can't say what they are telling you .. But, find what your pay-off is or what you can purchase the vehicle for "through" BMW, not the dealer -- all do respect, but the dealer is not going to make a move unless, they can make a couple grand ...

Right now as it stands, if the vehicle was run through the auction, it would do "around" $36ish maybe more, if I knew a little more about it .. dings, scratches, color, options, tires, etc, I might be more help.

You are always better off going through the lease Co. -- and don't get to crazy about that "Certified" junk. You can save yourself about $1,500++ and still get a wonderful warranty through Edmunds or somebody, get the protection and save the $$, and forget about all that Dealer BS.

I hope this helps ....

Terry.

raybear · January 2002

Sometimes BMW throws a spiff to the dealers... this enables them to buy a car below the market, and they can then resell it for less also. Sounds like this is the case here.

acrafton · January 2002

Guys - a local Toyota dealer is running really irritating ads that tout "Free onsite tax preparation" and instant "triple your rebate" towards a purchase. They don't give a limit on the ad but the example they give is "$2000 tax rebate becomes a $6000 down payment . . ". What is the angle? I can't belive they are going to an additonal $4k off a car. Are they going to try and add dealer markup to cover this?

Note that I am not interested in buying as I just purchase a couple of cars, but curious.

Thanks
Adam

ctic · January 2002

That's ridiculous because tax rebates vary from $300 to $600 per person. The max is $600, even Bill Gates isn't getting $2000.

If they're talking $2000 tax rebates maybe they mean they'll let you have 3-4 people gang up and buy the car all together, not likely.

If there's free tax preparation on site, maybe they talking about tax refunds instead. If that's the case there's a free car waiting for the guy who got too much deducted from his paycheck. And what's the deadline for this? Most refunds aren't going to come back for a few weeks even if you file 1/1. Lastly, the free tax preparation offer is scary, would you trust them to do your taxes? It isn't that dealer who's ripping people off in NJ doing that ad is it?

ghulet · January 2002

These ads are running all over here in Chicago. This totally appeals to the 'buy a car the one day a year you have money' crowd. It's sad.

I have to guess in the case of this Toyota dealer, he'll give you the 'triple refund back' only if he can sell you the mop-n-glo for $995, the stripe package for $395, tacked on to MSRP. There's gotta be several catches.

isellhondas · January 2002

Somehow, I can't picture a couple bringing in W-2 forms, 1011's and personal records to a car dealerhip for free tax preparation!

Maybe next month they will offer a free root canal job or something!

dmathew347 · January 2002

Can someone explain how a rebate works?
If a car invoices at 25K, and there is a 1000 rebate, does the manufacturer send you a check for the 1000 once you purchase the car. Does that check have to be used towards the car purchase?How long does that typically take.
Thanks

KCRam · January 2002

Hi dmathew347

Rebates are subtracted post-purchase. You have the option of receiving a check from the manufacturer, or applying the amount to your purchase after taxes and fees are calculated on the selling price.

For example, if you buy a car that sells for $20,000, has 5% sales tax, and $250 in fees, the car will cost $21,250. At that point, the rebate amount would be subtracted at the time of purchase, reducing your total pay to $20,250, or you can pay the full amount and wait for the check in the mail.

kcram
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sandyc24pa · January 2002

A dealer faxed me a vehicle inquiry report for a Toyota Camry Solara that I am interested in purchasing. One of the items listed as a dealer cost item was TDA in the amount of $474.00. This is listed with other charges such as Destination Charge, Dealer Holdback, Wholesale Financial Reserve. What does this TDA charge represent?

tboner1965 · January 2002

I'm getting over 3K back due to some mis-calculation on my part...

TB

raybear · January 2002

Toyota Dealers Association. Covers advertising, promotions and other sundry items. It's real.

ctic · January 2002

Why don't they include it like in other businesses? Imagine if restaurants started including it:

Egg fried rice $6.50
Won ton soup $3.00
Sweet and Sour Pork $7.00
Advertising/sundries $1.50
Tax $1.80
Total $19.80

qwalls · January 2002

They do, if you pay MSRP. You don't have access to "invoice price" at a restaurant, but the price you pay covers all expenses.

isellhondas · January 2002

That Honda doesn't seperate it.

ezaircon4jc · January 2002

products I've purchased over the last 20 years don't seperate that stuff either. At least the way I buy them. I like to use the AAA or Costco buying services. IIRC it's 2% over dealer cost.

isellhondas · January 2002

That 2% would no doubt work on a Taurus but don't try that on a Thunderbird!

bmengotto · January 2002

I am thinking of getting this used 2001 CRV SE. The owner wants $21K. He only has 11K miles on it. I drove it today, the CRV's are loud on the freeway! Anyway, I might just own it by this Friday. Super clean. He also bought the 7 year extended warranty that he told me is transferable.

)

My wife and I like the 2002, but we know that we would only be able to afford the EX. We would like the SE, but 1) it's not here in Northern Cali yet, 2) it will be far to expensive.

I stopped by a dealer after seeing the private seller. They have a brand new 01 CRV SE, same color and everything. They are selling it for $23,240 (destination charges included). This is not including the tax, lic, registration. The dealer was telling me that they would wheel and deal on this to get it off their lot. He also mentioned that they still might have special financing on the 01's (1.9-3.9%). Whatever. The way I see it, I'm gonna get the best deal of my life for $21K.

I have to admit that the new motor and new looks of the 2002 are nice, but at the same time that "new generation" engine is just that, NEW. I don't know what the reliability of it will be, but based on Honda's rep, it will probably be outstanding. I think I can save our family a lot of money and settle for the 2.0 liter...

raybear · January 2002

Ford does break out advertising. It's still a good deal you're getting.

mark156 · January 2002

bmengotto.... are you saying there is a brand-spanking new 2001 CRV on the lot in the same color for just a few thousand more? And the new one has no miles and a longer factory warranty because it will start when you buy compared to the used one. The extended warranty may be good or it may not be; and, does it cover everything? I'm also sure that a new car interest rate will be cheaper than for the used car. (I'm assuming you are going to finance) For that small of a difference in price, I would rather have the new one. Just my .02.

Happy Motoring, Mark

bmengotto · January 2002

Mark,

New one has the 3 yr 36,000. 8 mo old has extended warranty that covers all mechanical/electrical/some cosmetic. The old one's extended warrenty is for 7 years or 100,000 mi. The total price, tax and all that is $21k for the used vehicle. The loan is for $21k @6.99 for 4 years. Honda is offering %3.9 if you qualify. Therefore: 21273 is the invoice on the 01. If I got them to go that low, then I would still be paying more 2x (tax on the purchase, and interest on the loan). My tax is %8.25. So that would make it 23028 for a new vehicle with a shorter warranty. Isn't that throwing $2000 away? I could sock that $2k into an IRA.

isellhondas · January 2002

Hondas usually are pretty troublefree. the warranty is nice...but...

im_brentwood · January 2002

Invoice on an 01 CRV is $21K and change? I think you ought to be able to buy a leftover 01 for close to that dontcha think?

Bill

ghulet · January 2002

Don't 02 CRVs have a new body? I'd maybe forego some of the 'doo-dads' on the 01 SE (either of them) and see what kinda deal I could do on an 02. In the long run, if you spend an extra grand or two, you'll likely get a lot of it back come resale time, no?

grk235 · January 2002

I realize there are many variables associated with this question but could someone give me an idea of how long it generally takes from assembly to delivery on a 2002 Suburban?

My apologies if this has already been discussed ... could find nothing using search...

Thanks.

raybear · January 2002

Just a couple of weeks from assembly, six to eight on an order.

grk235 · January 2002

Thanks for the delivery estimate.

acrafton · January 2002

I am confused as why some dealers don't post the price on their cars - it makes me think they use the 'sucker'pricing method - how big a sucker do they think you are? A dealership I recently bought a 2000 MB E320 at posted all the prices on their cars and I would occasionally walk thru and see what interested me. I found my E320 this way - recognized the price was good and went back the next day and bought. Well, I was in the neigborhood last night and stopped to walk the lot (they have tons of used cars). Lo and behold they have removed ALL the prices from every car. No there is a stick that lists the make/model, etc and the NADA Suggested Value and in the are labled price it says "contact salesman for price".

I don't get it and would never have bought the MB had they done this - what is up? Did the Sales Mgr go to some trade seminar that taught you can get extra $ doing this?

Thanks
Adam

isellpotiac · January 2002

the sales manager wants a customer to talk with a sales person. I understand where you are coming from. Do you understand where the dealership is coming from? If you saw the 200MB with no price on it would you have asked someone for the price or simply kept looking?

acrafton · January 2002

This particularly instance i would not have purchased the E320 - I was mildly interested and it was the posted low price that caught my attention and made me VERY interested. It had what I wanted and was priced well under what the other MB dealers sold them for - so, had there been no price I would have assumed it was too high.

But, as I said, I wasn't out looking and needing a car, "just browsing" and the price pushed me over . . .

Adam

tiredofmanual · January 2002

Since I moved to the area I now live, I have been using the service department of the local dealership. And not just for warranty/recall work. I had my 15,000 mile service there and I was planning on getting an oil change (and another warranty issue) done there next week. Am I considered a burden to the service department?

Second, I had decided to buy a new car so I went to a salesman at the local dealership and ordered through him. I told him that I was buying on the x-plan so I get the same price everywhere but I wanted to buy from them since I use their service department. Well, now for various reasons I had to cancel my order. My salesman was very nice about it, told me not to worry about it, and to just stop by the next day and the sales manager would have a check for my deposit. I stopped in and the sales manager asks me a bunch of questions about why I was cancelling and then says that in 3 or 4 days I would have the deposit check mailed to me. I gave it a week and a half, you never know about the post office, and called to check on things. The sales manager said "oh yeah, we sent that out. I don't know why you didn't get it. Give it a couple more days and you should have it." It's been a little over two weeks now and still no check. What is the most civil and polite way to get them to give me my money back? I still want to use the service department there so I don't want things to get ugly.

audia8q · January 2002

No your not a burned to the service deparment. We are there to provide any service to your car. Warranty and routine work.

About your deposit..was it a check? if so the accounting department of the dealership may have a policy not to refund check deposits until 10 business days pass...or something similar. If they are just passing the buck then
I'm going to give you a suggestion that might seem a little unconventional but should be effective. Call to make your service appointment and ask to speak to the service manager, it will help if you know his or her name. Explain that you like the service department and that you have been happy cusotmer since moving to the area and would very much like to continue doing business, BUT...then explain your problem about the deposit and ask if he or she can help or direct you up with the general manager....Its not normally the business of the serv mgr to stick his nose in a sales related problem, but your "his/her" customer and you have value to the company.

Good luck

Rich

dstrau · January 2002

Picked up a 2001 Saab 9-3 SE auto hatchback (satin silver metallic) in June 2001 for 28545..that included the dealer incentive. Unfortunately for me I had a leased vehicle which they didnt want because they were so overstocked. On top, was sales tax (NYS), 8.25 % and tax and tags. got the price from CarsDirect.com.and went on my own.The odd thing was that the dealer acepted the offer.Probably because it was a cash deal...........that they weren;t going to let walk

nyccarguy · January 2002

After leasing my car for 2+ years (with less than one year left) I was looking through my owners manual and found my lease agreement. It apprears that even some of the most educated of buyers get screwed sometimes. I noticed a $600 Admin/Documentation fee. Damn you people! Why try to hide it? If you need to make a certain amount on a car, then set that price. Don't tell me how you're selling the car to me at a cheap price above (or at invoice) and then tack on a $600 documentation fee! I didn't fight tooth and nail with this guy to determine the price, he offered me a deal on the car, I determined it was fair and I took it. If he need to make an extra $600, then give me a price $600 over what you were going to originally quote me. It would be an extra $16 per month on my lease. I guess the dealer wanted the cash up front. Oh well. Now I know!

isellpotiac · January 2002

Slow down. I am 100% sure that the fee you are talking about is the Ac fee charged by the bank that bought your car, not the dealership.

nyccarguy · January 2002

There was a $450 Aquisition Fee charged to me by the bank. The Admin/Doc fee is a seaparate line item from the Aquisition Fee.

BTW: Sorry for the Damn you people comment. I didn't really mean it.

isellpotiac · January 2002

It seems you got touched up for $600. There is a better way for a finance guy to make that $600 instead of just tacking it on.

landru2 · January 2002

I have no idea about what this $600 is on your contract. But, you did say it is on your contract? If so, how was it hidden? Was it written in invisible ink that didn't appear for 2+ years? Or did you neglect to read this document before you signed it?

nyccarguy · January 2002

Touched Up! Very Good!

tiredofmanual · January 2002

I called the sales manager today and from what I could hear of his conversation with someone else there, it appears as though my refund request got lost in the paperwork in the finance department. I was assured that the check would be cut and in the mail ASAP. I guess we'll see. If it arrives by Friday, I have to assume they weren't playing games and go through with my plans to apologize for cancelling with a gift certificate to a nice local restaurant for both the salesman and the sales manager. Thoughts?

osubeav · January 2002

I've been looking for a barely used 2001 Jeep Cherokee. I've found a few in my area searching dealer inventories. After requesting more information on one I found, I received the info along with the asking prices. The note included prices - KBB Retail: $21,000, KBB Wholesale: 18,500, Special Internet Price: 17,999. (Also found out it's a buy-back. Yuck)

I went to the KBB site and entered the info on the vehicle (2001 4wd Sport, well equipped 14000 miles). The site gave me a trade-in value of $15,165. Edmunds shows trade-in as 14200, private party as $15250, Dealer retail as $17200. I e-mailed the guy back and asked him why such a big difference.

He emailed back and said that trade-in was normally $1000 back of wholesale. He got the same amount on the KBB site as I did but thought is was wrong. He e-mailed me a screen shot of the program he uses (Karpower) showing the higher prices.

I've seen this from other dealers, too, and am curiuos why the huge discrepancies? I know market can change the prices, but the market on SUV's is soft and Jeep has the new Liberty out, so the Cherokee market should be down.

I guess I'm looking for a good starting point.

picturemykids · January 2002

Lets say we want to purchase a used vehicle for
$ 14,000.00 and we want to put a cash downpayment
of $ 4,000.00, We don't have great credit but not to bad either. We don't have any other bills but our house payment and and car insurance. We have a rental where we make extra income from otherwise thats all. One dealer said we would not be approved because they need more money down
payment . We talked a while came back and said
"my boss won't let me sell the car at the price i quoted you because its to low , but if you have
more $ downpymt you can take it that price" so
we walked out. But is it impossible to get a loan
in our situation. It seems like its easier at times to buy a house than a used car.

raybear · January 2002

That's because it's harder to hide a house!

Try some of the online services to see what you qualify for, then you can go back to the dealer and buy the car. No one says you have to finance there.

bretfraz · January 2002

What?

If you're a homeowner I can't see why you are having difficulty obtaining a loan.

You are making a massive down payment - almost 30% of the purchase price. Any sensible loan officer will jump all over that because you are using your money to reduce his risk (the loan). That kind of commitment is exactly what banks want to see from buyers. They get nervous when people want a loan without a down payment. But that's not you.

The comment about the price is too low is a joke. Leave them and never go back. "I'm sorry ma'am but our prices are too low, we need to raise them. I'm sure you won't mind...." If you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal based on the prices in the menu, what would you do if the waiter came back and told you that you would not be served the meal unless you paid more for it??? What would your reaction be??? What would you say to the waiter????

Follow raybear's advice and get approved for a loan before you go to any dealers. There are several online banks that can approve you; some are promoted right here at Edumnd's.

Go to http://www.bankrate.com and read the Auto Loans section. Play with their payment calculators so you can know what your payment will be considering your down payment, interest rate, term of loan, and vehicle purchase price. All these variables can be manipulated till your blue in the face.

And next time someone tells you they're gonna raise the price or require more than a 30% down payment, laugh at them and leave. There are too many cars out there to buy.

protegextwo · February 2002

Rich, I was hoping you might answer a couple of questions for me? Terry is on vacation, in Costa Rica and Bill seems a bit overwhelmed at the Real World Trade In Value discussion and I know your a sales manager for a Mazda dealership (and a great guy to boot! :-}), sooo... I was hoping you might venture a couple of opinions?

I'm looking to trade or sell one of my 2000 PRO-ES's. I would replace it with either a 2003 Toyota Corolla or a 2002 Mazda PRO-5. I owe the bank $10,000 and Edmunds TMV shakes out at $8,500 (trade) and $10,000 (private sale value). My 2000 PRO-ES shapes up like this:

Emerald Mica-
*35,000 miles (yikes, kinda stiff)-
*Auto Tranny-
*All service completed at Mazda Dealer and records are maintained in 3 ring binder-
*Power Moon roof-
*Non-smoker car-
*Recently had a complete detail including engine pressure wash-
*AM/FM stereo/CD/Tape-
*Very clean condition inside and out (no door dings, however a couple of small stone chips on nose-
*South Central, Penna-

Here goes:
In your opinion how close is Edmunds' TMV to real life?

All things equal should I do better trading my PRO-ES in at my local co-branded Toyota/Mazda Dealer?

If I trade vs. private sale, how is the negative equity shown in the deal?

Respectfully,
Larry

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