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Audi A8

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Comments

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    That sounds strange...Personally I get around twenty six mpg on the highway at about eighty mph with the Audi....It would seem that if I get that and the engines is 4.2, a larger engine would pollute more....We have a bmw, and it is a fine car along with the Mercedes...In my opinion the interior of the Audi is the best of the three... Good luck with your choice Tony
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    I think that Edmunds only lists pounds of smog forming pollution.

    If you check out http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ you’ll see that the A8 has annual green house emissions of 9.2 tons and the 750i has 9.2 tons.

    Although the 750i is given an EPA Air pollution score of 6 compared to the A8’s 2 (higher is better).

    If that’s your cup of tea…personally, if I were concerned about emissions (which I’m not...they're all "pretty good"), I wouldn’t choose either of these.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Although I reallly don`t understand, I`l take their word for it...I wonder what an airplane pollutes, say fully loaded?? Tony
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Honestly speaking, all of the cars you named will produce more pollution than say, a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. These are very powerful cars, which takes a lot of energy to create. So in hindsight, there are some alternatives, but if remaining low on pollution is a major concern, then these class of cars may not be the best picks.

    BTW, these cars also are LEV or ULEV-cerified, so the pollution and emission indexes may not be as bad as you think.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi
    I was reading on the S board hat you are contemplating the amg s, and a few others....I almost ordered the Bentley and wonder what you think of that brand?? They are expensive, but I don`t think they would be changing the body styling any time soon...Personally I think it is a great looking car, although Merc sure doesn`t..One of the few spots I disagree with him....I really do not think the Maseratti is all that much different than the Audi---just in an overall way...Now it can be ordered in so many different interior colors it will blow your mind, but the ones I saw although quite beautiful wern` that much different....For some reason I have not seen any Mercedes interiors that appeal to me, nor bmw, although my wife`s in a tan is o.k. but surely nothing to write home about...Good luch with your next choice. Tony ps Hi Eric-I guess wt will be just you and me to carry the flag
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Gosh Tony, don't write me off so fast! ;) You're forgeting that we just bought an S8(coming in October now, according to Ingolstadt). And it will be a while(at least 2 months) before I decide to give up my beloved W-12.

    As for the Bentley, the Flying Spur is a very understated design. It is flawless, a bit more better proportioned than the hunch-backed Conti GT. But the 200k price tag and rarity( currently 1yr waiting list) kept me from gettting one. And you can't go wrong with all of that Audi/V-Dub hardware baked into it, as far as reliablility/driveablity goes.

    Mercedes dropped the ball on the W221, as they did with W220 on the interiors. It would be the complete package if they would've used 10% more of polish in them, almost there but not quite. I guess that's why they offer the Expresso option on interiors(not sure about the new model tho). But even here, they still can't quite cut the hides like Audi.

    I've ruled out the Quattroporte, for now anyway, as the Cambiocorsa transmission is way to complex and overly complicated. They need to definetely hook-up with Audi to buy their the DSG technology, or use a conventional auto or Ferrari's new F1 out of the new 430. Altho the Q-P GT is very exhilirating to drive, probably tops in the class, the W-12 has so spoiled me that trying to figure what gear I'm in is not worth it in this type of car. I'll drive my Vette Z06 instead.

    BTW, this car has served me so well that our family will always have an Audi somewhere. My daughter and sister are enjoying their S4 Cab's very well, and my Mario Andretti of a wife(lol) is anticipating her S8 so bad that she has went to purchase Audi's driving gloves for this winter.

    I just have a friend who's very interested in buying the car as the W-12's are very hard to come by, especially factory-order fully loaded ones. He totalled his Phaeton on the BQE the other day and really fell hard for the W-12 powertrain that's in(oops, was) his Phaeton. So to sop up his sadness, he bought a completely loaded A6 4.2 just yesterday to complement his Audi TT 3.2 Twin Turbo and wants my W-12 to complete his Audi love squirm. The guy is an Audi nut who actually worked for the company to help develop Quattro over 25 years ago in Ingolstadt ( a complete techno geek). A very good friend who's stealing a very good car from me.
  • lifeisgoodlifeisgood Member Posts: 6
    The A8 is by far the best value in the luxury car market today. I recently purchased my third fully loaded A8 and continue to be impressed with the build quality, the technology, the ride and handling, the gas mileage, the exterior styling, the interior styling and roominess, the solar cooling, the comfortable seats and the complimentary comments from friends and strangers. I could not be happy owning a BMW or a Mercedes after being spoiled by the sport-luxury balance found in the Audi experience. I am a car guy and my expectations are high when I shop for a new car. I always come back to Audi because it exemplifies everything I expect in the car I drive.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Right on!! Tony
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    You know I sure won`t be giving up on you....We, Eric and myself and you have gone a long way together, it`s just sort of a change , although short lived...You have an interesting situation to face...The only car I really think is nicer than the a8 is the Bentley, which I thought was priced around one hundred eighty...As you are a master `Trader` it would be tricky to not get caught in that price range for the short term holding period, so that is out...Mercedes is the mystic brand, so I guess that is going to be the choice, so I would get Merc to give his input I think his e mail is listed...Tony
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Absolutely agree! "Audi is prestige redefined" as a European friend and business owner once told me about the Audi experience in Europe. As a car nut, I have many friends that are the same and that live in Europe and Germany specifically. They always look puzzled when it comes to American's obsession with BMW and Mercedes-Benz (Lexus doesn't event get mentioned in the same sentence)in relation to Audi as this is not the case on the other side of the pond. They always remind me that MBs are taxis and BMWs are status climbers while Audi represents German luxury as epitomized by Horch. I have heard this many times and find the comments interesting. I think it has lot to do with German's and European's obsession with motorsports as national past times, and nothing is bigger than the 24 Hours of Le Mans where Audi rules.
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    Yo...Tony..Just back from Vegas on a 4-day business trip. Yuck! ..love it for a quick vacation with the wife, but hate it for business....

    Anyway, all is well here....just took the car out for our dinner and it's still a kick to get into it. I don't think I will ever feel differently.

    By the way,I only have a little less then 3K miles on it!

    I guess I use the bike a lot...

    Eric
  • lifeisgoodlifeisgood Member Posts: 6
    Your views of Mercedes and BMW are exactly why I prefer to drive Audi's. I am interested in an automobile designed and engineered by a company that understands how to stir the passion of the sport/luxury car segment. Audi continues to do it in spades. My son just ordered a 2007 A3 3.2 DSG Quattro to take to Europe this fall. An absolutely beautiful car that is best in class and once again Audi sets the benchmark by which other car company's will be required to guage their products. I will not settle for buying anything less than the best automobile value in the marketplace, which is exactly what Audi expects from their target audience. Audi Rules!!!!!
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I`m coming up on five thousand....Most of those miles were `duty` miles---so they don`t count...I read where if you get trash stuck in the drainage hole it can do electrical damage---old model, so to be on the safe side I got a cover...Once on it stays on, so I haven`t drive it at all the last week, so am looking forward to tomorrow....I would think Vegas would be fun, particularly if you won, and ate at some of the good resturants.......Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    I've read that, about the drainage hole. Not too much of a problem in NYC, though!!

    Vegas is usually fun, but this was a business trip. As far as winning goes, I never win in the long run. They don't build cities likie that by losing money.
    ..and the free trips are from the hotels are always the most expensive!!
    They used to "limo" us back and forth to Atlantic City every other weekend, but when the granddaughter came we cut that out.

    Anyway, I just called the dealer to ask when I should bring the car in for service...and was told any time after 4K miles would be fine (and covered for free service).

    Eric

    Anyway,
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Just a quick question about Atlantic City....When I went there , maybe ten or more years ago, the casino part was just as bright and active as you could imagine, but if you looked west it was dark and gloomy...Has that changed?? I also loose, then eat at a poor food counter take a walk on the beach--which is pretty---go home Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    In AC, the "strip" is brightly colored, but there is a "gloom" over the whole city in my opinion. The casinos pay people to ride buses there to gamble with money they don't have (at least not to 'throw away').

    I like to gamble...maybe a little too much :-), but not with anything but disposble income.

    Vegas, on the other hand, is a lot more to my liking.

    And yes, once you travel off the boardwalk (or the marina area now) the city is pretty shabby. There is a lot of money coming into the city, but it is not really helping the people there at all.

    Gonna try Foxwoods soon....
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Drove back to S.C today, around three and a half hours..Everytime I think something is amis in the car, it turns out to be me...I set the gpm , but as the printing is sort of small and I had my dark glasses on, I really set it to mph...I drove along and was amazed as the number got larger and larger...I attributed it to being on a general down hill slope for the first number of miles....Then thought aha something wrong...Not--and the real number turned out to be twenty seven mpg..(instrument )...I further find with the sirus (sp)satelite that I rarely change the station, and have not spent enough time learning how it can work..I like to be able to push the different seat buttons while on the move, and have the seat go to those settings..Lexus would not let you do that..Strangely I also really enjoy the adjustable arm rest...Such a small thing....Tony
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I phoned today to set up the five thousand mile service...I took a low stance to see what would happen...The service manager was polite but vague, and then said I could bring the car in on Friday...I said ok, and asked about a loaner...He said that it would take an hour and a half and that there usually wasn`t a loaner....Further that it wasn`t this Friday but next ...I asked why not do it tomorrow...He said that his two service people were in a wreck and the third was at school....We settled on next Monday, and all is cool....I now wonder what would have happened it the car were broken??

    I personally think this is the thing that all dealerships could learn from Lexus...The caring for the customer...They all have the super fast computers that trigger a personal response once the name is typed in...The Audi is a new dealer, and I can easily get the manager for whatever, but I would personally like to deal with the regular people whose job it is to make a business work...As I have alluded in the past , it takes time and effort to accomplish this, and this is why imo Lexus will close the gap more quickly than anticipated....

    The above is just a recap --and I am not at all upset with my experience---just that there is a ways to go with the dealership networks...My car has been with out problems, and I am thankful Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    Please keep me (us) posted...

    Eric
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Tony, I sure wish that you were here in NY as my few service encounters have been without incident. I can definetely refer this dealer to someone. A very knowledgeable staff, and, IMHO, better service than my previous encounters with both Lexus and MB.
  • ayyateayyate Member Posts: 53
    My experience, here in LA, has been excellent - similar to that of the previous writer. Although, since my dealer is one of those mega-dealers that sells and services many marques, including Lexus, it is entirely possible he has transferred some of his customer service knowledge over to his Audi store. Nevertheless, I have never had it so good at a service facility.
  • foster1foster1 Member Posts: 17
    You may be interested in looking at the following site: http://1.8t.org/dealers/?fz=22312&fzr=25&sd=desc
    I don't know where this site originated, but it rates Audi dealers and has customer comments. My local dealer in northern Virginia, HBL, is rated one of the worst in the country--262 out of 274 dealers. They've treated me OK in my one visit, but billed my credit card for the "free" loaner several weeks later, without my permission, and never corrected it when they (Enterprise) said they would. I had to have it disputed with Discovery to get rid of the charge, and this has happened to at least one other person using that dealership.
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    Wow....262! Mine is *much* better. He is 234th!!!!!!!

    Eric
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    As the shop is just up the road from the office, I decided to drop by and get a sense of what was going on....Drove up and , as said, there was only one visible mechanic...The service adviser is a nice low key fellow, and I looked at the service book , and there were very very few appointments...It was explained that his loaners were committed to people who were coming from Savannah, which is a little more than a hundred miles away...I certainly didn`t want to possibly inconvenience anyone so I got my appointment just about when was previously scheduled, and as he knew of my problem and I his everything worked out fine.Imagine driving that far for an appointment

    It really is a problem for those that start a new dealership from scratch....There is a large new building almost empty of customers and mechanics, a fairly large inventory, and from my observation absolutely no advertising....I`m sure the owner knows what he is doing, but I think it will take a long time to get people aware of Audi and them...Some of our fellow posters profess that they are not interested in the financial well being of an auto company, but if a company is making alot of money they then have he resources to take care of their customers...I am familiar with bmw down the street , and they have a good sized number of loaners, as well as Lexus, which is moving almost across the street from Audi, which I think will help Audi....I have had no problems at all, and I really like the car.... and the dealership is most attractive Tony
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I dropped the car off , at my convenience, and the five thousand mile service was done....I asked to have the tires rotated, and was told--politely--that there would be a charge....I agreed and they were rotated, for no charge...A nicety...Got the loaner a 3 which was a swift little car....Met with the manager, and still suggested that Audi do a little more advertising...He said that Audi was just that way and didn`t do much advertising...He said things wore slow, but coming along...A slow Monday evening shaping up to be a slow week....Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    Sounds like all-in-all a very good experience. Glad to hear it!

    Eric
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    It was...Thanks....How have you been `My Friend` ? It is warming up down here in the South....I`l send some your way Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    Things are good, Tony. No complaints. Warmer weather is here, so I will be very happy to use the bike more and more. I usually ride through the winter, but as I get older, the ol' bones ain't what they used to be and the car gets more and more use.

    Eric
  • georgev1georgev1 Member Posts: 14
    hello
    i'm trying to decide between a preowned 04 A8L with 10,600 miles and a new A8.
    do you think there is a difference in the way the longer L
    handles?
    also, does quattro drive a little "heavy"?
    geo
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The differences in handling is so minute that it's very un-noticable. When I was in the process of purchasing my W-12, I drove an A8 Sport, and it's handling was only a smidge better than the longer L. The W-12 earns points in the ride department, where the extra 5" of wheelbase soaks up bumps with aplomb. Then if you haul passengers often, it should be noted that the rear legroom gives some limos competition.

    BTW: What's the asking price on the '04? And has it had the MMI recall done on it?
  • georgev1georgev1 Member Posts: 14
    thanx for the reply!
    we are down to $55,500
    i am still working ...
    more importantly WHAT RECALL ?? lol
    george
  • georgev1georgev1 Member Posts: 14
    also...doesn't 10,600 miles sound LOW for an '04?
    premium pkg, sirius radio, adaptive cruise..i am kind of excited..
    i simply love the way it looks, i just wonder if the brandy-new a8 might be a little tighter. i just like the idea of saving $20K or so..whaddya think?
    i DO like
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Yes indeed the mileage is quite low for a 2 year old car. Figure only about 4-5k miles a year. 55k may be a bit high, I'd try to knock'em down to around 50k even, given the fact that you can get a A8 for 68k brand new.

    The recall for the '04 involves the MMI system. It would randomly shutdown for hours or days and power up randomly. NOTE: The entire interior operating system runs through this system, so I'd take it to a dealer to make sure the service has been done. They'll be able to tell just by running the VIN through the database.
  • georgev1georgev1 Member Posts: 14
    thanks again..
    i should have mentioned that it's a dealer offering me this car
    it is a CPO and comes with the 100,000K miles warranty
    i am concerned with the 'ratings' feedback on edmunds
    seems like a lot of eletrical issues, but i love the car
    i'm doubtful they will go to $50K, if i got them to $53K i think i'd be happy
    george
  • coloradoa8lcoloradoa8l Member Posts: 12
    My man what are you talking about? The new body stlye has only been out for 3 model years. I have an 2006 A8L and it's the best ride I have ever owned. I am coming from a S-Class and I can tell with confidence it's far better than any other luxury sedan under 100K you can buy. There won't be an new A8 body until 2010 releasing in 2009.
  • coloradoa8lcoloradoa8l Member Posts: 12
    I leased a 2006 back in March and fought the same battle you are going between New and Used. I drove both L and Short and could not feel much of a difference, But the L seemed quieter and rode a little better with passengers.
    As far as through the curves go, Your only talking about 6 more inches. Good luck you are going to buy the finest sedan on the market. That quattro is like it's on tracks in the wet weather.
  • georgev1georgev1 Member Posts: 14
    thank you..
    sounds like you are enjoying the ride!
    how many miles have you driven so far?
    how's the MMI?
    perhaps more importantly, how is your dealer treating you?
    george
  • coloradoa8lcoloradoa8l Member Posts: 12
    It will be out in Nov of this year.
    It is now out in Europe.
    That car is Bad to the bone!
  • coloradoa8lcoloradoa8l Member Posts: 12
    So far about 3,500 miles and I love each and everyone of them. I love the fact that you only see about 1 other A8 a month. I took the tags off the back and the exec's in the business park drop there jaws when they see it. I drove by Mike Anderson's house (Denver Broncos) and he did the side to side whiplash look as I drove by. My son was laughing.
    The MMI is great, Big dial and easy to navigate. The dealer has great customer service. No service yet but they seem on top of it. I am sure the MMI is the new post recall so I would not worry.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I just returned from a weekend out in the Hamptons with great praise for my car. I had two different people on separate occassions tell me that it is very nice to see something different other than the usual MB, BMW, Jag, Lexus, even Caddy.

    They were in awe over the details of the car, which are very understated. I let a few people sit in the inside and compare to there Lexuses and MB's, and it was no contest says one guy, who just purchased a leftover '06 model(unlucky fella). The owner of a doughnut/butcher shop(Dreesen's if anybody's familiar) is in the process of receiving his A8L Sport that he traded his '01 LS430 in for. He mentioned that the A8 is the best kept secret in the biz. I concurred, naturally.

    The W-12 is still running like a champ. Around mid-summer I'll replace the factory 20" tires for some Michelin Pilot Sport 2's that have received rave reviews on many upscale European cars.

    I do have one quibble tho: I find it hard not to check the oil level in the car as the computer doesn't tell me to service until 7k miles or so, which I'm not used to as I'm an old guy who's used to the old 3k mile intervals.

    BTW: We got word on Friday that Audi will begin building our S8 in September. Can't wait.

    Tony, Eric- How's everything??
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I was just sitting here thinking of you two.....I to have been getting complements , which I`n not use to....Further on the trips I seem to be taking at a fairly rapid pace, the cars seem to let me pass very quicky.....I haven`t seen one 8 on the road between North and South Carolina, but I did see a patrolman right behind me with the bumper that could be used to push a car....It did look like the front end of the Audi, and I was also afraid I was about to get a ticket when I realized it was a trooper...No bad luck like that...I also am not use to the oil not being changed for such long intervals....It`s a nice thing not be have to go in so frequently.. Eric I am sure your grandchildren anr getting accustomed to the extra nice back seating area? and you are enjoying driving the car on rainy days particularly?? You two have fun as the summer time is coming up quicky Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    ..for me was last weekend, when I took Katharine from Bronxville to Manorville, LI (Great petting zoo!)

    The 1-1/4hr trip was a pleasure. The seats are really fantastic, and the little bit longer-than-usual trip allowed be to fiddle with steering wheel position. Pretty close to perfect now.

    Loving the car....

    Alway a pleasure to see a new message on this board and to keep in touch...

    Eric
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Great to see you are enjoying the W12. I get the same reactions here in Los Angeles regarding the A8L although I am seeing at least several A8s everyday along with a plethora of new Audis running around LA. Anyway, I am very interested on your take on the tires. I have 20" rims on my W12 as well with the Pirelli P-Zero Directionales. What is your take on them and do you think the Michelins would be better in terms of ride. My 05' A6 4.2 S-Line and my 06' A6 3.2 Avant have the Pilot Sports and they feel very good.

    Congrats again on your S8. I am waiting for the R8.
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Like you guys, I am a stickler for maintenance. Regardless, I have my dealer change my oil on my A8L every 4 thousand miles. It may be overkill, but I feel like I am doing good by my "little guy." I do this on all my Audis and my "kids" have never let me down. I think it is the simplist yet most important thing one can do to maintain the health of an engine is to too change oil regularly and frequently.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    It does seem extreme to change the oil for so many years at three thousand miles, and then the Germans say five thosand once, then say ten thousand or more before the next.....I personally think you are right, and will probably go with five thousand..Tony
  • emaussemauss Member Posts: 151
    ...when I called earlier the dealer said "why???"

    it ran fine for 3 years....

    (e)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The Pirelli Directionales(all series) are known for their true sporting nature, and will porbably give some of the other tires(Goodyear Supercar F1's for instance) a good run for the money.

    BUT, the Pilot Sport 2's split the difference. The Pirelli's have a very stiff sidewall, thus harshening the ride. The Michelins, of course made with good quality, gives you the comfort of an all season tire, but when things get hairy, they hold their own, ESPECIALLY with our AWD-equipped cars. Remember that the A8 holds corners and steers about as good as a 7-Series BMW, believe or not. So the tires can only aid this.

    The most remarkable thing about this is that we New Yorkers/Englanders encounter our fair share of crazy weather(Something you Califorians miraculously escape), and these tires actually offer a better grip rating than some hi-po winter tires. At 390 a pop, it's a no-brainer for me.

    BTW: The wife told me that I'd have to part with my beloved weekend toys, the Vette Z06 and my JGC SRT-8 to aquire the R8 V-10, but SHE can have her S8 because she parted with the CLS 55. How about that. I have to give up two cars compared to her one. Go figure. I'll do extra house chores to butter her up to let me get an R8, the poor man's Lambo.
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Thank you for the information. Yes, the Pirellis do have a very hard and stiff sidewall (I have already replaced two due to damage to them), but they grip well. I will look into the Pilot Sport as I do like the tire on my other Audis. Well, I hope you do not have to give up two cars to get the R8, though it might be worth it once you are behind the wheel. I am waiting to place my order once the details become available on the R8 V10. Thanks for the input.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Well it is a slow Sunday, so here is a story----As I was driving back from the mountains I thought of my grandparents and what their trip entailed...Around the turn of the century say 1905 or so, they would leave Charleston and travel to an inn near Ashville N. C called Grove Park....They traveled about the same route as I26 by stagecoach. The trip took around a week, maybe five days. Along for the ride would be my mother and aunts (uncle youngest and not born),and they were pretty young themselves....Here on the same trip driving along in the a8 comfortable and cool,around eighty mph am I..and my trip is about three and a half hours...I`d bet the value of the dollar back then if converted now, would enable them to buy an a8 with some left over just for the cost of the trip and lodging for a couple of months.. My how times have changed, and in my opinion for the better even though there are really getting to be a huge amount of people even in what was the wilderness.....Eric and Blkhemi I sure hope you all are taking some nice trips as I am, and I am also afraid you guys are dealing with the break dust as imo that is the only thing so far that is a pain, as I do the wheel cleaning weekly..Tony
  • ayyateayyate Member Posts: 53
    Interesting thoughts to ponder on a mountain drive. I am old enough to appreciate such observations. I don't remember 1905, however.

    On the subject of brake dust, there are a few steps to take. Probably none of them are without some compromise. There are arguments, pro and con, to be made about metallic-content pads. I have tried them successfully on a couple of Mercedes cars and did not notice appreciably greater disk wear. Additional disk wear is the usual argument against such pads. I did have much less dust.

    On my present A8, I have noticed far less dust in the year I have driven it than on earlier German cars. I have changed nothing, not pads or wheels. Perhaps Audi has devised some way to reduce the dust from pads. Pad composition? Wheel design? Who knows. I normally do not wash my own car but I will occasionally spray my wheels liberally with Simple Green and just hose them off. I find that, unless I have driven in rain, this does a fairly good job of cleaning them. If the car has been in rain, a soft brush after spraying with lots of Simple Green will usually take care of any lingering dirt. I live in California where it seldom rains and this is an easy way to keep my wheels clean. If I am dressed to go out, I don't even get my shoes wet. Just let them air dry and you are done.

    Good luck,
    WP
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