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Here is a picture of the rear end of a upper end car. Some of the greatest pictures of a high end exhaust system I have ever seen in my whole life.
Enjoy.
M6 Rear End
;-)
That was the first clue the discussion was off-topic.
To be quite honest, that rear looks all bangled up. I don't like it.
Looks like an old Firebird.
However, if it were forced on me, I just might acquiesce.
This is what the 6 should've looked like originally. Unfortunately I dont think the "de-ugly" package is worth the $100 grand or so that Fisker wants for it.
There are some serious whiskers on that thing. But the Dodge Swiss-flag grille is a creative touch.
;-)
But lets move beyond that. Can anyone present empirical data about education levels, income, retention rates, median age, % purchased vs. leased, red state/blue state (or urban vs. rural; IMHO the red state/blue state dichotemy is really urban vs. rural anyway) differences, political party preference, etc. for these owners/leasees of these cars? Maybe data from Polk registration figures, trade journals such as Automotive Weekly, etc?
I think that there are clear differences and I'd like to see some data.
Geesh! What a mess!
Even I as a BMW fanatic have to draw the line somewhere. Enough already!
I can't stop laughing every time I click on that photo!
Car buyers' median age by brand:
Division - Median age
Rolls-Royce 62.9
Lincoln 62.8
Buick 60.8
Mercedes 58.7
Chrysler 56.4
Mercury 55.1
Cadillac 53.4
Jaguar 49.8
Lexus 49.4
BMW 46.1
Ferrari 45.6
Hummer 45.6
Acura 45.3
GMC 44.4
Saab 44.4
Pontiac 43.4
Porsche 43.4
Dodge 42.9
Chevrolet 42.7
Honda 41.9
Toyota 41.9
Infiniti 41.6
Mitsubishi 41.3
Volvo 40.3
Ford 39.7
Land Rover 38.9
VW 38.7
Jeep 37.6
Nissan 35.1
Mazda 34.6
Suzuki 33.2
Isuzu 32.7
Subaru 31.7
Saturn 30.9
Hyundai 29.8
Kia 28.1
Primary drivers, personal use vehicles only; Source: CNW Marketing Research
Hpowders,
and I always thought you were the last remnant of support for Bangle design. I guess its official and all Bangle fans have become extinct .
RIP
Kia but no Audi.
The ultimate dis!
Man! Looks like Audi owners are going to have to join group psychotherapy to treat extreme inferiority complex brought on by acute invisibility.
Even I have a breaking point.
Brightness04,
The above has to be among the funniest statements I have ever read in this forum.
Based on global sales the invisible Audi company is more visible than Lexus.
Thanks for the comic relief!
Audi has the strongest line-up they've ever had with the new A3, re-styled A4, A6, & A8, and the new Q7 coming next year. I personally think they have the best looking vehicles of any high-line car company right now.
I think Audi's customers are more independent thinkers and are less worried about what people think of them, and don't buy a car just for a status symbol.
We'll leave that to the propellar and three pointed star crowd.
We'll leave that to the propellar and three pointed star crowd.
ouch
you dont know how little that hurts.
You also have to consider that Q45 sales figures are abismal. The 50 plus crowd isn't even considering this car compared to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. Infiniti moved only 63 Q 45's last month, and 1,077 for the entire year so far. Audi sells 5X as many of their 80k A8 compared to that, and that's still a relatively small number in this market.
The M35/45's are also doing very well for Infiniti as they've sold about 21,000 so far this year.
The did such a good job with the M35/45, and G35 sedans, you wonder what Infiniti has up their sleeve to compete in that 70k market segment. If they build upon the 35/45, a new Q flagship could bring Infiniti full circle.
That was the first clue the discussion was off-topic.
Q45 is the high end marque for Infiniti, which is itself the high end marque for Nissan. On the other hand, BMW is the mid-level marque for BMW AG, and 3 series is the entry-level product for the mid-level marque, doubly off-topic.
Thank God for the new Bugatti since that is one way for the wealthy to distinguish themselves from the rest of humanity.
Unless ofcourse an entrepreneur introduces a time-share Bugatti concept.
The following is from the year end edition of the Economist:
In Britain, Damon Hill, a former racing driver, has launched P1 International. A £2,500 ($4,300) joining fee, plus annual membership of £13,750, buys around 50-70 driving days a year in cars ranging from a Range Rover Sport to a Bentley or a Ferrari.
As a result, “the price of entry for much of what traditionally was available to the top 0.001% is now far lower”, says Mr Lawson, who notes the sorry implications for a would-be conspicuous consumer: “How do I know if the guy who drives past me in a Ferrari owns it or is just renting it for the weekend?”
Here's a quote from the year end Economist:
Yet rather than abandoning status anxiety, the way the rich seek to display status may simply be getting more complex. As inequality grows again in rich countries, some of the very rich worry about consumption that is so conspicuous to the masses that it provokes them to try to take their wealth away. Some car-industry experts blame weak sales of the latest luxury limousines on this fear.
But perhaps the true symbol of exalted status in the era of mass luxury is conspicuous non-consumption. This is the growing tendency of the very rich to dress scruffily and drive beaten-up cars.
Another year passes and we're still at it debating. While we all differ in our opinion, our fierce debates show how passionate each and everyone of us are about our cars! I hope everyone has a wonderful and safe New Year!!
Sam
http://www.forbes.com/2005/12/20/cx_dl_1221featslide.html?thisSpeed=17500
Happy New Year to all!
Unfortunately, most of the others ($452,750 for a Mercedes?) are gorging themselves on high-priced vehicles.
I do believe many of them could use a little God in their lives to bring them back to reality. Reminds me of the golden calf worshippers.
On the positive side, it must be nice to know that when you die, you can afford the most expensive box at the undertakers'.
Detroit is but 2 weeks away! Now this is my favorite time of year!
M
It is also likely that the car will share the same underpinnings as the new Audi R8 which itself is based on the Gallardo. This could mean that the Miura will be the first lambo to be built outside Italy, with Germany the likely choice, alongside the R8.
The above is a good indicator of what kind of humbleness MB needs in order to succeed with its turn-around!
link title
The funny thing is that in the sidebar to the article, he notes "The LS 430 has excellent acceleration and superior handling. From the driver's seat, the car is an absolute joy, especially when its electronic suspension is set on the "Sport" mode." But somehow that doesn't matter since his tush didn't like the rear seat and his 11-yr-old godson missed his family's minivan's DVD player.
The other brilliant observation was "Nearly everybody mistook the Lexus LS 430 for an S-Class Mercedes-Benz. That may be flattering to Mercedes-Benz, but it does little to establish an independent LS 430 identity." Of course, no where in the article did he mention that the next model has already been announced and shown (at least in pre-production form), and it looks nothing like an S-class.
One thing I noted is that he drove an Ultra Luxury package which had the "Euro-tuned Sport Suspension" - so merc1, other people don't seem to have a problem finding the sport setup that you repeatedly say doesn't exist.
In any case, everybody who rides in the back of my '05 LS loves it. So unless Lexus did something very weird with the '06 model, I really don't understand what this guy is talking about.
So according to Mr. Brown, we're all wrong here: the LS is in fact a great "driver's car" with superb handling; it's just a poor "passenger's car" filled with technology you can get for less in other (non-luxury) cars. :confuse:
You gotta read this to believe it (free website registration):
Wash Post LS review
First of all I didn't say that a LS430 with the Euro option didn't exist. What I said was that it is a hard to get, which is true, despite one clueless reporter's report. The fact remains that a LS430 with the Euro option is all but impossible for everday consumers to test drive.
Reading that confirms that car reviews from a newspaper (and other non-automotive sources) are nothing more than a jokes.
M
Below is a portion of a transcript from a CNN interview with Warren Brown dated March 16th, 2002.
The following interview has wisdom that CR worshippers tend to ignore:
BROWN: There is no such thing as an unbiased report. For example, you look at "Consumer Reports", it calls itself unbiased. And certainly to its readers, it is. But it does tend to lean very heavily in favor of Japanese cars and those kinds of models.
CALLAWAY: Right.
BROWN: Primarily because that's where its readers tend to lean. Then you look at something from say "Car and Driver" or "Road and Track" or "Motortrend," and you'll get a completely different picture. My favorite is the AAA car guide, primarily because it seems to come from a wider base of buyers, a wider base of experience, but there actually we have certain elements of bias.
The best thing to do, if you can, is to read as many of them as you possibly can, and also to check various Web sites to see what's there. One of my favorites is Edmunds.com. It tends to give a fairly dry, you know, presentation of what's available. There's also KBB.com and various and sundry others. So you just have to do your research and then go with your gut.
CNN
BTW, Brown can't be both an idiot (for his recent review) and a genius.
On this (HELM) board, there are probably more people who discount CR more than on other boards, simply because they may have the means to. In other words, maintenance costs and reliability in getting from point A to point B may not be as crucial.
I would guess that most people who bash CR are bashing their relative ratings (as bias can creep into things easier when objective measures are weighted subjectively) rather than their testing methods and surveys. Brown was probably referring to this bias (as CR does cater to their audience, and things like reliability and costs are more important to that population than those who read auto mags).
In their Luxury Sedans catergory, the Mercedes E and S, BMW 5, and the Audi A6 and A8, all rank above the Acura RL and Lexus GS. If CR was so blatantly biased towards Japanese cars, shouldnt the results be M, GS, LS, and RL all taking the top spots?
CR is biased like anyone else, their own editors all have specific things they are looking for in a car, which implies bias, regardless of whether advertising pays the bills at CR or not. The difference between CR and say C&D, is that one of the things CR looks for is reliability. Thats not the only thing they care about. If it was, Japanese cars would win every segment like some seem to think they do. The automags could care less about that, except perhaps in the long term tests, and then major problems are often glossed over as "teething pains".
This faulty analysis IMO makes their "current" reliability ratings useless.
Another flaw: When 2 cars are rated "average" and "below average" respectively, where's the cut-off point?
A car may be black-circled as "below average" for achieving 1 point less than the "average vehicle."
The ratings CR uses are simply too vague because they don't reveal the total number of points earned by each vehicle.
Some cars with different ratings may be only a point or 2 apart while 2 others may be many points apart.
I cannot respect the CR ratings until they come out and once and for all give comprehensive detailed ratings for each vehicles with point totals.
I e-mailed them about this but they responded with their usual "mumbo-jumbo."
CR seems to be an organization that has grown too big for its own good (much like the AARP), with little respect for the consumer they profess to serve.
This is not about Consumer Reports. I do not know if there is a current topic on Consumer Reports on our News & Views board (there have been many), but whether there is or there is not, that's where this debate belongs.
We are here to talk about, well, you know.
BTW, just got the LX470 an '03, and loving it. Now solidly Lexus in my car/truck purchases. Was talking to my dealer last week and he opined that the 2007 LS460 base would not add much to 2006 LS430 base price. That would be nice. And that the LS600h is projected at $90K-ish base, which would come pretty much loaded. That is beyond my price range, so I am taking a pass. My 110K miles '99 LS400 is long due for a replacement, and now that Santa (my wife) has gotten her LX, the road is clear for a 2007 LS for me. However, this time I will possibly expand my LS replacement search to include the A8 and the 750i (if the new redo gets here by next year). No MB in my future until they get their act together... Sorry.
Now back to the rocking chair.... Wishing everyone the very best in this new year.
The increase for 2005 is only 1% but this is good considering weak sales in the first half of the year.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/04/204795.html
750 isn’t on the left coast? They’ve been around for a while around here. A colleague of mine just got one.
Like I said, I will *consider* the Bimmer and the Audi in my next go-round. If these cars meet up, reliability inclusive, I might be tempted, just to break the Lexus lock in the family stable
;-)