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And as to RR... we'll have to see. I have been in a RR with a BMW 12-cyl engine, and found the car noisy and wheezy. I am not sure BMW engines are intended for *heavy* cars. They should have retuned ot far more. The old 6-liter 8-cyls with huge gobs of torque seem to work better in a humongous Rolls... but we'll have to give the alliance time. The potential is there, since Rolls -unlike Rover- can benefit from a company philisophy committed to over-engineering times at stuff. They can and should go bananas on RR.
The car to drive is the Arnage Red Label... an amazing machine.
Bill
Oh, and the Bentley is another thing altogether. I got to drive one for a weekend a few years back. Nothing matches the feeling, provided your DNA predisposes you to heavy machinery and you have an appreciation for fine artisan craftmanship. The interior makes anything we're discussing in here look and feel like a Soviet car pre-dating the end of the Cold War... the Jag I had at the time felt cheap when I was sitting back in it. Some cars just spoil you for a while after you sit in them...
bitkahuna,
F1 model or just the regular 6-speed? I can only imagine what a 360 is like, since I've only been able to see one parked and ride beside one in traffic.
M
Pat
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As for Bentley, can we not all agree that a Red Label is the best super, super luxury car in the world? When you have that much torque on tap, nothing can touch you. And I'm sure that Pablo is correct when he says that after sitting in that lap of luxury interior, you are spoiled for life. That is my ultimate machine~ A.R.
Acceleration, brakes, steering, handling - all breathtaking.
I have my name already on a list for the new Mid-Sized Bentley. I am no where near being able to afford the current large Bentley at over 210k. But the new MSB Bentley is targeted at about 150k, which suits my wallet much more.
The MSB will first appear as a coupe, and the front seems similar to the MB CL, though more elegant.
The three cars were Lexus LS430, MB S430 and the BMW 745i.
I have to say right off, the car looks much better in person than it does in photos. Though the trunklid still looks just a bit awkward, it definitely looks better in person.
I will try to recall all the details that I can.
The headlamps are bi-xenon and have the "halo" effect like the 2001 5-series. VERY cool.
The 745i bases at 71,650. Which is significantly more than the current 7-series. That includes the usual stuff, including an "active" type suspension. The car they had there was FULLY loaded. Had auto door closers, the trunk was auto open and close and was a sight to behold. I DEFINITELY would want that. It is just amazing to watch.
The best way I can describe the interior is that it is like sitting in a living room full of Italian furniture. With this interior, BMW has definitely taken a high-tech path to luxury. It definitely has a luxurious feel, but if you think of Italian furniture, sleek, VERY modern, you will know what I am talking about. I think BLACK will be the best color for this interior.
Also, the standard wood has a matte finish. I would definitely upgrade to the shiny stuff. The matte is ok, but doesn't look as rich as shiny wood.
The seats are fantastic! Think of sitting in a catchers mitt, all snug and cozy. That's exactly the way it felt. The seats are just awesome, and the controls for them, which are on the side of the center console are unique. There is a rotary control and you turn it either way after selecting the portion of the seat control that you want to change. Very unique, and very effective. Of course it had the heating and cooling seats.
ANOTHER COOL feature is the rear window shades. THEY ARE ELECTRIC!! There are controls on either rear door that control the rear quarter window shade of the rear door shade. They can also be controlled from the front seat. The center console is HUGE! VERY wide, but again, very elegant in a high-tech way. When you open up the two center "armrests", it is cavernous inside. A definite improvement over my 740's armrest storage, which is non-existent. :-)
The i-Drive is FANTASTIC! It is the most amazing thing I've ever tried. Also, the center hood, which I complained about in the past as looking stupid. Well, guess what, in person it looks REALLY good. It blends in surprisingly well, and doesn't look like an add-on, which is the way it looks in the pics to me.
The rear seat passengers have a drop down mirror, like the Mercedes, except that there is only 1 and it is in the center. The other feeling that strikes me about the interior, is it is very much like a cockpit, especially with the brushed chrome overhead console.
The rear seat legroom has NOT improved on this i model. I thought maybe it would be, but with the frontseat set comfortably for a six footer, the knee room is still about the same, maybe just a tiny bit more than the current 740i.
The rear seats were also VERY comfortable, but again, it is like sitting in really comfortable leather furniture. You sit IN to the seat, not on them. It would DEFINITELY be my choice for a long-distance drive.
This car so out-classes the Mercedes S-Class, it is unbelievable, and I was a Mercedes faithful for years.
Yes, the i-Drive was intuitive, to me. If anyone is techno-phobic, they might have a problem with the idea, but the execution is brilliant. Of course I wasn't able to use it while driving so can't say for sure if it will be a distraction, but the display is somewhat in your line of sight and as I've said before, once you commit to memory which way to push the "button" it will be simple to use.
To bitkahuna. Give me break guy. I am just trying to give some information on my experience with the car. Yes, I have posted the EXACT same post to several message boards. Did you think I was going to retype the message multiple times. It doesn't bother me that you are suspicious. I had a great experience seeing the car, and just wanted to share it. Take it or leave it.
As far as pricing, I was only giving what the "research company" showed as a base price comparing the pricing to the S430 and LS430. It is highly possible that the price will change. Again, I was just posting what I saw.
Thanks for posting the info... sounds like a great car, although expen$ive. Was the $71K just a BASE price? BMW (and Mercedes) usually have extensive options for things that should be included (like metallic paint!).
Pure Bolony
ADIOS
arcoates,
I would agree that the Arnage Red Label is an awesome car, but I can't quite say its the best. But given the proper finances, it would be in the same garage with all the German iron.
Since there seems to be some doubt on is4b2rd's review of the 745i, I'll not comment on it. I will say though I too expect it to be the best in the world with Mercedes, Audi (new A8) and Lexus to start answering the challenge for 2003 and 2004.
M
I was simply sharing my interest with folks I thought were a bunch of car guys. I don't need to logon and read these comments and will not in the future. I am outta here, enjoy.
Some good pics down there. The pic of the back of the car http://www.sueddeutsche.de/imperia/md/images/banner/auto/neuheiten/bmw/1.jpg definitely looks a bit unflattering and unfinished. It'd be much smoother if they somehow continued the rear-light-set into the trunk lid somehow, or created more continuity there...
I find it amusing the one gentleman saying a poster's observations were "bolony." I'm sure anybody who can afford a 7-Series BMW is literate enough to spell "baloney" or "bologna."
The 507 (correct me if I got the nubmers wrong, it's been awhile) was one of the most beautiful cars to come out of the late 50s; the late-60s CSi was also a high-water mark in European sedans; and the 633/635 series of the late 70s and early 80s was sublime. The 850 of the early 90s was the last BMW I truly lusted after, and I keep waiting for them to repeat it. All it needed was a drivetrain to match the looks.
Sorry -- you and I part ways on this one. BMWs have the best continuity of passionate design of any automaker save Ferrari and perhaps Alfa.
All in all, we all know there are no absolutes when it comes to taste, that is for sure, and I am not making a generic claim on this. I, humbly and personally, just have the impression that, when talking about all time classics in automotive design history, Ferrari, Bugatti, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Bentley and Rolls pop up to mind, and BMW does not. When I look at http://www.bmw.com/bmwe/pulse/heritage/klassiker/index.html , I truly don't see something that, if I were a million dollar car collector, would truly make me go crazy. The 3/15 is only remarkable for its simplicity. The 328 steals French design cues from the time. The 502 is entirely unremarkable. The Isetta goes back to very basic technology. The 507 liberally steals Italian design cues (Ferrari, Maserati) from the time. The 1500 is what made BMW a great brand: remarkable engineering savvy in a sporty, cost-efficient package, with the emphasis certainly not being on design, again. And the M1, let's admit it, is a rather forgettable supercar. The 8-series is a wonderfully competent GT, but again, I think the design is not ageing all that well.
I do overstate the point for the sake of the argument, but I think you can sense where I come from: no doubt BMW is a great car brand. But what makes them great is not necessarily design - different brands are made great by different strengths: Ferrari is performance and design, Mercedes competence and elegance, Rolls luxurious oppulence... and BMW is about competent technology. They've been upwardly mobile throughout their history, but I don't think they've yet build a super-car that made the world stand still just by standing there and being looked at. You got to sit behind the wheel of a BMW to appreciate their core competence.
Robert
is4b2rd- are you saying you actually drove the 754i as well?~ A.R.
I disagree with you about several points, however. The 507 is considered by every automotive historian I've ever read as being a seminal car, and I fail to see which Ferrari or Maserati it "stole" from.
Design cues tend to come in bunches, as the stylists learn from each other -- and the Italian designers are no exception. Ferrari has had several major designers, although Pinifarina has been their perennial favorite, and they can take no credit for something they did not create themselves.
As for unique contributions to automotive styling, the BMW c-pillar treatment is recognized world-wide as beautiful and unique, and it is a feature of the marque that continues to this day.
They have also had a wonderful feel for proportion and sportiness that defines the look of all their cars, from the 50s to the current models. Their only missteps, in my opinion, have been the late efforts of their American styling director -- the man responsible for the awkward Z3, and the M3 coupe that brings to mind the ungainly Griffith of the mid to late 60s.
Alfa Romeo probably has the best styling history of ANY marque -- and the BMW 502 certainly echoes certain features of their styling tradition. But they are still beautiful in their own right, and I will take nothing from them because they had the good taste to learn from something truly spectacular.
On BMW, I guess we'll have to disagree on the styling. I see your point. And I do like BMW, and would always check their line-up when getting ready to buy a car (I have owned 2 3-series in the past), but truly can not recall an instance when their styling truly struck me esthetically the way Alfa's or Ferrari's (not that the latter don't have their mis-steps) does. I like them for the great dynamic experience, technology implementation, and yes, competent, albeit not outstanding, design. Their motorcycles reflect the soul of the brand quite a bit, I find - and I love them. The R motorcycles -and I do own one, and love it- are unique: great technology, unique driving experience, sportiness combined with great comfort... and while the design is nice, it is not groundbreaking or goes for passionate esthetics the way an Italian brand would. It is about low-key balance, somehow, no risks and nothing that could be taken to be over-the-top. And when they take risks -like the Z3 you mention-they more often than not screw up, because they seemingly venture out of their comfort zone. I am not at all saying BMWs are ugly, really! I am just saying that I'd associate other things as top BMW core values rather than design by itself.
I'd say less talking and more driving, nuff already.
M
Here is an intro article to the new 7. Canadian of course.
http://www.globeandmail.com/globemegawheels/20010712/2002.html
A.R.
arcoates,
I don't think Mercedes will ever build them that way again. The W140 was and still is a high-point of Mercedes over-the-top, all-out way of building a car.
M
My Jaguar XJR, despite Jag's -still justfied- reputation for fantastic interiors, has a very few very cheap parts in there, too.
And hey, if you look for the cost cutters, you'll see them in every car we discuss here.
Scott