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Yes and Yes. On MBworld people are easily getting 10K off the remaining 2006 S-Classes. Yes the final production years should be the best. The build quality was improved for the 2003 facelift, so I think you're really asking about reliability. Naturally the final year should be the best.
M
I do agree with SV that the interior is a bit of a disappointment on the S but I like it better than the old S-class interior.
SV - I think the old car is one heck of a value right now but it's really going to be blown away by the new car and the effort MB seemsto have put forward with it and the LS will also blow it away. That's a tough call.
So, you've still got some minor complaints about the wheel arches? I bet they'll grow on you over time. I've already been seeing a number of the new S-Class cars showing up in the community, and I still do think it's a very beautiful car as you so kindly remembered. Seeing it in person more and more, I have to say that I've been getting bugged ever so slightly by the trunk at certain angles. I don't know exactly what it is and I keep thinking that it will go away, but it doesn't go away. It sounds a little odd, I know, but I'll need to spend some serious time staring at the car, I guess, to figure it out. When I do figure it out, I'll let you know. In spite of that "quirk", overall, I have serious respect for the styling. I've been way too busy lately and I also still need to get in and give it a whirl.
I truly think that the new S-Class has a re-kindled level of "presence" that I haven't seen in a Mercedes sedan in quite some time. It's a welcome back feeling.
TagMan
I'll give you my thoughts on the guys tomorrow after they go on. But at this point I think the first guy eliminated - Patrick Hall - was more talented than half of the guys left. The Harry Potter look alike from Long Island should have been gone last week.
Maybe you need to buy a Lexus first and then they'll come after you aggressively. Seriously - I just got it today - give it a few days.
Block Island Guy - They likely built the units shipped over a longer than normal period of time given it's the initial shipment.
I'm really shocked in that your take on the show tonight mirrors mine exactly, unlike our take on cars...lol!!!
Oh, for Simon to say he likes Kelly Pickler better than last year's winner was an astounding remark! Kelly will make it the next 2-3 weeks and possibly to the end based on that statement from him alone, unless she does give a really bad performance between now and then. I don't see that happening though.
I was so glad when Brenna got voted off last week. Her attitude was terrible. Her and Bobby, the guy that did the Barry Manilow number a few weeks back had no place in Hollywood period!
M
M
I used to watch the first couple of seasons of AI, but Simon is accurate, but not funny or witty, just cold and snotty. Randy and Paula bring little value with their opinions. Simon is the star of the show, and he's not made for TV. Maybe radio?
Those are some fly names, doh (Ayla, Mandisa)! Very original, without being pretentious and psychotic.
DrFill
The old S Class has a nicer design. I, for one, could do without all the complicated interface systems that are coming out in these cars. I normally try to buy cars to keep them, as I've done with my 1992 LS400. I really haven't been able to find a car that really tickles my fancy. I'm put off by the new designs from all of these High End companies. They concentrate more on fancy and IMHO pointless gadgets and focus less on design and style.
The new S Class has a nice presence, but the old one is one of the best looking designs in a long time. This car has a nice sleek upscale presence to it. I'm not looking for a dragster, I think the 250 HP in my 92 LS is more than enough. I'm not looking for Night Vision either..
My hope is that the last run of these S Classes will resemble the quality Mercedes is legendary for. As it is, the 2006 model has enough gimmicks to make me content after having a LS430.
Don't get me wrong, the LS430 and upcoming 460 are great cars, but I feel something is missing. Their designs lack a certain flair. I've been primarily a Lexus buyer for the value and reliability side of things. The 92 LS has some of that flair I've been talking about. The car is nearly 20 years old in design, but does not look "Old" at all.
I think the outgoing S Class will hold up well in that regard, much like the W126 cars do. I nixed buying a S430 last year because of the 12K premium they wanted, but now it looks like I could possibly get one for a more reasonable sum...We'll see what happens. My wife will kill me for even mentioning trading my LS in. It's a 2005 with only 7,000 miles..
Sam
Having said that what about a new XJ8? Great design, flawless exeucution, great quality (e.g., JD Powers awards), no electronic overkill, and decent pricing. Sure, it doesn't have the same "presence" as an S Class. So what? Your constituents (employees/patients/clients/customers/vendors)won't think you are out of touch with them.
Our deal was
'06 s350
heating
trunk
cd
lojack
3 year extended warranty
tax
title
destination
$64105 otd (always talk #s in otd)
You should get similar savings from your local dealer.
BTW what did you think of the Lexus LF-A sports car? I don't remember seeing any comments on it from you.
MSRP: $171k
Price OTD: $132k, with the extended warranty.
And seems that M-B's resale values are still rock solid. He traded his beloved(he loved this car more than he did his wife) '99 S600(box-body) and got $29k for it, which it was in impecable condition. There are some dealers around here advertising the last of the '06 S350/430/500's for $10-$15k off of invoice.
I think the LF-A sports car has the right proportions and stance, but the details needs to changed IMO.
M
DrFill
Out-The-Door certainly gets to the bottom line for comparisons when purchasing within the same state, and when trying to make a good purchase deal, in general, which I assume you are referring to. When comparing deals across larger geographic areas that cross state lines, however, the price of the vehicle itself needs to ALSO be mentioned.
There are MASSIVE differences in taxes and license/registration expenses from state to state. And it's noteworthy and important to expose what a dealer sells the VEHICLE itself for, before the different state governments add their nasty share.
The reason I mention this is because when discussing vehicle prices on an international forum such as this, unless the price of the vehicle itself is definitively represented, it can be extremely difficult for readers from varying locations to determine from an OTD figure what the vehicle price itself actually is, given those differences in the supplemental gov't fees.
TagMan
And to that, not all luxury cars, even some produced in low numbers, have traditionally good resale values. A Jaguar XJR/XKR is not going to a resale for nowhere near what a M-B S/SL or a BMW 6/7 would have. And Merc produces and sells MORE of each of the aforementioned cars.
I need your help on this potential Mercedes deal I am making. Basically there is this amazing looking 2004 (Registered 7/2004) S430 4 Matic with 8400 miles on it. It has a clean history and zero paint defects. The dealer wants $59,000 asking. This car is also Starmarked for one year. All scheduled maintenance is included since it is MY 2004.
They are offering me only $43K for my 2005 LS430 with 7,100 miles on it. The Kelley trade in is $49K. I think they should be offering me at least 1-2K more on trade and some discount on the new car.
To be fair, I saw a similar S430 with 22K miles (at another dealer) for $57K. So in comparison this is a better value. What sort of deal do you think I should be getting?
The car is amazing. Merc, I finally understand your enthusiasm for Mercedes. This outgoing S is easy on the eyes and has a great interior to boot. After all these years I finally summoned up the nerve to drive one outside of the parking lot.
Much to my surprise, it drove similar to my Lexus but I didn't have any of the Airmatic buttons pressed. Will I notice any difference with it turned on? Also I didn't drive it past 40 MPH. The Bose stereo was nice, but I missed the fact that it doesn't have a touchscreen.
I'm also wondering about reliability. The car has a good history, the previous owner traded it on a new S550. My son has offered to pick up the tab for most of it, as a birthday gift to me. I do feel bad accepting that offer since he just started work as a Management consultant. I feel like he should be buying himself a nice car instead!
Looking forward to your comments,
Sam
The car is amazing. Merc, I finally understand your enthusiasm for Mercedes.
Well, you always said you liked the S. Calm down, there will be PLENTY of bargains now that the new model is here, and you'll do a helluva lot better if you walk in without a car to trade.
That's a great son you have there. And kudos to the parents who raised him.
My uncle is a psychiatrist and the guy that pays $26.5K for a one year old car with 8K miles instead of $500 more for a new one (with a full warranty) with 0 miles will need to see him ASAP.
It's been a long time since fat Tony went running through the snow-covered woods in his Ballys.
;-)
for a brand new one. MB is offering really great discounts on the outgoing S models. you should be able to get at least 10k off of a brand new car. 0 miles newer model year and a longer warranty may justify any added costs. good luck.
The price of that used S430/4Matic is very close to what's being offered on new '06 models, a few grand give or take. As to reliability, it greatly improved through and after the '03 m/y. These models saw the least performance and electrical problems.
P.S.- Is your son adoptable, as I'd quickly swap with you.
P.S.- If the Honda is certified, then it will carry a better warranty than new, 6yr/100k mile.
Most manufacturer dealerships will add extended warranties like the 7 year 100k on new cars so there's often no reason to buy used over new for warranty reasons (with all else being equal).
Please don't let your son buy you a car. Have him save for his own car and retirement first.
Also keep both deals separate in your mind. The purchase should be made as a separate deal from the sale your LS. Your LS should also last much longer and have fewer problems than your S430. Have you driven the S500? In socal, the price difference is so small and the acceleration difference so great that I would move up to the 500 if I were you.
Regarding the purchase, check out carsdirect, autotrader, and other web sites to see if you are clearly getting a good deal.
Thousands of fools if that is the case. Sorry I don't buy it for a second and an advertised price is hardly a closed deal price. People don't overpay 20% on a car like that and people who are buying that type of car are careful with their money.
SV - that is one terrible deal. You are overpaying on one car and you are being underpaid on your trade. I've seen $76K S430's advertised at $59,900 brand new in the last two months. If you want one that badly pick it up and sell your car privately for $50-51K. I think you're being impulsive and when people are impulsive they make bad deals.
BTW - if Johnny Sack is in the pen the whole show I'm going to miss him. He plays that role letter perfect.
Thanks for your comments. I came to the same conclusion regarding the deal. I hate selling my own cars, it's such a hassle. However, there is another Mercedes dealer here who is part of the same chain that owns the Lexus dealer I bought mine from.
I think it makes more sense to buy a new '06 S430 and trade mine in. Normally this chain of dealers will give you full Kelley trade in, which is around 50K in my case. I'll see what it all comes to. I like the car, but like everyone on this board, I'm going to be smart about it.
Having said all of that, it's a nice car. The reason I want one is the 4-Matic feature and of course the styling. Owning a Mercedes has been a lifetime ambition, but I've never had the nerve to buy one. It is alot of money especially when compared to the LS430..But it is a nice car, that's for sure. It's one of those things that isn't easily explained. If we were all "rational" people we'd all be driving Toyota Camrys.
My son wanted to buy me the car as a birthday present. I had no idea he's been saving every penny for the last few months to do it. That would explain why he hasn't bought himself an older XJ8 yet. Like me, my son is a car guy. (Much to his mother's annoyance!)
I wasn't even thinking of buying a new car. He just told me yesterday about his plans. I don't want him spending all of his money on this car (He's only 23) so I'll likely pitch most of it in, that is if he'll let me!
Thanks for your comments,
Sam
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Your son may be rolling in the dough right now but times change. Tell him to save his money that you already have a great car.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
P.S.- The average used car transaction is usually much higher than necessary, so yes, people pay 20% over what they should, in some cases more.
Clearly, if you are an "early adopter" buying say a new 2007 S Class will give you the benefit of driving the "new" body style for 6 or so years. As a result the initial depreciation should be less than normal because you will have the new body style. Additionally, and no less important, the psychological deprecation should build more leisurely. In other words, because you are driving the current body style you will tire of it more slowly. (My mother never stopped telling us that her 1941 Plymouth was the only "new" car available for 10 years.)
On the other hand if you buy a new '06 S Class you'll get a quick 10K off the MSRP but probably will be saddled with higher than normal depreciation because it is an "old" body style. I suspect that just like year-end automotive sales, that these additional discounts don't overcome the higher depreciation.
Finally, lets not forget that the early adopters bear some risk of initial bugs that will need to be worked out. The '07 buyer is a beta tester.
So, using the S Class as an example, is the smartest move to buy a heavily discounted '06, a new style '07, or next year a debugged '08?
(For those of you who may think that this analysis is beneath them, let me encourage you to think in terms of pre-tax dollars and opportunity costs. Saving 10K is akin to a 14k raise on your W2 and if invested in say an emerging market bond fund would have doubled in 12 months.)
Mercedes has pushed the envelope even further by developing new-edge technology, which is always the case when the biggest car to wear the 3-pointed star is redesigned. But as cars advance, they get more reliable. It used to be that Honda/Toyota buyers bought those cars on the sole reason for legendary reliability records. Now you have even Hyundai taking accolades for workmanship and top-notch quality and reliability. This is a sign of our time.
Is it worth it to buy a car in the first m/y? It lies solely with the expression of the potential buyer. DCX upgraded the factories that make German-built Mercedes, so I'd imagine that it would improve the Mercedes once proven track record for good(if not great) reliability. Most buyers of these high-end cars buy them on mostly impulse, not need. So the new '07 S is definetely expressive enough to further the person impulse.
How about the middle? I think the best time to buy is on the mid-cycle update. That way you get the benefit of some new stuff, tweaked styling, maybe some extra power, etc. but its not a brand new model that could have significant problems.
Buying in the middle will also give you the benefit of getting more engine choices, interior options, and model choices (hybrids). While some HELMS like Lexus and Mercedes discount heavily at the end of the model run, lower volume HELMS like Audi, Porsche, and Bentley generally will not.
There's a good argument to buy the at the end of the model run in cases where you like the old more than the new (ie the incoming model has ugly fender flares and bad ergonomics. ) In 1998, the outgoing air-cooled 911 was snapped up by Porsche-lovers who lampooned the new water-cooled and watered-down model. Of course the tear-drop headlines brought the traditionalists to tears.
I agree that OTD means out the door. I don't pay my taxes and licensing fees at the dealership. They are paid later at the licensing bureau.
To be meaningful the OTD price MUST be in relation to the msrp. That way you can tell just how much the car has been discounted. Adding in taxes just confuses the issue. If you are going to include TTL you might as well include insurance costs, personal property tax, and maybe even that first tank of gasoline.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Isn't it amazing how things can change? The current water cooled 911, known internally as the 997, is red hot and its predescessor, the 996, that replaced the air cooled version, has retained a lot of its MSRP. No one has ever looked back on the air cooled units. Fully 50% of Porsche sales are now Cayennes.
Speaking of retaining MSRP, I haven't done a lot of research, but my impression is that the 911 has the best resale of any HELM. Moreover, the transaction prices are close to list. Who says that Porsche couldn't sell a HELM sedan to aging boomers?
Sorry, rayng, I can't let you get away with this one.
Here's why . . .
I can guarantee you, it’s in nobody’s best interest (except the car salesman’s) to do backwards mathematics to figure out what the VEHICLE's price actually is. Like I said, the OTD price is a good dealer-to-dealer final comparison when purchasing a vehicle, but unless you know the CAR'S price, you are missing the meal's main course.
Here's the example:
I live in California. Like you, I'm savvy enough to know a good deal, but I'm not going to learn every state's different sales tax and license and registration fees. Even within different counties of a state there are different tax rates.
So, if I tell you that a car is 75,000 OTD in California, and it is also 75,000 OTD in Oregon, Nevada, or Illinois, for example, the price of the VEHICLE itself would be dramatically different!
When you only quote OTD, you cannot determine the actual car's price without first removing the tax and license and registration fees! You may not think so, but that IS important if you want to compare the ACTUAL VEHICLE's final discounted selling price . . . particularly in different regions of the country!
Do you know all the tax rates in all 50 states, and all the tax rates in all the counties in each of those 50 states, and all the license and registration fees in all 50 states?
So, when the taxes and license and registration fees can vary so much from area to area, it just doesn’t make sense to keep the price of the vehicle itself HIDDEN. I, for one, like to know the price of the VEHICLE that different people are paying around the country when we discuss it.
I appreciated your post and the information you offered, but I hope you are willing to see my point of view on this. OTD is fine, yes, but it helps to disclose the VEHICLE price also. It matters! At least IMHO it does, for the reasons I have offered.
TagMan
This is exactly what I was going to say, especially with a Mercedes, but I think it applies with any luxury brand who sticks to a 5-7 year production run. Oh how I wish a 2003 S500 Sport or 2003 CL500 Sport were withing my grasp!!
M