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Likewise. This is Manning's career moment. I'd like to see him get it... add a great chapter to his life.
TagMan
Likewise, I have nothing against the Colts, but it's time for the Bears to be the team they used to be back in the day. It'll be a good match.
How right you are my friend.
BTW: the XKR has a build date of 2/20.
I watched that TopGear video of the XKR again yesterday, and it still continues to send chills up and down my spine. Truly fantasic car that makes awesome driving easy, and it's got the looks to kill.
I forgot the color scheme you ordered....?
TagMan
They buy an LS. Why?
Because most Americans think like you, and that is, the SC is a great sports car for spirited driving.
Nothing wrong with that "opinion". You share it with a lot of people. Just no one else on this thread. [cough, who know better. cough cough.]
It's not an Evo, but it's not a Buick either.
Audi's problem is Americans go to Lexus first, because of strong word-of-mouth, and Lexus people have enough product and ability to send to OTD in a vehicle.
Audi had a chance to build a 1st-tier image, back when Lexus was in it's infancy, and they dropped the ball. That's the truth.
Lexus isn't #1, for years, because of some phony perception. It's ignorant to think they could.
They have earned whatever they've received.
DrFill
For the longest time, the Europeans and domestic makes alike thought they could squeeze by with product that was not on par with premium pricing they commanded.
Toyota slipped through the back door of the concert in '89 hasn't looked back since.
BUT, as you full well know, sales aren't the whole story. Chevrolet is the best selling brand in the United States. Does this make them the best brand across the board? Certainly not, but they're working on it.
All this is to say that yes, the LS is still very much a primo luxury ride. the '01-'06 LS proved that it still had the original recipe from '89: comfort, great fit/finish, and much luxury that undercuts the competition by thousands.
But I remain skeptical about this newest LS, particularly the value part of it. Never before have there been LS' playing in the $85-$100k ball park(dead smack in the middle of S-Class pricing), and with the competition now bettering the LS in most areas, it will be a tougher sale. And now with the threat of the hybrid V. diesel debate crossing over into the HELC class(next-gen Audi A8 V-12TDI, 7-Series and S-Class ultra-clean V8 TD's), Lexus should be hoping that those batteries hold up long enough to withstand the JDP and CR reports of quality, which I'm sure they will seeing how this will be the much hyped gen-3 HSD.
See, we can agree.
I ordered the 20" "Fanne" wheels with Brembo brake upgrade.
My neighbor with the E-type is awaiting the XKR-R with Jag's first array into AMG territory with 500+ horses but still under that magical $120k threshold.
I thought to wait too, but that's why I have an upped 760-hp Twin Turbo Z06. I luv crushing the hopes and dreams of the rich snobs around here that drive F430's, Porsche Turbos, and one Lambo Gallardo that think they can overtake my "sleeper" Z06.
Merc I saw the clk yesterday, and it looke splendid with the top down...Tony
He may be waiting quite awhile. I would love to see them do the double R, but they've never actually confirmed that the car has the green light. If PAG dumps Aston, that would certainly make it easier. The XKR already can keep up with the V8 Vantage. They can't have the XKR-R stomping all over it for the same money.
The one good value in the HELC segment right now is a CPO Jaguar XJR. An '04 is maybe $45K at the most. You can get them on eBay for $32K. Thats C-class pricing.
Absolutely. I've posted in the past that the used '04 and '05 XJ's represent an amazing value, particularly the XJR's and the Vanden Plas models.
Gosh, I agree with you again! :surprise:
TagMan
I ordered the 20" "Fanne" wheels with Brembo brake upgrade.
Sounds like a badass, gorgeouls ans sleek.
Your "sleeper" Z06 is a monster alright. The Z06 is even quite a car in it's natural configuration.
TagMan
And I strongly disagree about the TL interior (sorry, quick OT). I find qualtiy materials, well laid out and with style. I will agree, however, that the "plood" is a crime. Hence I have the faux carbon fiber...
I'm rootin' for the Colts. To be the best, you have to beat the best. And the Colts beat (sob, sob, sob. The Pats? Blowing an 18 point lead??? No, really...) the best, The Patriots.
Wait'll next year. Go Sox!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The TL is the best interior in Acura history. Unfortunately, thats saying very, very little. With Acura now fully committed to their iDrive knock-off, I don't see any good interiors coming from them any time soon. *Maybe* the NSX.
If you drive the New LS, it is worthy of great pride.
DrFill
How true that is. But true to my nature, too much is never enuff.
LS--3005
A8--303
Say what you want about sales but Audi would love to have those 3000 sales instead of 300. Looks like quite a few people actually test drove the LS and liked it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
That performance will inspire many an aspiring artist in the next generation; the next James Brown! Performing in a driving "Purple Rain" no less! He fairly reeks of Star Quality! A++!! Outstanding!! :shades:
2. Marlie Matlin was kinda hot! Makes Katie Kouric look like the Wicked Witch of the West!
Yo, Katie! Who isn't doin' ya hair? :P
3. Great commercial by GM "Robot"!
DrFill
DrFill
Joels rendition of the star spangled banner was a true artist rendition. No drama, no theatrics. Just an artist, and his axe.
Prince is not to be disrespected however, a phenomenal guitar player, and over the top entertainer.
Think about this. If Billy Joel "performed" the star spangled banner like Prince performed his songs, wouldn't there be something cheap, and corny about that?
But that's just me. Not a fan of the "American idoling of America" Makes for a plethora of divas, and very little art being made.
That's all I'm sayin'.
DrFill
And he just totally aced the Super Bowl!
In the Purple Rain!
DrFill
Maybe what I should have said was, a phenomenal musician, but I stand by my statement.
Anyway, A5 debuts at Geneva. Will it qualify for HELC status?
IMO the upsides are.
1. You are driving a car that you will maybe see one time, someone else driving it = exsclusivity.
2. No car that big should handle like that. I'm pretty sure nothing else does. The AMG Benzes may be faster in a strait line, and the M5 is a lot smaller. Maserati QP? Maybe.
Downsides.
1. It's a lot to spend on basically a four door exotic. But if ya got it, more power to ya.
2. There are better performing 4 door sedans, at a less expensive price. S6, M5, E63AMG.
Blkhemi is really the guy to answer this. And more importantly, it's from experience.
A total stealth machine that only those in the know will drool over period.
If you drive the New LS, it is worthy of great pride.
DrFill
He's owned three LSs and you've owned none, yet you still insist on giving him Lexus lessons after he went to the A8. Incredible.
You misinterpreted my post. I'm sure he would like the New LS, and maybe the timing was wrong. That was my meaning.
DrFill
Doc - Prince surprised the He-- out of of me! Thank goodness, too. We don't need another Janet J, that's for sure. BTW, you've gotta admit the game was a good one and the way those Colts took it, was pretty darn classy, I'll say. Congratulations to the Colts organization.
Doc, again - Here's my SuperBowl present to you Doc...
That LS is a nicely built sedan with terrific workmanship and tremendous comfort and a sound system I'd have killed for in my college days. It may not look or drive or brake the way I like a car to look or drive or brake, but it's one hell of a cruiser, and I want you to know that it does deserve respect, and it has mine.
And since when is it a crime to build a car that is dependable as all heck?
Houdini- The number one selling vehicle in U.S. is Ford F150... again and again and again. It must be the highest standard by which everything else is judged, eh?
Blkhemi - I'm suprised you still have your driver's license, my friend... sitting on all that freakin' horsepower... I'd have been in jail by now. You must have tons of self-control... or you've found some secret spots to nail it once in a while.
Lexusguy - Have you taken that XK of yours out for a wild ride yet? If so, it's time to tell about it.
TagMan
I think sales are indeed the whole story. You just need to take the market delay into account. Chevrolet is the best selling brand because GM did something right in the past. But GM is selling fewer and fewer Chevy every year. In other words, sales do converge to true quality.
As in the case for Lexus and Audi, we know the former is the best selling luxury brand in the US and still gaining ground. And the latter is a negligible brand that Lexus won't consider as a competitor. Only BMW and MB are worthy competitors.
M
Yes, truly. Whenever I've gone to a Lexus dealership I've had the same experience. What gets me is that they act like they're doing you a favor by showing their cars! Nothing could be more laughable, this from the biggest "me too" brand going.
It DISCONNECTS the driver from the road. Is that better? The S-Class CONNECTS the driver to the road. Now, THAT's better, IMO.
One thing they'll never admit is very clear in the tests of both the S and LS so far. The S-Class manages to pull off the same level (or better) of ride comfort while managing to outhandle the LS at the same time. This is why the LS doesn't stack up to the S in comparo tests so far. Germans are masters at suspension tunning and it still escapes the Japanese as a whole. Same thing at the lower level, BMW deftly manages to provide both ride and handling while others provide too much of one and not enough of the other, depending on the competitor in question. Infiniti is the only one getting close.
M
Yes it is a looker, but I still haven't seen one on the road yet to give it the real styling test yet. The interior is the best Mercedes has done in quite some time.
M
Must be nice. My temp readout told me -5 earlier tonight! There will be no top down driving here for a long, long time.
M
L'Équipe, France's biggest automotive authority compared the top luxury cars against each other. This is similar to the Car and Driver review a few months ago. Here are the results:
1st Place: Mercedes S500 388/420 points
2nd Place: Audi A8 4.2 Quattro 369/420 points
3rd Place: Jaguar XJ8 363/420 points
4th Place: BMW 750i 338/420 points
5th Place: Lexus LS460 299/420 points
Article
The notes on each car are pretty much in line with what U.S. magazines have found.
M
After careful study it really does appear to be that in pics at least:
A good shot of the interior details that drive DM crazy:
Oh wait, I forgot about the Aston-Martin DB9. It still holds that title I think, if only by a lugnut.
M
Ain't nobody sayin' the LS is all superior and stuff. Only every bit as good, and better-lookin', cost less, and no BMW interior, that's all.
Running to France to trash the LS, eh? Yet another reason I still call 'em "Freedom Fries"! Since when are the French automotive authorities?
Can't wait to hear what the scuttlebutt is in Fiji's "Car & Cannibals" for March? :confuse:
MotorWeek called the LS "The New Luxury Leader", and tested it at 5.8 0-60. Over 100MPH in the quarter. This backs up MT test numbers (5.6), and Edmunds.com (5.9). They also were "surprised" by the cars handling! Uh oh!
Much to their discredit.
Let the spin begin. :surprise:
DrFill
DrFill
M
Yet it has been proven to be anything but "just as good" in all testing so far.
Running to France to trash the LS, eh? Yet another reason I still call 'em "Freedom Fries"! Since when are the French automotive authorities?
Nah...just have to turn to your used to be gospel source, Car and Driver.
MotorWeek called the LS "The New Luxury Leader", and tested it at 5.8 0-60. Over 100MPH in the quarter. This backs up MT test numbers (5.6), and Edmunds.com (5.9). They also were "surprised" by the cars handling! Uh oh!
Motorweek loves everything they test, hardly proves anything. None of those 0-60 times match the numbers given by Lexus. You're giving SWB test numbers, not LS460L numbers. Both MT and Motorweek tested SWB cars, not the L model, still not up to the S550 doc. The S550 was faster still in MT testing.
M
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Now I know why they have those loud garish looking vents--its so you won't notice that grafted on looking whatever above them that houses the nav system. Must be a big hit in France.
No wonder that the LS is outselling the S by two to one.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Well you didn't actually say that, it was the implication that the only MB owner here that post regularly doesn't own a HEL MB model.
For what it is worth, I have owned two Mercedes in the past. They were nothing special but both fairly good cars. One diesel one gas. It is just that, IMO, Lexus has surpassed them in the last few years and taken the HELC crown away from them.
IYO, market says otherwise. Mercedes name is still higher than Lexus, and once you look beyond the LS, Lexus isn't even close.
Just look at the sales data and tell me what reasonable person would not agree. The LS and the S compete in the same category and the LS beats the S in sales in the U.S.every year. The reason for this is that the LS is the better car. It is faster, built better, more reliable, holds it value better and is sold through the best, most courteous dealerships in the country.
Why is it that the sales data is the final and absolute word in this? The problem with this sales data stance is that is that no one here has ever, ever disputed WHY a Mercedes cost more than a Lexus, only that it does and that cost plays a factor in the sales of the LS. Only half of the "sales data" story is being told here. That is why this thing about sales gets no respect from the Euro crowd, it doesn't take into account all the factors at play here. It should be common sense IMO that if a car starts out 20K+ less than a competing car that the cheaper car would sell better.
Oh yes, the LS is about $20,000. per copy less expensive than the S. Not because it is less car but simply because Lexus has a tremendous advantage in labor and other manufacturing costs. Final CHECKMATE.
No one is saying that Toyota doesn't have the edge in production costs, but you still don't mention that this 20K when presented to joe buyer is a major advantage when it comes time for Lexus to write up their sales press releases. Now when you put this 20K in the same sentence about their sales, listing it is a factor in the LS' better sales you'll actually be telling the truth about the matter. You can't say it is 20K less in one sentence and then turn around and say that the only advantage of that is because Toyota has a superior production system, that 20K means something in the marketplace too (i.e. sales).
M