Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
In the 5-series threads a lot of this got discussed last year and many were POed, livid. Now that there are a lot of new 5-series owners the moaning has died down. But the schism continues. Some previously loyal BMW owners want no part of these new cars and I think it will be this way for several years if not forever.
The fender flares may be a little excessive but I think it looks pretty cool.
What is neat, however, are the high end luxury hatchbacks that both Audi and VW seem to have penciled into their roadmap, somewhere and somehow. I am a luxury, sporty hatchback fan. If anyone remembers the British Jensen brand they'll know why. Childhood dreams. :-)
At least Mazda's RX8 is truely more purposeful as it's billed as a 4 door sports car carrying over from the wonderful Rx8. M.B should focus resources on getting quality up and not putting out cars that have very limited market scope.
Designman - I tend to agree. That grill looked worse in pix than in person. Can't say I like it in general though. But each Audi seems to wear it differently and on the A6 it looks bold and fits well. Good looking car.
1. Redesigned IS, coming fall 2005, will offer two engines: 2.5 V6 and 3.5 V6.
2. Redesigned GS, arriving in spring 2005, will offer a 3.5 V6 or 4.6 V8 (if true, this is different from previous information saying a 3.0 V6 and 4.3 V8). A hybrid, GS 450h, will team a 4.5 V8 with an electric motor to create V12 performance with V6 fuel economy. Launch date has not been set, although reports say next spring.
3. The high-end of the truck line will gain the JX 470, based on the Sequoia. It should arrive spring 2006, although it is unsure if it will replace the LX 470 or supplement it.
Also, in a press release yesterday, Lexus announced:
1. World premiere of the LF-A exotic sports car concept at the North American Int'l Auto Show (January 9).
2. Debut of the 2005 GX 470 in Detroit, which sees a horsepower boost from 235 to 270.
3. Also in Detroit, the 2005 RX 330 Thundercloud limited edition will be introduced.
"A hybrid, GS 450h, will team a 4.5 V8 with an electric motor to create V12 performance with V6 fuel economy. Launch date has not been set, although reports say next spring.
WOW !!! is all I can say.... A hybrid car with a V12 performance and a V6 fuel economy ??? Is MB watching this ??? I sure hope they do, since all MB appears to do lately is churn out gazzillion new models and super-charged high octane motors. Who wouldn't want a V12 performance car with a V6 fuel economy ?? It's the best of ALL worlds for any car enthusiast....
I can see it already: even MB and BMW afficianados will want to check out a GS with such specs. Who wouldn't ? And if Lexus can get these people flocking to their showrooms, chances are great there'll be plenty of converts to the Lexus brand. Afterall, if you couple luxury and performance, with legendary reliability... It's the best of ALL worlds. Sorry, I am repeating myself here, but I had to... I'm just giddy about this news....
Lexus rules .... the happy camper tune
ps: Now Lexus is still coy about their LS redesign and release plans. What the heck are they hiding ???
http://irishcarnews.ie/lexus131204.htm
Do you have output ratings for any of these engines ? The 3.0L touted for the '06 GS3 had 245hp, will the 3.5L be a de-tuned version of the one in the '06 Avalon with 280-ish hp ?? Sure will be better than the 3.0L originally suggested...
How 'bout the *new* 4.6 V8 ?? Never heard of that except the patent filed by Lexus earlier this year. But no rating was given in the patent application. One can speculate at >300bhp, right ? And what will an 0-60 spec be for both the v6 and v8 engines ? Just more questions than answers for me....
At the Lexus driving event in August, the Lexus regional GM told me the new IS horsepower would be around 240 for the 2.5 and around 320 for the 3.5. Things may have changed since August but that is what he said.
A 320 bhp 3.5L V6 in the GS350 will be hot.... That'll compete favorably with the 530i and demolish the E320. The latter is a rip-off, price-wise, anyway.
So the 4.6L v8 should start north of 350bhp then ?
Sweet ! Just the kind of things Lexus needs to be doing to maintain and capture more market share from BMW and MB. Now, if only their exterior designs will meet up with what lies underneath the hood ???
And so it’s new and bold, hats off to thee
To our colors true we will ever be
Firm and strong, united are we
Rah rah rah, sis boom bah
Best scout camp is Lexus blah blah blah
Onward to vic-to-ry!!!
;-)
(I hope they like those jokes on the moon.)
545i: 4.4L = 325hp (3800 Ib curb weight), or 11.7 Ib/hp
M45: 4.5L = 340bhp (3800Ib curb weight), or 11.1 Ib/hp
E500: 5.0L = 302bhp (~4000Ib curb weight), or 13.2 Ib/hp, versus
GS4xx: 4.6 ~ 400bhp (3800Ib est. curb weight) at 9.5 Ib/hp
Outstanding weight-to-hp ratio for the GS should make it a hell of a car on a straightline. And if handling is improved (as expected), chances are it may even out-handle the Bimmer. That would be something, isn't it ?
Acura sells its re-designed RL with a 300hp 3.5L V6. Honda/Acura managed to squeeze out additional 30hp from the previous 270hp output. That was outstanding, for a V6. How many V6 engines churn out 300hp ?
A 2006 GS350 at 320hp is 100hp MORE than the current 220hp GS300. See the difference ? Especially seeing that this new 3.5L V6 will generate ~90hp/L. That is outstanding by any measure, and quite comparable to the 1ZZ Yamaha motor in the Matrix XRS (Celica as well) which generates 100 hp/L (from the 1.8L 180hp Celica).
C'mon, you gotta give Lexus its due props for trying to bring out a product that will compete. I am sure BMW and MB are not taking these information lightly (at least I hope not).
If they can't do it now, how is horsepower going to help?
And it isn't just the Sportcross that doesn't sell... I doubt Lexus will sell even 5000 IS300 sedans this year...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I look at the Acura TL and feel if that car can sell 5000-6000 units a month, the new IS should be just as successful.
I like the prognostications. Anyone know where the market is going?
Not to say they have not made miscalculations with "solutions" to problems that don't exist - like iDrive. People that have achieved lofty goals in life often reward themselves with something that occupies a status level, whether it be a BMW, Rolex or, yes... a Lexus. Nothing wrong with this and thankfully, there are choices out there to consider when searching for that reward!
COmpanies like BMW achieve their status level for one reason... it is earned over many years of delivering in excess of customer expectations. Their challenge is not losing these same customers with wrong-headed experiments with technology.
If iDrive was the answer to a problem, it should have been offered in low-volume cars (645) as an option to gain feedback, IMO. But, when it comes to the art of "driving", there are few vehicle lines that perform from top to bottom like BMW.
Wow! That’s a shocker coming from you. Were you just coming back from a holiday party on 5 martinis when you said that? ;-) I don’t care what the nitpickin’ details of tests say, no sedan outhandles BMWs. Audi is the closest. You know how much I criticize BMW, but the buck stops here. The steering, synergy of the drivetrain, the directional stability... tests don't measure this.
And while I also agree BMW has earned its reputation for building the most driver-oriented cars, I believe this matters only to some people. There are many drivers, including some in my own family, who have purchased BMWs and are far from hard-core driving enthusiasts and would never know (or care) that a BMW handles any different than other cars.
A lot of cars can beat the "numbers", but they can't match the "feel".
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
That isn't just cars.. pick any consumer item..
Most of my posts above were relative to the 3-series and IS300...
Like lenscap says.. many people aren't worried about driving dynamics, etc... The cars they choose don't really interest me, though..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I agree with lenscap's point though as I encounter plenty of slow BMW drivers who brake on curves I fly around. The thought that every BMW driver or even more than 50% of them is/are enthusiast(s) is pure myth carried to an extreme. But I would think for sure that BMW has the highest enthusiast percentage among major auto mfrs. (exclude Porsche as they are not a full line producer). I can't imagine that changing any time soon either. Personally I think BMW is more secure than MB, particularly in the American market.
However to say BMWs “sell simply because of the status of the BMW name” is inaccurate, and I maintain that people who think this way either know nothing about BMWs or do not appreciate their product benefits.
http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?tm200402.html
I brake on curves especially with my precious cargo(family) in the car. The way one drives though has little to do with the reasons one bought the car.
People may buy BMW for the name, but I believe they know what the name stands for, and, they don't have to drive like a testoserone-crazed teenage male to prove they know something about they way their BMW drives.
Nope..but, it sure is fun...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I drive an e39 530, as does my brother. She LOVES the feel and the drive of our cars, so she said she wanted a BMW! We bought her a 2004 325i and she is in love with this car... and this after coming from a 1986 Caddy Fleetwood. She said that she feels more connected with the car and finds it actually easier to drive than her friend's cars - not to mention the Caddy.
Granted, she doesn't take turns like a hormone-crazed teenager, but she feels safer on the road and can react better to driving situations. I assure you, this is a good thing for others on the road as well as for her. I spent 3 days with her to take it on the road in various conditions so she could familiarize herself with the controls and the new "feel" on the road compared with her old Caddy.
Now she says that driving the 325 is a real pleasure... and her bridge group buddies are all jealous ;-)
Tells me one thing crystal clear: Luxury cars are purchased primarily because of their name brand. Period.
See how Lexus has supplanted the entire luxury market in 15 years of entry ? They know their market more than the competition. And they cater to this 90% of their clientele more than MB and BMW does. Like lovemyclk correctly posited, what problem(s) is I-Drive solving? More like creating problems that solving anything ? MB has reliability issues, BMW has design and electronic issues. Lexus, so far, is dancing clear of trouble, and if they can meet their goals of the new releases for MY 2006 and 2007, who knows how high they'll go ?
Can't get this out of my head tho': a v12 performance with a v6 fuel performance ! We are talking a 500+bhp car (potentially), with 25+ mpg (potentially)? Are you kidding me ?? This engine in an LS500 will blow the competition away.... literally...MY2007 cannot come soon enough !
Me, I just want the LS SWB version, with a sweet 4.6L engine churning out 400+bhp, in a sweet new skin, with 19" shoes, and 6-speed manumatic shifter. That'll be a killer car when it comes out...
Anyways, with all the hoopla about 320hp and 400+hp Lexuses, I think that the biggest news is that they're bringing a IS250. If they get it right, it'll be a huge seller for Lexus, just like the 325i is for BMW. The 325i outsells the 330i by more than 4 to 1. Infiniti needs to do the same and bring the G25 or G30, and price it a couple thousand less than the G35.
I'd be a bit more spirited but I just watched the local news and the damm weather guru's in NYC are all excited about a blizzard on Monday. Man - they had better be UNRELIABLE - if you know what I mean.
Now - about Lexus - we know a lot about everything else - thanks to Lenscap - but we still are lacking about the cars (HPX included)we really care about. Gotta get to the bottom of this when I service my car within the next month. I have no doubt though that 2007 will be the latest possible point of the big change. But I want it to be 2006 or April 2007 so that the excitement calms down by my current lease endpoint. In the meantime this 2004 LS is just plain fabulous. I don't lease it because of the L on the hood. I lease it (and have done so now for 10 years) because its one of the best luxury cars in the world (best under $100K in my book) with reliability you can take to the bank.
You correctly pointed out that Lexus is being secretive about the new LS bcos they want to make a big bang with this car. If the releases as we are finding out come out in that order - GS > IS ~ GX > LS > LX/JX, then one can speculate a spring/summer of 2006 for the LS. I sure hope for this timeframe.
I see lots of AMG-badged cars out here in San Diego. Way too many... Beautiful cars, I must confess. All of them. Saw my first C55 AMG just this past weekend. Brand, spanking new car. Beautiful. My favorite MB, so far, is the E55. Just cool, baby ! Don't care for the bangle-ized 5- and 7-series. Audi just never moved me at all. Ditto Jaguar. Will like to see a car with MB exterior, Lexus interior, Lexus reliability and BMW chassis and drivetrain. Hmmmm.... Any car fill such a description and priced under $70K ?
A. Most admired cars
B. Motor Trend's Cars of the Year
C. Cars most preferred by driving enthusiasts
D. Most unreliable sedans made
MAKE MODEL Average Price
1 Mercedes-Benz S-Class $100,000
2 Jaguar S-Type 51,000
3 BMW 7 Series 94,000
4 Jaguar X-Type 33,000
5 Mercedes-Benz E-Class 64,000
6 Mercedes-Benz C-Class(V6) 40,000
7 Volvo S60 (AWD) 32,000
8 Saab 9-3 35,000
9 Pontiac Grand Prix¹ 25,000
10 Volkswagen Passat(AWD) 28,000
11 BMW 5 Series 58,000
Yep, it's "D". How sad, MB's top-of-the-line sedan is now more unreliable than the worst Jaguar, for which the joke was created "I love my Jag so much, I bought two: one to drive while the other is in the shop." And MB sedans hold 3 out of the top (bottom) 6 places.
The 12/13/04 Forbes (p.62) has an article headed "Over-Engineering 101: Seems that the fancier- and more European- the car, the less reliable it is". They note that YTD through October, 7 Series and S Class sales were down 19% and 12%, respectively, compared to 2003.
http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2004/1220/025.html
I guess the target market for these cars is now (1) people who can afford to buy 2 of them, and have full-time help that can take them to the shop for repairs-- or who don't work themselves so they are looking for something to do to get them out of their castles, and enjoy the all the trips back to the dealer; (2) people who don't read; and (3) people who can really appreciate the very slightly noticeable (at normal speed) better road handling, and don't care about the practicality. That's got to be a shrinking universe.
A while back on 5 series board someone had a hissy fit when I quesitoned BMW's 5 & 7 and most new M.B had bad reliability straight from C.R. latest report. Can't critize Bungle's latest basterdized offspring. Too bad I will lol.
On the next upcoming Lexus it will a deja vu all over again like 1989 according to my dealer. Another revolution coming. The V-12 rumour is not happening that would just be playing to the status quo of the others which Lexus will never do. Their being very secretive and have every reason to be, this car be a technology tour-de-force unlike any other Japanese or german competitor to date.