High End Luxury Cars

ljflx · December 2004

It's the same thing about that ride with a Lexus, particularly the LS. Preference needle is just pointed in a different direction.

"Leave the gun, take the Ganoli's". Don't remember what car it was but ride or lack of ride it remained there.

hpowders · December 2004

In taking wife to the airport early this morning, a pickup truck was weaving in and out on the highway at very high speed. I signaled to change lanes to the speed lane from the middle and halfway into the lane, this lunatic appears out of nowhere. I quickly moved back to the middle swerving and felt like I was on 2 wheels. Thank God it was a beemer. The maniac(had to be going 95 mph) continued weaving in and out in front of me. My wife complimented me on my alertness. But I knew if it wasn't a BMW, I don't know if I would be here writing this now. Because of this, I do believe my next car will be a BMW 545 instead of the Lexus LS430 as originally planned. I don't believe the Lexus has the agility to help me in that situation. "Michael, after you finish, don't run. Just drop the gun and walk straight ahead. Do not look at anyone."

ljflx · December 2004

My old 280Z got me out of an encounter like that a long time ago. But my next car was not a 280Z as a result. That was a freak situation as far as I was concerned and never influenced amy future purchase decisions. But I did feel the same way you do now for a brief time afterward. That one event was also the only time it happened in all my years of driving and - wow - that was 22 years ago now.

hpowders · December 2004

Yeah. For me it was the first time in 36 years. There is logic to what you say.

kdshapiro · December 2004

I had 3 deer near misses in the last year as well as one extreme accident avoidance maneuver. While there is no doubt a number of other vehicles would have been able to avoid the deer as well, the agility of my vehicle cemented my relationship with BMW.

On another note read in the latest C/D BMW is developing the 7 series with a hydrogen/gas engine. Details were sketchy but it sounds interesting.

ljflx · December 2004

Too many deer by us.

If you find a link to that story please post it.

sapparo · December 2004

Interesting and becoming reality at Mazda. Check out the RX-8 with this technology. The world's first application of such.

http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/468

kdshapiro · December 2004

It's the first and only application in a rotary engine, not the first application in the world.

paldi · December 2004

Hi, I'm Paldi. In 1983 I bought a used 1982 DeLorean for $12,500. Today it's worth about the same!

I've been looking at Phaetons at auction. Running about $40,000 or a couple thou more right now. Rumors are flying that VW will soon stop production and devote most or at least some of their Dresden "glass factory" plant to Bentley Continental GT's and a new, not yet announced 4-door Bentley sedan. VW may continue building the Phaeton there too, but maybe not in great numbers.

At $40,000 it is a pretty good used car most with less than 10k miles. I've also been offered a loaded $72k MSRP car with 200 miles on it by a VW dealership for $61,000. Too high for me, but maybe it will drop?

Sorry to ramble on. Is VW pulling the plug? Should I wait or get them while they're hot?

kyfdx · December 2004

The Phaeton won't be like your Delorean.. It is a sedan.... As you can see, their used prices are dropping like a rock, and will likely continue to do so...

However, if you are in the market for a $70K sedan, and are considering a Phaeton instead for about $45K, you might come out ahead in the long run.... But, you won't be better off than buying a different $45K car that has better re-sale (like a BMW or a Lexus).

regards,

kyfdx

oac · December 2004

Personally, I don't see how VW has earned the cache in the market to ask for $60+K on their 4-door cars. If this was badged under Audi or Bentley, YES, but VW, a resounding NO. There is currently little track record to speak of (too new), but plenty of *issues* reported by owners. Typical VW stuff... Check out the Phaeton forum, talk to dealers, look around the web for more info you can gather on this car before you leap. If you are looking for a good, reliable, luxury sedan @ $45K-ish, why not check out a BMW, Audi or Lexus (CPOs or low-milers). The market is already showing that VWs cannot command the price being asked for the Phaeton.

Best of luck in your car purchase.

paldi · December 2004

Hmmm, last auction 2 V8's went for $44-46,000. Prices firming uo as the cars had 10 and 15k miles. Wndering if the had the options or were base. Also, who bought them? I want to find the blue one!

paldi · December 2004

OK, the silver one was immediately put on eBay and AutoTrader for $2,000 above the auction sale price. That is a base car and it's listed as being located in Chicago probably a couple of blocks from the auction sale location. The blue one is so far unaccounted for.

I missed my opportunity to buy the black, fully optioned, 100 mile '04 for $60,700. Drove by the dealer and saw the "sold" ticket in the window. That was a beauty with gray interior and all the options except paint. Wondering if the buyer got it for less than my quote (above)?

So, my current opportunity is to take over someone else's lease. How do I do that and is it a good idea?

paldi · December 2004

Has anyone driven both for an extended period? I would appreciate your comments. My seat time has been limited to about 7 miles in the A8 and 1 mile in the Phaeton so far... The A8 had a bad shift lag between 1st and 2nd.

paldi · December 2004

Hello: Have been a long-time 1994 Caddy Fleetwood owner & am looking for a change to '04-05 VW Phaeton. Thought I would post here for some advice.

Live in the Philadelphia area & am looking for a Phaeton w/approx 10 to 15k miles. From reading comments, sounds like a very good car. Any idea on price? Also, since the last car I purchased was pre-internet, any hints on the best way to check the marketplace & get a good deal. Never really trusted the used car dealers here & am not sure about Fleetway Leasing/Sales. I appreciate anyone's help. Thanks

ljflx · December 2004

TBS doing Honeymooner marathon on New Years eve or New Years day. Check your listings as I didn't get the specific day or time.

Happy New Year to everyone.

designman · December 2004

Thanks, maybe Ill check them out. I think that happened once or several times before on New Years Eve. Mrs. Designman and I arent really into New Years partying so flicks and such fit the occasion. Hey, I was recently wondering, did you ever get a piano?

Anyway, another year bites the dust. In the 70s and 80s I remember thinking how the year 2000 seemed wa-a-a-y off in the distant future. Now its 5 years in the past. Cie la vie.

Happy New Year and best wishes to all.

:-)

ljflx · December 2004

No on the piano - finishing off a good part of the basement (mine is 2850 feet) and putting in a nice exercise room. Looking for a nice TV down there too. Piano put off till late next year. I'm with you on New Years eve. If I party it's real local with community friends and there are plenty of kids under 10 on the scene. But I did experience Times Square once on a 20 degree night with friends back in my single days. It was actually a lot better than I expected and we all had a great time but somehow once was enough. You have absolutely no control over the direction that wave of people move in once the ball drops. We all got separated and had to re-group at a bar near MSG.

I-robot, manchurian candidate and van helsing are great to watch - particularly if you have a home theatre set-up. The last is really loud on a home theatre - but a lot of fun.

jstyle · January 2005

Most accurate spy pics of new 2006 S class

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7868&sid=17- 8&n=158

oac · January 2005

One word: UGLY !

A reverse of design, imo. The current S-class design is beautiful and elegant. As much so as the new E design. Who are these MB design geniuses anyway ?

michael_mattox · January 2005

That can't possibly be the new S-Class...It looks too cheap...

It looks Korean.

sapparo · January 2005

Yep, that sure is the 06' S class if you can call it that. Looks like Mitsu. goofy design details mixed with the horrible BMW 7 series trunk lid. The Spies website has better pics. of it being tested. This is the final locked in design. Front headlights look dinky and I hate the fender creases.. Care to wager that the next 2006 LS will make this car look bad..

princeabubu · January 2005

Those two photos are photoshops... The front will look a lot better than it does in that crappy PS. Have a little faith... I personally think it is going to look great. I've been following this car for it seems like 2 years now. Mercedes isn't going to screw it up.

rgsw · January 2005

It shares a lot of similarities with the LS430, e.g. headlights, hood, etc. Don't think I'll be switching.

ljflx · January 2005

That style has been featured for awhile now in a number of places. But this is the most detailed pix shown yet. It's either a real pix or someone knows how to pass around cropped pix very well. For MB's sake I hope that is not the car. It's not that it's bad, but it just is missing something. On the other hand they, BMW and to a lesser extent Audi have made their bold revolutionary move already. So the next design can only be evolutionary. Lexus on the other hand still has the that trump card to play. If they do it right - look-out. But then - they already have a 50% market share in this space anyway.

I don't think the S looks cheap as you can only tell that in person. I do worry though that with falling sales, a super strong euro and no ability to raise prices MB may have no choice but to cut corners. Hopefully they are smart enough to take some profit cuts until the Euro retreats rather than do that.

princeabubu · January 2005

Am I aloud to post pictures from other websites of spy photos of the W221?

designman · January 2005

Resembles the RL. It also borrows the asymmetrical crease beneath the beltline that the Altima made famous. Those SUV-like fender flares really ruin it and are a classic example of overdesign. However it still isn't as egregious as the BMWs.

I've said this before, the LS camp needs to be concerned. Then again, if you like the GS you will no doubt be delighted. No one is doing anything notable with styling design; they are all shooting in the dark, copying each other. I blame it on the lack of aesthetic wherewithal within corporate culture. There are too many committees and unqualified people getting their strokes in with the paintbrush.

ljflx · January 2005

Re the LS camp comment - Do you mean that we have to worry about a strange design concept with the upcoming LS re-design? I love the LFS concept and supposedly the new LS is going to be close to it. Meanwhile MB (asuming that is a legit pix) and BMW are engaging in design & technology concepts that most people thiink are ludicrous. Audi has played it real smart (if you overlook its MMI which is a waste) but just can't seem to gain marketshare here. A8 sales are already falling off. Door is wide open for Lexus right now - IMO.

bobp7 · January 2005

i have been following your search for a phaeton here and at 'the other board". don't give up. i took delivery of my '04 demo that i had shipped cross-country to my door. 45 minutes after delivery my family was packed up and off we went to a destination 4 hours away. the car was flawless (except for a door needing minor adjustment). i have over 35 years experience with mb - s class included - (parents), and just sold my 740il and clk430 before getting the phaeton. i would suggest you listen to people who have actually driven the car before reaching the negative conclusion some reach with their knee-jerk reactions to the vw badge and whether or not it is appropriate for vw to play in the luxury car market. they tend to forget that there is a bently continental gt chassis under this car and much of the interior, switch gear, infotainment, controls, trunk, etc. are identical. arguably you are buying a car with a pedigree above the 7'er and s class. (that comment should upset a few people on the board).

this car is more than competitive with the better mb's and bmw's, etc. while not every feature and function is better than the alternatives, on balance, this car delivers an experience that exceeds expectations. this is even more important when discounts associated with the phaeton are factored into the mix.

the dealer and service part of the equation is not so clear cut. i believe i have found a good service facility because they have sold more phaetons than almost anybody else so they have more experience working on them too. time will tell. but i refused to continue visiting bmw and mercedes dealers where i find the service departments of nearby dealers to be almost insulting in the way they treat you. infiniti was my best experience and lexus my parent's favorite service department over the years. but that didn't push them to drive a lexus again or me to select the infiniti either. reliability of the other german brands requires much more time at dealer service departments than is desirable. the satisfaction you get from the driving experience between the more reliable asian cars vs. the german cars becomes a very personal matter

if possible i would suggest leasing as a way to protect yourself against potential resale issues.

in the spirit of the thread off-topic sub discussion, next time an unqualified person tells you to buy a lesser car tell them "...to the moon, alice, to the moon"!

bob

oac · January 2005

In the spirit of new designs, here is one for the next LS. I sure hope it is not a cropped pic... How does this compare to the new S and/or 745i?

http://img19.exs.cx/img19/3486/06is3009oa.jpg

kyfdx · January 2005

That looks like an artist's rendering to me.. Kind of generic, like most drawings... If it came out looking that sleek, it would be nice, but I'm guessing that drawing won't be all that close to the final product...

Here's hoping...

oac · January 2005

Anyone want to interpret the Japanese writings on this link ? Looks to my untrained eye its saying something about a base LS with the 4.5 or 4.6L engine, and a super-LS with the 5L engine. Comprende ?

jvcn · January 2005

If the LS came out looking that sleek, it would turn off LS buyers. Some of us like cars to be elegant, sedate, and even YES boring.

ljflx · January 2005

That is the LFS concept stretched and as kydfx states is more of a drawing. But from what I have been told it will be very much like the LFS concept dsign (more so than the GS) so it may be pretty accurate. That car will win over many a German car fanatic and the reliability and great ride factor will make it very difficult for the more conservative LS diehards to ever walk. Great looking car.

OAC - If that is it the car will be superhot. It also better be a 2006 because there won't be much of a cooldown by the time my lease ends in March 2007 if it is later than a spring 2006 debut. That thing in a 600HP hybrid form is the sedan of the century.

pablo_l · January 2005

The new S class spy pictures I have seen in the German press look quite sharp to me. As of now, having just been majorly burned by my wife's Merc ($4,500 of running costs thus far this year), I am not in a friendly disposition. Odd how the maintenance cost has built up just as the free maintenance expires after the warranty period - looks to me they kept the car running and just fix all the stuff out of warranty at the owners' expense. Lesson learned - if you like MB, lease it, they're not built to be long term ownership objects anymore. I've written them off for myself, sadly, but understand those who still like the history and pedigree (I do, I am just not willing to pay as much in maintenance). Wife's deciding whether she wants to lease or own now, because I simply now have decided we've thrown enough good money into a losing battle, and it's better to trade the car in now that it runs well before something else goes wrong - because if something else breaks either you fix it again or you stick to Mercedes, who will try to sway you saying they'll fix their car "out lf their own pocket" if you buy another MB. I asked them whether they had a Lexus in their used car lot, and left it at that. If she wants to own, I'll boycott the Mercedes choice. She's thinking buying a Lexus RX or GX.

ljfx mentioned home gyms - I couldn't live without one again. I am a work-out junkie, and sadly the only way to schedule it predictable is in the very early morning - I get up every day at 5am to do weights and cardio in our gym. We've had a Vectra 4000 gym, a Stairmaster 4400, and a LifeFitness 5500 bike for 5 years, and in daily use (my wife is a workout nut as well) there's never been a single hitch. Very highly recommended.

hpowders · January 2005

I don't know-a lot of those conservative old fogies who usually buy the LS-I just don't see them buying this new design without having a pacemaker installed first.

hpowders · January 2005

I guess the Honeymooners doesn't play well in Tampa. We didn't get it. Busy enough with the perennial twilight zone marathon-this time with uncut episodes on Sci Fi. Love the way they split screen the credits so there is no way I could identify any of those long forgotten actors.

Hope to get my 2005 LS in August.

Happy New Year!

ljflx · January 2005

Big difference betweem the GX and RX. One's really an elevated station wagon thar sells as an SUV and is thus more car like in ride and behavior (real good mileage too). The other (GX of course) is a silky smooth quiet riding true blood SUV. GX reliability back to normal Lexus standards now and mine has been nothing short of excellent in having bulletproof reliability and fulfilling our family needs. Either way you can't go wrong.

oac · January 2005

"conservative old fogies who usually buy the LS"

Geez ! And from a guy who plans to own an LS this year ? Maybe you are describing yourself, certainly not me.

oac · January 2005

Wish Merc1 was here to read this....

Classic, man ! So you are going to support your wife buying a Lexus ? I'd like to see that happen first to believe it ? Whatever happened to a X5 or an FX35/45 or anything BUT a Lexus, judging by your past posts here. If you actually buy a Lexus, maybe you'll then understand why Lex fans are, yes... Lex fans...

And next will be Designman.... He'll see the light real soon as well.

ljflx · January 2005

It was actually on WPIX 11 in NYC and that is a superstation carried on many satellite and cable packages. I thought it was on TBS at first but I must have been tuned in to an old "Raymond" episode on the WB network which WPIX is a part of when that ad ran.

I think you'll find that a sporty looking LS will not lose many current owners. Besides where are they going to go. The market is trending to a sportier look save the 7 which seems to be in a state of confusion with a great pedigree front-end and a back-end that looks like an amateur took over in the middle of the design. I'm not even sure BMW knows what it's going to do with the next iteration as it's two different cars welded together. You can also bet Toyota has done its market research on its most reknowned vehicle. Also - most people buy Lexus because of the luxury, great ride and bulletproof dependability. None of that will change with the new LS. BTW - what happened to the 5-series?

OAC - Don't remember Pablo putting Lexus down in the past. Still worried about merc1 though as he's been away far too long now. Designnman needs a Lexus on one side of his garage and a BMW on the other side and then he has the best of both worlds.

ljflx · January 2005

A pix posted on the 2007 LS discusion board.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid149/p611f6497c9fb27cb038- - - - - - 717e5644603d5/f5fecb82.jpg.orig.jpg

designman - what do you think? Certainly MB's influence is long gone if this is for real. The grill and front lights are a more LFS like version of todays car. It somehow is both evolutionary and revolutionary at the same time and it makes a bold statement change for Lexus. Maybe they can please the conservative and sporty branches with one car. Looks like a smash hit car to me. Change the grill a bit, put on a different (German) logo and it's probably what the 7 should have been.

hpowders · January 2005

A lot of people who buy the LS are wealthy, older, conservative males. That is just a fact. It has no bearing on my wanting the car. And those guys are going to be turned off by the new, less conservative LS body style.

hpowders · January 2005

Yes-the luxury, great ride and bulletproof dependability as you put it-are exactly the reasons why I can hardly wait for August when the BMW leasing powers that be finally release me from my 36 month obligation and I can get my beautiful, conservative, luxurious, idrive-free LS.

Boy do I miss WPIX from my many years in NYC. Is Katie Tong still doing the 10pm news there?

pablo_l · January 2005

>.. anything BUT a Lexus, judging by your past posts here ..

All I can say is you must be confusing me with someone else. I have never questioned Lexus produces a high quality product, thus it's no surprise that they come up much higher on my preference list after going through a maintenance experience like I've just had with a Merc that's barely 4 years old.

That said, I think that car vendors in general increasingly tailor their engineering to the requirements of the more fashion conscious (and less [very] long term maintenance concerned) leasing market. Thus, even though up to this point I have preferred to outright own my cars and buy them cash, given the market realities I do not think the buy-vs-lease equation is no longer just the usual equation people are stil presented with: personal preference, how many miles, yadda-dadda... People these days need to factor in that premium car manufacturers probably regard the leasing market as their primary customer group, and engineer their cars for that. Long term owners are probably becoming a minority, and minorities' needs typically get neglected in large scale business... For now I think I might never buy a car with cash again (collectibles excepted). I'll keep my current collectible, I'll buy motorcycles, but the main transport cars I'll probably lease for 3 years henceforth.

pablo_l · January 2005

Needless to say, the odds on my wife taking her vehicle offroad are about as long as the Raiders' chances of making it to the Superbowl. I drive my collectible faster over speedbumps than she does with her SUV... I am inclined to think she'll prefer the RX. I think the GX feels more solid, promising the longevity I have until now favored, but which I am now willng to reconsider if we start leasing cars, which probably is the way of the future. Ah, consumerism is just *forced* upon us. :-) I also like the VW Touareg, but my wife has become a car brand snob, even though she will not outright admit to it. As far as SUVs are concerned, she'll only really consider Lexus, MB, Land Rover, Porsche (the Range and the Cayenne are out of the <$50k target range, though) and BMW, but does not like the latter's design.

princeabubu · January 2005

The only reason I can see that one might think that this next S-Class looks bland, is just because it doensn't look radically different from the current car.

As for the LS... I'm not expecting that Lexus is going to pull off anything breathtaking... They have proven that they can get people to buy their cars without giving a second thought to the styling of their cars, so what's the use in spending a lot on design?

It's interesting that for it seems like 2 years now, there have been spy photos of the next S in real testing form, and I have never seen a spy pic of any Lexus car. What's the deal with that?

ljflx · January 2005

The reasons are many but the primary reason is simple - Lexus is goong worldwide in 2007 with a major marketing and worldwide branding push, particularly in Europe, Asia and China. Till now emphasis has only been on North America, mainly the US of course They've already announced a multitude of new engines including higher powered gas engines (and Lexus tweaks power from these things very very well), a poweful hybrid at 500+HP and a superpowerful 600HP hybrid engine. The latter two supposedly can get 40-50+MPG with the next battery design they will come out with in 2006 and 2007. Those are bold moves with a lot more choice alternatives then in the past. Next they saw that MB went from super conservative to sport design (MB cars were hardly flashy until the S re-design) with ease and increased excitement. Reliability is killing MB's reputation and now is hurting sales. Sporty design and plethora of choice has saved them from a much greater fall or at least postponed it. On top of that Lexus has already spent a ton of money on its California design team and this new LFS styling depicted in that picture so the investment is already made and is continuing. They've also announced a $150K super-sportscar for 2007. But they will undoubtedly make their biggest splash with the LS, the car that defined its existence and reputation and re-wrote the rules in 1989. Lastly Lexus has the most efficient production process known to man, predominantly robotic (costly to develop and very cheap to maintain and produce cars) and is very profitable as a result - and they have plenty of bandwidth on pricing given they are so much lower priced then the Germans. Remember also that Toyota is the 800lb gorilla in the auto industry minting Microsoft and GE like 12bln+ a year profits and a hoard of cash and very low debt. They can do whatever they want. The business plan always was to lay low, rapidly gain marketshare and then attack. The development of the SUV was never foreseen in the 80's when Lexus was planned but man did they hit that nail on the head. But for sure it held back the attack scale-up on cars. So there are your reasons. As Geore Allen always said - the future is now. And if I were an MB lover I'd certainly wait on that LS. Thus I'm sure that you'll see a bunch of new LS news right about the time the new S news is ready to hit the airwaves. Toyota has always been very secretive as well treating new design as if it was classified material - thus the lack of news. The LX470 is closer to a new design than the LS and is in a much less competitive segment - yet no one seems to know what that will look like at the moment.

ljflx · January 2005

In my town and much of the surrounding area - LS430's and S-class cars dominate the large lux driving. Audi's are few and far between. BMW 7's are not all that common but 5's, 3's and X5's are plentiful. TLC's and LX470's dominate the large lux suv landscape. RX's are seen virtually the minute you are on the road. In virtually all cases the drivers are people in their 40's (I know many of them from school activities and other social functions) to early 50's. All of these people will not even blink at that LS re-design and will probably rush to it. I think the Florida crowd may be older simply because of the migration south as we get older. When I'm in Florida I tend to see mainly 55+ drivers of virtually any $50K+ lux car.

In the sportsworld everything has flipflopped up here. WOR9 is doing Yankee games this year and I think WPIX does the Mets. Yankees have their Yes network and Mets network debuts soon. The Yes network has given George S the money to pursue any and every free agent on the baseball planet. I used to be a diehard Yankee fan but the competitive nature of the game is gone with the greatly disproportionate payrolls. If a team wins the WS with a $125mln+ payroll it should get an asterisk. If Bud Selig wants to get George's ire - that will certainly burn him up.

kdshapiro · January 2005

Funny friends of mine are counting the days when the powers to be at Lexus releases them from their conservative, quirky LS lease and they can slip into something more German, maybe with some idrive for dessert.

What lj said about WPIX and WOR.

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