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Comments
--'rocco
Rdl40, yes I noticed the center console is wider than most of the cars including our "OLD" A4's. I also found myself resting my leg on the center console as i'm almost 6'. It's not something that bad though really, although I have no clue why the hand brake will hit the armrest when you set it. Seems like the ergonomists and engineers in Germany screwed that up.
Audibuyer1, you just need to figure out if you:
1. drive aggresive enough to take advantage of the stiffer suspension and stickier tires (if so, pro Sports)
2. rather prefer a more comfortable ride (if so, pro non-Sports)
3. want two sets of dedicated summer and winter tires (if so, pro Sports)
4. like the looks of the 16" rims or the 17" rims
5. want to shelf out the extra $1k
Gotta say though, Dolphin Gray and Platinum with the 1.8T aluminum interior inserts is the BEST combo I've seen. Very high tech and classy feel. Good choice.
Billy
Paul-- Have you driven the standard suspension and the sport suspension cars back-to-back? From my understanding, the standard suspension in the '02 is supposed to be stellar in its handling unlike the pre-'02 A4s where the sport suspension made quite a difference. Some have said that the '02 in its stock form rivals the pre-'02's sport package set-up.
Dolphin gray with platinum leatherette seems like a nice combo. IMO, and this is IMO only, leatherette will wear better than leather. Leather starts to show its age after a few years. In my previous experience, leatherette looks new even after 10 years. Sure, leather will feel more luxurious but the leatherette in my "old" A4 still looks quite classy IMHO, being that they are just vinyl seats. For the price you'll pay for leather, you can just about (almost ...within $80) get both the Bose and the sport package for the same price ($650 + $750 = $1,400 where leather alone is a $1,320 option in the 3.0)
--'rocco
Thanx for clearing up that Mobil 1 info.
--'rocco
I bought my car with the 15" wheels and felt that the drive was just too cushiony (my last car was a 2000 A4 with sport suspension). I have since purchased aftermarket 16" wheels with Dunlop Sport A2 M&S tires and am now experiencing a much tighter ride (not as tight as with the sport suspension/tires but definitely better in mud and snow).
Many people (that I know, I must add -- showing my friend's bias) regret not getting the sport set up -- I know of no one that wishes he/she had gone for the standard suspension. Ditto with the Xenons and Bose.
Billy
-Barry
--'rocco
And, ECU upgrade is good?
ECU upgrade? You mean chipped? Well your car will have a lot more torque and somewhat more hp but of course it will void the warranty if you try to claim the parts damaged due to chipping. It's like putting more chips on a gambling table.....if you win, you gain a lot more.....but if you lose, you are going to lose quite a bit. I was thinking about chipping for a while but now I feel with more power I'm going to get pulled over for speeding quite often.
Billy
Thanks for answer...
By the way about buying a used or a new car. I had a honda accord 9 years ago I paid $15K for it. I sold it for $7500 with 75k miles on it. No repair no nothing. It cost me 10 cents a mile and the pleasure of driving a new car.
I know I don't post that much, but I do follow this board and the 3 series board every day. I noticed lots of folks saying they really need the xenons and others regret not getting them. So I ask, why? I do not drive too much at night, and I have never noticed a problem with my '97's stock lights. I hate it when I see the blue glare of xenon lights coming at me, probably because they are different from other cars and the change seems weird to me.
After talking to my significant other and crunching some numbers it looks like I can maybe replace both my '90 Miata and the '97 A4. I drove the new A4 with the 3.0 and loved it, got to get my wife in it. We will drive a 325 over the holidays, though my local dealer says he won't have a manual transmission available (and he calls himself Performance!). We are also considering a Toyota Prius as a second car. Yes, I know, ugly, slow, very ugly, and very slow. But it gets 50 mpg in city driving, and that is all the Miata gets to do now that we have a child. It would be an OK commuter car, and it does leave some extra money for more goodies on the 'nice car.'
So this is my question, why should I get xenon lights over, say, heated seats? If I don't do that much night driving, should I just bag them? Since I have a 2 year old, an improved stereo is not an option. She doesn't like my music loud, and actually prefers to talk through most drives. Thanks in advance and I hope to have news of a new vehicle after the Holidays.
Happy Holidays to all.
Ned
And as far as the heated seats go, that's another option that I'd have a hard time doing without now that I have two vehicles that have them. They're definitely an option worth considering.
Prius! ...good decision! I'm assuming that more hybrids will appear in the future with hopefully better styling. I've heard that next year, Honda will be putting the system used in the Insight in a Civic sedan. I don't know when it's due to be available, but maybe you might want to wait and see how it will compare with the Prius. I'd definitely consider a hybrid for a commuter car and will be watching closely as the selection develops in the future.
Good luck and keep us informed.
yury-- I looked at the S60 too. I don't know, for some reason I just wasn't that impressed with it. It didn't handle like the A4 and I actually think that reliability would be worse from what I've heard from people who own Volvos. And yup, can't beat the reliability of those Accords, can ya? *chuckles*
--'rocco
Ned, I regret getting Xenons cuz yes, I do a lot of night driving and with the icy white beams they look a lot brighter and sharper, and of coures there's the "luxury car" feel towards Xenons. If you don't do that much nite driving, I'd agree with 02A4Curt that you won't need Xenons. Bun warmers are a nice touch though, and of course that depends on where you live. Here in Chicago I like them a lot and wish I got the heated steering wheel like the Allroads.
Billy
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/48463/article.html
Just in case anyone out there who's considering it.....beware!! The engine is a close relative to Taurus's and the chassis is from a Ford Mondeo/Contour. EXciting.
Billy
--'rocco
I bring this up not to disagree with the other posts, because I fundamentally do agree with them. The bun warmers are fantastic and they are good both day and night. But I am on my 5th Audi with Xenons, my last non-Xenon Audi being a 1997 A8, and I think they are GREAT.
I just would hate to know that I haven't stirred up the pot a little bit.
Happy holidays.
Best Regards,
Shipo
*heh* ...gee, that sounded kind of harsh so flames welcome but with that said, I know, it's easier said than done. I'm naturally a value conscious shopper so I'm always comparing prices and weighing the benefits against their cost of anything I purchase. Had the '01 1.8T I bought not come almost fully loaded, I might not have ordered the car with either Xenons, heated seats, Bose, ESP or maybe not even a sunroof. But since the car came with those options, I'm glad I purchased that particular car because I really have no regrets about paying for them.
--'rocco
Three of the current A4's are 2001 1.8T's, one is a 1999 A4 2.8.
Two of the A4 1.8T's have ESP, Xenons, Bose, Sport Pkg (one even has an Audi rear deck spoiler). The other 2001 1.8T lacks the Bose, Xenons and ESP -- this owner regrets not getting the Xenons and the ESP. All the 2001's have heated seats, the 1999 came from Dallas -- where heated seats are in the minority.
All are stick shifts.
Wondering out loud, one owner said, can I have the Xenon's and ESP retrofitted? We all know the answer is yes -- but for a stack of 100 dollar bills "this high." In other words, while technically possible, financially impossible (practically speaking).
The point about "at this price, what's an extra $500?" does have some merit. Audi seems determined to lease these things at a term between 30 - 39 months. The payment difference is real, but I think the point that was being underscored, is that at this price point it is (or should not be) material.
See how easy it is to spend someone else's money?
Seriously, those that opt out of the Xenons, etc. almost universally "regret" their then thrifty decision.
At least this is the observation I have made. Now here is what most of them do -- they get the Xenons and don't get the optional paint (such as silver or pearl, etc).
Good luck with the rest of your purchase!
--Adam
Pluses
-Great sports suspension with minimal comfort trade-off (car exhibited virtually no body lean during high speed sweepers, provides excellent feedback to the driver, and is not harsh at all)
-Quattro drive train provides additional performance and safety margin over only one driven axle (I could definitely feel it pulling/pushing when salesman had me take a 35 mph curve at 70 mph)
-3.0 engine felt strong, with a good sound (not sure why press calls it muted)
-Offered in manual transmission (and stocked by dealers)
-High quality materials, to include leatherette
-Heated seat option includes rear seats as well
Minuses
-Clutch take-up is high and shifter feels rubbery. While this mirrors all VAG set-ups I've ever owned, it doesn't measure up to the best in the market (Test drive an RSX Type-S to see what I mean) Also, I found the armrest forced my arm into an uncomfortable position. While it can be tilted up to get it out of the way, this then renders the cup holders within useless.
-Cramped rear seat (doesn't seem any bigger than 2001 models)
-Accelerator pedal too close to center console
-Pricey options
If the car was going to be for me, I'd probably have opted for the A4 3.0Q with a manual. Since I'll be looking to replace my vehicle in a couple of years, I hope Audi makes the following improvements:
-Improve clutch/shifter feel
-Introduce diesel engine to NA market or improve fuel efficiency of gasoline engines (i.e., FSI direction injection gasoline engine)
-Make xenon headlights standard
-Improve ergonomics (cup holders are better in the new Passat)
-Give the brakes a slightly firmer feel
-Add European Delivery Option
-Paint lower body cladding the same as the rest of the car
Just my two cents,
KAM
Enjoy your choice, but think of us now and then as you cruise the streets on your pleasure drives.
Kam66, as Ken pointed out, no prob with the IS300 if you live in mild (minimal or no snow/ice conditions). But if you do get snow/ice quite often, the RWD IS300 is going to leave you either stranded in the snow/ice or you end up in a ditch. I've seen so many BMW's either hiding in their garages or end up on the shoulder cuz their RWD system can't "push" their cars out from snow. FWD system can "pull" your car out from snow, and AWD Quattro can both "pull" and "push" your car out from the snow.
I totally agree the shifter is rubbery and the take-up is way too high. Actually I test drove the 02 1.8T and the clutch was not as high as the 01 already. In the pre-01's the take-up point is literally 2mm below its normal resting position. I can find one good thing about it though.....it makes shifting as fast as the blink of an eye once you practise "mad rowing skills" LOL. European Delivery is definitely something they should do just like the BMWs. And definitely, paint the lowers to match the other parts of the car. It looks especially bad in the rear quarters.
However there are some things I'd like to say about your cons and suggestions. About the pricey options, go and try to price out a BMW and even a Mercedes. NOTHING is standard.....in the pre-02 BMW 3 series even a CD player or cruise control or auto climate control is an option. They finally figure out Audi is offering an in-dash 6 CD player as standard so BMW figured out they better add in a single dash CD player as standard. About xenons being standard, even the Mercedes fastest CLK55 doesn't offer it as standard and charge them as a $850 option to the expensive price. I guess I prefer Audi doesn't charge them as standard, as some people seldomly drives their car in the dark and they don't necessarily need them.
Sorry for the long post. My $0.01 (poor after Christmas shopping)
Billy
Can't speak for BMWs as I've never driven one in snow, but have had a bit of experience with rear wheel drive Volvos, Pontiac station wagons, Expeditions, and Suburbans in snow/ice conditions. I'll take a vehicle equipped with the right tires for the job over one wearing the wrong rubber (i.e., summer tires in the white stuff). That said, obviously Quattro with snows would be the ultimate. BTW when I used to live up in northern climates the majority of vehicles I saw in the ditch were 4-wheel drive SUVs. The problem they had was not in going but rather trying to stop given how much traction was available.
Maybe VAG headlights have improved in the past couple of years, but they used to be pretty weak at lighting up the road. My thought on xenon is they are safety features and that by equipping all vehicles the price should come down (economies of scale). My guess is that with-in two or three years they will be standard on the majority of vehicles sold, much like anti-lock brakes are today.
I agree that BMW and Mercedes are expensive to option in the U.S., but the A4 I test drove hit $38,400 and still had a couple of things that could have been added. If I could have found a 3.0Q with leatherette, heated seats, xenon, and sports suspension I might have tried to convince the wife it was a better deal. As it is we're reaching the limit of what we want to spend on a vehicle.
Maybe in two or three years I'll find a 2002 A4 Avant lease return and buy one as part of the certified pre-owned program. Note to MarkinCincinati: if you get one please post when your lease is up as I'm sure it will have been immaculately kept and cared for. If only everyone that leased vehicles took as much care with them as you do I'd be more inclined to buy used.
I guess this post is long enough to fit in with the rest the A4 manifestos so I'll be signing off now.
KAM
Their third quarter update had them averaging 19.73 miles per gallon. They spent $290.33 for the 15,000 mile service and then another $26.57 for windshield wiper blades. I mention this because that money along with the money spent on previous and future service visits would not have been spent had it been an Audi and thus could otherwise have been spent earlier on for additional options.
During the day, when it's all light outside, it feels like i can't see clearly through the front windshield. Almost as if the windshield is distorted or something. Does anyone know what i'm talking about?
If it were me, I'd go to the dealer and show the service writer both my distorted windshield and the non-distorted windshield of one of a new A4 on their lot and then ask that it be replaced.
but in the upper portion of the windshield...it just feels like i can't completely focus..
it's not my eyes...cause it's fine in my other car. ....
Why do people who are already spending $30K and up on a car skimp on safety features? Bose stereos, sport suspensions, leather interiors, etc. are nice but none of them will save your life or that of a loved one. The first options I want are those that will make a crash more survivable, or better yet, help me avoid one.
The single best reason to buy an Audi is quattro, and I view it as primarily a safety feature. It was also a plus for me that the Audi surrounds you with more airbags than you find on the floor of the US Senate. After trying Xenon vs regular halogen I was sold on the brighter bulbs as well. End of rant.
Merry Christmas, Hannukah, Solstice, and Festivus to all!
Rick
I don't know ...just a thought.
--'rocco
*lol* ...hopefully I'm remembering correctly because I'd hate to be offending anyone if it happens to be their religious celebration!
--'rocco
Only AutoWeek I've seen is their write-ups on their web site regarding quarterly updates. Given that the IS300 accident happened during a "major snow storm" with the summer tires on, I'm not sure it wouldn't have happened with any other vehicle running the wrong kind of rubber for the conditions. Why I've even seen a few post either here or on VWVortex regarding how poorly an Audi Quattro handled with summer tires on snow/ice.
This is not to say Quattro isn't an advantage in rain or snow. I'm a big believer in it and hope to have it in the next vehicle I buy for myself. I'll probably just need to save up a little more money next go round and time my buying decision as not to coincide with the release of the vehicle I’m interested in (too difficult to get dealers to budge off MSRP).
I was trying to keep the 'accident', 'the ruined tire and rim due to a pothole hit', the loose and cracked parts, and that kind of stuff out of the discussion.
I really think you're going to love your Lexus. If it were me though, I'd keep it garaged during those Colorado Winter storms.
how often would i use xenons....everyday
how often would i use bose......everyday
how often would i use quattro...everyday
how often would i use sunroof...everyday w/ sun
how often would i use heated seats...everyday it was cold
would front airbags save me? yes.
would front side airbags save me? yes.
would side curtain airbags save me? yes.
does sports package help me any? no..but it looks too cool not to have.
would rear side airbags save me? Never...I wouldn't be in the backseat of my car ever...at least not when the car is in motion.
how often do I have more than 1 extra passenger? RARELY.
Is my A4 going to be the people mover of my family which so far only consists of my wife and I? NO. ...bought the huge maxima for the people mover.
what does this all mean to me? I don't need rear side airbags.
HOWEVER...if you're needs consists of consistently carrying loved ones in the back seat....I too wouldn't have to think about it for one second. Of course i'd get rear sides too...
but...you can't criticize someone for their decision not to get rear sides airbags when you don't know their needs. If I were you, and had a daughter that sits back there even a little...I'd get them. But for single people, or people without kids...IT'S NOT NECESSARY!
that's my opinion.
At 65k miles, the 1.8T just DIED on the road. Problem was found to be a timing belt tensioner, that had destroyed the timing belt, that caused the engine to sieze and die. The car had had all regular maintenance at dealer. Timing belt was recently inspected, and only supposed to be replaced at 90k miles. Total cost for repair is $8k+.
This is OUTRAGEOUS!
Apparently, the tensioner is a known issue, to the point that the replacement tensioner is a redesigned part. However, Audi of America REFUSES to accept any responsibility for the blown engine. Although I like the cars, I expect that if I pay the ultra-high maintenance fees ($700 for a lousy 60k mile service) and follow all factory maintenance schedules, that the car won't self destruct. Whats upsetting is that Audi obviously KNOWS this part is defective, otherwise they would not have redesigned it, yet they refuse to issue a recall.
A shame, I really liked quattro, I just cannot buy from a company that refuses to stand behind its name.
Just because a part is redesigned does not mean that the original is defective. The original part may function just fine yet, a redesigned part may just work a bit better.
I obviously don't have all the information here, but it seems to me that if the belt was "recently inspected" maybe your problem is with the DEALER (service provider). If he signed off on the belt as being in good shape and then this happened I would wonder if he really did check the belt.
I agree like all of you that the Quattro system is the champion in the snow-and if you include snow tires, it's a no-brainer; however, RWD vehicles will definitely NOT leave you stranded in the snow/ice or in a ditch. Could you imagine if this statement was true? The entire country of Germany would be a tow-trucker's paradise.
The last few days we've had over a foot of snow and because the Germans are very conscientious drivers they understand the meaning of snow tires! I truly believe if you do not have the luxury of AWD, RWD w/ snow tires will not put you in a situation where you end up pushing your vehicle out of a ditch.
Just my .01 pfenning
-nobee
Given that the A4 and virtually every other car in its class has a small rear seat that is not terribly well suited for adults, most rear seat occupants of such cars (mine included) are children.
So, in my case, the reason why I DID NOT order the airbags, was to better protect my children, however, if the “bullet proof Kevlar armor plating” was available, I might well be inclined to order it. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
'Rocco - Your memory is still functioning properly; Festivus is indeed the Seinfeld holiday featuring the annual Airing of Grievances, the Feats of Strength, and of course the Pole.
Rick
Nobee, I agree with what you said about RWD pair up with snow tires may not strand all the cars in Germany. But again, here in US, I don't think many people are aware that their RWD car won't do well with regular tires in the snow. Heck, a lot of people don't even know their low profile performance tires (FWD, RWD, AWD, etc) don't survive in the snow. I know the new 02 Toyota Camry SE actually comes with summer ultra high performance tires (like their owners will drive THAT fast) and the only time when Toyota warned of the high perf tires not doing good in the snow is in the brochure with little words at the bottom. I am willing to bet that people get the SE package cuz it "looks good" and yeah it may handle better, but again, what do you expect from a Camry. Do most SE buyers know they need to get snow tires in the winter? Probably not. Drivers here don't understand what their vehicle can do and how they should equip. They ride in big SUVs thinking they got 4WD and can blast down the highway at speed limit when snow and ice showed upon the ground. Sure, a majority of the cars ended up in ditches are SUVs, cuz they don't even know what "center of gravity" and "traction" is. They thought SUVs handle better than cars. Ignorant drivers.
Sorry about the rant. I almost got rammed by an SUV yesterday when the first daytime snow hit Chicago. That thing skidded all over the place and it ended up a couple of feet in front of me. I braked a little but there's black ice and ABS activated and I managed to switch lanes to avoid the Exploder.
Billy