Audi A4 2004 and earlier

markcincinnati · August 2002

Not that I know of, my 1997 A8 lease, however had a "money factor" (interest by any other name) of .2% -- which was helpful on a car that at that time had an MSRP of $70K.

My point about financing is that financing when it is "same as cash" does make sense and a lot of cents. I doubt if any European car (possibly Jaguar would be an exception) will ever offer 0% financing. Audi is offering a deal to all current Audi owners through 12/31/2002 that is "OK" $400 to $800 toward the first months lease payment (Audi Loyalty program).

And to be "fair and balanced" as they say on the Fox network:

AUDI IS (ARE) THE BEST CAR(S) I HAVE EVER OWNED!

I only wish AoA would try to make it "right" for greggsa4.

swanky1 · August 2002

Has anyone managed to get a copy of the dealers' invoice for the '03 A4s? A salesman has been trying to sell me one but claims they will not sell below MSRP. Is there any credibility in that statement (at this point at least)? I'd like to have that data to leverage my position.

gfelker · August 2002

I am considering ordering an 03 A4 1.8QT, despite the distressingly long wait (3-4 mos, doouhh!) Dealer has not been able to locate an 02 arround that meets my requests. My question is, for those who have ordered an 03, what was there arrangement with the dealer before ordering--did they put down a deposit, if so was it refundable, and did they negotiate a price for the car before ordering or just delayed that until arrival?
Thanks for the help
Mike

dolivette · August 2002

Hi-

Does anyone have experience using a child seat in the A4? Is there enough room back there?

lenka12 · August 2002

A'm new in a leasing. Does anybody knows, how
much I have to pay each month leasing A4 1.8tq ?
And whats means with a plain english :
" I was at the dealer in San Francisco last Saturday and they quoted me a 3 yr residual of 58% on a 2002 A4 1.8tq 5-speed, so I would have to say that 55% is not the best residual as of today (unless they have changed in the last 5 days, may have)"

marleybarr · August 2002

The only individuals that know the true price of a new Audi are the sales manager and the owner of the dealership, IMO.

The salesman probably has a "range" and a general idea of "the bottom line" of the vehicle, but not the exact "dealer invoice" cost.

I believe that "showing the customer the invoice" is an incredible gimmick to make you feel good about what you are paying for that new Audi. You can go on the Internet, and check Edmonds, and other sources.... these are just guides to give you a gereral idea of what tp pay for the car.

I always hear..." the salesman said this is what we have into the car,etc. etc." Could the salesman tell me what is the overhead for operating this dealership? Does he know everyone else's salary?

I believe that a car dealer is like most other businesses w/ many employees. Only the top management/owners know exactly what expenses/profits are!

We can research new Audi prices only to a point, I believe the actual cost from manufacturer to dealer is one of the best kept secrets. We , the retail car buying public, would probably be shocked if we knew how much profit the manufacturer and the dealer net on every sale of a new Audi! We would probably also be shocked as to what their overhead amounts to per sale as well!

tiredofmanual · August 2002

Marley, I think you're worrying a little too much about the dealerships profits on the car. Do your research on Edmunds and others and get a decent idea of the costs of the car. Then take a test drive and decide whether you're comfortable paying that and if the car is worth that. If yes, then the buying process is simple and stress-free. Who cares if the dealer made thousands if you are happy with the car and the price you paid.

Lenka, you need to know the money factor along with the residual, term, and selling price to know what the monthly payment on a lease will be. With a 58% residual though, I would bet that as long as you have good credit, your monthly payment for 3 years/15,000 miles will be in the $450/month range, give or take $50.

marleybarr · August 2002

Pertaining to tiredofmanual's comment about dealer profit, I'm not concerned about the dealer's or manufacturer's net on sales at all. My point is that the connection between dealer/manufacturer is so secretive and full of rebates, incentives, buy-backs, etc. that the car-purchasing public will never know the "true" so-called "wholesale" cost of that new Audi no matter how much research you do or how many "invoices" the salesman shows you!

I agree however, that you simply do your homework and get the best deal you can on the car that satisfies you the most.

I don't go through life worried what the seller paid for any item I'm interested in , just what is my best competitive purchase price?

andys120 · August 2002

With the holdbacks and incentives and bonuses the "invoice" tells only a part of the story, not the true wholesale price. Best to shop around and try to make competition work for you in driving the price down.

There being fewer Audi dealers than those of other makes, I imagine the margins are better on each car than some comparable makes.

greggsa4 · August 2002

I HAD A CAR SEAT IN THE BACK SEAT OF MY A4. YES IT FITS BUT THE FRONT SEATS WOULD NOT GO ALL THE WAY BACK. THE ROOF IS A LITTLE LOW AND MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT THE CHILD IN AND OUT OF THE CAR. I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU.

schwitzer1 · August 2002

I have a forward-facing child seat in there right now. It's fine. A rear-facing infant seat might be a little bit more difficult, unless you put it in the middle (which you should, anyway).

gfelker · August 2002

Am in the process of negotiating on a 2003 1.8 A4 Quattro with automatic, dolphin grey, premium and cold weather, 16" all season wheels, no bose, no xenon. MSRP with destination fee is 31635.

Dealer offered 30844+ttl+doc fee of $279, which seems like reasonable (I read elsewhere that most new 03 1.8s are selling from 500-1000 off MSRP), except the doc fee seems ridiculously high?
Any thoughts?

dtwleungnyc · August 2002

Sounds about what I paid also. But let me put it this way, instead of looking at each line item. Just look at the final total price, if this price is acceptable and reasonable to you, then you shouldn't worry about how the dealer comes up with the numbers. IMHO of course.

dl7265 · August 2002

i was suprised to see so many '03 on the lot allready. i didnt talk any pricing but drove the on 5 speed they had a , FWD 1.8T. Not my choice but not bad. The new premium package with leather is a good deal . I was told it will increase later by $400 and add power driver seat and lumbar. I just noticd the 03 omitted the lumbar.

btw Dolphin grey was my 1st choice also.

DL

markymark4 · August 2002

From Philly area:
I have a quote for a 2002 3.0 CVT for $34170 from an MSRP of $36,500. Is this a fair offer? Includes metallic paint, Preferred & Premium Packages, Heated Seats, Xenons, Premo Bose & Ski Sack.

Another dealer is offering a 48 month lease for a 2003 3.0 CVT (same options at above) for $509 with $1200 for inception. Any thoughts on this? I have not been able to find 2003 prices.

Thanks,

dl7265 · August 2002

Funny how 03's are on the lots but theres no pricing huh ? Although looking at a 02 you can get a pretty close idea. Far as your 02 offer i think a few folks had close to invoice offers.

good luck,
DL

cennis1 · August 2002

I will be transferring to Boulder the end of September. I currently live in San Francisco and don't own a car. I want an A4. Stopped by Stammler in Boulder while out there finalizing the transfer last weekend and, suffice to say, was none too impressed.

I will probably only have a couple of days to get a car when I get there, so I would like to do as much while still in CA. If I can bypass the initial steps and start out with a good salesperson or dealer that would simplify the process. I don't necessarily need the best deal ever, but I'm not looking to pay sticker either.

Any suggestions?

marleybarr · August 2002

Edmunds came up with a price of $35,749.00 w/ options: preferred,premium,heated seats,bose,xenon,skisack,special paint.

You didn't mention the leather option. Your quote of $34,170.00 sounds right in the ballpark for that car.

andys120 · August 2002

Is was wondering who had the most mileage on their A4, my '98 Avant 2.8Q just hit 86k, it continues to give excellent service.

JBaumgart · September 2002

Ours just hit 53k - you're about 30k ahead. Ours has been great too. Just had to replace original battery last week - but after 4 years in Minnesota, that's not too bad.

ruha · September 2002

Hello everyone.
Do you guys mind if I join you with a question. I just left a deposit on my brand new 2003 A4/1.8T/SVT/Silver/Premium Pkg/16"wheels which MSRP about $28,260. Dealer have offered a lease for me with $1,000 out-of-pocket for 48 month/15K ml/year / $459.00/month. I just could not give up thet car, it looked so beatifull, but still not sure if it is a reasonable deal or not. Please offer me your opinion. Tomorrow I've got to sign a contract and your input will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ruha.

dtwleungnyc · September 2002

In order for us to give you a honest opinion about your lease deal. We will need the following info also besides the monthly payment. Residual values, money factor,etc.

And this is just a personal opinion, I would shorten the lease terms to either 36 months or 39 months. I am not too crazy about lease terms that long. But your monthly payment would go up.

Good luck.

markcincinnati · September 2002

Unless you are a low miles per year kind of person, I would NOT lease any longer than 50,000 miles. At 36 months, that works out to 16+k miles per year -- 39 months for the "averge" 15K miles per year person means that you are just about perfect at 39 months. 48 months could be quite expensive if you are a 15K per year person -- you would almost certainly need some pretty expensive maintenance after 50K miles, possibly your third set of tires near the end of the lease and heaven forbid, if anything "broke" you too could be broke sooner than you expect.

On the other hand, if you are a 10K per year type of driver, go for the 48 months.

At the risk of inviting comments about reliability, I let the above stand -- I love Audis, have had a couple dozen of them -- they are breathtakingly expensive to maintain without the Audi advantage (as are most Eurpean high buck cars).

cstowe · September 2002

FYI-
On Monday I was driving on I-10 between New Orleans and Biloxi and guess what passed me at about 90 mph? A new ragtop 2-door A4. It took me a second to realize what it was and I did not get too good a look at it since it flew by so fast but it was pretty neat. The coolest thing was that it had European plates on it. It was blue/blue and very much reminded me of the old Audi cabrio which is good since I have always considered it to be one of the best looking converts ever made.

crashton6 · September 2002

Do not lease a car for longer than it has warranty. If you lease longer than the warranty & the car breaks, you'll fix it with your money not Audi's.

mejjbishop · September 2002

If anyone is torn between the 02 and the 03 A4 3.0 CVT, do your homework. The options are packaged differently on the 03's where the price ends up being cheaper than an 02 with the same equipment. I had to order mine but I got it for 1500 off MSRP. They are pushing the 02's hard but if they do not have exactly what you want, price your options and you'll be surprised that your end price for the 03 may be cheaper than the 02.

ocuihs · September 2002

Very interested in the following packages and options, but what is Metallic/Pearl Effect Paint at $450?

Can I get 1K to 2K or more off MSRP if so equipped?

MSRP (silver ext/black int):
Base 33,340
Dest 660
Bose 650
CWP 625
Leather 1,000
PP 2,250
SP 750
Metallic/Pearl Effect Paint 450

scirocco22 · September 2002

Thomas-- The charge for metallic/pearl effect paint will apply to any color one selects, including silver which you are choosing except for the colors of Brilliant Black, Amulet Red or Polar white ...all other colors will either be metallic or pearl effect. This is assuming that the color selection (and names) remain the same for the 2003 models. According to Edmunds, no new colors are being introduced on the 3.0 for 2003 and the names of the colors are being carried over from the 2002 model. AoA has not yet updated their web site so I can't confirm this for sure at this time. I'm just getting this from Edmund's udated info' for the 2003 model and from what I've read at other sites. Can anybody confirm the color selection for 2003?

As for pricing, I'm assuming that until the dealers clear out most of their remaining 2002 inventory, they won't be offering the "standard" negotiated discounts immediately on the 2003 models. I've noticed that the dealers in my area still have quite a few remaining 2002 models on their lots. It never hurts to try negotiating to get the price below MSRP and I'd have to guess that you'd be fairly successful in getting something knocked off MSRP. Normally, you should be able to negotiate at the very least, 7% over invoice.

Has anybody purchased a 2003 yet who can give more accurate information?

--'rocco

scirocco22 · September 2002

I just noticed that power front seats are now being offered as an option on the 2003 1.8T! ...hooray!

...and also, a 17" wheel option with all season tires --interesting.

--'rocco

gfelker · September 2002

in response to the ? about 03 pricing, I was able to negotiate the following on an ordered 03
1.8T quattro automatic, with dolphin grey, premium package (PPX), cold weather, and 16" all seasons.
30700, which is about 500 below edmunds tmv for the car with these options and about 900+ off MSRP.
I was surprised by how easy it was--your milage may vary.

dapaudiowner · September 2002

I have a 1999 Audi A-4 1.8T with 39,250 miles on it. I have faithfully taken it for oil changes and all the scheduled maintenance services. Ten days ago my oil light came on. The oil level was normal on the dip stick. I immediately called the dealership and was advised to bring the car in to the service department. I was later told that I needed a new oil pump, CAM adjuster value, ignition coil and related repairs. The estimate is $2400 to $2700. The car is out of the warranty period. Since an oil pump should last a lot longer than 3.5 years and 39000 miles, I asked the dealer to request assistance from Audi. Audi declined. I then called Audi myself via the "Roadside Assistance" number. I detailed all the other problems I've had with the car to Audi and my disappointment that something as major and expensive as an oil pump and ignition coil is the latest to go wrong. It's been over 3 days and I haven't heard back from Audi. Has anyone else had problems with the oil pump or ignition coil? I've been advised by 5 different Audi repair shops in town that the oil pump failure is very rare and that I should keep fighting with Audi to get them to cover this. Has anyone ever had any luck in getting Audi to make good on a major repair when the car is just out of the warranty period? For the price of this car I was hoping to get at least 80k miles out of it. Thanks!

markcincinnati · September 2002

Reading a story like this one is always difficult. On the one hand, yes an oil pump should last longer than 3.5 years -- and yes with the "newly" improved warranty -- 4 years or 50,000 miles you would have been covered. Finally, yes -- Audi should make good on this and if it were in my power, I would "give you a pass" on this and "give" you the part and perhaps at least 50% of the labor.

On the other hand, a deal is a deal -- the car is "out of warranty." I realize it seems worse since you use the phrase "just out of warranty." And, indeed I have heard of several car companies, Audi included, who "make good" in instances such as you describe -- so I too urge you to keep trying -- appeal this to the hilt, i.e.

Now to the point that will probably at least mildly irritate you.

If an auto is so important and so expensive and it is something you wish to keep beyond the "free" warranty period, why not "insure" against the possibility of catastrophic cost(s) by either getting rid of the car before the warranty ended (and just keep making car payments and lease another "identical" Audi) or buy an extended warranty (which in some respects means you keep paying but on an older car)? You would not stop insuring your house just because it was paid for would you? You certainly can't stop paying taxes on the house?

OK, I know a house is not a car -- but houses and cars are often said to be our two biggest "purchases." And here in no public transportation land (Cincinnati) a car is not nice it is necessary.

The choice seems to be limited to "how you pay" -- a permanent car payment (i.e., leasing a new car every 36 months -- or less, which means 100% warranty + maintenance if it is an Audi and if you do not exceed 50,000 miles), an increased car payment (paying cash or financing plus building a "self warranty" kitty which you may or may not ever use) or a risk "management" method which blends your "ownership style" (leasing, buying on credit or paying cash) with an "extended warranty" (an insurance policy by any other name).

I guess the other alternative is to wait for a car that has minimal maintence requrirements and has 100% reliability as one of its "features." Well, if such a thing even is possible given current technology -- I'll wager that the cost for undonditional reliability would exceed most people's ability to pay.

I'll opt for "risk managment" either in the form of a permanent lease payment (my current philosophy on the subject -- at age 51) or an extended "high coverage" warranty from the manufacturer or after market provider.

You pay your money and you take your choice. Six of one half dozen of the other. Waste not want not. Every lining has a silver cloud. And a whole host of other platitudes. Somebody stop me.

Nevertheless, do keep trying to get Audi to "make good" -- my argument would be the "mileage" argument.

Good luck.

scirocco22 · September 2002

Mark (or anybody else whom might have information)--

Do you have any detailed information on the ALA program? I'm considering purchasing an allroad ...not real serious yet but just thinking if I can get a 2002 model for a "drastically" reduced price, I may take the plunge.

Does it work like a cash rebate where you're issued a check after the sale has occurred and they can verify that your're already an Audi owner?

Does it apply to a traded-in Audi or just an additional purchase? ...I'm not planning on trading-in or getting rid of my A4, though. I'm assuming that it only applies to an additional purchase which will be my plan anyway.

Is this an on-going program or is it just offered occasionally? I think I remember reading on the AoA web site that it expires at some point. How long has it been currently offered?

Any comments about the allroad? The only real negative thing I've heard is that it gets terrible gas mileage. Otherwise, it has just about everything I desire in a car. I suppose its reliability is not stellar and it will be expensive to repair when it's out of warranty but that's a relative statement that can be applied to all Audis ...or the so-called reputation that Audis tend to have.

TIA

--'rocco

JBaumgart · September 2002

We have an A4 and an allroad - love both. The allroad's mileage is poor in town, but is pretty good on the highway - at least relative to most SUV's including our Grand Cherokee which the allroad replaced. I needed a towing vehicle and was tired of driving a truck - the allroad is much more pleasant to drive than any truck-based vehicle, plus it tows great (up to its limits, of course). Naturally, it doesn't handle nearly as well as the sports-sedan A4 (cornering-wise, in the twisties, etc) but it is more comfortable on the highway, and of course is much faster - at least compared to our 2.8 A4. It's a very versatile vehicle, and I'm really glad we bought it.

Although I believe the ALA program is off-and-on, I would check with your dealer on this. I bet markcinncinati knows the scoop if he cares to comment. Unfortunately when we purchased our allroad I completely forgot to bring it up, and they didn't either (next time I will for sure!).

Otherwise I agree with your comments about Audi's being expensive to repair after warranty - if you don't have a cash reserve to draw on then an extended warranty makes a lot of sense IMO.

marleybarr · September 2002

I read that the TT will have the 6-speed tip transmission starting in November- I look forward to all the models getting fitted out in this way!

andys120 · September 2002

The 6-speed Tip will only be in fwd TTs at least when they're introduced.

jmad325 · September 2002

the other day the gas gauge in my 02 A4 3.0 stopped working. I knew it was low (the gas pump was on the display screen as I was going to the gas station) so I filled up but the light never went off and the gauge never went up. The trip computer didn't reset and it says I have 0 miles left while I'm driving around on what I know is at least a half tank of gas. I have an appointment at the dealer day after tomorrow. He said the sending unit is probably bad. I am kind of surprised at this problem occurring in such a new car. I only have 8600 miles. Has anyone else had this problem?

markcincinnati · September 2002

Is discussed on the web site:

URL www.audiusa.com

It is good through 2002. . . .

marleybarr · September 2002

My Audi '00 A6 2.7T had the gas gauge sending unit go bad, replaced under warranty. Obviously Audi has had some problem w/ defective sending units for atleast 2 years!

The warranty repair has held up with no problems for over a year at this point.

scirocco22 · September 2002

In looking at the AoA web site, I still don't really see the answers to my questions. They give a cursory explanaion but nothing in real detailed specifications. I thought Mark might know but I guess I'll take Joel's advice and contact a dealer to get all the details.

Joel-- Thanks for your comments on your allroad. You seem to be happy with it so far. Nothing you've had to take it back to the dealer for to get fixed or adjusted?

gas gauges-- I've been noticing that just lately, my gas gauge has not been reading all the way to the "full" mark after I fill up. Will I suffer from the dreaded sender or gauge replacement at some point?

--'rocco

JBaumgart · September 2002

On the allroad I had all four brake rotors replaced at about 20,000 miles - this seems to be a common problem. On the same visit they also replaced the transmission control module to fix the "35 mph wobble" which seems to be unique to '01 Tip allroads. Both are working fine now and car drives like new with no rattles or anything else to complain about. I might add that this is an especially good car to own in cold climates, with the front & rear seat heaters and heated steering wheel, not to mention the quattro and extra ground clearance.

turbo2pass · September 2002

I have an 02 1.8T with a similar gas gauge problem. Mine sometimes reads empty, full and way past full. My trip computer (distance to empty still works, though). I heard this is a common problem and haven't taken my car in for the repair yet. Let us know what your dealer says. Thanks-

scirocco22 · September 2002

Joel-- Thanks again for your comments. No rattles? That sounds good. My A4 has all sorts of interior rattles now so I was wondering if it is a characteristic of Audis to have interior rattles. I know Audi interiors have the reputation of having impeccable fit and finish and an A6 (or the A6 based allroad) probably has better interior workmanship than an A4.

Is that fancy suspension working well for you? I really don't need the sophisticated suspension for I don't plan on taking it off-road. If an A6 avant were available with the 2.7T and a 6-speed, I'd definitely want to go that way.

--'rocco

jgranata · September 2002

something doesn't sound right. if it's possible, try and speak directly to the tech. you need to understand exactly what happened inside the motor:
the main point that needs to be determined is WHAT BROKE FIRST...very important...it sounds like
it's possible that something associated with the timing belt is the real culprit to the oil pump failure. oil pumps do not break as a general rule, even after many hundreds of thousands of miles.

if you can determine that it was infact the timing belt or the tensioner or the cam valve, you
might be able to go back to the dealer and negotiate a partial settlement. has the car been serviced by the dealer out of warranty; very important. if it has, that helps you in having them assume some responsibility. had any work been done on the car recently? just some things to consider...jackg

nyccarguy · September 2002

A few months back I posted about a friend of mine who had the gas gauge problem with his '02 A4 3.0Q 6speed. I believe the dealer replaced the sending unit as well as the entire instrument cluster.

markcincinnati · September 2002

URL - www.audiusa.com

Copy and Pasted the following:

"Loyalty has its rewards. . ."

"Do you own an Audi and want more? More precision, more exhilaration, and an even more satisfying driving experience? Now Audi gives you more for a little less. If you own an Audi, you're entitled to the Audi Loyalty Advantage program which pays a cash incentive to current Audi owners of 1996 to current model year Audis and their immediate family members living in the same household.Your reward will be $400 when you purchase or lease an A4 1.8 T or a TT, $600 when you purchase or lease an A4 3.0, an A6 3.0 or A6 2.7 T or an allroad quattro, and $800 if you purchase or lease an A6 4.2, an S6 Avant or an A8 or S8.

Should you yield to temptation? Go ahead - the Audi Loyalty Advantage program makes it easy.

*Audi Loyalty Advantage program ends December 31, 2002. Offer good on all new and untitled 2001, 2002 and 2003 models. Eligible clients include all current owners and lessees of 1996 to current model year Audis and their immediate family members living in the same household."

What detail is missing scirocco22?

Our last three Audi's had Audi Loyalty incentives -- which also included no sec dep required. . .

JBaumgart · September 2002

"My A4 has all sorts of interior rattles now so I was wondering if it is a characteristic of Audis to have interior rattles. I know Audi interiors have the reputation of having impeccable fit and finish and an A6 (or the A6 based allroad) probably has better interior workmanship than an A4."

Too bad about your A4 - our A4 is still very quiet inside even after 4 years and 50,000 miles. NO rattles! I've always really admired the build quality and workmanship of this particular model (98.5 2.8Q - all options) - the best quality I had ever owned up until that point. My only complaint is the power - or should I say lack of power - off the line. And my wife's only complaint are the very poorly designed cupholders, which have failed her on more than one occasion.

"Is that fancy suspension working well for you? I really don't need the sophisticated suspension for I don't plan on taking it off-road. If an A6 avant were available with the 2.7T and a 6-speed, I'd definitely want to go that way."

The allroad's suspension works as advertised, which is to say great when you require extra clearance. In your situation maybe the regular Avant would be better, but as you say you can't get the 2.7T + manual transmission. I like the allroad's flexibility, even though I do not use it often, it has come in very handy on many an occasion. I also tow a boat occasionally and the self-leveling suspension, which you can raise when backing up into the water, is very useful. Also handy in deep snow, unimproved "parking lots", going down logging roads or private driveways on the way to the lake, etc. But if all your car is going to see is smooth pavement, the avant A4 or A6 - or better yet the S6 - would be the way to go, unless the 6 speed is required. I sure wish I would have gotten my allroad with the 6 speed...my only regret.

greggsa4 · September 2002

I have written a few posts on this thread. Reference #s 3994,3996,4005,4009,4048 and4049. Do these posts sound hauntingly familiar to you.

parker19 · September 2002

i need a new car and i am looking at either getting a new honda accord ex(no v-6) or an audi a-4 quattro with sunroof ... the difference in money is about $7000 ... the audi has nicer styling but i read a lot of posts on this site about problems with the audi .. far more than accords .... what is it about the audi that makes it so much more ... thanks

scirocco22 · September 2002

Thanks so much for you informative comments. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my questions.

Yes, if only they'd offer the A6 Avant in the 2.7T with the 6-speed manual. I may wait for the Touareg to be introduced if I can't get an allroad for a good price, but I'm hearing it won't be offered with a manual either; at least not outside Europe.

--'rocco

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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