Audi A4 2004 and earlier

ajayme · January 2003

We currently have a '99 328i (bought new) and a brand new A4-3.0 and I can tell you that there is no comparison between the BMW and Audi from a quality standpoint. The body, paint and materials on the A4 are head and shoulders above the 328. The reliability on the 3 has been just OK, the warranty is not as good as the Audi and the dealer experience at the BMW dealer has been mediocre at best. There is free maintenance for 4 years on the Audi, 3 on the BMW. Warranty period is the same. We have had little nit picky probs. on the 3 like the sunroof inside shade continues to rattle even tho the whole sunroof casette has been replaced 3 times. Radio speakers replaced twice. Shift indicator light on the console replaced twice. My A4 replaced a '99 A6Q which I turned in and the only real "probs" was the recall of the fuel sensor. Otherwise no problems. Would I get another BMW? Maybe, but with the products Audi offers as well as some of the newer cars like the G35, I'd probably look harder. What I don't like about BMW is their extensive "option" list. It's like buying a GM car-everything is extra. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents worth. Good luck on your decision.

nerd · January 2003

As you can tell from my earlier post, I decided on a BMW. Had the folks at University Park Audi offered better pricing, I likely would have bought an A4. But, the offer they made was vague and tenative. And, my wife's experience (aka no problems) with her 2002 325Ci influenced my decision. I ordered one from Orr BMW in Shreveport. BMW has increased the free maintenance to four years on the 2003 models.

I agree, the materials, fit, and finish are world-class in the A4. They are fine cars. The A4 did lack one feature that I wanted - power for the passenger seat to facilitiate transporting senior citizens. Best regards and thanks for your input on the A4.

skrisik · January 2003

I've been stalking all of you for weeks preparing to buy my 2003 1.8T. Thanks for all the great comments. Here is my dilemma. I live in the midwest and like the idea of Quattro for winter driving. So far I have only driven the 1.8T with FWD and CVT, and it seemed to have sufficient power. However, I'm afraid the extra weight of the Quattro system will be too much for the 1.8T to pull comfortably, and don't want to pay more for less performance. To Quattro or not to Quattro.....that is the question! Your comments please!

nerd · January 2003

The Audit brochure gives the following information on the 1.8T:

0-60 time in seconds - CVT: 7.8; manual, FrontTrak: 7.8; manual, quattro: 7.9; Tiptronic: 8.5
Top track speed: 130 mph, electronically limited
EPA fuel economy: CVT:23/29; manual FrontTrak: 22/31; manual quattro: 21/29; tiptronic: 20/28

This data suggests that the quattro does not drag down performance significantly. The quattro model with manual weighs only 150 lbs more than the manual FrontTrack model.

scirocco22 · January 2003

I was going to point out the same stats as nerd has done so succinctly ...good job, nerd. I've posted similar numbers for the B5 chassis a few years ago when a similar question was posed on this board.

skrisik-- Some of us are quattroholics and wouldn't have it any other way. quattro* isn't only for bad weather driving but also enhances handling characteristics in all kinds of conditions which inspires confidence on dry pavement as well. To me, there's nothing more satisfying than the feeling that I'm being propelled down the road with power to all four wheels ...all four contact points to the ground are being powered and can be depended upon whenever the time should arrive when it's essential to have that power at any of those contact points. I won't get into the technical aspects but for me, AWD just inspires confidence in any situation which handling is important and has the sensation of a rock solid, glued-to-the-road feeling which I never have experienced in any FWD or even RWD cars which I've owned in the past. If you live in an area where it snows, then that's all the more reason to consider going with quattro. And, as nerd has pointed out, the quattro components themselves will only add the weight of less than an average sized person (150lbs.). Many of us believe it's a no-brainer ...quattro defines Audi! --it shouldn't be any other way. Good luck and come back and post here when you make a decision. Nobody will yell and scream at you should you decide to go with FrontTrak.;)

* = quattro is spelled with a lower case "q"

--'rocco

markcincinnati · January 2003

There are three 1.8T quattros ALL with manual transmissions and sport suspensions in my company parking lot. One of them is owned by a guy who has the Audi as his second 1.8T. I have been in all three of these Audis and driven two of them.

The almost insignificant diff between a CVT or manual w/FWD and the manual version quattro is more than made up in the overall performance of the car (and this is assuming that you would NOT get a tip version with the 1.8T and quattro -- although it would perform adequately).

Add to the 1.8T a turbo chip (and make it a mild one) and the power and torque of the 1.8T becomes truly awesome (again please consider the manual transmission for maximum fun factor). The chip will be less than $600.

Of all the cars out there that you can get -- the 1.8T A4 quattro with sport package and a manual tranny is the biggest performance and safety bang for your buck. It is a "gift" from AoA -- nothing else (again equipped as stated) comes close. I know there are some Subaru folks who will probably disagree -- and perhaps from a strictly speed related POV they are accurate.

But an Audi so configured has refinement that the Subbie lacks and as mentioned, some of the performance difference between the Subbie and the Oodie are diminished greatly with that little chip. But no practical amount of money can get the Subaru to the level of refinement that the Audi has -- in mass quantities.

quattro -- repeat after me, quattro, quattro, quattro

keithp · January 2003

I have had my Audi a4 1.8T (2001) in the shop 3 times replacing the coil packs. This is getting old. Am I only one that has had this problem?

andys120 · January 2003

peterpan223 · January 2003

rguy2 · January 2003

Test drove an Infiniti G35 sedan and an Audi 1.8CVT today (they didn't have a 3.0).

I found the G35 seat uncomfortable and constricting- too much like a cockpit.

I liked the Audi much better.

Any thoughts on getting the 1.8 vs 3.0? I live in LA, but I plan to take it back to the east coast eventually and I wonder whether I should go for a 1.8 with quattro or 3.0CVT. The cost of a 3.0 quattro is prohibitive.

I'm still deciding between lease vs buy. Too bad the 2.9% offer expired. Anyone hear of any new offers coming up? I can wait several months so time is not a huge factor.

baapuu · January 2003

Wierd - I live in LA but plan to move to Boston this year and was contemplating between the G35 and A4 1.8T quattro earlier this month. I went with the 1.8T quattro. Audi has extended the 2.9% for 60 months deal till March 2003 as far as I know.

rguy2 · January 2003

I had not heard that the low finance rate was extended. At least, the sales guy I spoke to hadn't heard about it.

Do you mind if I ask where you bought your car and if you were able to negotiate the price much?

Did you consider the 3.0 at all?

baapuu · January 2003

I saw it in the Edmunds 'Incentives and Rebates' section. Doesn't appear to be on the AudiUSA website yet.

Quattro was non-negotiable for me, and like you I found the loaded 3.0 quattro to be too expensive (more than the base A6).

You can get an A6 at invoice (or even a little less), but deals on the A4 are less generous. I managed to negotiate down to $1500 below MSRP, but had to add $250 to the final price to get it shipped from the San Francisco dealer who had the only car with the color and options I wanted.

mcmuney · January 2003

I picked up my 3.0CVT this past October and took advantage of the 2.9%. For me, I had to go with the 3.0. All of my cars had been V6 and the 1.8 just didn't work for me. It was a bit expensive, but it was either 3.0 or nothing at all. I didn't go with the Quattro, because I didn't feel that the quattro would be necessary living in LA, but if you are planning to move to the East coast, I'd recommend it.

If you want a great deal, go to Bevery Hills Audi. The sales guy offered me the 3.0 at $800 above invoice, which was the lowest profit margin that I found. But I ended up buying elsewhere because, at the time, the 2.9% offer was expiring on that day and the BH Audi salesman didn't get back to me on time. Plus, other circumstances required me to buy either on that day or not at all. So, I paid, I think $1100 above invoice at a different dealership.

seth_latimer · January 2003

Mabey I'm simple the most unlucky guy in the world but I've managed to screw up my two of my 17" sport rims on my 2001 A4. Both are bent, the first from a blown tire on the freeway, and the second I think from a huge pothole I couldn't avoid, which made my tire go flat this evening

. Does ANYONE have an idea where I can get another OEM rim to match without costing me top dollar? They are soooo expensive from the dealer and it will kill me to pay for them! Also, is it possible to fix a bent rim? Please share!

seth

lauk0dg · January 2003

Go to www.audiworld.com and post on both the B5 A4 board and the tire/wheel board there. Let the guys know your location and some of the local guys can suggest some good local wheel repair shops.

Billy

markcincinnati · January 2003

I hit a pot hole in Kentucky. I noted where the pot hole was, specifically. I wrote a detailed letter to the Kentucky state highway department.

They sent me $250 which covered my deductible.

I made a claim on my comprehensive (I think it was that, perhaps it was collision) insurance and got a new Audi A8 17" wheel, which, as I recall was breathtakingly expensive (even back in 1998).

I ordered the wheel immediately even though it took about 30 days for the check to come from the state.

Oh yea, I needed two new tires, too.

Case closed.

andys120 · January 2003

where you don't have the temperature extremes of New England or the upper Mid-West? In over 20 years of NE driving I've never lost a wheel to a pothole. Tires yes but not alloy wheels.

vocus · January 2003

You're lucky the state refunded you. They won't do that here in MD. You damage your car on the road, that's your loss. Totally sucks. I know someone who caused $1200 worth of damage to her Cavalier when a loose grate flew up and hit the bottom (she ran over one end of the grate, and it wasn't securely placed).

seth_latimer · January 2003

Thanks everyone for the advice on rims so far...I posted at audiworld as suggested so we'll see what happens. I'm in san bernadino, ca, a poor, poor area with particularly bad roads...we'll see if I can get CA to pay for it! (yeah right)

diploid · January 2003

We had a few mild snow storms over the past few weeks and after the snow plows were through, there are potholes everywhere. The worst being the areas where prior potholes were filled in and now they're there again, along with new potholes.

markcincinnati · January 2003

I don't live in Kentucky but the Cincinnati Ohio International Airport, oddly enough, IS in Kentucky.

The law -- and this was on an Interstate -- says that the highways are to be maintained in a fashion that will not cause damage to vehicles.

A carefully worded letter, after I looked up the law was all that was needed. Now, I assume that it is possible that MD and KY have different laws -- but if you haven't made the claim, how do you know? And, the claim MUST be in writing and you must tell them where the pot hole is and they also must fix the pothole.

On the other issue, won't your insurance, minus your deduct. pick up the charge?

I'll tell you another story about hitting something on the higway.

I was following an old GM car on I275 here in Cincinnapolis -- as I was driving along, I notice the rear muffler of the car bobbing up and down up and -- son of a gun the muffler dropped off of the car and hit my left front tire. Immediate blow out, bent wheel, bent tie rod and bent bolt. Over $1,300 in total expense.

If YOU hit the muffler (or whatever) it is your fault. If the muffler hits you, as happened in this case, it is the other person's fault and even if you can't find them (which I could not, under the circumstances) it is picked up by insurance as if there was an uninsured motorist.

The thing is, 99.999% of people say, "I hit a muffler on the interstate" -- dumb luck, the muffler came flying off of the car and hit me and I told the story that way.

And I did it in WRITING.

Live and learn.

Hope this experience has some relevance and/or provides some help to anyone who reads this.

Good luck.

marleybarr · January 2003

Seth,
Just e-mail me-(click Marleybarr) and I will give you a list of about 15 Audi parts suppliers to price out the Audi rim replacement.

marleybarr · January 2003

Mark,
What car were you driving when that unfortunate accident happened?

marleybarr · January 2003

Someone posted that quattro is "useless" in dry driving conditions. They claim that it just adds weight and slows performance. Any comments?

dtwleungnyc · January 2003

Marleybarr,
Just think about this for a second, if quattro gives you better traction in wet/slippery road condition. Wonder what that would do if the road is dry? Heh.

andys120 · January 2003

about the wght of a small adult or a large kid.

If the slight penalty in acceleration bothers you you probably don't want an Audi in the first place.

Quattro gives a car nearly neutral handling on dry pavement and incredible grip and directional stability. If you doubt try it, you'll like it.

Quattro is the reason why nearly all WRC cars now are awd (even tho Audi no longer participates) and why most forms of auto racing ban awd as an "unfair advantage".

The only bad thing about q is handling is so secure it's almost boring to some and there's a mileage penalty, perhaps 1-2 mpg.

markcincinnati · January 2003

When I was driving a 1988 Audi 80 quattro (5spd 5 cylinder 130HP engine) -- it had the BBS wheels.

markcincinnati · January 2003

Quattro helps on dry, wet or snowy/icy pavement.

Yes it weighs a tiny bit more than a non quattro.

The main thing quattro does under any circumstances and on any surface is provide increased control.

Quattro -- and I say that as the proprietary term -- gives the driver many of the benefits of a front wheel drive car and a rear wheel drive car.

After going through the Audi driving school in Austria (which is on snow for the sole purpose that the exercises can be done a slower speeds than if they were being attempted on dry pavement), I can assure you that while the Audi's tendencies are to understeer, that they can be made to oversteer (which means you can set the car up in a drift or so-called power slide wherein you are driving by the throttle).

All the good things that you can imagine about a quattro are applicable to any road surface condition (wet or dry, that is). Also any bad thing you can think of (hard to do, I know) about quattro are applicable to wet and dry road conditions.

All wheel drive is great overall -- quattro is the best of the all wheel drive systems (that mere mortals can afford).

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

dtwleungnyc · January 2003

Yup, I hit a mother of all pot hole 2 years ago with my mother inlaw's car in NYC, bended wheel and major alignment problem. But I was lucky though, a row of cars were disabled, and some with the wheel actually came off.

marleybarr · January 2003

Well, I like the quattro system,taking rain -slicked corners with the A6 2.7T is vastly superior to my '98 TOY Camry!

I also hit a muffler (I hit it- it didn't hit me) laying in the road and it cracked my oil pan-the car had to be towed in. Luckily, I was driving an '88 Olds wagon at the time and the repair was only about $300.00. I shudder to think what an oil pan repair on the A6 would run!

baydog · January 2003

What can I expect to pay a month for a 36 mo lease (before taxes, as they vary by state) on a 1.8T quattro with usual options?

I'm trying to tell if an A4 is an option pricewise for me.

dtwleungnyc · January 2003

That's a tough question to answer. It all depends on what equipments the car has, what the current finance rate is, and the region the car is in. Just the difference between the CVT and quattro A4 has a roughly $2000 spread. After all said and done, most A4 avg around $28-$30k? But, if I have to venture a guess, its probably going to fall somewhere between the low $400s to the low $500s per month. But, to be honest, shopping a car base on what the monthly payment is, IMHO, is an easy way to overpay for a car, regardless of brand or model.

Good luck.

markcincinnati · January 2003

Go to the audi of america web site. Then, configure the car you want -- exactly as you want it. Also configure the car with EVERYTHING on it and NOTHING on it.

After you complete these three configurations, click on the button that says finance or lease or buy or whatever word they have on the site at this time.

Then answer the miles per year question for the lease, assume 0 down and press calc and there will be the number that will be the maximum you will pay.

Do this several more times, until you reach a level of comfort that you understand the effects of the option combinations and permutations on the mo payment.

Then, as long as your patience holds out, decrement the cap cost of the car by whatever amount makes you feel "reasonable" -- start with 3% (i.e., take the configurator number and multiply it by .97) and drop at 1% levels until you reach that number that you will absolutely positively lease the car for.

This, theoretically is THE best time to acquire a car (Jan - Feb). All the financing stars are in alignment, too.

If the car is -- for the sake of easy math -- MSRP'd at $30,000 and the lease number that is your personal MAXIMUM comes up at 94% of sticker ($1800 off of $30K that is) -- go for it.

While certainly no sure thing, this technique requires only YOUR personal investment of perhaps an hour of your valuable time. You can begin to get a pretty good sense of what your payment will be.

The differences between cars and deals and such are always in flux. If you do your manipulations today and wait 3 weeks to do the deal, well the lease payment may be higher, may be lower.

Early in the year, the residual value of the cars are generally higher which contributes to a lower payment. Later in the year, cap costs often lower, even though residuals lower too -- and this too can contribute to reducing the payment.

In the new-normal we now live in -- who knows. If consumer confidence is high and the war with Iraq or not "goes well" and it is a day of the week ending in the letter "R" and the moon is in the seventh house, well your milage may vary.

I have found, seriously, that the AoA configurator will/can arm you with the information you need to neither steal from the dealer nor be stolen from (not in the literal sense, of course).

Have fun!

rguy2 · January 2003

Went to the dealer today thinking I would put some money down on an A4 1.8 quattro that was on the boat and pretty much exactly what I wanted, in the color I wanted(black)..

Instead, I wound up driving off the lot with a model that they were looking to move.

The specs:
19 miles on the odometer
A41.8 quattro
17"wheels
premium package
Xenon headlights
Cold weather package
Denim Blue

Purchase price $30,000.

I think this was a fair price and even though I would have preferred the black, I think the color is no big deal. So far, a sweet ride.

tmck · January 2003

Congrats. I too got the denim blue but I got the car sight unseen and I was really worried about the color. I had always driven silver cars. The denim blue is an awesome color. You will get many compliments. The black may make the car look more elegant when clean and polished, but denim blue will give it the look of a car with a fun personality. Enjoy. Ya done well.

toast99 · January 2003

After 2 sales guys tried and I went home and read the owners manual my Homelink still did not work. Brought it in for service and they also struggled. Turns out the 03 A4's program differently than the 02's but the owners manual was not updated. Now if they will only tell me how they did it I will be set.

vocus · January 2003

I saw a denim blue A4 on the road months ago. What a beautiful color! I loved it the moment I saw it, and could hardly take my eyes off it when it was next to me on the road.

pbags · January 2003

thought i'd read thru the A4 issues before trading in my allroad for the A4 avant. now i'm not sure this is the best solution. have loved the ar when it's ok, but have had multiple problems, some not easily diagnosed. the latest will require 3 days in the shop to repair rear main seal leak. trans has to be dropped to get to it. doesn't give me a warm/fuzzy feeling about having my car dissected. after all the problems, i'm ready to trade in before the warranty expires. is the A4 avant worth it or should i look at the bmw 3 series wagon? gosh, i hate to think bmw. had toyotas for years and never a problem. audis have class and performance, but i hate living at the dealership.

ajayme · January 2003

Let me know if you want me to scan the page and send it to you as a PDF. It is totally different than mu old 99 A6 'cause the sensor is behind the right front bumper which is where you have to aim your garage door opener. You can email me at ajayme@earthlink.net.

andys120 · January 2003

I'm sure you'll find the A4 Avant better than the troublesome Allroad you had. My '98 2.8 has nearly 92,000 on it and I've had maybe two unscheduled repairs in the time I've had it, the worst cost me $600 (bad cooling fan motor).

I assume you're talking about a 3.0. The Turbos do have issues with ignition coils.

JBaumgart · January 2003

andys120, I have a '98.5 A4 2.8 with 53,000 miles that has also been great - it's encouraging to hear that your's has been reliable to 92,000 miles. This IMO was a good year for the A4 engineering-wise, and when I read about all of the coil problems the new A4's are having, I'm glad that the older body style A4 (which I still like better) is not afflicted with anything similar to this type of recurring problem. My only complaint is the lackluster performance of the 2.8 engine, but since it's my wife's car and she doesn't complain, I shouldn't either. <g>

Also my '01 allroad at 32,000 miles has been a very reliable car so far, with just one unscheduled problem in two years. It's been a perfect "family car" for our needs, and with the increased room, much improved performance (especially with chip installed) and towing capability I plan to keep it at least several more years.

bodble2 · January 2003

Has it been documented that the A4 platform is more reliable than the Allroad's? Is the Allroad based on the A6 platform?

andys120 · January 2003

Yes it is based on the A6. I believe the Allroad is essentially an A6 Avant (2.7T or 4.2) with an air suspension allowing for adjustable ride height.

kinnman · January 2003

The lease on my Passat is ending in a month and I'm considering an A4 1.8T M instead of a new Passat 1.8T M. On a 48 mo lease, with 0 Cap reduction (roughly $1100 total upfront), I can get into a Passat for $283/mo and the A4 for $366/mo. What's really tempting is for another $15/mo I could get into the A4 Quattro. (residual is much higher on the Quattro). I like the Audi, but is it worth the extra $83/mo? Here's a list of the differences I can see:
Better Ride, but less room
Power Seats
Auto Climate Control
Free Maintance for 4yrs 50k (how much is this worth?)
Quattro for addt'l $15 (VW must go with V6)

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

pbags · January 2003

Thanks, guys, for your input. I haggled with the dealer today over price for a new A4 avant 3.0 with tip. (too vertically challenged for man.). they are willing to sell avant with premium and cold weather pkgs for $36,500, including my '01 allroad ($26.0 for it--no sunroof or heated seats). I came home to think about it. Can get a denim blue, but i'll look at a sedan tomorrow to be sure it's the right color. i'm sort of tired of greys, but . . .they may hold their value better? The allroad is so plushy, and i'll miss the twin turbo (it's so much fun), but the problems continue and i think it's a lemon (early production vehicle for sure). let me know what you think.

n8rh8r · January 2003

I ordered a 2003 A 4 1.8 Quattro (black exterior/beige leather) with automatic transmission, Premium Package 2 (includes power driver seat), Xenon headlights, cold weather package and Bose sound system.

Got it for $807 over invoice with 2.9% for 60 months. The dealer charged me the base MSRP of $27,850 even though the Audi website shows the base MSRP increasing to $28,000. So, either he was somehow unaware of the increase or there really was no increase. I guess he figures he is making about $1057 over invoice, but it is really about $807 over invoice if the base MSRP actually increased. Either way, I'm pleased with the price.

The only problem is that it will not be delivered for 60-120 days, but they couldn't locate an existing vehicle similar to the one I wanted so it had to be ordered.

Another highlight is that I didn't put down any deposit for the special order (many dealers require a $500-$1000 deposit when you order a vehicle).

I think it is a good deal.....any comments?

JBaumgart · January 2003

Sounds like you struck a great deal - did they evidence it in writing (contract) even with no money down? That is unusual for any dealer to order without some kind of a deposit.

jmad325 · January 2003

Has anyone experienced their radio lights not turning off with the headlights and remaining on despite the car being turned off? The radio is also inoperable while the engine is running. This just happened to me tonight. I couldn't figure it out and had to leave my car locked but with the radio still lit up (nothing shows on the display) in the garage. Hopefully it doesn't drain the battery by morning, or I get to call Momentum Audi. I don't know if any others have experienced such out-of-the-blue problems with their A4's, but this along with my gas gauge and idle-speed engine fan malfunctioning within the first 13 months of ownership of my 2002 A4 3.0 quattro makes me question why I went with Audi. These sorts of problems are simply unnacceptable in a car like this, even if it was the first year for this model. The idle fan problem was even described to me by my service advisor as something he had seen on several A4's. I'm not sure if I'm too happy with Audi quality, definitely not happy enough to get another one. josh

bodble2 · January 2003

It's just that when you commented to pbags that you were sure the A4 Avant would be better than the "troublesome Allroad", I thought you meant that the Allroad has had well-documented problems.

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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