Audi A4 2004 and earlier

vocus

Is the car not driveable? I would think you would rather bring the car back to Baltimore (if it's able to be) and have it repaired there.

markcincinnati

If you have the time, go further to the German audi site and configure your car there -- talk about choices!

There must be a reason not to allow these to be imported -- probably parts and other repair and maintenance issues -- at least that would be my guess.

bodydouble

since it is equipped with the immobolizer?

lauk0dg

Or it could be that they want to simplify the export procedures......ship 80% of the cars the way they make them, and the other 20% of the cars customized, rather than the other way around. Dunno.....but there's an option for customized color choices.....that should be interesting if that's available here.

Billy

scirocco22

bodydouble-- Sadly the S4 doesn't have a "true" immobilizer ...no transponder or chip in key. I believe that it does have an engine cut off if the alarm goes off but thieves usually can disarm the alarm by the manner in which they open the door through the door lock. It's pitiful that Audi couldn't put a true immobilizer in the B5 series.

Billy-- ooops, okay, I have heard that about the nav plus being available in Europe. When I saw that pic, I just assumed that the new S4 here in N.A. would have it available. Too bad it won't. Thanks for the heads-up.

AUDI A4's BUMPERS EARN PRAISE: As you've all probably heard on the news, the 2002 A4 has made headlines by being rated top in damage resistance in low-speed impacts.

http://www.highwaysafety.org/news_releases/2002/pr120302.htm

--'rocco

markcincinnati

My dealer says that from time to time certain paint options that are not shown in literature ARE available if one knows the appropriate color code.

Of course there is always an extra charge, however.

bodydouble

The B5 series includes up to 2001.5 A4? So the current A4 has a true immobilizer (hopefully)?

scirocco22

bodydouble-- Yes, the B5 platform (or the chassis code for the Audi A4/S4 model being 8D) is for MY 1996-2001. The B6 platform, sometimes referred to as 8E (8E being the chassis code for the Audi A4) is the designation for MY 2002 and 2003.

VAG has long used alpha-numeric platform designations associated with the market segment (A=entry/small, B=mid/medium, C=mid/large and D=luxury/large) and generation (1=1st, 2=2nd, etc.). The '96-'01 (in U.S.) A4 is Audi's 5th generation B-segment model (as defined by European segments listed). The 2002/2003 A4 is the 6th generation B-car, therefore B6 platform. Ironically the platform designation for the TT, Jetta and Golf is "A4" --4th generation A-segment (small car).

The chassis code specifies the specific model since a number of vehicles can be produced from the same platform. Therefore the '96-'01 A4 is based on the B5 platform with the chassis designation of 8D and the '02 and '03 built on the B6 platform using the chassis designation of 8E. The Passat, for example, uses the same B5 platform as the 1st generation A4 but will have a different chassis code or designation.

Now for immobilizers, Billy set me straight a few months ago when I mistakenly said that earlier models of the A4 had full immobilizers and then for some strange reason, they did away with them in the 2000 and 2001 MYs. According to Billy, no B5 A4s had "true" engine immobilizers (chipped key with transponder). To my understanding, the current A4 (B6 platform) does have full immobilization complete with chipped keys and transponders. I've asked this before with no response; but can an owner of a B6 confirm this?

--'rocco

racerx2001

I will be picking up my new 03 Audi 1.8QM with prem and xenon tomorrow. I would have like to get the Bose, but the deal I got was so good that other dealers did not even want to touch the price.

I was going to get the 1.8 CVT, but changed my mind after test driving it in the rain. My old car is a Honda, and I could not believe how glued to the road the Quattro made the driver feel. I pushed the car during one manuver where I was making a U turn under an overpass and I was really whipping around the corner. Now I did the same with the CVT, and it handled the wet road well, but you really feel the difference in overall stability with the Quattro. I finally went the Quattro because of that experience. And I chose the MT because this car motivates me to be more involved with the driving. Which means I can no longer eat, talk on the phone, and write directions down at the same time while I'm making a turn:)

Overall I'm excited to join the ranks of Audi owners. I owned a '84 BMW 318i in college, and had a taste of German engineering and performance. I really missed it. My Honda was a very realible and fun car to drive, but I'm moving on. Thank you all for all the info that I've gathered on this site over the past months of researching. I'll share my experience with you all later. Thanks. You all are a great bunch of Audi enthusiasts.

shehzad

Would you mind posting how much you got the audi for, and from what dealersh ip? I'm interested in one as well, but am unsure about the prices that are being quoted in my area. If you feel uncomfortable posting on this message board, feel free to email me at shehzadms@hotmail.com. Thanks-Shehzad

racerx2001

Generally, good deals can be had almost anywhere if one do the research and know how to negotiate. A previous post (msg #4404) claimed $50 BELOW invoice on a '03 1.8T CVT from Royale Audi in Bloomington Indiana. A call to a sales manager there revealed that although they generally like to make 3-4% of invoice, regional preference for Quattro made demands for CVT's more elastic in the mid-west, thus much more price-negotiable. Another call to a dealer in Wisconsin confirmed this, evidenced by a lone CVT in a lotfull of Quattros. According to the same source, in the mid-west (edmunds notwithstanding) resale value of Quattro's is $2000 more than its FWD brethren. Think outside of the box. Can you para-dig-em?

Anyway, I'm in the south, and I opted for the Quattro, and after extensive negotiation, got a car that was about $600 over invoice for everything, period. One thing a buyer must do, and that is negotiate for drive out prices, so there are no surprises and the salesman can explain any legitimate fees to you. It is the end of the year, and the dealerships are looking to rack up sales.

Do you all realize how competitve this entry lux segment is? Infiniti G35 appears to be the rage validated by Motortrend, not to mention the benchmark BMW bogey from Bavaria. This is a buyer's market made possible by the convergence of fashionable SUV's, economic downturn, and (I mean) intense competition. Among the auto industry, this is a zero sum game.

On a final note, I have read posts from those who look askance at buyers who try to negotiate for the lowest possible price, as they feel that the low-ballers somehow miss the point of lux car ownership. But the relationship between a buyer and a dealer is generally a win-win situation, especially in the context of the intense competition among automakers. Not to be redundant, this zero sum game exists among automakers because a sale implies lost of revenue at other companies. Hence, the dealer, the particular company, ultimately wins when you make a purchase. Glib critics of getting the best price are probably 1) the idle rich (no one who really earns their money would part with it so easily) 2) people who overpaid and try to justify it and 3) the dealers themselves. I tend to go with the last group.

So, I think good deals can be made on individual basis. I seriously doubt my particular dealer will want to give a deal like that away again in the near future. I was actually made aware of that.

markcincinnati

The written word makes this sometimes unclear, which is probably an indication that I don't have a large enough vocabulary.

Getting a good price (who knows what best means) is certainly the right thing to do. Beating up a dealer is not. Although I am not the idle rich, I would like to be one, I guess -- at least until I find out what the duties and responsibilities are -- nor am I a dealer or someone who is concerned that I did not get a good deal.

I maintain that the entire ownership experience is more important than the price -- I do not maintain that one should not agressively pursue "discounts."

My dealer, who over the years became a social friend, indicates that there are people that are so difficult to deal with (because they hammer hammer hammer and belittle and "threaten" the dealer's personnel or write nasty grams to Audi berating the dealer, etc) that it makes it very difficult to provide an outstanding overall ownership experience.

I have seen evidence of this.

I have stood in line at the service counter at my dealer witnessing an "impossible" customer -- being demanding, derisive and just plain unreasonable.

My dealer sells both Porshces and Audis and basically will turn down business that he knows will cause a world of grief -- sometimes the evidence is right out there during the purchasing process. I believe I get better deals than almost every customer -- I do not have empiracle proof of this, of course -- and I also get great service.

My comments, previously have never suggested not wanting or not attempting to go for a good or "the best" deal -- I am however suggesting that we all have the right to set high expectations of our dealers and that they should have the same right to have high expectations when dealing with their customers.

Bluntly, I am saying that some people (customers and dealers alike) can be jerks. Life is too short to deal with them -- IF I WERE a dealer I would limit my exposure and business dealings with them if I could. As a customer, I will likewise not do business with them [jerks that is].

Now, let's go out there and get the best deals we can and also foster the best overall ownership experiences we can. Cars are, unfortunately, way too important here in the land of zero public transportation to have rocky relationships with their dealers and service providers.

billyperks

Mark,
What is the name of the dealershp you work for again.:)

markcincinnati

I work, salary and commission free (but I do accept perks) for Audi of America -- of course they don't know it, unless they monitor these chat rooms.

My dealer who has been berry berry good to me is here in Cincinnati, Northland.


Shhh don't tell anyone that I'm shilling for AoA

audibon

Since we know AoA and Northland have been good to you we are all dying to know......
What about baseball? :-)
And don't give me this I take it one game at a time cliche' stuff either....
Motoring along in my rental Neon (10 squirrels short of a full cage) while the A4 is in the shop!
'Rocco- not surprised that the bumpers have received high marks at all. Suffer from firsthand experience. Any info on '01 model year or just '02's? Later.
Brian

cultured_hick

So I have been obsessing about the proper car to purchase for the past year. Definitely needed four-wheel drive here in northern California for Tahoe skiing. Closely scrutinized Volvo S60 AWD, 325xi, and A4 1.8Q, and sort of entertained new 9-3 due to cheap prices with gmsupplier discount. I am frequently made fun of by my fiancee because of my obsession for stupid details on purchases (for which she's happy in her ring). My goal was to stay around 30K. Among all of the variables, each of the three cars I seriously considered has its individual pros and cons on paper and one could make a fair argument as to the reason to purchase each. It boiled down to what profile I fit and the zen feeling I felt in each. The Saab is better than its parental units, but certainly put together with less attention to detail when evaluating its plastics, buttons, seams... BruceC35 in the 9-3 discussion summed up my reason for opting away from the BMW though it is a very solid automobile. The Volvo, is quite nice as well, though once you add in the required maintenance, the effective price jumps 1500-2000. And although I didn't connect with the car, almost bought it because of the good sales experience at Turner Volvo, here in Sacramento and the infrequency of seeing the AWD on the road. And finally, the Audi with whom I've always connected. I went back to both local dealers (Niello, Lasher) on evening Dec. 4 with no intention of purchasing immediately. The first dealer had an automatic dealer markup on all of its audis of $1900--a reflection of their sales philosophy. So back to Lasher. Was about to leave, when I ran into the salesman with whom I had previously spoken. Drove the car again. Ralph(sales) and I stepped into the manager's (Patrick) office and I asked him what price I could discuss with the fiancee when back home. No BS...instantly said 750 over invoice. So easy, it just made me smile. Being well informed, thanks to the likes of you people on this board, and not of the sort that markcincinatti disparagingly described just above, I just gave them the go ahead and couldn't even go to sleep that night due to the excitement. Got more options than I intended, but as Tom Cruise said in Risky Business, "sometimes you just have to say what the __". A4 1.8Q auto (fiancee can't drive stick), premium, xenon, cold weather, bose, 17 inchers (all weather) MSRP 33,085/Invoice 30,450 (shown by manager and confirmed on internet). Paid 31,200 (without tax) at 2.9%/60mos. Just a wee bit more fun than the loyal and maintenance-free 93 Camry I've had for 10 yrs, since before med school. God bless her.

Please let me know where I might explore an extended warranty. They asked $2920 for 7yr/100K. It would have been an uninformed decision and sounded pricey.

Thinking of the chip. Any experience in this area of the country, and the "value" regarding the ratio of money:smile. I hear if done properly, it is not detectable by said mechanics.

Cheers to all of you above for aiding in my decision and sharing my appreciation for details. Please pardon the lengthiness of this post--hope it might help others in my prior position.

racerx2001

I picked up my new '03 Audi silver A4 1.8TQM with platinum, premium, xenon, and 17" from Roger Beasely in Austin. Since fellow enthusiasts are forthcoming with price paid, my drive out was $30,500. I post this with a caveat, as the sales manager indicate that this was under special circumstance. No, I did not "jerk" my way through negotiation because rudeness is inexcusible in my book. Let me share an enlightening experience. I originally shopped around for a 1.8 CVT xenon and premium only, in black. When I inquired about such car, a Houston dealer rudely told me they only have cars with 17" wheels on A4's. He condescendingly explained that according to "research" (please, I'm a med student) buyers overall demanded such tire configuration, and imply that I was odd for wanting the standard 15". Anyway, the good folks in Austin said it was no problem at all to swap them out. We negotiated and came to an agreement. The car I wanted was in Houston, however, as I later found that out. But instead of going to Houston to make a deal, I honored my agreement with Austin (Roger Beasley), the way I was taught. Next comes the kicker. Since I had inquired about the car over the phone with the Houston dealership earlier, they were reluctant to let the car go, and gave Austin dealers a hard time: Houston we have a problem. They said another person was interested in the car, and was essentailly biding time to see if I would go make a deal there. This really infuriated me. My Austin salesman (Brian) at one point asked me to call Houston to say that I was buying from Austin! I told Austin that I did not want any car from the Houston dealership, and leave that car there while I chose another one. At signing, Andy the sales manager told me that he still gets calls from Houston asking if he wants that car. The point is, I believe in honest, up-and-up deals. I think that comes through in my negotiation, and that is way I got the deal I got. Rudeness goes both ways, remember that when you negotiate. Getting good, nay, GREAT deals require Dale Carnegie-like deftness, and not bumbling swings of a "jerk". Demand a great deal and you won't get one. Getting a great deal IS getting the LOWEST possible price the dealer is willing to go under circumstances described in my previous post. I respect my sales team at Austin. Will I see them at cocktail parties or other social functions? Probably not. It is enough for me that we part the deal in a win-win situation with mutual good will. These guys are building one of the biggest dealerships in town, and like me they are young, ambitious, and willing to go where most fat, well-established dealerships are unwilling to go. As one Houston dealer told me upon hearing my drive-out: "(silience)" I called them not to see if they could beat it, because I knew no one can, but as a parting shot, an obscene gesture for the rudeness and trouble they caused. If you are a dealer reading this, remember this. Damage to your reputation due to bad customer relations can burn you like a wild forest fire through a single incindiary internet post.

OK, back to the car, which is after what all this dealing and obsessing is all about. WOW. I was driving home yesterday, and rotated my friends through the passenger seat. I took some hairpin turns and inevitably the response before and after the turn is "hey man, yooooooooooooooooou're..... damn, how did the car do that?" I can't remember being this excited since I got into med school after the numerous attempts. You know that quote by Emerson which he said that being well dressed gives a man a sense fo well-being that religion sometimes fail to bestow? He did not drive an Audi.

andys120

Today's the day that my '98 A4 Avant 2.8 passed the 90,000 mile mark. AFAIK that makes me the A4 mileage king of TH. That being the case I thought I'd offer you a run-down of it's current condition.

Bodywork--aside from a thick coating of salt and winter grime that'll be washed off Monday it's surprisingly good. There's a ding on the passenger side front door from a rogue shopping cart at Walmart (don't get me started on their piss-poor attitude about customers). There's a loose molding on the driver's door that I crazy glued back onto it's retaining clip. It's a little out of line but not worth replacing IMO.
The paint still has good gloss, few swirl marks and stone chips and no scratches.

Suspension--Car rides and handles perfectly and tracks well when you take hands off steering. Some looseness in tie rods was noted at 90k service but isn't noticeable when driving. We'll keep an eye on it and replace when necessary.

Brakes--front pads were just replaced. Stability and retardation are as good as ever. Soft pedal feel is a design defect of the A4/B5.

Interior--Leather still shows no wear, rips or loose stitching. I was recently told be a passenger that it looks like new inside.

Drivetrain--Engine uses perhaps half quart of oil
between changes every 5k and feels strong pulling better than ever as if it's just starting to loosen up. Transmission shifts are clean. Trans service due @ 120k (Audi doesn't recommend any? but I do every 60k) Tiptronic feature works with no problem.

Other--All switch gear and lights work as does the ACC. Door latch on right side passenger door sometimes malfunctions.

All in all it looks like 4Gone and I will be together for quite a while. Another progress report this spring when we hit 100k.

shehzad

Thank you both for your enlightening posts. Racer, on a sidenote, it's funny, I'm buying the car as a gift for one of my daughters, who's also in med school-- in Boston. I wonder, is it your basic science profs or the clinical profs that put something in the water to make Audi's appear so attractive to you guys . . . ?

racerx2001

I have been enjoying my car, especially these days in the rain. However, I have a few questions about the break-in period of the car.

Sufffice to say, it's very very hard to supress the urge to leap out as the light turns green, and I have been good so far. In the owner's manual, it recommended that you don't rev the engine too high or operate at "high" speed, specifically not going over the three-quarter of the speedometer during the first 600 miles. But my buddy has a VW GTI with the 1.8T and he told me you are not even suppose to go above 50 MPH?!?! I'm in this marvel of technology and a granny in an old Ford can smoke me? What do you all think one should drive during the break-in period? I know you are not suppose to (I read ealier posts) do monotonous driving but should vary the speed especially on highways. I have gotten the RPM as high as 5000 at times but I mostly shift by 3000 RPM. What do you all think?

Finally, I hate to admit this, but everytime as I pull out of the curb, I get this low to medium, clean grinding-like sound that lasts about 1-2 seconds. It is definitely not due to my shifting, and I don't hear the sound as stop lights or once I get going. The car drives well, no handling problems. This started yesterday, the 3rd day I owned the car. WHAT IS IT? Although I have not pushed the engine, I have pushed the limits of the all wheel drive on wet roads by my apt, mostly by going into a turn on neutral with some breaking. Would this be bad during the break-in, because I was thinking only the engine and the transmission needed to be broken in. I have been driving at about 70MPH on freeways. Please post any recommendations or personal experience. I thank you all in advance.

Shehzad: Your daughter is very fortunate to have such a generous father. My father subscribed to the Spartan ideal of upbringing, and although he is generous with educational expenses, such gifts are out of the question. It would be a great car in Boston. Boston is a great place to go to medical school, lots of tradition there. Tell her to becareful where she pahk her cah

Oh, BTW, should I get an oil change around 600-1000 mi to get rid of "shavings" of the new engine? Thanks for reading this post.

bodydouble

Yeah, my father adhered to the Spartan Principle too. I had to talk him into SELLING me his second hand Honda Civic hatchback when I graduated from high school. I dunno, maybe that's the right way to do things. You certainly don't want your kids to take things for granted. My daughter is learning to drive now, and I suggested that she consider the Focus (and that's with me paying for it) for college, and she said something like "Yuk, I don't want a Ford". I felt like telling her to start saving for a bus pass. But perhaps shehzad's daughter is more mature...

Guys, sorry for going OT

lauk0dg

During the break-in period, I rarely rev the engine to over 5000rpm and definitely I didn't keep it under 50mph. My rule of thumb is, don't floor the gas during the break-in period since that involves a lot more wear and tear to the turbo and the engine than anything else. I also kept it a rule of thumb during everyday driving (before and after break-in) not to rev the engine hard when the engine's cold. It's a shame Audi took away the oil temp gauge in your B6 A4.

Oh, you don't need to change the oil at 1000miles. Follow Audi's schedule, that is, change it at 5000miles. For the 01.5 A4's, they recommend intervals at 5k, 10k, and then every 10k after that. I don't know about the B6 A4's, but I change it every 5k just to play it safe.

Can you describe more about the grinding sound? Was it around 1000-3000rpm during light throttle? Does it maintain for 1 sec and then gone? And does it emit that sound EVERYTIME you do that? I had all of the above for about 1000miles from 25k thru 26k and not noticing anything wrong until it got very loud and went in and they found it's the engine head that went wrong. Audi replaced it for free. Not meant to scare you, but keep that in mind.

Billy

racerx2001

I appreciate your prompt reply.

I'll eye the RPM next time. As I start the car, it idles at 1200 RPM and then it goes to 800 RPM (is this normal?) and then I shift into first and pull out of the curb and always hear a medium sound even with windows up where it sounds like something is engaging. Come to think of it, it is during light throttle aournd 1000 to 3000 RPM, and lasts about a second. While I know human anatomy, you lost me on "engine head". Did they essentially replace the engine?!? I will keep my eyes and ears open for any subtle changes. Thanks again for your experience. I'm always one for knowing the truth, and face any possible unpleasant consequences. Anyone else with this type of experience?

markcincinnati

If you are leasing and will not keep the car past 50K miles, follow the mfgr's sched. If you plan or might plan to keep the car, my dealer says change the oil and filter every 5K miles and use organic oil or change 7500 - 10000 miles (oil and filter) and use semi or full syn oil.

My dealer is both Porsche and Audi and says that Porsches require Mobil 1 and 15,000 mile intervals -- dealer claims that more frequent oil and filter changes are both cheaper and better for the life of the engine and that using premium but not syn oil is just fine.

Said 200,000 miles based on 7500 mile semi syn oil and filter changes is "easy to do."

Also dealer says if you want syn or semi syn, bring your own -- they charge too much at the dealer. The labor (every other time) will be free as will the filter if car has less than 50K miles on it (or is less than 48 months in service).

marleybarr

I just changed over to synthetic oil on my 2.7T and I can notice a difference on the cold starts.The car takes off in a smoother way and the oil temp seems to warm up faster. So far, a positive experience.

lauk0dg

Well to my knowledge, they replaced the engine head which is pretty much everything north of the pistons. It's pretty much 1/3 of the engine block. I asked the dealership how much it is if it's done after warranty and the reply was, "a couple of grand parts and labor". It's not cheap, and if you spot it before the warranty's expired, that will save you tons of money. SOme guys over at AudiWorld, when I asked them about this kind of noise, said it could also be the camshaft tensioner that's loose and just need some tightening or replacing. Either way, hopefully when you bring it in for your first oil change at 5k, ask them to check the noise and throw out some terms like the "engine head OK?" or "valve gaskets OK?" or "camshaft tensioner loose?".

Just keep your ears open. I can hear that slight clean grinding noise with the windows up or down around 1000-3000rpm whether the car was in gear or in neutral. I didn't think it's a big deal, thinking it's "normal".....until one day at the Wal-Mart parking lot people thought I'm driving a TDI version of the A4.....it's loud as heck....almost like a Cummins diesel engine. The car was totally driveable, no loss of power. Car would emit no loud ticking noise above 1200rpm.....but anything under that, loud ticking noise whether the car is in gear or in neutral. Drove it to the dealership and they strongly advised me not to drive it anymore till they looked at it. Turned out it's some metal loosened up in the engine head (!!) and it's hitting things. I'm suspecting it's the valves that hit something when they move up and down. So eventually they replaced the complete engine head and problem solved, along with the slight grinding noise.

Let us know if you hear more.

Billy

racerx2001

The more I hear it, it sounds like "k-k-lunk-k" lasting about a second or so. I hear it better with windows closed. I can't really hear it with the window down. I have not been driving that much because I injured my left toe during a tackle football game recently and I can barely walk. But I can be seen limping to my car muttering underneath my breath: "gotta make it...to...the car...got to drive...it". Quite comic actually. The toe pain is so bad, I suspect that this is what gout feels like. The only thought while I drive the car is, maybe I should have gotten an automatic. No, I don't want cheese with my whine...

Should I take it to the dealer or should I want and see? The car drives like a dream, the way cars should drive. We almost have a platonic ideal of sedans should be like.

racerx2001

I have more details of the problem, but I will post it under A4 problems.

troyy2k

I take a lot of sharp, fast canyon turns on my route to work, exclusively on dry pavement. I rarely ever drive in snow or in rain.

How does the quattro system affect handling when taking sharp, fast turns on *dry* roads? My salesperson it would greatly enhance the "road holding" capability on tight turns over dry pavement, but I don't know if he was just trying to sell me extra options.

andys120

that is understeer in the type of turn you're talking about due the forward weight bias. The Quattro system's best attribute in this type of driving is it's ability to put down power coming out of the turn.

Knowing that you'd brake earlier going in but as soon as you hit the apex you can floor it and come charging out of the turn. I guarantee it's a lot more fun than any but the smallest, lightest fwds (e.g. Mini) but it might be as amusing as doing the same turn in a well-balanced rwd but it is more stable.

Hope this answers your question.

mcmuney

This might be a stupid question, but how do you use the 'repeat' function when playing cd's???

Thanks!!

lauk0dg

Mcmuney, I can't answer your question but FYI, for B5 96-01 A4's, we don't have the "repeat" function in our headunit, Bose or non-Bose. Sad but true.

Racerx, good call to move our discussion to A4 Problems session. If you want, you can email me and we can talk about it there too. Good luck on your sore toe.

Billy

affy

Audi A4, the model with memory seats and mirrors has a malfunction. As a selling point, the two remote keys can be assigned to two different seat and mirror positions, so if husband or wife open the car with their keys, the seat and mirror can restore to his/hers position. The bug is the right mirror can not be restored.

The bug makes this big selling point useless since you need to push the button to restore the position anyway. And it is a potancial danger since you are easily ignore the right mirror until you are on the road. Then try to push the button on the door.

I struggled with this problem for my new 2002 A4 3.0 for nearly 1 year, talk to dealer, AudiUSA and AudiUSA field rep many times. About half year ago, the field rep let me stop complaining and tell me it will be fixed in 2003 model. But now, it turned out it still not functional in 2003 model and I was told they just do not think it will be fixed and I should treated it as work per design.

It is horrible for Audi not to fix such an apparent problem for such a long time, and looks like there is no way certain level of decision-maker can hear customer’s voice. Taken from weijietang

B/C i am planning to buy the new 2003 A4 soon, winter season is starting again! YES

dlewin

I loved my '97 A4.....to a point.
I just sold the car and felt bad as its new owner drove off with it. It still looks awesome and is fun to drive, but the problems kept mounting and it felt like a money pit. Don't get me wrong. The engine, tranny, electrical, suspension, etc..., is all strong. It's the cruise control, ignition switch, cup holder, window regulator, trunk latch, ash tray, etc..., that's not so strong. Annoying little things that wind up costing thousands to fix. I couldn't justify it! We took delivery of a new Volvo S80 T6 last week and said goodbye to the little Audi. I'll consider another Audi in the future but the extended warranty is a MUST (same with the Volvo by the way). I highly advise it. These Euro cars are a lot of fun until the warranty runs out!

racerx2001

I have not been posting because I have devided my waking hours between studying and driving. The car drives like a dream. I sympathize with the previous poster about selling their old car. I just sold my Honda Civc hatchback to a really nice lady, and I thought she was really lucky to have my Honda, because I kept it well. But you know, as I was driving out of town to deliver the Honda to my buyer, and after having driven the A4 for past weeks, I realized how insecured I felt driving the Civic. The cabin noise was LOUD, and I could not pass and manuver like I thought I could. I also felt like I was in a tin can, a chain mail compared to the A4's full body armor. Of course I felt fine with this Honda before driving the A4. But the A4 is also soooo agile. Subtle things like the way the car door shouts heavy metal as the door slams. A great car. But I'm starting to think we do not really buy the car, but rather a company's slogan or symbol on the grill or the hood. We buy the image before the thing. We are buying a philosophy or a lifestyle, and these message boards provide us with fellowship. Yeah, fellowship of the Four Rings. Must...get..back to ....study.

bodydouble

We'll officially nominate you for "Lord of the Rings"!

audibon

Have had my car back for a week and just wanted to let the fellow WI and Il members of this board know that the shop did a fantastic job! If, and I hope none of you do, need body work done on your Audi I can recommend Foreign and Domestic body shop in Libertyville, Il. The quality fo work is excellent, service is great, and they insisted on using Audi parts which is always a plus. The work is covered as long as I own the car. If anyone wants further info or has any questions let me know. Safe driving to all.
Brian

markcincinnati

. . .I keep reading posts from folks who find out the hard way that European (and other) cars, out of warranty, are primarily only for the very very very wealthy. Even the wealthy, I'll venture, didn't get that way "running naked."

Please note these words, please heed these words (and remember I bleed the four rings if cut):

"I'll consider another Audi in the future but the extended warranty is a MUST (same with the
Volvo by the way). I highly advise it." -- David

"These cars are great -- but they can be breathtakingly expensive to maintain and repair!" -- Mark

Now, did David leave Audi because of problems or because he didn't have an extended warranty? In other words, did you leave Audi because you like Volvo better (when new?) or because of the bad taste and thinner wallet you now have due to the fact that you found out the hard ( & expensive way) that you need an extended warranty?

I love my Audis -- as far as I can remember all of them -- but I would be in the poor house if I ever had to fix one of them. Fortunately, every Audi was always well protected -- and frankly on most of them I would not have needed the protection, but on the one's that did need something done, well four digit repair prices can really add up quickly.

And, one last time, I have no evidence this is an Audi only issue. It seems more like an American, European, Japanese car issue (in descending order of breathtaking costs!)

bodydouble

You would rank American cars ahead of Euros for (high) costs of repairs?

vocus

I have a Jetta that I drive ~30K miles yearly (it's an 02). I will definitely be buying an extended warranty for the car. I don't want to have to repair the car, or take chances on it, out of warranty. No way!

dlewin

Like I said, I loved the Audi, and I can say with confidence that I will consider another....but only with an extended warranty. Yes, the bitter taste of repairs was a downer but is not the reason I left. OK, lesson learned the hard way....GET A WARRANTY! If I wanted to avoid repairs all together, I'd get an Accord and be done with it!

I switched to Volvo for a couple of reasons: we just had a kid and were planning to get a bigger car in about a year. Then I discovered the A4 needed about $3K in service to get it back into tip-top shape (old nagging repairs like the cruise control, ash tray, etc..., and lately the water pump and timing belt - which was compromised by the bad water pump, plus a brake job). So we decided to make a change now instead of later.

We considered the A6 2.7T but ruled it out since the '04 is a redesign and not yet available. The BMW 5 is too spartan, the MB E-class is too expensive, but the S80 T6 was juuuust right. We got a killer deal on an '02 that they wanted to get off the lot - $6K below invoice. I don't know if you're familiar with them but it's got the most comfortable seats out there, loaded with features, VERY safe, and with the twin-turbo 268HP engine, very fun to drive. It doesn't turn as many heads as the aforementioned vehicles but I've moved beyond that need (mostly). I will be getting a warranty with the Volvo and I hope it stands up at least as well as the Audi.

In summary, the Audi will always be near and dear, and I'll be back around when we shop for our next car - it just wasn't in the stars this time!

Also, I agree American cars cost more to repair. Not because of the actual costs, but because of the frequency of those costs and the severity of the problems.

markcincinnati

. . . American cars cost more to repair. Not because of the actual costs, but because of the frequency of those costs and the severity of the problems.

And I would add the frequency that the cars have to be in for service. Plus, with Audi anyway, you do get "loaner" cars and a wash and vacuum (at least at the 2 Cincinnati dealers, this is common practice for Audis in for service).

bodydouble

Was it a certain unpopular colour? But still $6K UNDER invoice!! You don't mean under MSRP?

tiredofmanual

Issues #2 and #3 for my new Audi. It seems as though the rear cupholders now require a quick, hard jab followed by a very quick release to pop out, unlike every other pop-out item in the car which only requires the soft touch. I don't allow food or drinks in my car, so I know it's not because of some sticky soda being spilled or anything.

I discovered that problem when cleaning the insides of my windows last night - while I was in the back seat I wanted to make sure everything was in order. Which brings me to the other problem. I can't, for the life of me, get these windows clean. Windex leaves a film behind that nothing wipes away. With the weather I'm having now, the glass fogs up easily and this is making it worse. how do I get my windows clean???

diploid

Glass fogs up - I'm assuming you're incurring the bitter cold too. That film is probably frozen windex since it's so cold.

vocus

I have a Jetta with the same problem. I can't keep the windows clean with Windex. It makes this nasty film appear, no matter if I clean the windows in direct sun or the dark of night. This "fog" appears on the windows, making the front and rear windows look like they need to be defogged, but even that doesn't take it away.

I think it has something to do with the chemicals in the stuff you're using. I would try some auto glass cleaner first before saying something about it.

marleybarr

If you would like really clean windows, go to www.griotsgarage.com or 1-800-345-5789 and order a catalog - this place has some excellent automotive cleaning and detail stuff- I have been very pleased the last 6 years buying from Griot's Garage!

dlewin

The Vovlo deal was excellent. I went to a local Volvo dealer in Scottsdale, AZ and got a quote of just under $38K for a new 2002 S80 T6 (with wood trim upgrade) in silver, beige, or black. The MSRP is $44K and invoice is $41K - so that's about $3K below invoice. If you check Edmunds TMV you see it's about right...but my wife wanted (insisted on) dark blue.

Unfortunately, there were no blue 2002's left in AZ, so I started calling out-of-state dealers. I found a blue one in CA and gave the dealer a call. He immediately gave me a quote of about $35K - 6 below invoice - so I jumped on it. The deal was very easy and the car came to my door in a couple of weeks. I was a little leary of buying a car over the phone but it was great! I'm thrilled because any other car in it's class costs $42-45K, or more. Apparently these guys can't get their 03's until the 02's are gone. It gives the consumer the negotiating edge!

tiredofmanual

And do my interior cleaning in it. So frozen Windex isn't the problem.

I'll go to griots garage to see if they have some interior glass cleaning stuff.

bodydouble

I'm not kidding. Newsprint apparently is good at cleaning glass. (Both glass and newspaper should be dry)