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Comments
Chances are you'll never recover what you paid out.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
An extended warranty is the same thing. If you might not be able to afford the potential repairs, get the warranty. If you take 100 people with extended warranties, the majority will not get their money's worth - that's the nature of the business. You just don't want to be the poor shmuck that would get his money's worth. This applies double when the car is expensive to repair, like an Audi.
I didn't mean to imply that a used Audi was a bad thing.
Other than the legendary $1,500 "pickemup truck" that you and four of your neighbors chip in $300 apiece on to buy as the shared truck-resource of the block, I cannot really think of any car from any country that I would want as my "daily driver" that I would risk acquiring "out of warranty."
All cars are soooo expensive to repair anymore, the risk seems too high.
Audis are full of techno-wizardry. The A4 has quattro, ESP, electronic throttle, extensive computer management, a turbo in some models, etc. All of these things can break. In comparison, the 1980 Dodge Omni I drove in high school had maybe 5 moving parts in total, 2 of which never worked when I owned it. Much less complex, and much less to break (and it still left me stranded twice that I can remember).
In my car, it started to develop a LOUD ticking sound in the engine compartment. At first I thought maybe the drivetrain hit something loose. I based that on the fact that it the ticking sound only comes when the engine is below 1100rpm and goes away after that. But when it's below 1100rpm, it's LOUD. To give you a comparison, it's as loud as a Ford F350 diesel pickup, except it's a ticking sound. The sound can be heard at both in gear and in neutral. However there's no observed loss of power. Drove the car to the nearest dealership and the service advisors took a look. They called me back the next day and said they determined it's the ENTIRE engine head that's at fault. Talking about some metal (maybe the lifters) hitting the head and the engine needs a new head. Translation: the complete top part and 1/4 down the top part of the engine will be replaced! And they STRONGLY advised me not to drive it although they were surprised that the Check Engine Light didn't come on. THANK GOD it's under warranty. The service advisor said it will cost a few grand, courtesy of Audi. I'll be out of town the next 2 days and they promise when I'm back by Wednesday, I should be able to pick my baby up. Gotta give them some credit for squeezing the big fix in their schedule. Let's hope the engine head is really the cause.
So I'm stuck with a rental Neon. So after having lunch with some friends who one of them has a 2000 Passat 1.8T, I got teased that the VW 1.8T engines are better than the Audi 1.8T engines. Well, guess what. She called me like 20 minutes after we split and she got stranded by her Passat. The engine simply quit running in the middle of Chicago. My Neon came to the rescue. Tried jumping the battery but the Passat's engine cranked but at a "lazy" pace. Tow truck came and they also thought it's not the battery's fault. It was Saturday evening so her dealership's service dept closed when the tow truck got there. I would be very interested to know what's wrong with her car. Will report for sure when I hear more. Oh by the way she has around 20,000 miles on her Passat, which she bought around a yr ago used.
So do I regret buying the A4? Not a bit. It brought me joy and driving excitement (not the Pontiac version). Will I consider selling it before the warranty expires? More than ever. However, to give it a fair chance, I will keep my eyes open and see if there's anymore big ticket items coming up before the warranty expires. I'm in no mood shelling out a few grand for another head, let alone the labor that's associated. I'll definitely check the clauses in the extended warranties and see if they include replacing the engine head, just in case I keep it over the warranty period.
Wish me luck, guys.
Billy
Good luck on the repairs to both your cars.
--'rocco
Billy
Rob
When I had the free service I paid $$ for every other oil change and I recommend you do the same. It seems like cheap insurance to me.
Just under 90K on my 2.8, it's goin strong, uses v little oil.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
By the way I've had my '02 1.8T Avant since the end of July and love it more every time I drive. It's beginning to feel like a favorite pair of shoes. And speaking of shoes, I'm researching winter tires before the snow falls. What's everyone wearing for winter? Hi, Bluetrane and Scirocco--I've been away!
but to each his own. I just put on my Blizzak WS-50s (195-55Q-15)mounted on steel rims. They do the job.
The black steel rims look ugly but purposeful. I wouldn't put plastic wheel covers on cause I've yet to see ones that don't look ugly and I suspect they'd pop off easily.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Yeah I change my oil also every 5k instead of the suggested 10k miles. My dealership has this free oil drain-and-fill service. You gotta pay for the filter and of course the synthetic if you don't want their dino oil.
Billy
Thanks!
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I heard that you should keep the factory oil in for the first 10k since it contained some unique additives. Not sure if that is true but that is what the dealership says. After that changing more often would be fine. I think changing at the recommended intervals is fine unless you drive under severe conditions. I use synthetic even in my 3.0L for a little piece of mind. I would always use synthetic in a turbo.
--'rocco
I was told to keep the factory Oil until 10K. Apparently the oil is 0W (weight) versus the 5w/30 that goes in after 10K. OK with me.
After that I will chage the oil every 5K.
Now the question of Synthetics?
It seems to be highly recommended, especially with the Turbo engine. What is involved to convert over to synthetics?
Thanks in advance
And all of us have heard your message - many, many times.
We really are sorry for what has happened to you, but it's time to move on. Continuing repetitive messages serve no purpose other than to annoy the readers.
Thanks for understanding - and the best of luck to you.
Pat, Host
Rob-- Unless something has changed, you'd still want to replace your factory oil with 0W-30 ...or at least that's what was recommended. If 0W-30 is unavailable it is perfectly acceptable to use 5W-30 but as far as I know, it's still recommended by Audi to use 0W-30. I'm not sure if the new '03s are recommending 0W-40 now or not but that is what many are moving to anyway. Most of us are using synthetic and as was said, it's highly recommended for turbos.
There was some question as to whether the cars come from the factory with synthetic. After I bought my car, I called a dozen dealers and asked if the factory fill was synthetic or not. More than half of them said it was and the others said no. I then called AoA and the particular operator I talked to said it was but others who have talked to Audi representatives at the same number said it was not. So who really knows for sure. All that we do know is that the vast majority of Audi owners use synthetic when doing oil changes.
There is nothing involved with converting over to synthetic. If you decide to keep the factory fill for 10k, all you have to do is to bring your own synthetic to the dealer and have them use it when getting your first service. If you change it yourself before that, just drain the oil as you normally would and then add the new synthetic ...of course, be sure to change the oil filter at this time also.
Good luck and congratulations!
--'rocco
I don't know how much it costs, how much oil you need to send them, etc. but I do know that there are plenty of these labs out there. Anyone use one of them?
My point is this: my worst Audi was a 1978 5000 -- I will not belabor the point, it was junk, after about 20,000 miles it was in need of virtually every part you could imagine. Undaunted my second Audi was a 1979 Fox GTI -- which after 10,000 miles required that I answer the question "how many miles per gallon do you get?" with the follow on question "gallon of gas or gallon of oil."
I will not go through the other 25 Audi's my wife, my Company and I have owned or leased since then -- suffice it to say the Audis were then and continue to be -- the most car I have ever had for the money (in many different categories).
I agree with our host -- let's not make this the cheese board, as in "want some cheese with that whine?"
This is a place to celebrate and debate these machines not decry the risks that we took that didn't pan out.
These cars are breathtakingly expensive to maintain and repair out of warranty. Be guided accordingly unless you are Bill Gates.
BTW, the Dunlop A2 sports are working out great!
Now back to the topic. They replaced the engine head, head gaskets and all associated parts and screws. It's all covered under warranty. Apparently the lifters (or some metals) were hitting the engine head and caused the LOUD ticking noise. I was also mentioning there's a slight grinding noise during LIGHT throttle around 1-3k rpm for half a sec and will be gone.....well it turns out that's related to the head issues. Now this grinding noise is gone too. I'd say if you hear that slight grinding noise, better check it out.
About my coworker's 1.8T Passat, her dealership is yet to check out exactly what happened, but they are suspecting a timing belt snap. Need to check and see if that bent anything inside the engine.
Again, I don't mean to set up a bad mood here. I love my A4 and man, it feels SO MUCH better driving it than the Neon.
Billy
_______________________________________________
Counterpoint:
I have to disagree with Mark when he implies that all cars are breathtakingly expensive to repair and maintain after warranty. If a Lexus, Infiniti, Accura, etc. do need major repairs after the warranty expires, granted, they will be expensive to repair. But how many do? Sure, there will be some. But speaking from personal experience and those of my close circle of friends, co-workers and relatives, Japanese cars, surprisingly, seldom need major repairs until many miles and years down the road. Again, sure, there are exceptions. The Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans I have owned have never needed major repairs of any kind ...but I've never kept any of them over 12 years or more than about 100k miles. Howver, I have many friends and relatives that have and again, they've never had any catastrophic mechanical failures. I know Mark has said before that he knows plenty of Japanese car owners who've had major troubles and I know from reading some of the boards here at Edmunds that there are those who have or are having headaches with Japanese cars but personally, I don't know of any in my circle. Just about every Japanese car owner I know are pleased with the aspect of the mechanical reliability of their cars.
I know I've told this story before about a friend of mine who kept a Datsun 200sx for over 250k without ever having a major mechanical problem. This in itself is quite a feat but when you consider she hardly ever changed oil nor had it serviced on a regular basis would make anybody aghast. Her next car was a Subaru Legacy which she put over 200k on but at least this time she changed oil occasionally and had it serviced every so often. The engine and drivetrain in that car never needed any major repairs. She claims that she was just lucky and just happened to get two great cars in a row. Maybe so but I've heard other stories where people really abuse their Japanese cars and they just keep on running.
Now I don't want to turn this into a discussion on Japanese reliability versus Audi realiability again so I'll just drop the subject. You all know how much I love my A4 and how I'm even considering buying another Audi (or VW) to keep it company in my garage but all this talk about how unreliable Audis are and how much they cost to repair and maintain is disconcerting to me. So best be it to just go and enjoy the driving experience and not concentrate on the negative aspects. Never follow ...and never be cheesy; let that be our motto.
--'rocco
--'rocco
Also, my personal experience and "belief" is that European cars need (or at least seem to need) more expensive repairs [more often] than Japanese cars. So 'rocco, I fundamentally agree with your observations and conclusions -- fundamentally but not entirely. One of my co-workers has a 1997 Acura -- it has repair needs and they are "breathtakingly" expensive, the body rusted "way way" early according to him and he has had body repairs for this several times.
This anecdote, obviously, does not mean that all Acuras rust out prematurely or that all 5 year old Acuras will have expensive repairs. My friend is in my circle of conversation. Another co worker has one of those "legendary" Toyotas that take a lickin but keep on tickin. And his car is a 2000 -- but the car's check engine light is always on, he claims the wheel bearings are shot and the brake discs shudder every bit as much as my A6's that I wrote so often about.
Still, like you, my intuition tells me Japanese cars don't need as much TLC and that they cost less overall to maintain -- even though my anecdotal experience would suggest they are no better than their European counterparts.
So, without predjudice, I will state that automobiles conceived and manufactured in the US, Europe and Japan (and probably Korea) will break, some more than others; and, when they do, they all can be very expensive (breathtakingly so). Moreover, I will suggest that prudence dictates that a car is somewhat of a safe bet to "overinsure" with respect to warranties (either factory original or extended).
Even if Japanese cars, based on anecdotes, were "perfect" in the reliability department, my personal enjoyment of my European cars (Audis for the most part) eclipses my concerns (and anecdotes supporting my concerns) in this regard. Audis are a BLAST to drive. I have nothing against a Lexus, for example. It is just not for me. To each his own.
So, again, 'rocco I think we are if not quite in violent agreement, in at least substantial agreement on this issue.
========
My allroad has 500 miles on it. I love it, so far. The shifting seems a bit "notchy" -- I can't yet comment on the long throws and sloppy would not have been an adjective I would have applied.
The notchyness will -- so say some on the audiworld forum -- decrease over time. My wife's new TT also with 500 miles on it, "seems" to have shorter throws, but it too is somewhat notchy. On the other hand, the allroad shift between 5th and 6th is super smooth and is still notchy on the TT.
So, the current answer is, ummm, hmmm, well -- maybe a short shifter kit will come in handy, but at this point I would not say that the shifting is sloppy and I hope (believe) it will get smoother over the next month or so.
I'll keep y'all posted.
Thus far the thing seems pretty flawless, the only problem I have had was the On*star module needed to be replaced since it's GPS function was "not functioning."
Just curious what RPM's your Allroad is running in 6th at 65~70 mph?
My roommate just traded his Civic in for a CL-S. In the 3 months prior to trading in, he spent $1500 on routine maintenance, plus replacing brake bulbs that never quit burning out.
Reliable? Absolutely. Cheap to maintain? Yeah right.
My mom drives a Camry (late 90's version). She had a ticking sound coming from the engine bay and took it in to get fixed. It cost over $500. Last year, when her car was parked in the street, a kid backed into it, hitting the fender. It was fixed by insurance (to the tune of well over $2000). She also is forced to change her oil every 3000 miles now to avoid any sludging issues. Maintenance and repairs have already eclipsed the amount spent on her previous car - an Oldsmobile station wagon that she kept for 10 years.
Reliable? Absolutely. Cheap to fix and maintain? Yeah right.
Even if you buy a reliable Japanese car, don't think you won't have issues or huge bills later in the cars life. You will, just as you will with an Audi.
PS - my girlfriend's 2002 Accord with 8000 miles on it has its service required light on. I'm feeling a little smug just waiting to see what the dealer says was wrong.
Interesting.
And yet, to me, driving a 200sx for 250K miles (almost 14 years [!!} as I typically drive an average of 18,000 miles / yr.) would be MUCH worse than dealing with (my perception of) the current Audi reliability. And the same goes for my Mom's year old Accord. A very nice car in many ways - and perfect for her - but it would be a 'penalty box' for me.
To each their own . . .
Cheers,
- Ray
Who can't stop thinking about 14 years of driving the same (most any) car . . .
The 4.2 sounds great -- the 2.7T doesn't make much sound at all (in the allroad -- but I presume that is because the allroad overall is so very very quiet, perhaps because its floorpan is 20% thicker and it just feels and sounds "quieter." The 4.2 A6 is/was sportier, but the manual shift in the allroad offsets that somewhat.
They are siblings, not identical or even fraternal twins -- they are close in feel, generally, but there are subtle differences that I am just becoming aware of.
The suspension seems simultaneously stiff and compliant -- less stiff than the A6 w/sport suspension and more compliant (some might say comfortable). I keep the allroad on its lowest suspension setting, but it still sits a tad higher than the 4.2.
The 4.2 255 x 40 x 17 summer tires, the allroad 245 x 50 x 17 all season tires -- the allroad's tires are quieter, but the A6 seems to have more grip (which it should). It is still warm enough here in Cincinnati that I don't think temp would be an issue yet between them.
The A6 had less body roll, but the allroad is hardly a pig in this regard.
Above 3500 RPM the 4.2 had greater "pull" the 2.7T pulls great between 2 and 4,000 and then it doesn't have as much urge as the 4.2.
The torque comes on faster on the 2.7T, but there is, ultimately less of it. Yet, it is no wonder that the 2.7T A6 w/6pd is quicker than the 4.2 A6 w/tip -- the 4.2 has "turbo" lag (called tip lag over on audiworld), the 2.7T 6spd (not modded) does not appear to have the same lag unless you try something dumb like 1500RPM in third gear and floor it (then it just sort of hurries up a little bit, like going from a stroll to a power walk, but not a sprint). However, if you are in second or third gear at 2000+RPM's it almost leaps forward like a cat who gets it butt poked with a sharp stick -- yeowww zoooooom, that kind of thing. Sixth gear can be used at speeds less than 55, no problem -- but it doesn't "feel right" -- 5th gear at 55 provides plenty of urge without downshifting.
Hey, its only got 500 miles on it -- I'm sure these early impressions will morph with the miles.
End of intermediate report.
The service advisor told me that the average non-warranty repair on an Audi is $500.00. He rarely sees Audi repairs for under $300.00.
Mark- it sounds like the 6-speed (Allroad) does make up some "slack" in performance over the "tip". Or atleast enough to keep you interested in the car!
WHich car do I love more? Definitely the A4. Which car do I think it's more trouble free? Definitely the Accord. Which car would I recommend people to buy now? It depends if that person is willing to trade driving excitment with some unreliability.
Billy