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Audi A4 2004 and earlier



  • Of all the articles I've read, yes, that's the rumor ...4.2 V8 Cosworth.

  • With the 340 hp output -- this baby will scoot!

    Pant pant.
  • Yup, indeed! I wonder what the price will be? My hunch is right around 50K? ...or more?

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    To clarify, I configured the 330i and the A4 as follows:

    $33,990 - BMW 330i base price
    $00,645 - Destination Charge
    $00,475 - Black Sapphire Paint
    $02,900 - Premium Package
    $01,200 - Sport Package
    $00,700 - Xenon Headlights
    $39,910 - Total Price

    $32,090 - Audi A4 3.0 base price
    $00,575 - Destination Charge
    $00,450 - Ebony Pearl Effect Paint
    $01,320 - Ebony Leather
    $00,550 - Premium Package
    $00,750 - Sport Package
    $00,650 - Bose Premium Sound System
    $01,000 - Sun Roof
    $00,500 - Xenon Headlights
    $37,885 - Total Price

    Total difference, $2,025.

    Now, just to stir the pot a little bit ;-), the 330i can be had for $1,400 over ED invoice from at least one dealership here on the east coast, which means that the same 330i as shown above can be had for $34,980, plus the cost of a plane ticket.

    Best Regards,
  • Shipo-- Invoice price on that 330i is $33,490 on a MSRP of $39,910? ...I've must have misunderstood something. And the A4 3.0 is FrontTrak, right?

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, I guess that I didn't 'splain my self clearly. The $33,990 number is the base MSRP for a 330i with no additional options. The $39,910 number is the MSRP of the 330i as I would configure it for my personal consumption.

    By the way, I am a former Scirocco driver as well; 1979 5-Speed, one of my all time favorite cars. I would *Love* to get my hands on another one and drop a 1.8t into it. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • Here is my take on the price -- maximum difference (if Audi configures the S4 with more "goodies" in the base price") will be $4500 to $5500 over a 3.0 with sport package.

    Look at the other Audis, while I grant that this engine is a big step up over a 3.0, I can only imagine a fully loaded A4 3.0 at $39K will translate to $43 - 45K as an S4 fully loaded.
  • Audi A4 3.0 $32,090 (quattro, 6spd manual) + $575 destination charge 221 ft lbs torque @ 3200rpm

    Light Silver $0,450
    Leather $1,320
    Sport Pkg $0,750
    Premium pkg $0,550
    Heated f/r seats $0,525
    Bose® sound $0,650
    Sunroof $1,000
    Xenon hd $0,500
    Audi Navigation $1,350
    Power rear and manual side window
    sunshades $0,375
    Rear Parktr™ $0,350
    Rear airbags* $0,350
    Ski sack $0,175
    AM/FM + CD included

    Total price $39,690


    BWM 330xi $36,385 + $645 destination (AWD and 5spd manual) 214 ft lb torque @ 3500 rpm

    Sport Package $0,900
    Cold Weather Pk $1,000
    Premium Package $2,900
    Bi-xenon headlights $0,700
    On-board Navigation $1,800
    Park distance control $0,350
    Silver $0,475
    AM/FM +CD included

    Total $44,510

    This is as close to comparable as you can get based on their web configurators.

    I don't know about you, but I still would have to drive them back to back to find out where the extra almost $5 grand is in the BMW.
  • Mark-- If the new S4 is that reasonable in price, I'll be one of the first on the list at my dealer. If I can get a fully loaded S4 with a 340 hp engine for 43K, I'll be in *heaven*! just better have my voltmeter and oil temperature gauges, though! :-P

    Shipo-- Ah ok, yeah, I didn't know what you meant by "ED" but shouldn't the price even be lower than that? From what I quickly looked up, the invoice price of the MSRP'd $33,990 330i would be $30,750 so add $1,400 to that figure and it comes to $32,150 + $645 destination = $32,795 (metallic paint charge not included). That's really not too bad!

    Hey! too! A 1979 Scirocco 5-speed is what I had too! I miss that car sooooooo much! I really wish I had kept that car. I should have kept it in cherry shape and just hung on to it forever as a classic ...well, classic to me but maybe not to anybody else! *lol*


    p.s. ooops, I posted this before reading the previous post from Mark. Okay Mark, but why would I be paying $44,510 for a 330xi if I can get, according to your speculation, a new '03, 340 hp S4 fully loaded for 43-45K? No question in my mind which car I'd choose! *lol*
  • audibonaudibon Posts: 100
    Billy et al:
    Hey, I don't know if you still feel the same Billy but if anyone needs a little more room for whatever reason :) then the A6 with the S4 engine is something to consider..You can still shift for yourself, you are in that "magic" 40k price area and the extra space is nice. You don't lose much time in the 0-60 sprint. Not that that is important. ;) For 2001 it was a tenth of a second. My wife really likes the TT full blown 225hp hardtop etc. but like most of you have found out once you test drive an S4/TT etc. then you "HAVE" to have one. She won't test drive it let alone get in one! Smart woman I guess. This from someone that has had Dom Perignon and understands those primal urges that have to be relieved once discovered. I still like the A6 with the 4.2 but no manual is a bimmer, I mean bummer! So, since I have no 50k laying around in the backyard in a mason jar the new S4 is not an option. Such is life. Later.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Well, it's a classic to me too. I just *Loved* "Bunhuggin" it around a corner or curve on three wheels. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • Shipo-- you bet! oh man! I miss that car.

    Brian-- If I were in the market right now, I would go with the A6 2.7T. I'm sure you could make a better deal on one of those than a new A4. Plus, it still has "my" voltmeter and oil temp. gauges! :-P Btw, *laughs* you've got a gift playing with words! *thumbs up*

  • that I wouldn't be considering the AWD BMW. That xi model really drives like a Cadillac, their sports package is not a "real" sports package (only mostly appearance items). From talking to people who know BMW's very well, BMW's goal was to create a SUV alternative in the xi. BMW built their name in RWD sport sedans and it really isn't interesting in diluting that reputation (this seems a bit ridiculous in my mind but this is from some well connected BMW people) It really isn't anything like a proper sport RWD 3 series.

    It's RWD or AWD for me, and I'd equip my BMW with RWD because that's what makes the BMW special. If I have snowy climates, then I'd drop the BMW from the list altogether rather than consider the xi. So basically, if you want a sporty AWD car, you have to go with Audi because the xi isn't it.

    So for me also, the BMW is only $2K more than the Audi since I would opt for the RWD model.
  • To clarify configurations on how I'm comparing the 325xi to the A4:
    (check my math, I've had a few)

    A4 3.0L Q auto tran.
    33140 base
    450 metalic paint
    550 premium pack
    1000 sunroof
    500 xenons
    575 destination
    36215 TOTAL

    28850 base
    2700 premium pack
    1275 auto trans.
    475 metalic paint
    700 xenons
    1000 cold weather pack,( for fold down rear seats & headlight washers. heated seats are a plus but not necessary.)
    35645 TOTAL

    I chose the 3.0 over the 1.8 because of the interior features available on the 3.0 that are not available in the 1.8, ie power seats & wood trim. The additional 50hp over the 1.8 is great but not that critical for my priorities.

    The 220hp A4 vs the 184hp 325xi is significant but again not that critical for my driving, both cars are quick enough for me to enjoy.

    I believe I can buy either car for ~35200. It has taken several weeks to get the BMW dealer in Anchorage to budge off of MSRP. The Audi dealer has been more open to negotiating and my feeling is they would match the BMW price to earn my business. I envy you owners who have several dealers to shop in your area. These 2 dealers are my only options within thousands of miles.

    Below is my old fashioned side by side comparison ranking features on a scale from 1 to 5. (my charts not formatting correctly but you should be able to figure it out)

    Feature BMW Audi
    HP 2 4
    AWD 2 5
    Ext. Style 4 2
    Int. Style 3 1 cockpit kinda wraps around you
    Int. Features1 3
    Leatherette 2 1
    Seats 3 4 (more adjustable)
    Eng. Sound 2 1 (hey it's got the BMW growl)
    Warranty 1 2
    Heated Seats 1 0
    Resale 3 1
    Reliability ? ?
    TOTAL 24 24

    Well, maybe I should flip a coin.

    Common sense tells me to go with the A4 but I am very concerned with Audi's past reliabilty history. The sophisticated Quattro is a better choice for Alaska driving conditions but it's probably much more expensive to repair. There is something about the feel of the 325 (I can't explain it) that the A4 doesn't have, but so far it's not enough to sway a final decision.

    And the wife, she's no help, has left the final decision to me. "I don't honey, I'd be happy with either one". When's the last time your wife hasn't had an opinion?

    Happy Holidays
  • Whatever car you get, when you spend that kinda cash (unless your a baseball player making more money than most of the players deserve...yes, I'm bitter Yankees got giambi) you spend that kinda cash, you'll be happy with whatever you get. Your wallet will MAKE you happy with whatever you got. You will automatically become a fan of that car. Heck, the 02 A4 I just bought was for my wife. It's got about 600 miles on it, and I put on maybe 150 of it...the first 150. Haven't touched it since. But...I'm became an instant fan of Audi.

    If getting the BMW will make you feel better cause it's a BMW with a BMW engine growl. Get the BMW. I don't agree with comparing the A4 3.0 to the BMW 325xi.....and I think Alumninum trim in a black interior beats any color interior with wood trim.
    Both cars are exceptional. Both 3-series and A4 are fun to drive, hella expensive, and head turners. BMW has a snobby persona in some areas, others there's BMW's at every corner. My home town would look at you as a snob if you drove around in a BMW. Where I work nobody would think twice.
    If you're hung up on price, and you don't think the price difference in however you're comparing them is that big of a deal, decide by which ones makes you smile the most. If the BMW name is what's gonna make you proud and smile when you drive it...get it. If the A4 does it for you, get the A4. If both make you smile, GET BOTH! :)

    (sorry if I sound bitter. I've worked about 35 hours in the last 3 days. I'm not a happy camper)
  • Shipo-- I just found your post about finding Mobil 1 0W-40 available for purchase on the net ...somehow I missed it earlier. Thank you! I searched on the net for awhile a few months ago and came up empty. Now I know where I can get it if I can't find it locally --so far, I haven't been able to. $6 really doesn't sound all that bad. I notice that Park Place ships it for free and there's no sales tax, so who knows, it might even be less expensive to order it from them than to purchase it locally. The Park Place group is evidently composed of upscale dealerships in Texas which sell MB, Rolls-Royce, Lexus, Land Rover, Audi, Jaguar, Porsche and Bently. This link doesn't work?:

    Thanx again!

    Oh, I also just noticed that I missed your post that followed the Mobil 1 message ...had to do with your impression of the A4. Yes, the dual exhaust extensions are extremely attractive but the argument over at AudiWorld was that they are not true dual exhausts in the definitive sense. Evidently, they do not individually extend from the exhaust manifold up front but originate as one pipe and split off at some point. But still, I agree, they look damn nice!! And the armrest does fold backward 90 degrees to clear the area between the seats if, like you noticed, it gets in the way of shifting or your elbow. It also is height adjustable ...assuming that they're the same as in the '01.

  • eawegeaweg Posts: 50
    Hey all...
    I have an A4 in my crossharis but I don't know which one and if the extra $$$ is justified in getting the 3.0. Here's my driving environment: traffic, stupid drivers, no great hills or curves...yes, Charlotte, NC. I love driving a stick but traffic is really starting to irk me...I currently drive a 96 Saab 900Se turbo w/stick. I would like to get a 6 cyl. but don't know if it is worth the extra $$$ the tip really taxing on the 1.8T? Any advice would help. By the way, if I had the extra dough it would be the S4 right away...tip or manual.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    The problem with posting the above link is that it keeps changing. Two weeks ago is was something like ".../parkplacemercedesbenz/oil.html", and the week before that it was ".../parkplacemotors/mobil10w40.html". Also, the price has changed each time the link has changed, I bought mine from "Park Place Motors" and I think that the price was $5.65 per quart, not that I would fuss about $0.35 per quart mind you. ;-)

    Thanks for the "Heads Up" on the height adjustment of the armrest, I did notice that it would pivot up and back about 100 degrees from horizontal, but I failed to notice the height adjustment. Call me lazy (I am on the down slope to 50 nowadays after all ;-)), however, I do like having an armrest (as opposed to holding a perpetual 9 o’clock – 3 o’clock on the steering wheel when just cruising along), I just want it to clear my elbow when shifting into 2nd, 4th and 6th gears.

    Best Regards,
  • eaweg-- I don't know if you read our responses to your previous posts but, yes, you can easily chip the 1.8T and you can also chip the tiptronic transmission if you find the performance in stock form not up to you expectations. IMO, yes, being used to the Saab, you might feel that the 1.8T with the tip --and with quattro-- may feel slightly sluggish from what you're used to. Many of us believe that the value or bang-for-the-buck represented by the 1.8T, can't be beat.

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I have another comment regarding the A4 3.0 vs. 330i configuration that I posted last night. One of my personal goals is to "Play to my strengths". When ordering cars, I use the same philosophy, “order them so that they play to their manufacturers strengths”, in this case, AWD Audi and RWD BMW. As far as sedans go, NOBODY does AWD like Audi and NOBODY does RWD like BMW, in both cases many folks would add the proviso “Yet”. Regardless of the fairness of the comparison or the logic of the optioning, if I was to order an A4 3.0 today, it would be a Quattro, similarly, if I were to order a 330i today, it would be with RWD.

    I live in northern New Jersey where we have basically wimpy winters, in the last 9 years there have only been a dozen days or so where the Quattro would have been a necessity, and for 4 or 5 or those days, the roads were closed to all but emergency vehicles. For the remainder of the time, I was more than contented to sit in front of the fire with my family, or if necessary, drive our AWD minivan.

    Best Regards,
  • Ah, ok, well you gave some good directions on how to navigate to the actual purchase page. So I guess I won't bother to try to bookmark the page then. Thanx again ...I'm really glad you found that!

    Ooops, yeh, I was thinking 100 degrees but mistakenly typed 90 degrees for some reason. And the height adjustment is only a 3 position choice so it isn't like it has a myriad of adjustment positions or anything. But I notice my forearm seems to just rest naturally on the armrest even when I'm shifting. Although I haven't yet retrofitted with a short shifter, I seem to be able to easily shift with mainly wrist action. But I've only got a 5-speed ...maybe with a 6-speed I'd want to get my whole body involved with the new intensity of the driving experience --then damn the armrest; get it out of the way! :P

  • Shipo-- I agree completely with what you said about "playing the strenghts" ...good points!

    Cosworth V8 confirmed in the new S4?--

    I asked for responses over on the S4 board about the validity of that article that I posted yesterday about the new S4 and someone that actually is from Ingolstadt replied that the new S4 will definitely have those specs. steher "Audi S4" Dec 14, 2001 3:57am

    So here's that article again:


  • eawegeaweg Posts: 50
    To be quite honest, I had a 99 Passat with the 1.8T engine and I loved it (just wish it had a little more power). The turbo lag was virtually nil. As for my Saab, I am tired of the Turbo lag. I agree...bang for the buck you can't go wrong with the 1.8T. My understanding from some of the chip manufacturers is that the chip(s) are not yet available for the 02 model. My whole thing is that I really would like an automatic for traffic purposes but I am worried about the OOMPH factor. Thesecond thing is that I never thought I would by a german car that wasn't a manual...

  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Yay!!! Mobil1 0W-40. However I heard some conflicting comments about using such a thin oil in engines that accumulated quite a bit of miles. So I guess I might stick with 0W-30.

    Yup I agree with the concensus.....RWD, go with BMW. AWD, go with Audi. There is no point to get an AWD BMW and a FWD Audi. And Shipo, before I got the Audi I thought I'd use the AWD only during snowy weather.....oh by the way we folks at Chicago finally got the first snow.....but no accumulations on the ground so can't have FUN yet. Anyhow, after I went to the Quattro Challenge hosted by Audi, they showed us how good Quattro is even on dry pavement and wet pavement (water). We can downshift, make a turn, and because it got all the wheels sharing the engine torque, it's just incredibly smooth coming out of curves. When you go and test drive the Audi with Quattro, ask the salesman for a very curvy road if he/she didn't do that. Power through the curves and Quattro's amazing. Of course you don't want to get into understeering situations but even so, it's easy to get out of it.

    03 S4's w/340hp and a V8? Isn't that going to be too heavy up front? I thought they're going to get the current RS4 biturbo V6 engine and stick it into the S4. Good enough horsepower I thought, with 375hp and 325lbft of torque. Either way, gotta save up now. I am, however, a little bit disappointed that (according to Rocco's pics) the new S4 might just look exactly the same as the 02 A4 plus a lip spoiler like the new M3. I'd expect it to differ a little the 3 series coupe and the M3. Hope Audi does a little bit more mod to the S4.

  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    The turbos on both the A4 1.8T and the S4 are small compared to big Saab and Volvo ones. They spool up at around 1850rpm so the turbo lag is minimal. And if you pair it up with a stick, I'd say it's not even there cuz you can keep it around 2000rpm. And with the low gear ratio on the 5th gear in the 1.8T, I pass traffic on highways without even downshifting. Of course that brings up the issue that high revving engines might not last as long, but I'm sure the engineers already take care of that. Turbos spin even faster.....tens of thousands rpm mind ya.

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, "However I heard some conflicting comments about using such a thin oil in engines that accumulated quite a bit of miles. So I guess I might stick with 0W-30."

    Technically speaking, they are both 0 weight oils (hence the 0W), as such, the 0W-30 and the 0W-40 have the same flow characteristics when cold. The difference is when the engine is hot, the 0W-30 thins out more than the 0W-40, the result is that (when hot), the 0W-40 will protect the engine better that its thinner sibling.

    It is my understanding that Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Audi & BMW all use 0W-40 Synthetic (not necessarily from Mobil though) as the "Factory Fill".

    Best Regards,
  • audibonaudibon Posts: 100
    'Rocco, Billy et al:
    Thanks for the props concerning my play on words! Thought everyone would like the tongue in cheek reference. I am not very good using the emoticons so have to show my sense of humor in other ways. I think IMO that since Sept. 11th we sometimes complain about insignificant things at least to outsiders and thought that keeping it light is the way to go. With the economy and the "war" etc. etc. I'm sure all of us can use a laugh now and then.
    Many posts earlier I stated if I had the money to burn an M5 would be the way to go! But if Audi would put a six speed in the A6 4.2 and then hop it up a little, it would get me in to a dealer in a heartbeat.. and BMW would be shaking in their boots. Doesn't look like it will ever happen so why keep beating a dead horse right? Gotta see if I can find a snow covered parking lot after work tonight. :) Later.
  • Yeah, I too was a Saab turbo driver for years (both 9-3 and 9-5). Good cars. Got an Audi 'cause I needed AWD for the the terrain around my new home.

    The A4 1.8T FWD with CVT is supposed to be available in the U.S. next month. If you haven't read anything on Audi's new Continuously Variable Transmission, do so. Before you make your decision, try one. From what I've read it's well worth waiting for if you're willing to live without Quatro (Audi says it will be available with Quatro within 2 years). It's like having a lossless automatic transmission that optimizes to the torque curve and doesn't clunk through the gears. Audi has even provided, if you choose to use it, Tiptronic like manual shifting with this new transmission. Personally, right now I like the manual for driving the hilly, twisty roads around here but if I had city commuting to worry about, I'd definitely look at the CVT.
  • I posed the question to the S4 board about the premium that would be "tolerated" in the US for an S4 -- even with the V8. A friend of mine claims the price premium will be "around $5K" over the price of a fully loaded A4 3.0 -- but the fully loaded A4 would have sat nav, parktronic, etc and while hardly a stripee, the S4 would omit sat nav and parktronic, but would have wheels, tires and ground effects and most of the power accessories of the A4.

    The rationale, I was told, is that the US buyer cannot tell enough of a difference (except behind the wheel) between an A4 and an S4 and that the upcoming model will not depart too much from this "stealth" appearance.

    Therefore, he argues, about $5K will be tolerated.

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Another thought on the “Dual Exhaust” setup on the new A4 (and A6 too). It occurs to me that if Audi had another option box on the order form for “Dual Catalytic Twin Exhaust”, maybe even with a crossover pipe, for say $400.00, they would sell quite a few of them. I suspect they would be popular if for no other reason than the exhaust note would sound far more sinister than the current setup where Audi has simply put a very wide “Y” in their single exhaust system as opposed to the very narrow “Y” on my BMW. Currently, Audi has the “Looks” thing down cold, now if they would just carry through on the promise and offer a true dual exhaust I would be happy. ;-)

    Best Regards,
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