Audi A4 2004 and earlier

vocus · February 2003

EVERYTHING is negotiable when buying a car, especially in a not-so-perfect market like we're in right now. The warranty price is negotiable, and there are varying levels of coverage (time/mileage). I would definitely get the warranty if you plan to keep the car for a long time. Sit down and think about how much mileage you intend to add to the car, and buy a warranty accordingly. Also, aftermarket companies offer extended plans too. Go to google.com and enter "extended auto warranty" in the searchbox. You will be surprised how many links appear.

pat · February 2003

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there are lots of resources right here.

Black6speed30, you can go to our Finance, Warranty & Insurance Board and check out the conversations there. I think you'll find a lot of interesting and helpful conversation about extended warranties.

Also, on our sponsor site, http://www.edmunds.com there is a wealth of information about all kinds of purchasing, negotiating, financing, insuring, etc. options.

Check out the links towards the bottom of that page - you'll find more information than you ever dreamed of. :-)

markcincinnati · February 2003

The new Audis come with 50K full warranty. My dealer suggests getting the add-on warranty later. There is an Audi extended warranty avail that will provide significant coverage to 100K -- it has a "list price" of $1295 -- it is often discounted.

My dealer, to repeat, says wait -- but do it while there is warranty avail from the mfg.

gusharls · February 2003

Thanks for the feed back people. As for the Rand map idea. Well its a very good map but driving into LA LA Land(LA..)for the first time is an unnerving experience.
Take into account that I was driving by myself. So no navigator(wife).
The Nav system worked perfectly! Taking me over hill and dale. Onto this highway and under that highway. I have never seen that much traffic in my life.
The traffic warning system that is suppose to be working did not. I actually was flying down a highway at around 75 mph when I came upon a head on collision that had just happened within the past 10 minutes. Somehow a driver in an suv had hit a car in the most outer lane(I think it was 6) head on There was a huge divider so I could not see the suv flying over that. (the divider was a train track for a comutor train which I saw shortly after words).The Nav system took me to my friends front door and yes I was impressed. I would have not gone into L.A.(alone) had I not had the Nav system.
The car performed beautifully all the way home. One thing about Audi,s . When you have a good radar system and the motor is purring at high sppeds the pleassure of driving is really enhanced.
I think it's safe to say that traffic in most major cities has gotten much worse.
That all fades away when you get onto a well maintaied highway.
One other piece of good news. I found an auto supply store in L.A. on a Sunday(Traffic was bearable) and got hold of a polish called LIQUID GLASS. I have tried out everything from waxes to 3M and beyond. This is the first polish that I have used that actually gave the silver paint an incredible deep highy relfective shine.
I highly recoment it. Its winter in Canada and where I live(west coast) it rains a lot. When I get the car washed the shine is still there. The last application was in Sept. For my Canadian fellow drivers Liquid Glass can be purchased in Canada from a auto store in Toronto. I foud out after I had ordered two cans from L.A.The taxes and duty's and the exchange rate made the can very pricey.
Use google and it will take you to the manufactors site and the Canadian site when you use the Canada only search! Thanks again for the imput.
Mark

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

If you think liquid glass is good, and it is good mind you. You should try Zaino, it will really make you go WOW! When I have a chance, I will post a pict of my A6 Avant after 3 coatings of Zaino.

gusharls · February 2003

I take it you have like me tried out all the high end stuff? Could you drop me a line with your comments about the "real differance" between the two? I'am very courious as the Glass was the best I have found. Rememeber I live in Canada and we do not get the variety that you do!
Zaino souds like drano

Brewer79@telus.net

Thanks
Mark

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

No problem, I know what you mean. I will post a pict of my car after the Zaino treatment tonight, once I figure out how to do it for this board.

Here's the web page for Zaino.

http://zainobros.com

They are strictly mail order only, you can also see the gallery where owners sent pictures of their cars in. It will gives you an idea what Zaino can do for your car.

pat · February 2003

There is also a very enthusiastic bunch of Zaino users hanging out on the Maintenance & Repair board. Keying zaino into the keyword search should find the discussion.

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

Here are couple pictures of my A6 after 3 coats of Zaino. The picture was taken this past summer, and obviously before all these snow.

mtofan · February 2003

I want to get a 98 2.8 A4 (FWD). I found one that has 50 K. Manual, leather...all the goodies. The guy was asking $12 650. I was able to bring it down to $11 950. Does it sound like a good deal for me, or should he go lower? I haven't made the purchase yet, but the car is in mint shape (one owner and full service records at Audi)and I will probably get this one.
Is the price ok??? Help me out please.

JBaumgart · February 2003

I have the same car with similar milage, but with quattro. It's been a great car and I think it's a very well engineered model.

What I would do is search dealer inventories in your area to see what they are asking, then you'll be able to assess how much you'll be saving by buying it from a private party. Don't forget to compare cars that are similarly equipped, as the prices vary a lot depending on options. The FWD models in particular should be several thousand below those that have quattro. Leather, sunroof and automatic added about $1000-$1200 each when new. Go to audiusa.com and link to several dealers, and check their prices and you'll have a better idea of how aggressive the pricing is. Good luck.

lee0001 · February 2003

Well, I'm about to pull the trigger and get a new A4. After deciding on the package (premium, all weather), I placed a deposit on an inbound car. Now, I'm thinking that I should have also requested the xenon headlights. So, my questions is, am I really sacrificing alot by not getting xenon? Are the standard headlights more than sufficient? It's a $400 invoice option that perhaps I'm hurting myself to not get. Thanks in advance, Lee

mbnut1 · February 2003

I've never had them but people who have, swear by them and at $400 they are not as expensive as some other makes like Mercedes.

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

I will never get another new car without them, they are that good, IMHO.

andys120 · February 2003

groping around in the dark with ordinary halogen lamps like blind men? <?8^)

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

That's what I used to think, until I test drove 2 identical cars, one with xenon, one without. The difference in the ability for you to see the road better is day and night. And all for roughly $400-$500 additional price?

nyccarguy · February 2003

They do make a huge difference. Once you buy/drive a car with Xenon lights, it is hard to drive one without them. My Dad who was definitely a detractor of Xenons a few years ago with a "why would I pay extra for headlights?" attitude. They came standard on his Infiniti QX4. He loves them so much that he made sure my Mom's A6 3.0 had the Xenon option box checked. He recently drove my Honda Prelude which does not have Xenon headlamps and asked me if I needed to clean them because the light wasn't as crisp as he's used to.

lee0001 · February 2003

Thank you all for those responses regarding the headlights. That's what I thought. Now, my problem is to find the car with them added. In talking with my salesman last week, he said that there weren't any of these in stock or coming in anytime soon. In fact, the closest dealer that may have them for a swap would be at least 100 miles away. Now, I'm in a quandry. Oh, what to do.

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

Ask your dealer to see if they can do a dealer trade. Now, if you don't want to have that extra 100 miles on your car, you could see how much it is to have it transported by a trailer. Depending on the margin of your deal, they might or might not eat the transport cost. In that case, you could split the cost with your dealer. Again, its your money, do what you think is the best for you.

My dealer located my Avant from another dealer that was 26 miles away. They drove the car over to my dealership, which I had no objection over.

Again, your mileage may vary. Good luck.

lauk0dg · February 2003

My A4 originally didn't have it although I wanted them on the car myself. Couldn't pass on a great deal on one in the dealer's lot without the xenons. Eventually I bought the aftermarket Philips kit from Supreme Power Parts and the difference is dramatic. The kit goes for about the same price as the OEM xenon kit.

What that means is if you can't get the OEM xenons on the one that the dealership has, don't sweat it. True that the warranty won't cover the aftermarket xenons, but if you really can't wait to get the A4 in your hands, you can do something about it later. Installation isn't that difficult and it looks as good as OEM.

It also goes like this, if you somehow get the dealership to trade you the one with OEM xenons, GET that one. It's worth it.

Billy

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

One thing about after market xenon head lights that bugs me is this. They don't have an auto leveling system, and that's one part of the system that cannot be retrofit, unfortunately.

vocus · February 2003

I have driven a Maxima with these lights, and they are nothing less than great! They light the road so cleanly and brightly, it's almost like having spot lights. The 'blue' hue of the lamps is also cool. Watch out for 'theft rings' though, they are very popular among thieves in big cities.

lauk0dg · February 2003

Agree. But as long as you aim it alright, don't go up a slope for too long of a time, or don't have 4 passengers jump on and off all the time, it is fine.

I got flashed maybe 3-4 times in about 8 months I have the aftermarket xenons, and those people most likely live in the caves because they haven't had a full size late model pickup/SUV following them or facing them.....those are 10 times worse than xenons.

Billy

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

I agree, proper aiming of the light is the key. But, maybe its a big city thing. I seen a lot of people purposely aim their light higher, especially those that were obivously aftermarket retrofitted. Civic, corolla, etc.

markcincinnati · February 2003

AoA would probably hate this idea -- but why do we have to have instant gratification. Why not order the exact car you want and wait 4 months?

Like Carly Simon says "anticipation. . ."

We've ordered virtually every one we've ever had since 1978 -- twice the lead times were bad (14 months for our first TT and 9 months for the A8).

When the car finally comes in, it is such a rush!

ahling · February 2003

Hi all,

I just checked out the A4 at a dealership, and I am pretty determined to get it in the next few months. However, I was hoping you guys can help me with some advice:

1) How is the navigation system? Friends of mine have it on their Honda, and I see it as an almost necessity for me (seeing as I live in San Francisco...) Is it worth me paying $1400 for it?

2) What financing rate is "ideal" right now? Is it possible for me to get 2.9% at a dealer?

3) I'm planning on going for the A4 CVT, premium package + navigation system. Audi's site lists it at around 36K. How low can I go on this price?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!

nyccarguy · February 2003

I agree with you, but unfortunately we live in an "I want it now society" that seems to be supplemented by dealers who discourage this practice (of ordering cars) with their "what can I do to get you to buy this car today mentality."

vocus · February 2003

I was just in front of a full-size Chevy pickup tonight, and almost got blinded! God, I hate those things! I have to admit the blue mirror tint on the VW/Audis helps a little in this regard though.

gusharls · February 2003

Ok this is were I stand as of today with Audi.After getting off the phone with a rep from Audi of America this is what happened.
1.Audi will not pay for any upgrade to the Nav systems software.
2.
I'm driving my 5th Audi. So so much for customer service and loyalty !
3. I guess I will have to take my dealer to court and sue for damages.
4. I would urge all Audi drivers to rexaimine Audi's attitude towards it's coustmer base.
5. This will be my final Audi. There are other fish in the sea.

markcincinnati · February 2003

Check out the comments at audiworld pertaining to Audi's US version of their Nav system.

I would say that it would appear that 75 - 80% of the people love the system, 10% find it useless and the rest think that the Nav+ system (the one available in Europe) is the ONLY one to have.

Here, in Cincinnati, Ohio -- I use one CD about 90% of the time, one other CD about 10%. I have good coverage to drive to Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Lousiville (much further than 200+ miles I usually fly -- Cleveland is about 220 and Pittsburgh about 225). The Audi nav system constantly (98%) impresses the heck out of me. It is very accurate and frankly I consider it a safety feature first and a convenience feature second, especially when I am out of town -- and even more especially when I am out of town, it is snowing like crazy (like this year) and it is dark.

The nav system in my 03 Audi (and this is our 4th such system in an Audi) is darn close to "uncanny." It is almost always accurate and when it is not or when the map is incomplete, it gets me virtually all the way to my destination.

I used to go to mapquest and go through the process of starting point, destination, print it out and try to fumble with it while I drive. No more.

The Audi nav system -- unfortunately it is not "sexy" like the Nav plus -- but I can assure you that it (the navigation assistance, even though the Merc did have the moving map) is identical to the system in last year's S class Mercedes -- even the voice (the Audi lady) is the same. The system is Bosch, it is CD based, which is my single big complaint (I wish for a DVD based system -- next time 04 or 05 probably).

Worth $1,400? Absolutely. Don't leave home without it -- heck I use it all the time here in my home town, because even though Cincinnati is "only a medium sized city" there are plenty of places that I can't just drive right to without help -- sat nav to the rescue.

Again check out the postings over on audiworld.com's forums (I usually go to allroad).

markcincinnati · February 2003

So sorry to hear this. . . And I think that the treatment you have commented on is shabby.

On the other hand, the treatment I have received has always been "very good" to "fantastic."

I know there are issues with dealers -- all dealers -- Lexus apparently the exception. But both the company Audi of America and my dealership Northland here in River City have been very very good to me indeed.

lauk0dg · February 2003

MarkC, of course your dealership treats you well.....you ordered and purchased so many Audi's from them.....heck maybe AoA knows you by name cuz you must be on top of their list!

So are you getting the new A8?? Remember to let us know what you think if you indeed get one.

Gusharls, so sorry to hear your experience with AoA. I have also heard some bad comments from AW about some people's experience with AoA.....although I have also heard some good ones personally. Hopefully they will treat you better later on.

Dtwleungnyc, well the civic/corolla with aftermarket xenon "wave" hasn't quite got to the midwest here in Chicago yet. I have however seen a lot of blue halogen bulbs here and those should be the ones banned.....not bright enough for the driver but too bright for incoming traffic.

Vocus, yup I hate those full size GM or Dodge Rams with their headlights up there. Weird enough, the Ford F-150's aren't that bad.....or maybe it just happens to be that way.

Billy

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

Heck, THE worst after market xenon headlight I have seen so far was on a 530. The light was PURPLE! I was driving behind the guy for roughly 2 miles, and my eyes hurt. I can't imagine what that thing looks like to oncoming traffic. The idiot probably bought a 7800 lightbulb, instead of a 4200-4400 and think its brighter.

In regard to the corolla and civic with the xenon aftermarket add on. This has be the newest and latest crime wave around the big city. I have seen a lot of TLs with their headlight getting pulled out. And when you see some civics driving around with the ill-adjusted xenon headlight, it makes you wonder.

vocus · February 2003

You can get those imitation xenon bulbs from EBay usually for less than $30. I had those in my Protege when I had it, and they were ok. In the rain, though, they were really bad. I could hardly see anything with them.

markcincinnati · February 2003

Of the many Audis that my wife and I have had, one WAS (past tense) an A8 -- a 1997 pearl white A8 with every option they offered that year.

I have no interest in a car that big, no matter what.

My 2003 allroad is plenty big for my wife, our two shelties and me.

And besides, at age 50+ I'd rather save my lease payment money so that I can keep taking trips to Germany instead of importing THAT much more of Germany to me (my wife has an 03 TT, her third and as I said I have an allroad). Size and performance wise, I'm thinking an S4 or S4 avant with the new V8 would be "just right!"

Hard to tell which came first, me being a good customer or them being a good dealer/manufacturer -- I would not have been a repeat buyer if their products or the service I received had been unacceptable.

Of course I believe in the motto "the sweeness of low price is history when the bitterness of poor service is a current event." In other words, I do feel that I "pay" a fair price and expect to be treated in kind.

So far, so good.

andys120 · February 2003

someone else who'd rather not have the largest model available. Most Americans have an exaggerated idea of how much room they actually need.

kevinjs · February 2003

glad to hear some of the comments regarding the headlights. i didn't plan on ordering the zenon, but everyone here seems to love them. also, does the bose radio make a big difference? i'm not a big music maestro(55) , but i thought the stock radio system would suffice. also, i was told that the sport package with the 17in wheels, rides rougher that without the sport. is this true? i am more interested in a smoother ride. Thanks for the info

JBaumgart · February 2003

If a smooth ride is your number one priority, and in return you're willing to sacrifice some handling prowness, I think you would be happier with the standard suspension and 16 inch wheels. A few years ago 15 inch wheels were standard, and the sport suspension package came with 16 inchers. A larger sidewall will absorb road irregularities a little better than lower profile tires, and the regular suspension will also give a bit more than the more stiffly sprung sport suspension.

As far as the Bose goes, I would be inclined to get it even if I wasn't an audiophile, at least on the cabrio where a little more power and higher volumes might be welcome when traveling on the highway with the top down.

Nice car - hope you enjoy it!

dtwleungnyc · February 2003

It depends, maybe you should check them out during a test drive. But for my ears, I can't tell the difference between the base and the upgraded version, which at the time was a $700 upgrade. Not worth it to me. Your mileage might varies.

In regard to the sports suspension. You could go for the 17" wheel combo with the regular suspension. This will gives you a bit more grid on cornering, but softer ride over bumps. Just a suggestion. Again, a thorough and careful test drive should give you a better answer.

lee0001 · February 2003

How would you all compare the 15in vs 16in vs 17in tires? Ride, handling? Is there a noticable differences between the three?
tia,
Lee

vocus · February 2003

I have a VW Jetta 1.8T (almost the same as the A4 in size & weight, and the same engine) that came with 17s. Due to the fact that I drive alot, I decided to downsize to 15s, for price reasons. Since the 15s weigh about 1/2 of what the 17s weigh, it made the steering feel alot lighter. I haven't noticed a large change in handling, but there is a little less grip than before, which is to be expected.

The suspension geometry and setup is alot different in the A4 though, so your results may vary.

bodble2 · February 2003

Is the useable back seat area of the A4 Avant bigger than that of the A4 sedan? Overall volumne is listed as bigger, but I wasn't sure if that was only due to the higher roofline. I find the legroom on the A4 sedan tight, and wonder if the Avant is any better.

markcincinnati · February 2003

The A4 avant is not identical to the sedan -- but for all practical purposes there is no appreciable difference between the two. The back seat of any A4 can be cramped if you are over 5'10" and expect to ride for longer than a half an hour or so, especially if the front seat folks are tall and push the front seats back for their comfort.

This smallish back seat is not a problem for relatively short trips or for shorter people, children for example, or pets. My in-laws are both vertically challenged and we have taken them on 50+ mile voyages without any complaints pertaining to cramped quarters.

Don't, however, get the avant thinking that you have purchased any difference in rear seat leg room.

mtofan · March 2003

I'm in the market for a 1998 A4. I test drove a few 2.8's and a 1.8T. I didn't know what to get. After driving the 1.8T, my choice is made. I have a 00 Cavalier Z24 and let me tell you, my piece of garbage American trash will take the 1.8T off the line any day. The 1.8T lacks any kind of power. It is comparable to a 95 Sunfire I used to own. The 2.8 is the finest car I ever drove. The engine is smooth, the gear changes are impeccable and the handling is as smooth as it gets (the 1.8T has the same handling...maybe even a little better since it's lighter). Hands down, the 2.8 is worth the extra $2000. Any opinions from people who had the pleasure of driving both cars???

andys120 · March 2003

IMO it could use a little more power and could be smoother at high rpms but it beats the 1.8T hands down, at least the one I drove.

JBaumgart · March 2003

For just $2,000 extra I would definitely get the 2.8, especially if it's quattro, is in similar condition and has about the same or less mileage, and comes with typical options that many buyers added, like leather and a sunroof. Also, if it has the Tiptronic transmission then you know that it's a late model '98 (1998.5) in which case it would have various other improvements made mid-year as compared to the earlier '98's.

mtofan · March 2003

I'm only looking at a manual. I drove a Tiptronic and it's just not my cup of tea. I'm not saying Tiptronic is bad, but for me, I like to have full control of what I drive. Does a quattro help much in terms of handling in dry weather? I know it helps in wet or snowy weather, but to me it seems that adding more weight to the car (because of the quattro system)takes away from the handling.

JBaumgart · March 2003

mtofan, the manual 5 speed is the fastest A4 that year, so if straight-line performance matters a great deal, that's the one to get. When you said the 2.8 that you were looking at had "impeccable" gear changes I thought you were referring to a smooth-shifting automatic. Some say that yes the quattro does help considerably, even in dry weather handling; I can't really comment because I've only owned quattro's (that's all I would personally consider here in Minnesota). But in a southern climate I would certainly at least consider the non-quattro version, as it weighs less, thus providing better performance while getting a little better gas mileage.

bodble2 · March 2003

I may have to cross the A4 off my list. I'd hate to shell out that much cash and not be able to take the car on a long trip with the family. It's too bad 'cause I really like the A4.

mtofan · March 2003

Thank's for your input JBaumgart. I guess quattro would be a luxury for me to have although I live in Toronto where we get a few snow storms a year. The way I see it, I've never had any problems getting around in past FWD cars I've had. If I get a good deal on a quattro, I will get it, if not, I'll save some money and get the FWD.

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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