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Comments
Guess what? Vocus is in there complaining about the alarm system he installed on his friends Celica GT.
Now what gives? He has a 'friend' with a 2k Neon who he takes the car for servicing and another 'friend' with a 2000 GT who he did work on the car.
Vocus, how many friends with new cars do you know and help service? How many message boards do you visit to discuss cars YOU DONT OWN!
My, my, this gets better with each passing day. So now Vocus is discussing Celica Gt's.What next?
You know something, it's becoming pretty obvious what is going on here.
"Hocus Pocus", hey fella's there's a word starting with "V" that rhymes with them both.
Only wish a disappearing act would happen for the
"V" word that rhymes with those two words.
How pathetic.
I didn't realize, Mobay, you were in Md. too. The dealer I went to is in New Carrollton (near where 495 and 50 intersect). Maybe I need to go to another one in the area. Also, they replaced the dash yesterday when I took the car in, and it's good as new. They didn't hear the engine tap, but found the recall on the PVC valve.
I know this is going to cause some controversy, but I had a Hyundai Accent for a rental while the Neon was in the shop. I was glad to get the Neon back after that experience, noisy engine and all! At least it has power with its noise.
Mine listed for 16,300. I paid 14,400. Carmax offered 8,000 for it. The dealership gave me 7,200. (High mileage) I know I could have and should have just sold it outright, but I didn't want to deal with the hassle.
I wouldn't say we got a bad one, because the only thing wrong was the rotors and the peeling dash. They cannot find anything wrong with the tapping engine, so I am not going to fight them. Also, you all might wanna know something. I called Chrysler and the basic warranty does NOT cover a service loaner when the car is in for overnight service. That sucks!
The Elantra has a very long warranty and fully loaded is luxurious. It is a bit crude in engine, and handling but may be attractive because of the
luxury and warranty. Parts will tend to be expensive if needed.It will not have anywhere the performance of the NEON
The Neon can be a great buy.Your in the right direction by picking the ES as you will get a lot for the money. Definitely get the 21G package and try to get the alloy wheels. The lighting and PREMIUM SOUND options are also worth it.
My last advice, and probably advice that no one in this country likes to hear is to get the 5spd. AND NOT THE AUTO.The 2K NEON has a lovely gearbox and good gear ratios for heartwarming acceleration. Most people make the mistake of strangling the performance of the engine , with an automatic transmission. Oh well, nobody listens!
The 2001 models will be in showrooms next month and therefore 2000 models will have to gotten rid of. Try to bargain with the dealer.
If you can get the car almost fully loaded for 11 grand or more go for it.
The 2K has had certain defects reported.Power steering pump,rough idle(auto),surging at low speeds (auto) and others. These reports are not widespread (rough idle excluded) in their occurence,and are the minority. Compared to the 95-99 they seem well made,and I would compare the 2k to a Japanese car in terms of fit and finish.
Vocus and justpurple have had problems, and that's regretful. Many others here however, have had very good reliabilty with their NEONS.
The Elantra's reliability has been spotty and unknown for all areas.Throw the dice and hope for the best for this car.
Good luck
PS (Did I mention that I think you should get the 5spd.?)
PS: If you are getting one BRAND NEW for $11K, GO FOR IT! BUT, you might wanna get an extended warranty (don't have to purchase it when the car is new) from someplace like http://www.autoconnection.com or http://www.edmundslive.com/warranty.
Good luck!
As far as the Lanos, I test drove one of those as well. Its engine is quite loud, though has enough power. The dash looks way cheap compared to either the Elantra or the Neon. The brakes felt weak. I think you need to look instead at the Nubira. That is more in the same price and size class as the Neon and Elantra. One strong point about the Daewoo is covering all maintenance costs for the first 3 years. A nice touch, but not much help to someone like me who does their own maintenance. A sore point about Daewoo is that they set their prices like Saturn, which makes them a bit more expensive than Hyundai.
Anyway, I think you have your work cut out for you. Both the Neon and Elantra are great choices. Go test drive both of them and buy the one that you like best. Don't judge it on where it was made.
(BTW, the 2001 R/T's are coming out of the factory with a price tag of 16,500-starting! Now that definetely isnt cheap.)
My 2 cents, don't go "[non-permissible content removed] and elbows" off any Korean or Dodge dealers lot with a NEW $11,000 car! You will be raped when it's time to sell or trade, and you will spend; a lot of time while under warranty and money when the warranty runs out, with your new best friend, the dealers service advisor. Don't take my word, educate your-self, read Consumer Reports, Car&Driver or Motor Trend; their concerns are the same; the Neon and Elantra are inherently mediocre and have many shortcomings. Heckle2, if $11,000 is your budget, look at a good/newer low mileage used car. Buying used, gets you lots of car for a lot less money. If you go with a newer/used car, dependability should be your first concern! Some recommended, used vehicles in the $10,000 to $11,000 range, 1998 Toyota Corolla, 1997/98 Honda Civic, 1997/98 Mazda Protege, and a 1997/98 Subaru Impreza. Good luck, heckle2.
respectfully,
Protegextwo
I don't hear much about 1995-97,Mazda,Toyota,or Honda blowing head gaskets like Neons do,but I have heard about distributors transmissions ,electrical problems with them.
I also have not heard of any head gasket problems with the 2K Neon..,,have you?
And I'm also sure YOU would put more stock in the reliability and resale value of a Protege' than a Neon. However, since we are talking about an Elantra vs. a Neon , how does the Protege' come into the picture? Old rhetoric (and habits) die hard huh?
I keep forgetting.., Vocus.., you really DO like the Neon.
Those were your words, not mine.
As for the accuracy of test reports from Consumer reports, they stated that the acceleration of the 2K Neon was "sluggish".
Now, who in this newsgroup who has driven a Neon ,even you Vocus ,would ever, in their right mind say the Neon is "sluggish"? Maybe they had the hand brake up, or the A/C "ON"(some believe the latter), but "sluggish"??.., I thinketh not.
I'll go one step further. Consumer Reports gave the 95-99 Neon a "best buy" rating in their annual Used Car Review.What the hell????
I gave up on Consumer Reports a long time ago.
As for Car and Driver, heaven forbid if they are biased in ANY way towards a particular make! They are not influenced at all by advertising dollars, and all of their reviews can be taken as absolute truth.
Believe that, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn,that I can sell you cheap...,really!
As for build quality, is'nt it a like early to paint a picture of ALL Neons or ALL Elantra's until there is hard data to prove it.
Once again, is it "I've got a car and I love/hate it so therefore all of them are good/bad", or do we have hard facts?
We're giving advice on Neon vs. Elantra.Lets stick to those two vehicles.I know you guys love your vehicles ,(and I love mine) but lets talk about the strengths and weaknesses of just those two.
Resale value- my loaded (except for auto tranny) 98 neon cost me $11500 new and would sell in a reasonable amount of time for $9000 or I could get about $8000 trade in at 2 different dealers I checked at 2 months ago.
Mileage- I get an average of mostly up and down, stop and go short trips of 30 mpg. This is lead footing it all the time and for comparison my Jeep GC 4.0 gets 11 mpg in the same trips. We have gotten a best of 53 MPG overall average from Eureka, CA to Missoula, MT when we moved. BTW these numbers (and the EPA ratings equal the 'green' toyota ECHO with its 'amazing it can even move' squirrel powered motor.
Elantra better acceleration and skidpad- no way, you are going to have to provide magazine testing proof for that claim. I'll admit my stock goodyears are a huge weak link in an otherwise awesome suspension but I have never seen a elantra run anything near a neon at an SCCA event. There is much more to handling then just skidpad numbers. Acceleration of a 98 DOHC neon 5 speed pure stock is anywhere from 15.5 to 16.2 in the 1/4 mile with the average being 15.8. Don't anyone try and pass off 0-60 times here as they are basically unreliable at displaying which car would actually be leading at 60 MPH, many times a 'faster' 0-60 car will be looking at the 'slower' 0-60 car's taillights.
Problems on old neon- not here, not with the other 3 at my work. Mine has not been completely flawless but I've said before the few minor problems I've had and how quickly they were fixed.
Haven't heard about other car problems- you haven't been looking, Toyota v-6's had more problems with thier head gaskets then the neon's did. Honda's have electrical problems. Mazda's are infected with neon inferiority complex, I could go on but just look then up on carpoint or something, the problems are all there.
New neons can still be bought for under $10000, but they do start getting pricy. I could have gotten a R/T when I bought my Sport for $300 more with otherwise the same options, add a automatic and the most expensive previous neon was $12500. The current model has crept up too much the last few years. I agree with somebody avove who said don't fork the cash over on a new 2001 and buy used. Just don't get that still overpriced import, a 14000 mile 99 R/T could most likely be found for under $10000.
If you want to pay more for imaginary superman build quality and 'impeccable' reliability, for a boring looking, lackluster performing import then believe the hype. I personally go with a Honda- the official car for people who can't think for themself.
Volkswagons have more problems than Chrysler! I think it was (JD power Initial Quality? 1999,2000)that said they had the most problems in the first year of ownership than ANY other small car make! Chrysler was in the upper half of that survey.
I also picked the Neon over the Jetta VR6, Cougar V6, Focus, Protege, Civic, and Corolla. It offers a great package.
The Echo is too ugly to be a good car. I woudn't be caught dead in that thing! It may be a good econo-box, but I would definitely go used before I bought one. Most likely small car to roll over, and it has very little hip room.
Anyway, I do agree that the acceleration WITH auto. isn't sluggish at all. I prove that every morning when I floor the pedal to merge onto the Capital Beltway. Always kicks to first and then redlines. By then, I am going 70-80. Great power. Only thing I would change is the refinement level. And all cars have first year bugs, and hopefully they will be worked out for 2001.
WOW!, another 2K 5sp.ES owner. Glad to see I'm not alone.I just completed stage II of my performance mods on my 2K.
I have bypassed the resonator box behind the LFF and gotten both a high-flow air filter (Maxspeed) and a performance muffler (a friend in Mexico sent it to me).
I of course disconnected the battery for 20 minutes to erase the computer's memory, so it could learn about the mods. It will adjust the fuel/ignition/spark to suit the mods.That takes 123miles.
My 2K is much faster than it was stock. It flies!!
The beauty is that the total cost is $352.00.I measured 7.2 for 0-60MPH with a electronic meter (G-FORCE ) so I'm very happy.
Well,fellas I'm off to bed. Gonna be going to Howell Automotive in Keyster WV. for his open house.Lots of Neon enthusiasts will be there. IF you're in the neighborhood.., drop in!
You too Vocus, the Neon guy's will love to meet you.I'm sure.
WHY DON´T YOU LEAVE US ALL HERE WITH OUR CRAP NEONS;AND YOU BETTER GO TO YOUR MAZDA´S TOPIC??
I CAN´T BELIEVE IT,YOU DON¨T LIKE THE CAR BUT YOU ARE HERE,AND ALSO IN THE STRATUS AND OTHER TOPICS;KEEP MOVING TAKE MY ADVICE!!!!!!!
But,.. I strongly disagree with your "imaginary superman" build quality and reliability comments/opinions. Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Volkswagen build vehicles with better build quality, better dependability, and hence much better resale value; then the domestic auto manufactures. The imports cost more up-front, but are a better value in the long run. Just my 2 cents, as I expressed my advise to heckle2.
Respectfully,
Larry
I disagree with your Volkswagen Jetta and Toyota Echo opinions! By most accounts, the Jetta's and Echo's are well designed and executed vehicles! I doubt you sat in the Echo; one of the strong points on that vehicle is the interior cabin room. I did an Echo test drive and thought it was much roomier on the inside, than the perception you get from the outside! In my opinion, there is a better small car choice than either the Jetta( too pricy, for the size) or the Echo(also too pricy, for the content).
Jeff, good luck with your Neon!
Respectfully,
Larry
a.) Small cars, tend to be the 1st new car, for first time buyers.
b.) First time buyers, tend to over look research and buy whats popular. Watch the Ford Focus, dominate the small car segment in the next year!
c.) Newer/younger buyers tend to, shy away from the German and Japanese imports because of the higher up-front costs.
Bob, what facts due have to support your conspiracy opinions about the Dodge Neons?
Respectfully,
Larry
Larry
You are %100 correct on your feelings; about the ability for anyone to predict the 2000 Neon's build quality! Please understand, I feel you made the right choice for your own situation by going with a Neon. But,.....please understand resale value is based on the realitys of the used car market at the auto auctions and ultimately on the used car lot. Randy, there's the rub, it's not what a Neon or a Protege owner thinks their 3 or 4 year old vehicle is worth, it's the PERCEPTION of the used car buyer! We have all heard someone say; " get the Honda/Toyota they run forever!" My 2 cents only, but....unmercifully there is not much of a market for used domestic or Korean cars.
Respectfully,
Larry
Mobay, sounds like you've got a rocker booster with those 0-60 times!! =^]
Check out page #163, in the Warren Commissions Report on the Neon Affair. Proof is in the half baked fruitcake.
Agent Protegextwo
I like the styling of the Jetta, just too expensive for what you get and it's interior ergonomics are really funky (I'm sure one could get used to this).
The Neons are comfortable cars with good power, nice fuel economy, and nice features and room too. BUT their reliability is not as good as the Japanese brands. Of course, the Neon is cheaper. But cheaper isn't always better.
Anyway, lets compare currently available models. You asked for magazine article proof, here it is (from C&D June 2000 issue): Elantra 0-60 8.3; Neon 8.8 / 0-100 Elantra 26.4; Neon 30.0 / 1/4 mile Elantra 16.6 at 84mph; Neon 16.9 at 82mph / Top gear acceleration 50-70 mph Elantra 12.0; Neon 16.1 / Roadholding Elantra .80g; Neon .79g / Emergency lane-change maneuever Elantra 61.8mph; Neon 58.1mph / Top speed Elantra governed at 119; Neon drag limited at 118. As you can see, the Elantra beat the Neon in every test. The Neon is still a very competent sporty car, but unfortunately, the new for 2000 Neons lost some of the handling directness and power advantage the old ones had in exchange for more refinement and a better ride.
Just came back (well a few hours ago) from the Open House at Howell Automotive in Keyser WV. Howell Automotive, for those who don't know, is probably the best performance reseller for Neons in the world. I say that honestly.
Anyway, there were lots of very nice Neons, and their owners. Learned a lot and the comraderie was inspiring.Got some goodies there and installed them on the spot.
Also got a speeding ticket on the way back. Hell!!
I think the Neon sucks. It has this habit of making it's driver go faster and faster.., hehehheheeh.
Oh well, I'm laughing on the outside , but crying on the inside.77MPH in a 55MPH! Gosh what a stupid sod I am.Flame me.., I deserve it/
Spelled "butt"
Larry :>)
My only complaint is the lack of rear-power windows. The other doesn't concern me directly, I think DC should put a 4 speed in the Neon, the 3 speed really sucks the performance out of the engine.
You will find a couple people that will say the Neon's reliability sucks, but the number of unspoken satisfied owners far exceeds this small group. Not every car will be problem free, but I think the Neon IS a reliable car.
In case you've heard about the head gasket problems in the early Neons, they were fixed in late 98, and haven't been a problem since.
If your interested in performance upgrades, check out
http://www.neons.org
They have a message board and all sorts of resources about the Neon (1st gen and 2nd gen).
Good Luck.
Respectfully,
protegextwo
As far as the 0-60 being wrong, that is highly doubtful. An earlier issue tested the Plymouth Neon with a stick at 8.7 sec. The new car is heavier by almost 200 pounds while not gaining any power. That would cause the car to be slower than the old one. Anyway, the Neon and Elantra are pretty much equal in performance, so let's just leave it at that.
I do agree with you on the new R/T. That car has sweet wheels, an agressive looking front end that is much handsomer than the regular Neons, and hot looking dual chrome pipes sticking out at the back. They could have used a better looking rear spoiler, but overall, it is a sporty looking car. I wouldn't mind owning one of those, though a better engine package would have been nice (such as a turbo or larger engine instead of the slight modification to the same 2.0 SOHC engine).
I have a question for you 2000 owners. I sat in one today and was a bit annoyed with the large front pillars that seem to loom right in your field of vision and the overly long stretch of dashboard in front of you. It made the view out the car stranger (and more restrictive) than anything I remember sitting in recently. Has anyone been bothered by this and did you get used to it with time? This would be the main turn off point about buying this car for me.
I noticed the pillar in my test drive and found it very annoying at first. However I quickly got used to the position, and I actually like it now. Forgot about the pillar thing until you mentioned it.
My 2000 is the best one yet, much better then the others, I've had it since June 1999, and it has been great, a very reliable and fast car.
Don't pay attention to vocus.
Who could this be? Hmmmmmm.....
Anyway, it would'nt be so bad if there was consistency to his/her..position. But this "it sucks" and then" I really do like the car" flip flopping is what confuses me.
I mean ..,if it walks like a duck...,and quacks like a duck..., .
Well , you get my meaning.
You're a very bad boy importfighter.
And vocus IS CONSISTENT. He likes everything about the car and would own one himself if not for the poor reliability and fit-and-finish.
Hey copperhead, you've had a Neon for almost every year since 1995. You don't expect ANY car to have problems in one year of ownership, even Chrysler products. Of course, some do. How are you able to give good advice to someone looking for a long-term car (>100,000 miles) when you HAVE NO CLUE how a Neon will run (or not run, as the case probably will be).
I know for a fact that my Mazda 626 lasted at least 212,000 miles with one repair that was paid for half by Mazda (even though the car was 7,000 miles out of warranty). DO you know for a fact that your Neon will last that long? I didn't think so.
One more thing; when the Neons first came out, they were everywhere. It seems as though you don't see them as often anymore. Because they are falling apart after only 5 years or less!
I know that when I got my new Intrepid in 1995, three of my neighbors had them also. Mine had this strange aversion to starting in 40-degree and below weather, and one of my neighbors' stalled all the time. Now, in 2000, all of them no longer have Intrepids, on any Chrysler product. And I see older Intrepids a lot less often, too.
Good luck with your Neon, you'll need it.
or any Chrysler product
There are plenty of examples of OVERWHELMINGLY satisfied Neon owners. I would also say the 2nd generation is a big step up from the previous. I think the fit and finish is excellent (at least in my ES).
There are going to be problems with every car. I just don't think vocus voicing his opinions over and over presents a very realistic view of the reliability of the Neon. You are just one person. One very dissatisfied person (Which in you case seems appropriate). I don't think you can say that all Neons, or a majority of Neons will have the same fate.
I lived in upstate NY, and my neon had no problems starting in sub zero weather (much better than my previous car, a Mazda RX-7). It has been an excellent car, and I would recommend it to anyone.