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Comments
In '97 I could have bought the SSEI, but why pay $5k more for the same drivetrain that the new GP was getting? The GP had almost the same sized interior. yeah the Bonny was a little more refined and a few more gadgets and slightly better quality here and there, but was NOt worth $5k more.
Why did they give the GP the same drivetrain as Pontiacs flagship Bonny? Pretty redundant. The 1997 GP looke a heck of alot better then the 1997 Bonny did.
It's about time they are giving the Bonny that new 4.4L V8 with 280hp? as an option? They should have done that back in 1997 or at least in 2000 with the redesign , now I would almost consider one. But I'm not spending $5k more for the same drivetrain in the GTP.
In fact up until 1991 or 1992 DRLS were ILLEGAL in many USA states. I believe Saturn first started it here. Could be wrong.
Arey you implying that the New maxima/Accord and other NON equipped DRLS cars aren't that safe because they do NOT have DRLS? GIve me a break.
If they are suck great accident preventers, why arent' they mandated in the USA? Answer that one?
This is not a "DRLs are good, no DRLs are bad" discussion, so let's don't go off on that tangent again.
I also think we have firmly established that different folks need different HP strokes, right?
So let's just agree to disagree and quit trying to do the impossible - make someone else change his or her mind about something which is clearly an entrenched belief.
Lemme ask *all* of you this -- is there anything that "the opposition" can say to sway you from the argument you've been making? No? Of course not. That means you aren't going to change "the opposition's" mind either. We need to just accept that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, just as we are, and give it a rest.
Let's move on now.
So far, so good for me. I definitely like my new GP as much if not more then I did the day I got it. I personally like the layout of the interior and have no issues with the "cheap" platic I keep reading about. Heck, I see no comparison whatsoever with this interior compared to the previous generation GP. This one is drastically better, but that's just my opinion.
Basically, I am definitely very happy with my 04 GTP and haven't had one ounce of buyer remorse since the day I drove it off the lot.
gunit, believe me I'm a sucker for power myself but I would have no problem merging into traffic with 4 poeple in the car and A/C on in a GM midsize with the n/a 3800. Despite a modest 200 hp, that is a powerhouse of an engine and has very good low end torque. As others have mentioned, a Chrylser product with the "magnum" 3.5 liter OHC V6 is mot much quicker. Having said that, if I were buying a GP it would be the supercharged version simply because I like more power. Still for the average customer, the 200 hp version is more than enough.
6 CD Player in-dash
Sunroof
17" wheels. I think the CTS looks far better with these wheels.
Split folding rear seat
Heated seats
Sport Suspension
Of course I would have gained rear drive and manual transmission which are major plusses.
It certainly does but does that make the GT a non-sport sedan?? Of course not. Compared to most sedans the GT is very sporty. You keep comparing the GT to the GTP rather than to the rest of the world of car for every argument. The GP is a sport sedan compared to most sedans, in any form.
As for DRLs, they are being considered by US lawmakers. Cars with out them are certainly not unsafe (which I never said) but cars with them, especially as a collective group are safer. I thought you were done talking about them? ;-)
I do NOT consider my '02 GTP coupe with mods a sports car. Thankgod the insurance company doesn't either.
The only reason I bought the GTP again in '02 was because of the $3k rebate and nearly $3k off for it being a leftover in sept. 02, Dealers couldn't move the remaining coupes. For $22k in change for a loaded GTP with everything, great deal, if I had to pay FULL PRICE today which is nearly $30k for a GTP I would spend a little more and get the G35 or 350z Coupe.
I am done with the DRLS as per the board monitor. Amber ones are nicer.
The advantage of buying the GTP is more then just the extra 40-60 hp, most everything is standard, the only FOUR options I remember from 2002 on a GTP were sunroof, leather, highly polished wheels and BOSE. And you get a higher resale value to boot.
For me I have always bought the higest trim levels on my car because you get more std features that can nickle and dime you on the lower models. You get more resale value as well...
to get the HUD, onstar and tripcomputer and supercharger for only $3k more on a GTP is a steal, it would cost you MUCH MORE aftermarket to add that stuff... if you get a 5 yr loan that only comes to $50 more a month.
The 4 cylinder Sentra Type R does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds flat... that is almost GTP territory....
And as I'm at it, valuing wet traction, comfort and noise levels, I'm split between Goodyear Aquatred, Regatta and Bridgestone Turanza, all hovering around $80.
Has anyone here had any of these tires that could comment on them?
TIA
Wait, I found out that the Altima reaches 60MPH in 8.6s and the GP, in 8.5s... Point taken. Yet, I'd rather have a V6 to merge on the highway than an I4...
I replaced them with the upgraded size of P245 50 16" which have been fine, no wheel well rubbing, I used the Michelin Pilot Sport which are pretty expensive, but much better suited to the GTP then the Eagle RSA. Only downside is that the the Pilot sport SUCK in the snow, only drive them in the dry or rain.
Yes, I would rather have the Grand Prix GT then a 4 banger Altima too, but the 4 banger Altima is pretty fast. and impressive to make 175hp. That is almost the same pwr as the 3100 V6.
Even the POntiac enthusiast magazine I got for free for buying my 2002 GTP claims 8.5 seconds for the new 2004 GT... may competitors 4 bangers are in that same 8.5-9.0 range now.
Where did GM loose 1/2 a second on the new design?? Same engine and hp? Right? Only 50 pounds heavier? Even the 2000 Impala 3800 was clocked as fast 7.9
If I had to pick FWD sport sedans I would say the Mazdaspeed Protege, Sentra Spec-V, Mazda 6, Altima SE, Jetta GLI, Max SE would be candidates.
I think I may represent a large percentage of car buyers. 0-60 times and horsepower are the only way manufacturers can "quantify" their technical abilities. "i.e.-- Acme's engine technology must be best because they have 21 horsepower more then Standard's engine." A car that is 1 second faster 0-60, while as much as 13% faster, still only gets me to my mother-in-laws: 1 second faster. I also happen to believe that there are so many variables in mesuring that they are not comparable from one source to another. I beleive that GM has felt comfortable with the 3800's performance as had many others who have purchased the various versions over the years. Only now that they were developing the new GTP Comp G did it matter to be competative.
I'm looking at getting a GT2 but I can't stand the wheels (painted or chrome). I like the 5 spoke ones from the GTP and even if I order the car the dealer says they can't be ordered on the GTs.
Has anybody ever done a trade with a Discount Tire or national chain. Trade in new tire and rim for an aftermarket rim and better tire. If so, how much $ did they give you for the trade-in? Any advice or direction would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bobbyz34, the GTP uses 17" wheels and tires, the GT2 16" wheels and tires. Thats why you can't get the GTP wheels on the GT2. After OnStar and lumbar adjuster, the difference between them is around $1,375. Get the 17", supercharger, and full function tranction control
I was happy to see that you have an option to replace the exhaust castings. The 3 options include:
- 2 sets of dual 3" Dia stainless exhaust tips
- Set of satin finish grill inserts with larger hex holes
- Larger replacement for the rear decklid spoiler.
All car testing magazines have slight variances, it also depends on the temperature, superchargers perform MUCH BETTER in colder/cool air then in hot humid air. . A 6.8 0-60 car will NOT get you any faster to your destination then a 8 second 0-60 car, I agree with you 100% I never said that it would.
From 1997-2003 you could get the GTP wheels on the GT, they were all 16" back then.
17" tires are MUCH MORE Expensive to replace then 16", I know from having 17" inchers on my 2001 I30t. that one inch is a big difference. In fact most stores in my area don't even carry 17" in stock, usually a special order of 3-5 days.
I would suspect $50 a month would be a big difference in someone's budget allowance.
If I had to pick FWD sport sedans I would say the Mazdaspeed Protege, Sentra Spec-V, Mazda 6, Altima SE, Jetta GLI, Max SE would be candidates. >>>>
VCJUMPER, Exactly my point, The only GP that ever comes close to being a sport sedan is the GTP model. Even the GTP is NOT a sport sedan, esp after owning my '97 and now '02 GTP coupes. Very fast, but only average handling and brakes. A very firm/harsh ride/excessive tire thump and feel every bump in the road and over heavy steering thanks to magnasteer do NOT make the GTP a sports sedan.
again my 2001 I30t handles the SAME or BETTER then my stock GTP. I can take exit ramps much faster in the I30t more competently.
I can tell you the GTP reliability has always been so-so at best or average.. doesn't hold up to the foreign competition.
I went with the GTP because I love coupes, ROOMY coupes and the great deal I got.
Right now I pay $300 per month on my '02 GTP coupe fully loaded, pretty cheap... only has 7k miles on it
My 2001 I30t loaded except navigation system is PAID IN FULL, just finished paying it off and it only has 15k miles on it.
That car needs a redesign.
BTW.. I have seen people stuff the Supercharged 3800 into the Cavalier, that makes for an intersting combination.. ha!
I have seen leftover 2003 I35's with leather/sunroof for $28k, very good deal, much better then paying for a lesser Bonneville. I35 is almost as big and has the same or faster 0-60 times. Just have to watch with the torque steer.
Well, $50 a month only covers the loan payment difference. If you include the price of premium gas, the reduction in MPG, and the increase in insurance, you're probably looking at closer to $1000 more a year for the GTP. Although that is not unattainable for some people, it is still a significant amount of money.
And for your information, I certainly could afford a GTP. I could afford a BMW 7-series if I really wanted it. The question is how much I want to spend on a car, not how much I can afford. It's like when you look to buy a house and the realtor tells you that you are prequalified for a $400,000 house. That doesn't mean you want to go out and tie yourself up with really high mortgage payments (although many people do).
I agree with your philosophy of getting 5 year loans and paying them off early. I've done the same thing with my mortgage by making extra principal payments. I will pay the original 30-year mortgage off in 20 years, but still have the flexibility of not paying higher payments if my financial circumstances dictate.
I bought a 2002 Avalanche and pay about $300 a month. I got the payments pretty low on a $35K vehicle because of trading in a paid off vehicle with equity, GM Mastercard credits, GMS supplier discount, good APR and rebates. Everyone else I know is paying $500 a more for the same vehicle. No thanks - I'd rather not get saddled with high payments. When and if I can work a deal for the GTP with reasonable payments, I'll decide whether to go for it then. But for now, I'll take delivery of my GT2 in a couple weeks and be a happy camper. At least I sure hope so....
The difference between the CTS with the Lux package I was considering and the GTP I bought was about $5,000. I kind of "cheaped out" to save $5K and gain a year of deferred depreciation with the 04. Don't get me wrong, I do like my GTP, but I think I may have liked the CTS a little better.
Actually, I would have really preferred to buy a Lexus ES300 if I could have transplanted my trusty old '98 GP GT's 200HP engine and silky smooth transmission. The 210HP ES300 engine and 5-speed trans really suck big time.
About the Comp-G, I purposely didn't get it solely due to the rough ride the magazines were complaining about. I figured the GTP's ride would be somewhat smoother, but I guess I was wrong.
Interstingly I saw a recent ad for base Infiniti G35's for under 26 grand. At that price, that wipes butt all over a GP.
Quite the engine and transmission.
I posetd a review in the CTS thread.
midlife : I agree. It's about C$4500 list more for a GTP up here and with added insurance and gas costs it can add up for something you may not want or need. The GTP also has a harsher ride which may not be good for people who live in areas with bad roads. GT2 seems to me to be the bast value with ABS and alloys standard.
I 100% agree with you, That is a good price on your 2002 Avalanche. Just like you I've been making extra payments on my 30yr mortgage so that I will be done with it in in 20 yrs and saving nearly $100k in the process. I usually pay my 5 yr car loans in 2-3 yrs as long as finances dictate. I refuse to pay any more then $350 per month for a car.
One of my friends just leased a new pacifica for nearly $500 a month, can you imagine? In 3 yrs they will have nothing to show for it.
In 2002 the GTP was $3k more then a GT, but with that, you got many features that were OPTIONS on a GT, like HUD, ONSTAR, DIC, better radio, etc. That was more then offset by the $3k rebate. Yes gas and insurance is more, but I figured the GTP to cost me about $1k more per year total, big whoop, esp based on what I was getting, my opinion.
When I said 4 banger sedans, I meant mid-size, not pocket rockets.
But I get free loaners even for my SLE...
As a matter of fact, I find the I35 hideous. The G35 is much more appealing, IMO.
But, yes, many imports' prices are falling while GM's are rising...
:-P