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Infiniti Q45
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Comments
I owned a 95Q45T and it was a real sled (dangerously so) in Chicago winters. I have Blizzaks on the GS and have had NO issues through two winters.
All three prospective new cars sticker around $60K, with the LS at $62K+, Q at $59.3K and the A6 at $58.8K. LeaseWizard is throwing low residuals out for the LS and Q, but over 50% for the A6 (all at 36mo and 15000 mi/year).
All three are excellent. I haven't driven the Q yet. There are enough dealers in the Chicago suburbs to be competitive.
I think the Q is most distinctive, the LS is the sure bet and the A6 offers the most all-weather choice in Chicago. If I go with the Q or LS, it's steel rims and snows in the winter.
If I can get away in the low $900's by paying Ill state taxes up front, I'm OK. I think all three can be had for this figure, but residuals are sliding.
For those financial gurus out there, do residuals go into the tank in mid summer of a model year?
base Deville - 275
DTS - 300
Out of curiosity I went to my local Infinity dealer this last Saturday to get a close look at the Q. I was hoping to get a test drive. Ever notice how when you are NOT interested in talking to a salesman, you are swarmed by them...and when you actually DO want help from a salesman, you are ignored?! Well, I figured if I pulled onto the lot in my STS it would help show that I am a legitimate prospect. Even after doing that, and going into the showroom and helping myself to sitting in the Q inside for a while, NOT ONE PERSON APPROACHED ME!
I was surprised to see a sticker price of $59k+ on the two Q's they had. I though these things were only around $51k. Anyway, I left without driving the car. Also, I could not intuitively figure out how to open the trunk to check out the size. No lever/button on the lower dash or next to the driver's seat that I could find. Where is it?
Nevertheless, I don't think it's the < 10% increase in horsepower that makes the DTS faster. I've driven both, and the difference is substantial. The difference was even more pronounced in the previous generation Deville/Concours.
To get back to the subject at hand, If I recall correctly, the Q's trunk button was in the glove compartment.
One more thing...
What's with that ridiculous chrome cassette deck in the middle of the dash? Couldn't they have put a simple single CD player in there instead? The last time I remember buying a cassette was ~1985.
I, for one, hate loading a bunch of CDs into a magazine. Just give me a single CD player IN THE DASH for goodness sakes.
With a changer, you just load up 6 CDs one time. Then you have all that variety of music at hand. I have a 6-disc CD changer and very rarely switch the CDs.
The top end Q54 I sat in in the showroom has the same smell as a low-end Nissan with cloth seats. I don't get it; all that leather and you can't even smell it.
I still get comments from people who get into my '99 STS who ask me if the car is new. The STS isn't perfect (is there a perfect car?), but for the money at least it smells like a high-end luxury car with nice leather.
My current Deville has a single CD player, and I have found it to be much more convenient. I prefer to pick a CD before I leave the house, and pop it in for that 20 minute drive to the office.
The bottom line is, I use the single CD in my current car a lot more than I ever used the changer in my previous car. What good is a changer if one finds it too inconvenient to use? Sure, a changer can be nice for longer trips, but city driving accounts for ~80% of my driving.
In any case, putting a cassette deck in place of either a CD changer or a single CD player in a car like this seems rather absurd. I suppose it could be used for books on tape and the like, but I can't imagine that tapes account for a very high percentage of what the average Q driver listens to. It and the clock looked like antiques sitting there amongst all of that wonderful gadgetry. It reminded me of the old chrome 8-track in my first car -- a '67 Mustang.
I liked the clock, by the way -- it serves a useful purpose, and looks nice.
As for Edmunds, they really do not like Infiniti, and the reviewer seemed biased from the start. They also did not drive the car with the sport suspension and 18" wheels. The Edmund's reviewer must be a simpleton if he cannot figure out the sound system and air conditioning system. You need not use the voice activation, as the buttons and knobs are pretty easy to figure out. My ten year old figured it out in five minutes.
This particular reviewer is a BMW fan who champions the simplicity of the pure BMW experience and loves analog dashboards....I can't wait to see his review of the new big Beemer with it's new driving system, much of which is controlled by a pod in the dashboard. I think BMWs are great too, but at just over 50k, the Q45 is a pretty nice car and a great value.
I have driven mine over 6000 miles and not had one complaint. No rattles, glitches, or problems...For a new introduction of an all new car it really impresses. It also is quicker and faster then it was on the day I brought it home...I do not know if the system is adaptive or if it has just broken in, but is feels pretty quick to all that have driven it. Including two of my friends that own cars like 740I's and XJR's.
Personally I think Infiniti still has their advertising and marketing money spent badly. I see LS430 tv ads in many shows I watch but the only place where I seem to see Q tv ads is Bloomberg - and I'm much more interested in the market numbers which display at the same time than the ad. I know Lexus has the much deeper pockets but Infiniti has to spend more wisely.
As for the car odor - that's crazy. My old LS400 still had some of that new car smell when I returned it to the dealer. These companies use top notch leather in their cars.
The sense of smell is one of the senses we are fortunate to have as the human species, along with sight, hearing, touch, etc. We judge a lot of things as humans by our sense of smell. Indeed, part of the intangible "chemistry" we have with a member of the opposite sex has to do with smell. Can you think of the perfume your wife or girfriend wears? Can you think of the perfume your grandmother wears (or wore). Does each smell conjure up a completely different feeling when you smell it???
Walk into a movie theatre and what do you smell? Popcorn. It is part of the movie-going experience and I am sure ads subconsciously to the overall experience, whether you eat popcorn or not. If you were to walk into a bakery and smell the aroma of a steakhouse it would screw up your senses and probably all but squelch your desire for baked goods. For sure, market studies have been done on the effects of smell on human buying behavior. Ever see a bakery whose oven exhaust was directed to blow out by the front door? It's that way for a reason. The mere smell of it can completely change your frame of mind and draw you in, even if your were not thinking about sweats when you walked by.
That said, I am merely stating that to me, a luxury car with quality leather has a different "smell" to the interior than a Nissan Sentra with cloth seats. That is not to say that the leather in the Q is not high quality. I am not saying that at all. I merely am making an observation that when I got into the Q45 in the dealer showroom, it smelled like a $20k Nissan. Those cars have a distinct smell to me (the same smell they have had for years beginning in the late 70's when I first ever got into a Datsun.
In fact, I was very impressed with the interior of the Q45. It definitely looks and feels high quality and upscale overall. It just doesn't smell that way. That's it, plain and simple.
And jflx: I am talking about the Q45 here, not the Lexus. Nissan products, more than any other Japanese brand, have a distinct smell that permeates all of its vehicles regardless of seat materials. Also, I am talking not just of a "new car smell", but of the smell of leather. Ever walk into a Wilson's Leather store, or a Coach leather store? It smells like...LEATHER. If you were to walk into either of those two stores and it smelled like anything other than leather, like, let's say rubber, you would not get the "sense" that it was a quality leather goods store.
There is a method and legitimacy to this "craziness".
A couple of other comments about the Edmund's review.... I believe he made some comment about the console feeling like it was going to break free at any time...HUH? I have since grabbed and leaned on mine and it hardly budges. I am going over to the BMW and Lexus dealera this afternoon to yank on their consoles so that I can compare...just kidding.
By the way, I really do appreciate BMW's. I just think is it unfair and obtuse to compare the base version the Q45 to a car that costs $15,000 more. Why not use the Sport version or Luxury version Q45 when making this comparison? Both of these have larger wheels and adjustable suspension settings. I also think that is is silly to "diss" some of the technology in the Q45, when BMW is heading towards an even more complex, tech-oriented, driving system in their upcoming new 7 series.....
Just like they used the non-sport version of the Q, why the heck would they use the DTS Caddy and not the smaller STS? The first thing they said about the DTS was that is was too big. Duh!
Oh, and regarding the leather, I guess we have differing senses of smell of what leather smells like. I have only been in one Q, and it defintely had that generic Nissan aroma, which is even different from other "new car" smells to me. Unique, not bad, just unique, and not like leather to me.
To robh3 - I had a 280z and 280zx (78 & 83)and both had leather interiors - and they smelled wonderful new and I never noticed any odor that differed from other cars later on. Admittedly my sense of smell isn't that great but you most certainly have one hell of a sense of smell.
The interesting question is which car has better performance, the Q or the LS??
W-210 - the E is a totally different car than an LS or Q so its hard to fathom how the LS copied its style which is how this discussion got started. I'm sure the Q like the LS is a great car but the Q will have a hard time penetrating Lexus customers. It needs to steal away the upcoming BMW buyer. I'm sure it'll test good against a 7 (if the mag is not biased - good luck with that one) but will have a hard time winning BMW buyers unless they forsake the new model and want to save $20-25k.
BTW to the person who said the LS has the best stereo. MT said the Qs was better and the Qs sytem is standard whie the ML is like a 2000-3500k option. Edmunds said its the best too while giving the Q a horrible review but thats edmunds. They tested the Q in terrible conditions and really dont know how to drive if they cant get the car to go 0-60 in about 6 seconds.
When it comes to sedans, the magazines should be judging the cars on ALL aspects of the vehicle; can they comfortably fit the quantity of people advertised, can they fit the average amount of luggage for a family of four on a week's vacation, do they get good gas mileage in the process, do they have good safety features and equipment, etc.? Yes, I want my car to have good driving characteristics and be "fun" to drive, and have power, etc., but it's not ALL about that, and only that. These are passenger automobiles, not racing cars for sport and cash money prizes to the guy who can negotiate the cones the fastest.
Insurance is no more for me in my A4 than it is for my wife and her I30. The 325xi I priced out would have been within $5 per month of the A4 insurance-wise. We have the same coverage and we both have clean driving records.
Reliability is Lexus and Infiniti's strong points, I'll give you that. They are not any cheaper to service, though (as a matter of fact, with the German cars, you get free service for 4 years or 50,000 miles, you don't with Infiniti or Lexus). Therefore, the Lexus or Infiniti will actually cost you MORE to maintain over a 5 or 7 or 10 year period than a Bimmer or Audi.
Lexus and Infiniti are not cheap to repair, either. No luxury/semi-luxury car is.
Dealer experience varies dealer to dealer. You cannot generalize and say one is better than the other. It all depends on where you live. I've been to 2 Lexus dealers here in Denver. I was not overly impressed with either one. OTOH, the Infiniti, Audi and BMW dealers here will bend over backwards to make customers happy. So I would give Audi, Infiniti and BMW the edge in dealer service over Lexus here.
As for interior materials not holding up, that's pure speculation on your part. Do you have any evidence that German interiors don't hold up? I didn't think so (although I'm sure you know a guy who owned a BMW once and he had ALL KINDS of problems).
I just wish you would stop posting this misinformation as if it's a fact. I know you love your ES, and you'll get another. That's all fine and good. More power to you. But most of what you just posted as 'fact' is really just speculation on your part.
I do think the new Q is a great car and I'm truly surprised it's not selling better. I think it will catch on, though. It has the content of the LS/S class/7 series and sells at the price of the GS/E class/5 series. I like it. I would definitely give one a good, hard look if I were looking at cars in that class.
And, I recently replaced the brakes on my 1995 ES 300. Dealer wanted $250, I got them for $190 from a mechanic I know. For the heck of it, I called my local BMW dealer and asked about the brakes for a 1995 3-Series. $450. Even the mechanic I know said German cars in general cost more to maintain once out of warranty. And I believe BMW only covers maintenace for the first 3 years even though the warranty is 4 years (and only if the light goes on).
My girlfriend's father had a 1995 SL600 that he owned from day one. The AC went out. They wanted about $6000 to fix it. The cost of something like that on a non-German car would be nowhere near as high (admittedly it is a specialty car).
While the Lexus dealers in Denver may not be good, OVERALL/AS A GROUP, they are superior to MB/BMW/Audi and probably on par with Infiniti.
I never stated anything as being fact. You just interpreted it that way.
As for the Q45, I like it too. If I was spending that much it would be on my list, no doubt about it.
I'll ask you this: How much were your 15k, 30k and 45k maintenances all put together? I just called one of the Lexus dealers here in town (Kuni Lexus - 303-798-9500 if you care to verify it). They want $425 for the 15k service, $480 for the 30k service and $425 for the 45k service. That's some mighty high maintenance costs if you ask me!
$1,310 buys a lot of brake pads!
And it sounds like you need to get a new insurance company, too. Like I said, I was within $5 per month on either a 325xi or my A4, and my A4 is $3 more than my wife's I30 per month ($86 vs. $83). IOW, it wasn't a factor. Sure, the 330i might be a couple of bucks more a month, but it wouldn't be significant.
I'll say the whole dealer thing again. Who cares who is better as a group? I care who's better for me, and you should care who's better for you. Averages mean nothing in the real world.
My comment about the BMW light was because for oil changes they typically seem to come on at around 12,000-15,000 miles. I would want my oil changed more often.
Don't remeber my 15,000 service. I just had the 30,000 and it was $360. My car, although 6-1/2 years old, only has about 31,000 miles.
My insurance company, CNA, is supposedly one of the best. I've had it for years. When I had some body work with my previous car, the body shop said CNA is one of the very few that will pay for original parts and not fight with the shop on cutting corners. I consider my policy to be very good.
You're right about what matters -- how the dealers are in your area. No argument here.
Let's stick to the Q45 since that's the topic. We both agree it's a nice car!
Mag car testing - If BMW continues to build cars that handle as fantastically as the mags say (though you may notice they seem to always use a "sport" BMW and rarely a base car) and if this is 90% of the test than the Bimmers can never lose except on those days that someone prefers an MB "sport". Why test the cars when the decision is ordained by the test driver preferences and the cars selected beforehand to suit those preferences? Isn't this the way the Comunists used to elect their politicians? Why not have other criteria the way Consumer Reports does or at a minimum why not test comparably equipped cars? As an everyday driver I have a hell of lot more criteria than "sport" handling which is rarely needed in the first place and on those rare times that it is usable I have someone in front of me driving very slowly anyway. I also have a lot of responsibility in life so I wouldn't drive irresponsibly to begin with. We don't drive the cars around the track - we drive them on roads crowded with other cars. I also can't help but laugh when they ask the test drivers what they would purchase if it was their money on the line - which they don't have to spend in the first place.
JD Powers - Lexus number 1 in customer service for 5th straight year followed by Saturn and then Cadillac. Cadillac definitely trying to join the elite and I hope they make it. Despite the many complaints on this board Infiniti was 4th and I've always heard great things about Infiniti service in past. BMW was 7th and MB didn't crack the top 10.
If you want to get a sense of practicality of a car look into Consumer Report. Not surpizingly the BMWs never top their lists. Their practical experience leaves a lot to be desired, mainly as far as reliability goes. Here I have to side with lenscap that German cars are far from reliable. The easiest way to see this is to get an extended warranty say from www.warrantygold.com. The extended warranties on German cars are double and triple what they are for comparable japansese cars. Keep in mind that these quotes are based on the real world data the company collects about each model and reflect the projected cost of the car over the warranty period.
Just as an anecdote. Today I read a web site where a guy listed the cost of maintaning his 1988 BMW 750iL. The car cost $80,000 when new. Now it has just over 100,000 miles on it. The guy was a second owner and he as well as the first owner kept immaculate records of the car. Over its life the car has been at the dealer for service over 100 times or over 7 months alltogether. The owners spend $32,000 of their own money on repairs not covered under warranty. The car is now worth about $8,000 but needs work worth about $10,000 to make it sellable so in fact the value of the car is -$2,000.
Once while on line at the supermarket, I glanced over to one of those rags on the rack. It had a picture of Ronald Regan with his arm on a Martian. Gee, it was on the front page of a paper at the supermarket. I guess it must be true. Right?
This guy spent a week with the car (is this the norm with test cars?) and really gets into the details in describing its various aspects. Even if you don't agree with his assessments, you've got to give it to him for being informative.
He even got the car to go from 0 to 60 in 5.8 seconds! And that's with everything loaded! What gives?
I test drove the new Q45 last week since I had heard that it had been completely re-done. I was not expecting much, having been extremely under whelmed by the 98 or 99 I test drove last time around. To say I was blown away by this car would be an understatement. While I have really loved my GS (only real complaint is that the seats get uncomfortable on long drives), I think that the Q will be taking its place in my garage come January. I'm going to see if the dealer has a demo that he would let me take for a weekend just to make absolutely certain before I plunk down $60,000.
To all who own this car, have you had any significant problems or annoyances with it? What kinds of deals were you able to make? I know that it hasn't really been selling very well, and it will be approaching a year since release come January, so I'm hoping that good deals will be relatively easy. (S. Jersey, Phila. area).
Thanks for the input.
It has 3 tenths more of an inch more rear legroom than the Q45. I had no complaints with the seat all the way back when i sat in it...im 6'3. I prefer the Q over the LS anyday. but the lexus name simply makes the LS more appealing (in the public view).
I compared the Q45 with LS430 and GS430, S430 and S500, BMW 740i and 540i, including multiple test drives in each of these models. For me, the overall value of Q45 (Premium trim) was unmatched by the others.
Of course, value is relative, depending on your definition and weighting of various factors. But if prestige and image in the eyes of others is important, the Q is probably not going to achieve or sustain it for you. Every one who has commented on my Q initially thought it was a Lexus or a European brand (none could believe that Infiniti/Nissan had such a great model)!