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Comments
Wheels / tires – Tires: the fact that you can buy a specific tire (or tire type, I like that idea, Mark) that suits your requirements at TireRack does not necessarily mean that Audi can buy them for OEM fitment in Germany. If they tried, would it jeopardize their OEM relationship with Continental, for example? And would it be reasonable for Audi to buy and stock and make available every possible wheel / tire that would fit an Allroad? And every other A6 model, every A4/S4, TT, A8/S8?
Now one solution I could conceive of (without spending a lot of time thinking this through on my lunch break) is something like this:
Every Audi bound for the US has exactly the same wheel (steel) and tire (really cheap) and part of the port(s?) preparation of cars for shipment to dealers includes fitting either the exact wheel / tire combination the customer ordered, or the dealer has requested, if ordered for stock. The issues then would probably be confined (?) to the cost of developing relationships with multiple wheel and tire suppliers (or perhaps bringing on TireRack as a partner / supplier?), developing JIT procedures at the port facility so very limited stockpiling is necessary, hiring people to do this work, developing and distributing new ordering instruction for all Audi dealers, etc., etc., etc. (Point being – not trivial, and not something that could happen overnight, but it would be do-able.)
Then the actual OEM wheel / tires (perhaps the equivalent of 4 little limited use spare tires?) would be shipped back on the next boat to Germany for re-use. Now all this would cost money. And the question (one question, at least) becomes: would (enough) customers be willing to pay for the fitment of exact wheel / tire combinations to order. And (related) could Audi sell this option at a reasonable profit.
I think that the answer here would probably be ‘yes’. The primary considerations would seem to be whether an arrangement like this would be perceived as more cost and time effective for a customer than ordering the wheels / tires from TireRack (or wherever), arranging for the installation / swap, dealing with the OEM wheels / tires, etc.
Now there is no question in my mind that Audi could initiate a scheme something like what I have described above, and thus allow a virtually unlimited set of combinations of wheels / tires for their customers. Likely? I think not.
And I would see such a scheme as a way to truly differentiate Audi in the performance car marketplace. I expect that the problem here is that Audi perceives there to be too small a percentage of their potential (and real) customers that would care. I would care IF and only if I could order my vehicle with exactly the wheels and tires that I want at a cost that is significantly lower than taking delivery of the same car with some other combination, ordering the combination I really want, having it drop shipped to my dealer, having them pull off (and then what?) the OEM wheels / tires and install the new. And Audi could do it for less money and hassle than handling it all myself.
And dealing with those OEM wheels / tires really seems like a significant issue here. Mark – do you receive some sort of consideration or allowance from your dealer for these OEMs? What exactly happens to the OEM wheels / tires? Is there actually any market for them? I suppose I could see the dealer re-selling the OEM tires at some discount as ‘near new’, but how long would he need to stock them? And the wheels? Except for someone that happened to crumple an identical wheel – say in an accident, into a pot hole or against a curb – when would the dealer actually see a market for them? And would he want to simply store them for an extended period? Even if this issue is resolved satisfactorily for you (and I presume that it has been, for you), I doubt this could scale well – meaning if 15% or more of the dealer’s customers wanted to do this, it seems likely that there would quickly be a large pile of OEM wheels and tires languishing on the dealer’s back lot . . .
And the Port of Entry wheel swap scenario described above still does not address the situation where I happen to see exactly the car I want on the dealer’s lot – color, equipment – everything as I want it, EXCEPT for the wheels / tires. Now what? Back to arrange it yourself . . .
Now if I ran a car company (!) – AND did not have to answer to a board or stockholders – then I just might try doing something like this. But hell may well freeze over first . . .
Regarding the ‘full paint’ issue. I find it very interesting that Porsche has long offered, and still offers, according to their web site, the option of exterior “Non-Metallic Paint to sample”. For something in the $3K to $4,500 price range, depending on model. Not too bad a price, I suppose, if you consider that some of Porsche’s ‘standard’ metallic paint colors command a $2K+ premium on the 911 Turbo – and you absolutely have to have a Porsche that precisely matches the color of your wife’s (current) hair color! Though I wonder what they’d do if presented with a Revlon ad as the sample . . .
Just my $.02.
Cheers,
- Ray
Who wonders what happens when the wife’s hair starts to turn gray – or she decides to highlight it . . . ?
I can only assume that they must think that if you want an 18" wheel you must exclusively want a summer only Ultra High Performance tire -- which was what they used to think about you if you ordered 17" wheels. OK the cry from the wilderness -- we, in the USA, often are willing to accept some "at the limit" handling compromises IF we also want some light snow and "all season" capability.
The cost to Audi of offering the 18" wheel -- which they charge extra for would, NOT change (or the change would be diminimus) if they offered summer OR all season tires.
I do like the idea of putting the wheels on in the US after the arrival in port -- but if they don't do it now, I see no economy in changing this -- the main reason might be to provide greater choice for the customer, but I seriously doubt that it would be needed.
On the issue of the OEM tires -- our 2 2003 Audis came in, I ordered 8 tires from the tire rack and called the service manager who will receive the tires in a few days and dismount the factory tires and put them in "body bags" and deliver them to my house. The new tires will go on the factory supplied wheels and life will go on. As we near the end of our leases, we will have the brand new "old" tires put back on the cars and the next owner will have fundamentally new tires on a 30 - 36 month old car.
What is annoying is that we have to go through this -- I'd PAY to not have to go through the hassle -- it is obvious I am paying TO GO THROUGH the hassle.
Read the audiworld.com forums -- many customers apparently would buy direct from Audi if given the chance, they (we) sure do spend it in the aftermarket.
The rise of the Audi boutique (there are optional wheels there, for example) is more evidence that car companies need to get into the 90's (at least) and allow their customers more latitude with the options (especially no brainers like tire characteristics) which would put more to their top lines and bottom lines -- and I'll bet have the unitended consequences of making their customers both happier and more loyal.
Audi lost about $3000 in revenue that I would have been happy to pay them -- this week alone from my wife and me. "This just ain't right. . ." ("Bobby if you weren't my son, I'd hug you" -- Hank Hill, King of the Hill).
What are they thinking?
Now I am finally home and ready to go in and give my $ to Audi to get my Quattro. I'm in need of the finance vs. lease debate as I've never done either - alwasy paid cash - but am entering a new price realm and would love some educated opinions.
Buy what appreciates (like real estate), rent (or lease) what depreciates, like cars.
I purchased via financing a 1978 Audi 5000. I have leased every car since then except a 1987 Audi 5000 CS turbo quattro which I paid cash for.
Unless this is your "last car" or unless you drive more than 18,000 miles per year, I can think of no sane reason to buy (in cash) other than 0% financing -- and even then depending on how long you expect to keep the car, well I would at least run it by my CPA or Tax Lawyer.
Today technology changes rapidly -- a 4 year old European car will be very very very expensive to maintain. Rent the thing or buy it, put it up on blocks and worship it.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
The Audi Assured program is a combination of "check up and fix up" and an insurance policy -- the dealer pay $1000 for the program and "certification" -- Audi Assured.
You CAN lease a 2001 Audi and it will still cost less than buying it used (finance or cash).
If you can swing it -- lease for NO MORE than 36 months.
Good luck.
You can lease my 2001 A6 4.2 if you want (37000) miles -- if you can do the deal within 10 days or so.
do you suggest a the 36 month lease on the new cars, too? and at the end of the lease if i decide i'm still the "drive it for 10 years" kind of owner who doesn't like car payments - how do you feel about buying out a lease?
thanks in advance!
I would also look at what technology had done in that 36 month period -- sometimes newer means better, safer, more fun. Also I do belive that a perment lease payment, while it may be argued is more than buying the car outright and keeping it for a long time, is not more expensive when you factor in the benefits of the new car and subtract the cost of repairs and maintenance.
Listen, I am 51-- I will probably keep my pattern going for at least another 15 years -- and then, based on my circumstances, I'll "retire" and become an Audi salesperson -- although that looks pretty difficult. The sales reps at my dealer don't quit, don't get fired, don't die and don't leave -- EVER. Looks like something that might be fun and rewarding, though.
If I have any hair, perhaps it will turn grey, then I'll fit in with the rest of th Audi reps!
Have a great weekend!
Does the 4.2 cost much more to maintain than the 2.7? From what I've read here, it seems like the 4.2 has more brake problems. Is that the consensus? Are parts like starters and alternators much more expensive for the 4.2? I think the 4.2 is the better value but it is $4000 more and if repairs after warranty are too expensive maybe I should get the cheaper car.
Thank you in advance for any advice.
Might I be setting it wrong? I searched this forum and read that some people have had AC problems and others think the AC is fine. It seems weird to me that the AC seemed weak on four out the four Audi's I have driven. All four were 2000 to 2002 models.
Doug
The 2000 model year (It's first) of the 2.7T had a disproportionate number of problems. The 2000 4.2 seemingly less so. Both cars have the same brakes. I'd tend toward the 4.2 for this reason, and because it just looks better. I'd check the sale prices against the pricing here in Edmunds and elsewhere.
I am a little confused about your "low" reference. If it is to temperature, you have a problem. While it is ok to set in that fashion, you should not have to. We leave our cars set to "70", or a bit higher, on "auto". Consequently, we have experienced no difficulties, even on the warmest days. If set properly, you should notice very cool air emanating from the vents.
By "Low" setting of the AC, I mean I keep turning down the digital setting until it says, "Low". The last number it reads before Low is 64 degrees and then is maxes out at "Low". When I have tested the AC on various Audi's the outside temp was around 65 degrees. Maybe the Climate control does not go to max cooling if its goal is 63 degrees. I will ask a dealer and they should be able to show me if I am doing something wrong. Since you are getting good AC I must be doing something wrong.
Thanks again for the help.
In summer the air, if you lean into the vent is so cold you can see your breath.
The sunroof does tend to screw things up a bit if you leave the sunshade open.
The system is not only using temperature as its guide -- it uses sunlight too. This seems to make it "know" that after dark the cooling doesn't have to be so intense.
Our problem here in so Ohio is humidity and the A/C seems to do a nice job at dehumidifying too.
But I agree, the old days of the A/C systems that blast "unlimited" cold air are gone.
I have had several other cars with climate control including Toyota's, a Ford, a Mitsubishi, and a Nissan. If I set them to their lowest setting, they would blast out cold air. Now that it is Fall and cool outside, maybe the Audi system realizes no one would really want max cold, when it is only 65F degrees outside. That is my theory for now anyway.
Now to find a car. The 4.2 I mentioned already sold for $35,000 and it only had 25k miles. Rats!
Over the past year to year and a half some on this forum have remarked that they would be interested in knowing when I was getting rid of my car (off lease) since I lease for short terms and am particular about maintenance etc. Well here is what I know. . .
I am not selling my car. The dealer will be taking my car and "Audi Assuring" it for 100,000 miles (extending the warranty). It currently has 37,000 miles on it. As you know, it has all options on it. It is in Nemo Blue with Ecru interior.
I will gladly tell anyone who wants to know how to contact the dealer here in Cincinnati and who "the key person" at the dealership is. The dealer is Northland Audi. It is my salesperson FYI -- I'll give you his name if you want.
Since I don't know all the particulars and am not personally selling this car, if you want to contact the dealer or e-mail the salesperson directly, please let me know.
I am not the seller. I know everything about the car and am happy to provide info. You would be acquiring my car from an authorized Audi dealer who would make it "Audi assured."
I hope I have stayed within the boundries of the "non solicitation" for sale, since I am not the seller of this vehicle. I do know, however, what you will be able to get the car for if this is of any interest to you. Drop me an e-mail and I will give you the info so that you can make the contact.
Or not.
Some essentials to keep in mind:
-First, I concur with the references to "TireRack"; they are knowledgeable and have outstanding customer service. I have purchased all tires through them for over ten (10) years.
-The reference to maintaining the 215/55-16 size for winter tires is excellent advice. Unlike "summer" performance tires, winter rubber performs best with a narrower tread; physics still has applicability, in this situation.
-I have used Blizzaks, Michelins and Pirelli's; they all performed well. However, some versions are skewed to winter conditions, to the extent that dry performance is slightly compromised. To address this situation, manufacturers have produced performance, speed rated winter tires; e.g. Michelin Pilot Alpins and various Blizzaks. These are still superior winter performers (they display the "snowflake"), but provide better dry road performance. You must decided which is the best compromise.
For the past five (5) seasons we have used Michelin Arctic-Alpins; they are virtually as good as the pure winter Blizzak, but they do not have sacrificial tread. I have purchased them from TireRack, on steel rims with hub caps (which look surprisingly realistic), in 215/55-16, for about $600.00. I have been completely satisfied. You give up a bit of dry road performance, in exchange for excellent ice and snow abilities.
The proper Michelin or Bridgestone, purchased in consultation with TireRack, should serve your purposes nicely.
2002
A6 Station Wagon
Ming blue with gray interior
Leather & Sunroof
Heated Seats
Ski Sack
Wineglass Wheels
Would of liked the package with auto-diming mirrors - but it wasn't a deal breaker.
We paid $500 under invoice.
And the only bad part of the whole deal was that they couldn't offer a good price on my 1992 Nissan Sentra with only 50,000 miles.
Thanks again for all the advice. I look forward to popping back in when I've got a few miles under the hood.
Kristen
You win!
Good luck and congrats.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
The price is steep, but sometimes one gets what one pays for. Definitely true in this case.
My own opinion is that if you encounter snow and ice regularly, then the A6 will provide better traction and safety. It has the same or better electronics that the BMW has, plus the added benefit of two extra wheels providing traction. If you only experience poor winter driving days fairly infrequently, you could certainly get by with just RWD plus traction control, particularly if you add good winter tires all around.
My last four vehicles have all had AWD, which I have come to really appreciate here in Minnesota. There is a lot less stress driving on ice and in snowstorms, and I get a kick out of pulling away from people who are spinning their tires or sliding around. For my situation, in fact, I don't think I will again buy a car without AWD. For added security and less stress, I also have winter tires for each of our vehicles (an allroad and an A4, each with Quattro. Before these I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX). That said, if I did happen to live in a more moderate climate, I certainly would be open to buying a RWD BMW, because as you said the handling and steering is a bit crisper - as long as you're on dry pavement.
For fun, next time you have a major rain/thunder storm or even modest snow in your area. Go to the BMW salesman and get the car out to an empty parking lot and see how well it sticks to the road. Like others on this forum, I don't think I can ever spend money on another car that's not AWD.
But then, its your money, spend on whatever your heart desires.
1. Turn each tire 180 degrees on the wheel.
2. Install on the car using no air wrenches! Hand torque each bolt to ensure that the wheel is not "torqued". Tough to find a place that will work with you in this manner but well worth it.
If you do buy the Michelins, My experience over the years has shown that a Michelin tire RARELY needs more than one ounce per side.
Good Luck!!
I've got between 30K & 5K on my Conti's. (Two replaced because of flats.) I plan on replacing them all in about 5K with Pilot A/S. I've generally had good luck with Michelin. Michelin makes the roundest tire, which should help eliminate or minimize your shimmy. I've got it too between 65-75, but it's transient. It may not be the balance. This is a problem that has occurred on some A6 quattro's with ALL the different engines. Causes have been reported to be everything from the tranny to lug bolt torque. I got rid of it for 5K, then it came back slightly between 45-55. After my last 10K service, it was back between 65-75. I'd rather not have it at all, but if they can't get rid of it, I'd rather have it between 45-55. But the intensity of this too seems to be decreasing. Could the two tires added after flats caused the problem? I'm doing my next 10K next week, and will try to get it resolved again.
By the way, Timcar, I have read that the Quattro is very sensitive to having tires of unequal wear, even if you replace a pair at a time (of course, both running in the front or in the rear). Also, my Audi dealer says it is not difficult to get to the A/C fan. Mine has remained quiet (knock on wood!).
I will report on the tires again in a few thousand miles.
specs: 2003 6spd manual 2.7T allroad
all available options
burgundy red pearl
ecru "cricket" leather
full paint (done here, not in Germany)
swapped tires right off the truck -- put on Michelen Pilot A/S 245 x 50 x 17's
kept the factory tires for a rainy day
As you may remember, most recent A6 was a 2001 4.2 w/sport package.
New car: seems to have given up nothing in quickness, but I haven't red lined it.
The allroad is significantly quieter than the 4.2 -- less road and wind noise, very little engine sound (the A6 4.2 is better -- it growls so pleasingly, the allroad is almost silent). The allroad handles very well, but the 4.2 is better in this area (but this was not unexpected).
The factory phone and On*star are very well integrated, the cd changer built into the dash is perfect.
Overall I like the allroad slightly better than the outgoing A6 -- but I must attribute this almost entirely to the transmission -- I doubt I would rate the allroad higher than the 4.2 A6 if the allroad had the 2.7T+tiptronic. I test drove both and found the auto allroad less quick and somewhat less responsive than the 4.2 (W/TIP) and much less responsive than the 6spd allroad.
I can't comment on the tires since I literally didn't even drive the new car with the factory original tires -- I do think the Pilot A/S's are excellent, but this is not a comparison with the OEM's.
The full paint option makes the car look like an S6 avant after mild steroids -- but I have no delusions that this IS an S6.
After only 250 total miles on the thing, it is too late to say if I think it really needs to be chipped, which was my plan so many months ago. It is so close to the capabilities of the A6 4.2 sedan in straight line acceleration, I may change my mind. See me in 3,000 miles or so. . .
The brakes work great -- best brakes I can remember in an Audi since 1995 (on my '95 S6).
Tyre pressure monitoring -- pretty nice knowing its there, too.
All in all, so far, the swiss (or German) army knife of cars.
OEM Contis but I'll just say they wear quickly and offer little steering response. I went with Dunlop A2s which I think will go at least 30-35k.
and offer good steering response etc in wet, dry and light snow (A4Q Avant2.8). I think there as good as anything that offers reasonable wear.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
More of an issue was that I only had a narrow aisle for my right foot between the brake and gas pedals. What having to panic stop, just to test nose dive, I hit the brake pedal when lifting my foot off and moving it to the left to apply the brake. Seems a little tight in there, only about 1/2" clearance between my 11EE foot and the brake when I rested my foot on the gas.
Has anyone else noticed this or am I just too darn big for this vehicle to fit me comfortably??? I really like everything about it, especially the quattro as it looks more like I am headed north to live in next couple of months. I've got no trouble in my '98 GS300 and have recently driven several other makes without noticing this issue.
M
The issue of the wide console mixing with the driver's right knee is also a potential issue.
These interior "issues" probably bothered me more when I first started driving the Audi. Now I just look at it as a "quirk" of driving a German car. I think most of the Audi's do not have as "roomy" an interior as the Japanese or American vehicles.
I now view it as driving a "sports" vehicle with a "tighter" interior with more driving control and handling. Getting into the 2.7T does "feel" like entering a sports car.
Interestingly enough,the Audi has more REAR space for hauling than any other sedan I have seen! It is amazing what I can put in the back of this vehicle! Audi makes better use of this space than just about anybody, considering the car is just a 4-door sedan!
Excited about tonight, dealer has the R8 on the showroom floor and my son & I are going in for a close look. He's 12 and wanted to know if we could drive it - don't I wish!
And CONGRATS to Mark on his new customized allroad. I had one (though a Tip) as a loaner, and liked it a lot.
Space: I'm about four inches shorter than you Bob, but about as wide, and wear an 11E. I agree with your comments concerning pedal placement, and initially did manage to get my foot on the gas and brake at the same time. But I haven't done that in a long time, so I guess I'm used to it.
Since I have very short arms and legs, I probably don't have some of the fit issues, but do have others. I find the driving position I've arrived at EXTREMELY comfortable. My prior two cars were a Lexus and a Legend, both of which were very comfortable cars. But the seats in my 2.7T are the MOST comfortable I've ever sat in during long trips.
When I first looked at the A6, I was impressed with how UNcomfortable the seats were compared to my then Lexus. But as I continued to look, I fiddled with the controls, and like magic, found a perfect seating position for me. From this experience I came to realize that the comfort of the seats in the A6 is extremely dependent on the adjustment. Moving the seats very slightly can convert them from torture to comfort. These are unlike any other I've encountered. All this is to suggest you might want to play around with seats for awhile at the dealer on a floor demo, before you make any judgements.
Enjoy your beautiful car!
Just one thing:
I've noticed a few comments on the boards about a/c noise but was wondering if I can get some more feedback on prior experience or how to fix it before I go back for round two with the service department.
Anyway, I'm loving almost everything about this car except for the a/c NOISE - it sounds like the car is possessed. At times it actually interferes with my stereo system sound. It starts as soon as the air/heat gets going and can keep making noise even when I turn off the a/c system and/or the car. The noise has been present since I drove the car off the lot. I had to get one of the headrest leather attachments fixed so I also had the dealer listen to it and they told me they would listen to other a6 avant's to compare and get back to me. They have just given me the verdict that it is normal which I am having trouble understanding.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Kristen