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I have driven all the cars mentioned above at speeds above 110mph -- I have also accelerated them "strongly" from street legal to autobahn speeds. I have never noticed anything I would consider a "back off." Heck, my 1999 A6 2.8 quattro, while no dragster, was strong and capable at legal and autobahn speeds. It just took a bit longer to reach any given speed when compared with the V8's or turbo engines.
None of this is meant to contradict the GS430 statements, per se. It appears that the GS430 does accelerate more quickly (all the car magazines report this consistently). My statement is only to question and argue the point that the Audi engines "back off." I have no experience that would validate that; and, I have read no reviews or reports that suggest Audi engines "back off." Please try another test drive.
Whew!
As far as I can see, the only major difference is that the '01 has a longer warranty. Does it also have full scheduled maintenance while the '00 doesn't? This is a point I'm confused on. Given the discounts I'm seeing on the '00, is the longer warranty/maintenance worth the price?
Also, they stopped making the stick for the '01 2.8. To get that, I have now have to go to the '01 2.7T. Is that price jump worth it?
I like the feel of the car and do 20k/yr of mostly highway driving. 0-60 times are not that important to me so I didn't really look at the 2.7T.
Anyone with thoughts on the subject?
thx
Also, from what you've said, it sounds like I should have no problem finding a '01 2.8 when I pull the trigger next month.
Thanks for all your help.
Jim
Otherwise, I'd go for the 2000.
- Warranty AND factory-paid scheduled maintenance were 3 yrs./50000 miles on 2000s; both increased to 4 yrs./50000 miles for '01.
- Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP) std. on '01 2.7T, 4.2; opt. on 2.8. N/A on 2000 models. (I've not driven an ESP-equipped car, so I can't comment on its effectiveness.)
- 2000 models with memory seat (part of Convenience Package) have driver-only memory feature. '01 models so equipped (Premium Package on 2.8, Preferred Luxury Package on 2.7T, std. on 4.2) also includes front passenger seat memory.
- For '01, Andorra Red is available on 4.2 only (available on all 2000 models).
- Jaspis Green (available on 2000 2.8 & 2.7T) dropped for 2001.
- Royal Blue "Ambiente" interior, available on all 2000 models in leather or leatherette with Casablanca White and Light Silver Metallic, dropped for '01. (Vanilla/Royal Blue leather is still available on '01s.)
- Lago Green "Advance" interior, available on 2000 2.8 & 2.7T in cloth or leather with Jaspis Green or Light Silver Metallic, dropped for '01.
- Nemo Blue introduced as a new color for '01, available only on 4.2.
- Sideguard F+R head airbags optional on all 2000 models, std. on all '01s.
- Some 2000 2.8s with the Preferred Equipment Package (leather seating, power moonroof, HomeLink, heavily discounted vs. individual selling prices) came through with compact spare tires. As far as I know, all '01s have full-sized spares.
- '01 2.7T has more available Sport Packages than in 2000, including one with 17" wheels.
As for the 2.8 vs. 2.7T, here are my thoughts...others may disagree. Whether with the 2.7T-exclusive 6-speed manual or the Tiptronic, the 2.7T is without question a high-performance luxury sedan. It has fabulous acceleration and leaves little to be desired in its driving experience. Those who own them love them. If properly maintained, there's no reason to believe that the 2.7T is any more prone to failure than the 2.8. Sure, if the turbos die and need replacement, you'd be looking at a big bill, but my understanding is that Audi's turbos can be reasonably expected to last as long as the rest of the car. In addition, the 2.7T is available with Sport Packages (several unique combinations of upgraded suspension, seats, wheels, and tires) that are not available on the 2.8.
The 2.8 (which I own, with quattro and Tiptronic), absolutely does not fly like the 2.7T. It does, however, perform and accelerate very nicely. You may have read others' comments about the 2.8 being "under-powered"; I've owned mine for 6 months and absolutely disagree with that assessment. It goes just fine! I've never been disappointed in the performance of the car, and I'm not always easy to please.
Now, if the rocket-like acceleration of the 2.7T is what you want, then you'll not be happy with the 2.8, no question about it. If money isn't an object, or if you don't mind paying roughly $4000 - $5000 more for a comparably-equipped 2.7T, buy it and don't look back. You won't regret it, as it's a FABULOUS automobile. On the other hand, if the extra $$$ puts the car out of reach or is too much of a stretch to be comfortable, get the 2.8. Nothing else on the market comes closer to the 2.7T than the 2.8!
By the way, as if you couldn't tell, ALL A6s are great cars. Regardless of which version you opt for, you'll be getting a car that puts a grin on your face every time you sit in it.
Good luck, and please keep us posted.
- Mike
An outright purchase on a 2000 will be less than the same for a 2001.
The 2000 cannot have ESP, it is available on the 2001 (and standard on the 2.7T and 4.2).
ESP, in my opinion is in the same league as ABS brakes and I would NOT get a 2000 for that reason, but then again I always lease, so the newer car generally is less expensive.
The 2.7T is fantastic -- acceleration is very strong. Yet, otherwise comparably equipped, the A6 2.8 Q, and the A6 2.7T Q would be hard to differentiate at 80MPH on a freeway. Oh but there is that acceleration when you need it.
Drive them both, back to back. Make a choice, you won't go wrong.
That's my 2cents worth.
I decided on a '00 A6 2.8Q w/ preferred equip pack, cold weather and Bose audio for $35,800. (Seemed like a fair price.) The 2.7T is more engine than I need since 0-60 is not that big of a deal to me. I could not justify the extra $4k.
I live in the Boston area and based on previous posts going back several weeks I wish to offer a couple of comments on Bernardi (where I didn't purchase the car). The observation I have about them is that they are a very busy dealership due to their location and don't give a good 'casual buying experience'. Getting a salesman's undivided attention was tough so when I called around for '00-s I was not surprised that they said they had been out for a couple of months. I'm getting rid of a Subaru and had it serviced at their Subaru dealership which is next door. They did good, but pricey, repair work at the Subaru shop and I'll probably try them for my Audi maintenance.
Anyone out there with a similar problem or do you think this is an isolated incident?
Thanks!
For the entire model year 2000, the multi-function steering wheel (with illuminated buttons for stereo and in some cases factory phone) was available on the A6 2.8 (and 2.7T) as part of the "Convenience Package" (which also included the power moonroof, memory driver's seat & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and HomeLink). M.S.R.P. on the package was $1650. Note that ordering the Convenience Package would, by definition, disallow ordering the "Preferred Equipment Package" (leather, moonroof, and HomeLink). If you wanted leather on a car with the Convenience Package, you had to order it as a $1550 stand-alone option.
I have a model year 2000 A6 2.8Q with the Convenience Package, and I use the steering wheel stereo controls a lot. They're nicely backlit in red and they work well. My car was built in April, 2000 which means that the left and right bottom buttons will control the Audi phone ONLY (which I don't have); without the phone, those buttons are useless (though I recently heard that Audi will soon offer a hands-free adapter that will allow the buttons to work with certain after-market phones). In earlier-built 2000 A6s, however, those bottom buttons control radio (up and down seek of pre-programmed stations) and CD changer (next or previous disc) functions.
For model year 2001, the wheel in question IS available on the 2.8 as part of the $1025 "Premium Package", which also includes memory for driver and front passenger front seats & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and xenon headlights. Sadly, this package is not available on cars ordered with the "Celebration Luxury Package" (moonroof, leather, and HomeLink, specially priced at $1975). If you want the Convenience Package, the only way to get leather is as a $1550 stand-alone option. Similarly, the only way to get the moonroof and HomeLink on 2001 cars with the Convenience Package is to order them in the $1200 "Sunroof Package".
What I've stated here are absolute facts, Jim. Any dealer who tells you otherwise is giving you misinformation. To get a 2001 A6 2.8 (or 2.7T) with the multi-function steering wheel, you need only find one equipped with the Premium Package. It's that simple.
Hope this helps.
- Mike
I feel the same way about my A6 2.7T (TIP!). I ride in a 225HP TT, and I felt my car was much faster. It isn't though.
Impressions matter.
But WOW, those puppies (BMW 540's) seem to be so much more money than Audi's. A 2000 A6 4.2 "listed" at $48,900 and a 5 series with a six cylinder engine and "all the [similar] goodies" was $49,200 -- comparatively it was not at all quick and was certainly more cramped -- and for me at least, the real selling point was quattro which here in Cincinnati is regularly appreciated both from a safety and a "getting stuck" point of view.
Yet my friends are just as certain as I am about my Audi, that the BMW's are high value cars, worth every penny.
Impressions, indeed!
What I don't understand is why they cost so much
more than comparable Audis. Maybe BMWs must be
owned in order to be fully understood and
appreciated. (I've never owned one.)
Another thing that I don't understand is their
"snob factor". From the sound of their
advertising, it's even as though BMW consciously
tries to appeal to arrogance! (Just listen to the
tone of Joseph Campanella's voice in the radio
commercials.) In my mind, BMW is positioned as the
car of choice for snobs. That alone is enough to
make me stay away, regardless of the actual
attributes of the cars. I just don't want to be
associated with the marque in any way.
Now, that doesn't actually address whether you are getting a better car with a BMW than an Audi. But since you really buy a car with very little data to go by (specs plus a test drive), the safer bet can cost more.
MB makes tons of money this way. You may not get the best car available for the money, but you are fairly certain of what you will get, and that it isn't a lemon.
What I don't understand about the BMW mystique is how people put them so high on a pedestal that they don't even bother to consider whether another car could equal it.
Still, there are bigger mistakes in this world to make than spending a little more than you needed to to get a car you like a lot.
I look at Audi as a car company that has had to work extremely hard in the past 10 years (since the "fiasco") to show the buying public just what terrific cars they can build. It was a matter of their very survival. In my book, they've succeeded in spades; just look at their entire line. The cars are beautifully styled, brilliantly engineered, and pack a perfect combination of luxury, performance, and sportiness, all at a much more reasonable price than their German (or Swedish) competition. In my book, that makes Audi "The Real Deal".
Has anyone explored buying a new Audi in Canada and driving it back? On another forum, one of the posters saved thousands of $$ due to the weak Canadian Dollar, even after paying the small duty at the border. The speedo is in Kph first and Mph second, but you get DRLs! Comments? Seems like it's worth a visit to Vancouver.
Not spending the time negotiating with 5 dealers is worth $165 to me, but I can't find any posts from people who have used them. Does anyone have and good or bad experience with them? Coldwel
I don't know where you're located, but regardless, $3500 over invoice is absurd. Here in CA, $1200-1500 over invoice is typical on 2.8s. 2.7Ts and 4.2s run a little higher, but to the best of my knowledge even they can be had for $2000-2500 over. Of course, the flip side here is that most buyers live within a reasonable distance of more than one Audi dealership, which results in stiffer competition.
Personally, I wouldn't spend the $165. Instead, I'd use Edmunds.com to get the invoice price on my A6 of choice (their numbers are very reliable), then I'd offer the dealer(s) $1000 over. After the usual dickering, I'd give the deal to the first dealer who agrees to a number anywhere between the initial offer of $1000 and a high of $1500 over. Such a deal would be fair to all concerned.
Good luck!
- Mike
But, as I say, with so few dealers around (there are three in the Seattle/Tacoma area; four, if you include Bellingham)I doubt that Car Bargains could source anything very impressive. Now, if you're in a larger area with more dealers, then that would probably be a different picture. But, if you look at the dealer list in the portfolio that comes with the car, there just aren't that many Audi dealers period.
1. Can anyone verify extended warranty numbers.
2. Is it worth it? After the warranty ends, what should one expect to pay for normal maintenance and service?
Thanks
So, I bought an extended warranty through the broker who sold me the car. The company behind it is Heritage, a GE company, out of, I believe, Lincoln, NB. I bought it just before the car turned over 12k because I was told that it would increase $100 after that.
The exclusions are the usual - consumables, normal "wear and tear" items - but everything else was covered. Tbe base price was $1,275 for 7years/100k miles. I paid $75 extra for zero deductible; $100 extra for a money-back guaranteee(which means, if you never use it, you can be totally reimbursed for the premium); and $100 for All-Wheel Drive. Total: $1,550.
As for what maintenance costs are after warranty, I'm not sure, but an Audi service department could certainly tell you what some of the recommended intervals are and what they cost. I believe 60k or thereabouts is a real gasser; plus, you can well imagine that changing the timing belt is not going to be any bargain. Yeah, and that's a consumable, so it won't be covered under any extended warranty.
Years ago someone whose opinion I always regarded when it came to things automotive said that the initial price of a high-end European car is only the beginning. Maintenance can be a real killer, and I'm sure there are many MB, BMW, and (yikes!) Jag owners who would certainly agree.
Good luck
A case in point: Back in January I ordered my A6 through the now-defunct CarOrder.com. The price was a mere $592 over invoice! What I learned, though, was that CarOrder actually subsidized my purchase by some $800; they paid more for the car than they charged me! (Anyone care to guess why they dried up and went away?) When I ordered my car through CarOrder, they in turn ordered it through one of their "participating dealers". The dealer charged them approximately $1400 over invoice. By the dealer's own admission, I could have gotten the same price ($1400 over) by going directly to the dealer. That would have made sense, of course, except for the $800 subsidy.
So, if you don't mind the negotiating process, my earlier advice still stands: Determine the total invoice price of the car you want (including options and destination). Start by offering $1000 over, but be willing to pay up to $1500 over. A deal within those numbers is one you can feel good about.
There are two typical options:
1. Dealer-provided. Good news is they usually cover repairs well. Bad news is if you move out of the area, the warranty is useless, as it is only good at one dealer.
2. Third-party warranties. These are good anywhere, and backed by a third party. Only problem is that some have a bad reputation as to paying the repair shop back, so it may not be accepted at all shops, or you may be asked to pay for the repairs up front and be reimbursed. Ask the shops you are considering using if they accept the warranty you are considering buying.
i wanted to thank you all again for your advice from 2 weeks ago. i got the car this weekend!!!
ming blue/tungsten leather, really looks sharp.
i only have one small problem with it. my wife wont let me drive it!
rickg
Markcincinnati: I couldn't agree with you more re the S-class vs. the 740. Last December, we were looking for a car to replace my wife's car. I saw the S-class, and thought it was very cool, but I didn't think it drives all that great. Too soft. I ended up at the BMW dealer down here, and took a 740iL on the spot. It was a surprise Christmas gift, and she loves it. What a great car. Excellent driver, and it's wonderful at speeds over 100. Truly amazing. The A8 was not a competitor in this class, as much as they say it is. And forget the LS430/LS400. We've had it for one year, and no problems.
Tell him to enjoy it.
But I don't like sending money to an unproven company so I'll try Mike's idea. I'll call the fleet managers (I don't need test drives) and see who will take $1,000 over invoice. I'll post how I came out. Thanks, John
M
By the way I love the car it's the perfect blend sports and practicality.
http://www.audiworld.com/forum/a6.html
I think there was a post a while ago about an upcoming Audi kit to allow the adaptation of non-Audi installed phones. Try the search function.
How do you like your car?
M
Also, new Automobile Magazine came in today, nice write-up on 2002 A4 with 3.0L engine.
There's been a great deal of discussion and information about this problem on the A6 forum at AudiWorld.com. You may want to check it out. If nothing else, you can join the large community of A6 enthusiasts there - we'd enjoy having you as a member of the group.
- Mike
Also what do you think of the quote, compared to $40,379 invoice and $45,355 sticker? (I live in the San Francisco Bay Area).
Thanks in advance for any quick response - I need to buy this Saturday.
Fast forward 30 years. You work hard, you have some good luck, and what seemed so untouchable early in life is now realistically attainable. Sure, the legendary 600s are no more and the S Class is out of reach for most, but the current C Class is every inch a Benz, much more so than the little 220s of the early 70s. I look at the new C Class and current E Class and say, "These cars are genuinely within reach."
Guess what? They may be within reach, but I'll pass, thank you. Oh, they're still wonderful cars all right. It's just that (in my opinion) both pale in comparison to the A6 (ANY A6).
I'll start with the C Class. MB did a great job in making it look like a miniature version of the S Class. Styling is, of course, totally subjective, but my guess is that few will complain about this one. I checked it out closely at the auto show and liked it a lot.
The inside is also nicely styled, with a few caveats. The yellow instrument panel lighting is pretty disgusting, and the gauges themselves are sparse (speedo, tach, and fuel ONLY). Worst of all, the interior is cramped, especially in back. One is quickly reminded that this is a small car. If I'm going to drop over $40K for a 4 door sedan, I'd better be able to transport passengers comfortably; in my opinion, the C Class does not allow for that simply because of its size. Then there's interior styling. The Benz is nice, but unexciting. It takes few risks, much like a Honda Accord. It's a perfect example of why some people consider German car interiors to be "stark".
Enter the E Class. Size-wise, the car is very close to the A6. Styling is again subjective, but the E Class is looking kind of long in the tooth these days. Still, it's a good looking car. The problem is that it costs about $10K too much! Base price on an E320 is $48500! That's for a RWD model with with NO OPTIONS! Forget it.
Now take a close look at the A6, any A6, regardless of engine. You get gorgeous styling with just enough "edge" to it to attract attention. The car looks like nothing else on the road. The interior is just about the best in the industry; nothing else from Germany (including the S Class!) can touch it. It's spacious, luxurious, and beautiful. As I've said here many times before, this car is just about the perfect blend of luxury, performance, and sport, and I'm referring to the "lowly" 2.8Q! Get the 2.7T or 4.2 and it obviously gets even better.
In my opinion, your question is a no-brainer. If you're looking for the Teutonic version of a Buick, get the Benz. If you want a car that will give you goose bumps every time you get near it, the A6 is your only choice. Good luck!
Anyone any info on this subject please?
About my vehicle.....no I might just jinx it so I'll keep you all posted AFTER I get the vehicle in my possession. Right now it is sitting at a dealership in LA and I have a hold on it...but I'm going to call every day to make sure it still has a sold sign to me!!!
I just can't get upto LA to pick it up until then. I am so deathly afraid they might sell it off. I have put a hold deposit on it though. More details next Friday at about this time...unless I decide to spend the night in the garage with the car!!!!
With a support group that is in this chat room I just get the feeling that I have made the right choice in buying an Audi. I hope a few years down the road I will be able to help others who are about to make their first push on an Audi gas pedal!
Would be much obliged for any info. on the warranty stuff.
Merwan
Thanks