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Please see if you can get another source for the invoice price. Here's what happened when I ran it...
I ran the numbers through Edmunds TMV calculator and noticed two things:
1) The TMV for that configuration is about $30,500 almost $1k over your quote
2) The Invoice price on Edmunds priced the options at $0 - so they must have a bug in the price or database for the Avalon. If you assumed that the $1795 worth of options you chose had an invoice of $1400, it would total to $28,750 or about $750 under your quoted price.
Regards and good luck shopping!
Since you are in So Cal, why would you want to get GV equipment instead of GU? GV is GU + heated seat. Invoice for XLS + Sunroof and GV is $29,141.
bjk.
I trust all is well with you.
I have a question about Toyota regional distribution and supply.
How is the distribution mix set for different parts of the country, say XL vs XLS and then within each one of those, the relative mixes of leather interiors in XLs and bench seats in either.
Is this really set by Toyota tops down, or by dealerships. Does that vary by region?
Thanks
reasonable handling (pretty non aggressive at this point in my life). So, if anyone can
help me out with some experienced recommendations of either what to buy or what NOT to buy, I would greatly appreciate it.
Regards,
R.
I told him that I had run into the same problem trying to find a Matrix XR here in New England with ABS. ABS makes a big difference in the winter here because our streets have so many "mixed surface" situations - ice, snow, water, sand, dry pavement.
My conversation went something like this with the dealership(s):
"I am looking for a Toyota Matix XR with the ABS option, what colors do you have in stock?"
"Sorry, Toyota doesn't make those."
"What about this printout from their national website" me showing that it is an option available for my zipcode and ABS is included in 'Popular Option Pkg 2".
"Let me check" sales person goes away and then comes back.
"We don't have any and the sales manager said we haven't gotten any. But we think you can order one" she said.
"How long does that take" I ask
"We aren't sure, maybe 10-12 weeks and even then you might not get what you want".
"He said we have an XRS with ABS" she beamed "they are very rare".
"I already looked at an XRS. It cost $3,000 more and has a peaky engine that gets poor economy and invites high revving. This car is for my me and my kids. The XR is just fine thanks". I said.
"Sorry" she said.
Meanwhile XR's with ABS (even XR 5 spds w/ABS that I want) sit in inventory at Seeger Toyota in St. Louis. They also get sold into the SET states and the far west and nortwest.
So what's the deal on ABS in New England. A regional decision? Goodness gracious, that must be truly bassackwards.
And so it goes. I guess Toyota will wait until someone's kid slides off a road here in the winter and gets injured. I think they are setting themselves up to get bad press or worse, by offering a safety option and then not making it available in the region where it could matter a lot and shows up as available..
I plan to keep this car for 10 yrs, so I want to buy w/ a long-term view. Aside from a small diff in price & size, is there a notable diff in safety & reliability?
ALSO: Should I try to negotiate price w/ the Fleet mgr, or just take his quote?
The Avalon is MUCH larger and I believe that it has a higher level of finish - particularly in the back seat than even the SLE.
The Solara really is an 02 (not 03) Camry coupe and convertible. It lacks all of the improvements made to the new 03 Carmy.
It's a nice car, but they've had trouble moving them.
In general the price you pay should be between 1500 and 2000 UNDER invoice. I don't know what your quote was, but dealers here in Boston and those in NJ are moving these at much lower prices than you'd expect.
A fully loaded 02 SLE sticker out around 27K with a 23.8K dealer cost. This means you should be able to get it for 21ish.
That's a fair price since the Solara has become a hard to move model with rapid post sales depreciation.
Just my two cents worth.
I and 3 other owners have the same problem. Check Avalon Maintenance forum. It is most annoying during light acceleration and high temperature and humidity. One has it fixed by replacing the alternator.
On placing orders, is there something a consumer can ask the dealer to show that demonstrates that an order has been placed?
Also, do you know any reason why ABS would be hard to get in New England but not St. Louis on a Matrix?
Thanks
The way we now do orders is to first put it into our "want/have" system. We basically tell all other dealerships that we want a car configured a certain way and that we have certain vehicles we are willing to give up in exchange. If there are no takers in 24 hours, it moves to an "automatic FRS" mode which means Toyota takes it as a build request. It will sit in this status for a few days to a week and then tell us if the request was accepted (they normally are). The dealer should be able to print out the "want/have" list and then the FRS request pages from our secure net with Toyota.
I don't know why an XLS wouldn't be accepted by Toyota. It should be a no-brainer if it is submitted correctly. Some equipment combinations are limited by the EPA (I'm not kidding) and some are just so rare that Toyota doesn't have enough standing parts order to fill them (cloth on an XLS is an example of that at times). Simply leaving off a roof shouldn't trigger any of these.
As for ABS on a Matrix, the only thing that *might* hold it up is if it is limited by the EPA. What does the Environmental Protection Agency have to do with safety equipment you ask? Well, Toyota tells them what the average weight of each model line is. The EPA allows them a certain amount of variance and limits us on some pieces of equipment. That may or may not be the case with ABS on the Matrix, but I only put this out there to explain the only reason it could get rejected. There is a VERY high likelihood that it would be accepted.
Warranty was for piece of mind, probably will never need it.
With the Nav you are paying about $3300.00 more then we did. I believe the Nav invoices for around $2000.00 so you may be able to do a little better, depends on how long you can wait. What is the MSRP on this vehicle? Has the dealer added any items?
It pays to shop around. Maybe someone else can comment on the Nav availability and if it commands a higher price. You may have a very good deal.
And my wife is very pleased with her Avalon, no problems or complaints. Just turned 1700 trouble free miles.
Good Luck, you will like this car.
Phil B.
When you ask a saleman they advise Regular. The 2003 Avalon Owner's Manual states:
_______________________________________________
Fuel Type:
UNLEADED gasoline. Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher. For improved vehicle performance the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher is recommended.
Use of unleaded gasoline with an octane rating or research octane number lower than stated above will cause persistent heavy knocking. If this is severe, this will lead to engine damage.
_______________________________________________
My guess is that if you do not need or want optimum performance, Octane 87 will work. The caution is in the second paragraph where using a lower than 87 (WILL CAUSE PERSISTENT HEAVY KNOCKING.) By using 87 octane, you are right at the bottom edge of performance. I do not know if the lower octane will effect anything else over time? For the extra 15 - 20 cents a gallon, I will not put anything but the higher (93 Octane) Premium in my wifes car. I use regular in my 4Runner, thats what it requires.
Salesman want to sell cars, they do not want you walking away because the car requires premium only.
Last suggestion.
Using the highest rating of 93 octane:
Figure the type of driving you do (highway, city, stop and go) then calculate your mileage. The brochure states a range of 21 - 29 mpg. If you averaged 25 mpg over 10,000 miles you would use 400 gallons of gas. 400 x .20 cents (price differential) = $80.00.
I would like to use regular gas but after reading the manual have decided not to do so. If you cannot decide, use the interim 91 octane that the manual recommends until you get a good answer. That will cost you about $40.00 - $50.00 a year more over regular.
In N.J. Exxon and Mobil regular (87)cost about $1.23 a gallon. octane(91) $1.37 and premium (93) $1.43. The off brands can be .05 -.10 less for each. The other question, is there a difference in gas brands?
Hope Cliffy can best advise on this one.
The Avalon runs fine on regular but I always use premium (92 octane or higher).
According the manual (page 192), "your new vehicle must use only unleaded gasoline...Select octane rating 87 or higher. For improved performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended".
"Use of unleaded gasoline with an octane rating lower than stated above will cause persistent heavy knocking. If it is severe, this will lead to engine damage".
Someone I know purchased one and happens to think that this is the case, but I don't think they manufactured any 4 cylinders.
Any advice?
There is no such animal as a 4 cylinder Avalon; the person may be confusing the 4 cyl Camry with the Avalon.
By the way, why would you want a 4 cyl in such a large car anyway? The Avalon is classified as a fullsize car but delivers gas mileage of 21/29 mpg which rivals some 4 cylinder engines.
They would have had to have designed, sourced, manufactured, certified, crash tested, etc. the vehicles. Not for just a couple, no way.
After reading your post, first thing tomorrow morning I will check the cables (positive and negative) on my wifes Avalon. Then I will look at my 4Runners to compare.
This may be a manufacturing defect or a problem with the electrical system. As you know, parts on Toyotas last much longer then on most of the competition, this cable may be a weak point.
If you have the XLS, do you use the 115 vac outlet? The inverter may be drawing too much amperage and it is shorting out the negative ground cable? Maybe this with using the 12 volts accessory outlets at the same time. The cable should be spec'd to perform for worst case scenario, maybe its not?
About Toyota Quality:
I did an informal poll prior to purchasing this car. Talked with at least a dozen people about likes or dislikes of the Avalon. Not one complaint other than occasional windshield glare and need for premium fuel. Some said best car they ever owned. A problem like this is a concern, I'm sure once it is fixed you will be a satisfied owner.
If I owned the Sienna that was on its way to a 3rd replacement cable I would ask the dealer to find out why this was happening. Something is wrong with that van. I would suggest that they install a heavier grounding cable.
If this has been a problem for others, hope they respond. The very least you will have many Avalon owners checking their battery connections. If I see anything unusual, I will report back.
Thank you for the information.
But about the battery cable question... YES, one of the cables did look a little funny at the battery post. Ans it seemed to be developing corrosion along the cable, not just at the post. But the car was 4 years old. It was not road de-icer or sea salt. It was corrosion. Battery was replaced at 42 months and mechanic noticed it.
Still, Toyota is great car with a greater reputation. Bought a 2003 XL as noted in prior posts. And, by the way, your battery cable IS in motion, sort of. Electricity moves. And really fast. It gets hot from movement, too.
Check those terminals, all.....
Does anyone have any info/experience on the safety of the Avalon? (I also understand there are concerns about the safety of airbags, but that might be another discussion.)
Also, a coworker of mine suggested that since I'm looking at cars and considering an Avalon, that I look at the Lexus ES300 (he has a Lexus himself). I'm sure it's a wonderful car but for me I'm not sure it is worth the thousands of dollars more for all the luxury and bells and whistles. The only thing that would make me even consider it would be quietness of the drive and additional safety. CU didn't have front crash info available on this car. I know there has been lots of discussion about comparing these two cars, but any comments about these two specific areas?
Thanks again.
I checked my wifes Avalon battery posts and see where there is a potential for failure on the negative ground connection. This appears to be
a very weak connection, the wires are fed through small holes on the angle bracket that attaches to the battery. These bare wires are crimped over, I can see where a little corrosion may separate the cable from this angle bracket. As soon as you look at this you see the potential problem. This is something to keep an eye on!
My 4Runner has a heavy cable that is bolted to the battery terminal connector, the way it should be done. With a 7yr / 75000 mile warranty on the Avalon, I really do not want to change anything but will adapt it to a heavier connection if it begins to fail.
Now I need the advise of a mechanic or electrician. Should this connection be sprayed or coated with a anti-corrosion solution?
thanks again padevlin, your post and subsequent follow-ups from others may save someone from a battery problem. In the event this connection fails, I will add a #12 wire with alligator clips on each end to my tool kit in the truck of the Avalon. At least I will know what to look for if I lose power.
Sounds like they need a 20 point inspection.
It seems my Avalon 2000 have some difficulty in acceleration. It acceleration is worse when compare with my 98 Toyota Sienna. I have fuel induction cleaning and put in a few bottles of carberator cleaner but it does not help. Does anyone experience similar problem and fix that they can share? Thanks.
The codes will tell the dealer service/mechanic if there are any issues with the engine regarding performance.
Good Luck
However I felt it was more a result of driving conditions and summer heat, which is causing the battery fluid to come out through the vent holes of the filler caps.
Perhaps it is related to the battery itself (fluid level was too high) or the manufacturer of the battery (lot #, or design). Granted, it is messy to clean-gloves, goggles, WD-40, baking soda, lithium grease, but it seems more of a maintence problem than an indictment of Toyota quality.
In your case, you could take issue with the dealer for not catching it dring the 20 point inspection.
At your(or mine)next battery change, the problem would be solved by buying a sealed battery like the Delco freedom battery.
Hawaiiavowner suggests replacing the battery with a sealed battery. For safety reasons, you might want to consider doing so.
Good luck.
I know you view this as a safety issue and you are probably correct, but so are bald tires. The government generally doesn't consider things like this to be safety related, unless there were a chance of it sparking a fire. That doesn't mean you are wrong but it does mean that you may run yourself into a battle of semantics.
Your best course of action is to talk to the zone service manager in your region. Until you make this effort, you will have no shot at satisfaction.
If I remember the average defect levels reported by JDPower for Toyota U.S. assembly facilities, it's around 1.2 - 1.5 defects per new car reported in the first 90 days of ownership. Their Lexus facility in Japan is about .5
Toyota does this by designing to very tight specs and driving their suppliers to meet them. The U.S. levels are higher than Japan because the supply chain here grew up with GM, Ford and Chrysler who have a less mature perspective on the value of Quality as a business practice.
The QA loop in the factory is pretty tight. In bound lots of components are statistically sampled and those failing are returned - the whole lot. The supplier eats the defects and return shipping. And so on... the message is clear. The system works. The vendors fix what they are doing to meet the standard.
The QA loop in the field is looser and longer. Corrosion happens in and around most battery terminals to some extent. Almost all of a car wears out at some predictable rate. That's why we do maintenance. You tend to the things that need periodic maintenance and make sure that the ones that don't aren't in trouble.
The corrosion shouldn't rot the cables through under normal circumstances and Toyota should be very interested in the defective cables and terminals.
I agree with Cliffy1. You should take the car to the dealership and see that they are fixed. You should ask to speak to the Toyota Zone folks so that you can let them know there's a problem. If you can't get anyone's attention locally, call or email Toyota NCAC and just let them know.
Then you will have done your best to take care of your car and get the feedback to the company so that they can deal with their supplier on the issue in the future.
Our 2000 Avalon XLS had what I felt were four 'defects'.. rattles, squeaky struts, etc. At first, I felt the same about Toyota quality as you. Then I did the math on the statistics and realized that mine had more than the average but was well within production variance. I might not have like being on the high side, but Toyota was very responsive and fixed everything I asked for...
Just think, I could have bought a Mercedes which had 6 defects per car as I remember - or twice the cost, four times the problems. Now that would have been a really bad decision.
For the record, I checked our battery terminals tonight. They look like NEW!
Good luck
I checked Tirerack.com and their four best sellers are: (Michelin's are the lowest rated)
Dunlop SP Sport A2 ($72)
Bridgestone Turanza ($93)
Michelin Energy MXV4 ($117)
Yokohama Avid H4 ($59)
What do you guys recommend? I am leaning toward the Dunlop's because it rates highest on the attributes most important to me i.e muted road noise and spirited handling.
Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. My driving is mostly stop and go city driving and I drive about 9,000 miles per year.
P.S: Would my warranty cover this tire failure?