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Lexus IS 300

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  • drivinisfundrivinisfun Member Posts: 372
    Well the way I see it. No matter how much you might love this car, the sales figures speak otherwise. The car is a market flop period. Perhaps it is a technical "Tour de Force" and current owners think it is the best thing since sliced bread. Still at the tune of 1K units sold per month this thing is hardly a hit. Lexus needs to "Bribe" people into showrooms with cheap, subsidized leases to move the dusty iron out of the showroom floors. And has been doing so essentially since dayview time.

    When was the least time you saw a BMW 3 series "Fire sale"?.

    Like I said before, I like the powertrain, the handling, steering and suspension very much. The rice rocket mid 1990's Japanese styling and questionnable interior you can have. This car will never succeed or gain any respect with the current sheetmetal looks.

    The IS300 caters to lovers of traditional Japanese design. You are not going to lure any Teutonic design lovers into this car, no way.

    If I want a more usable sporty RWD wagon with 6cyl, I much prefer the BMW 325i Sportwagon. Even the Audi A4 Avant Quattro wagon has the style substance that is sorely missed in the Sportcross.

    If the IS300 tickles your fancy, go for it. You'll be happy with the Lexus' dealer customer treatment. But don't expect great residual values when the time comes to sell it. This car will go down in history as another very interesting, very capable but rather forgettable design effort by Toyota Motor Co.

    The IS300 is a cheap luxury car to lease. If you want one, you are better off leasing it. Let Lexus Financial services take the a nice bath of cold water when they get it back.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...was pretty much the original target. But I think they were hoping for more.

    For me, after trying the car 3 times, the problem was not the styling or the interior details, or the price, but the fact that the ride with the 17", 45-series tires was just too rocky on SoCal concrete freeways. The handling was fine, but what distinguishes the Germans is that you don't have to sacrifice a touring ride to get decent handling. Since no cars equipped with the 16" touring tires seem to be available anywhere on the West Coast, I eventually just forgot about it, and will wait to see if they make significant changes the next time around.
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    Our hosts have provided a nice tool for estimating TCO. I ran the SportCross Vs the BMW 325 Sportwagon. I was surprised to see the difference in TCO was 1 cents per mile based upon 15,000 miles per year over 5 years (75000 miles). The SportX was .54 cents per mile and the 325 wagon was .53 cents. So if I would have bought a 325 wagon I would save about $750 in total cost of ownership over 5 years which includes maintenance and depreciation. But the 325 costs about $3K more so if I put the money in the bank for 5 years I would break even? They don't appear to add the automatic transmission option to the price of the 325 which would add another $1K.

    So I am not too disapointed that I went with the SportX which has more HP and torque; nice things to have with an automatic.

    The 325 Wagon is a good car. So is the SportCross. The 325 Wagon doesn't appear deliver any real world resale value that has any significant impact on long term ownership. I would imagine the IS sedan and the 325 sedan would compare in similar manner.
  • hvan3hvan3 Member Posts: 630
    <<Not any more than an Impala is a "souped-up Malibu.">>

    If you think the Impala is a souped up Malibu, that's fine by me. IMO, at least GM wasnt' crazy enough to market the Impala as a "CADILLAC" and charge $8K more. Unlike Toyota, a cheesy looking souped up Corolla costing consumers $33K with knock off aftermarket parts (Euro antenna, cheap rear lights, 17" wheels). Voila, its' a Lexus! That's quite pathetic if you ask me. Furthermore, some of you "happy" lover of IS300 have to pay premium high octane fuel to drive a souped up Corolla. LOL
  • hvan3hvan3 Member Posts: 630
    <<1000 units a month by was pretty much the original target. But I think they were hoping for more.>>

    Actually, Lexus original target was 20K.
  • hvan3hvan3 Member Posts: 630
    <<I want a small sport wagon. I want RWD, 6 cylinders, handling, leather and a bit of styling.>>

    If you want a small sport wagon that is fun to drive, may I recommend you getting a Subaru WRX Sportswagon? Not only will you get a RWD, you'll get AWD. It can be bought for $25K. Although it doesn't come with leather, at least you'll save $8K from buying the silly IS300 Sportswagon.

    With $8K savings, you can treat yourself to a nice Mitsubishi top of the line 65" HDTV with Polk Audio home entertainment system.

    Or, if you want to drive in style, with the $8K savings you get by buying the WRX, you can treat yourself to a nice Rolex. Chicks will dig your new WRX and that shiny Rolex. Now, that's what I call driving in "style". LOL
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...do we have to cover this ground over and over again? Your opinion is well known and has been duly noted.
  • kvsm3kvsm3 Member Posts: 32
    An Impala is nothing more than a glorified Lumina, Malibu, etc as part of GM's pathetic carlines. Pushrod, FWD, dismal build quality and a very ugly car at that. IF you want a real Impala, get a bigblock from the 60s.
    A Corolla is NOT an IS300! They are both made by the same company and thats where the similarity ends.
    Cadillac is out of touch with its competition. The CTS is going to be a failure like the Cimarron (glorified Cavalier) and the Catera(an Opel)
    Even the outdated overpriced Seville is no match for a Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, or MB. Still has the outdated 4 speed autotranny and FWD and of course the resale value is pathetic. Is there any GM car with great build quality?
  • kvsm3kvsm3 Member Posts: 32
    I was looking into getting an IS300 SportCross but the dealership didnt have any. They said the ones that do come in are usually sold out. The IS300 sedans are selling well at the local dealership. The IS300 is a great car with the backing of the Lexus warranty and service.
    Can't go wrong with that
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Sales of the IS 300 for May 2002 were actually 2,418.

    That figure was up 5.8% vs. May 2001, when sales were 2,285.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Actually, while I'm no fan of pushrods, the 3800 is a pretty remarkable plant. Big punch, ULEV, compact and rock solid. GM also makes the premier automatic transmissions in the world, which is why BMW sources from them. It is very hard to find a more competent, smooth AND reliable drivetrain than the 3800 with the auto.

    CTS is already a "success", even though I find it atrocious (to look at). It has done much to reverse the damage of the last 17 years.

    This little IS300 is already a success as well, in much the same way and in others. How much can it have cost to platform engineer this car? Not much. How much profit do you think they're making on a per unit basis? Quite a bit, I'd think. Look at the demographic shopping this car as opposed to other Lexus models. Look at the press response. Any other car ever gotten such seriously favorable reviews in a comparo with a 3-series?

    Drivin has a good point:
    Leasing - cars depreciate. Most will do it at a remarkably consistent rate across brand lines, if you compare actual selling price new to actual selling price used. In a luxury car, the rate is roughly the same (with very few exceptions) but the dollar amount is higher (obviously). Leasing any luxury car makes sense, as does buying low-mile used. Let someone else take the hit, if the depreciation will keep you up nights. I like the smell, feel and experience of new enough to pay the premium.

    As far as the wagon comparison goes, I like the 3. I've always liked the 3. Until this gem came along, nobody could touch the 3! Now there's a RWD sport wagon on par with the 3, and I like the look even more. I don't personally find the A4 to be the styling paragon that the 6 is, and I don't want the 1.8T, so there is no price advantage there for me.

    Me likey! Big time.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Another reason for me to go with the Lexus:

    Around here (SF Bay Area), every other geek on the street has a Bimmer. Even the delivery "boy" from the Medicine Shoppe has a 318ti, fer cryin' out loud.

    To gain some exclusivity without really sacrificing performance or spending more is a good thing to me...
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...on one point, at least:

    There is nothing stupid, short-sighted, or bottom-scraping about the C-Coupe. This is one fine-driving piece of work, and needs to apologize to no one for its presence in our market. Its equipment levels, and interior materials, which actually more closely match how Mercedes are usually sold in every market but this one. I have driven three of them, and they have been quick, tight, quiet, and have a nicer blend of ride and handling than the IS manages, at least on the 17" tires that are most common on the IS here.

    I don't know that the IS needs more power or even a drastically lower price. There are subtle things that need to happen in the interior, the trunk needs to be a bit larger, and the ride needs to be calmed a bit without losing the handling prowess...and the gearing needs to be addressed so that the revs are much lower in 5th gear to get better fuel consumption without affecting acceleration in the other gears. None of these items are outside the range of things that Toyota could accomplish pretty easily with the next-gen car.

    I'm not much for the dissing that the automotive press in particular has heaped on MB, Jaguar, and others for going "down market". I can remember when all of these marques had more affordable alternatives in the 1960s and 70s that gradually disappeared in our market, but remained available to the rest of the world. I for one applaud the recognition by everyone - Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, MB, Jag, BMW [ the new 1-series should be a great car ] that it shouldn't be necessary to pay $40k to get better engineering and superior road manners over a bread-butter family car alternative.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    The Mercedes marque in Europe comprises all classes and levels of vehicle and trim. I've ridden in enough base Benz taxis reeking of stale cigarette smoke to sink a container ship.

    Yet that fact in no way has tarnished the luster of, and lust for, the line. The upper-end offerings are just as highly thought of and sought after there as they are here.

    Only here in the States do you find anyone myopic enough to slam Mercedes for offering an opening price-point line up. Amazing that the people most vocal about the lunacy of such a move are the same ones who would never condescend to test-drive such an "image-depleting" mistake! Figures.

    I haven't had a chance to drive the C coupe, but I've seen it now in person, and read the specs, prices, options and reviews. I'd certainly include it in a coupe hunt between $25K and $30K, without hesitation! Looks damn good to me. I've ridden in (didn't get a chance to drive, dammit) the X-Type, and frankly, I'm very impressed. That's a very hip ride!

    Power? The current market trend is to bump the power a few ponies about every other year or so. Lexus has, and will continue to have to play the game, just like everyone else, and the IS will be included.

    I agree that a 2.0 version, now, is silly.

    Sell that as an Altezza...
  • hvan3hvan3 Member Posts: 630
    The MB's new C coupe reminds me of the old style VW Scirocco (sp?) back in the late 80's. Remember that one?

    <<To gain some exclusivity without really sacrificing performance or spending more is a good thing to me...>>

    In that case, a Subaru WRX sportswagon fits the bill.....
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    WRX rocks, man! That is a very hip car.

    Unfortunately, it's uglier than grandma's gums (IMO)! Not exactly luxurious either, is it? Two cylinders shy of what I like, and two more wheels driving than I want or need.

    I mean really, this is a face only a mother could love, and she have to be near blind:
    image

    And what's up with that tacked-on-looking, heavy C-pillared wagon butt?:
    image

    No, THIS is what a sportwagon should look like:
    image

    Mmmmmmm, SASSY!
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    If I were inclined to look at the WRX, I think I might end up in a Protege5 instead.

    But it is a very cool car nonetheless!
  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    It's complete hypocrisy that Benz people point out the Acura Integra/RSX as "waaaaaay downmarket, hahahaha, for a 'luxury automaker'" but see no wrong with Mr. C230.

    I would have little problem if the IS200 came here as a 'Toyota Altezza.' It would entice to me to do more than wheelies in the Toyota dealer lot when I stop by there.
  • superman5superman5 Member Posts: 154
    What I don't understand is, if you didn't like McDonald, would you go to McDonald and tell the workers you don't like McDonald?
    so if you like wrx or bmw.......
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,533
    When the IS300 first came out, I liked the overall packaging of the car except for the 3 humps by the passenger side of the dashboard and the clear taillights.

    I drove the car and was impressed with its crisp handling and ample power. I love the stock 17" wheels.

    The '02 changes that are subtle really catch my eye. I love the "smoked" tail lights on the darker colored cars, especially the red and black. The styling has definitely grown on me.

    I have yet to drive an IS300 with a 5 speed. I was in the market for an entry level sport sedan (IS300, 325i, A4 1.8T...) until I realized that they were just out of my reach (budget wise). So I ended up buying a 2001 Prelude Type SH.

    I read the IS300 is going to be all new for 2004 and will share its underpinnings with the next generation Supra.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    Basically that C-pillar in the WRX-wagon ensures the incredible stiffness of the chassis. Those are load-bearing pillars. Unlike the Sedan version with its cross-braces and non-folding rear seats, the Wagon achieves the same stiffness with these structural load-bearing pillars, that the Sedan version lacks. How else do you think the WRX gained a "BEST PICK" in the IIHS tests for structural strength scoring their highest possible "GOOD" in every single structural parameter ? In fact, due to the ring-shaped steel reinforcement all around the car, it simply cannot have a sunroof/moonroof. Is that a disadvantage too ? Depends on the perspective of the person judging it.

    The only issue I have is that the doors sound tinny when closing but that is where Subaru should have asked the "Door closing sound tuners" at their design studios to have spent more time in, since a lot of consumers erroneously think, that the car is structurally weak due to the "tinny noise" the door makes while closing. It only means that Subaru has not spent much time in tuning the sound of the door closing, to a "thunk" sound, like Mercedes does with all their cars.

    Also, that car's chassis has been engineered to handle the brutal rigors of rallying, which no road car/F1 race car is ever subjected to.

    But I agree, that the front-end is something that needs some getting used to..

    Later...AH
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,533
    that's another reason you can only get a sunroof on the wagon and not the sedan.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • tomjonesrockstomjonesrocks Member Posts: 8
    I've been going back and forth on this car, whether to buy or lease. I see signs for $399 a month, for $2000 down, 39 mo, and 12,000 mi. a yr. Am I crazy--or is this not that cheap? If sales are low, can I expect to be able to negotiate this down? How do these things work?
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    I have never leased a car but Edmunds appears to have some advice on the leasing game. You should be able to buy a car at around 0-$1000 over invoice. Look at the cap costs, that is the selling price of the car, see how that compares to the invoice price of the car. You can calculate what interest rate is that you are paying. The biggest downer I have heard about leasing is the unknowns associated with the end of lease turn-in; the inspector determines if the condition of the car is within the terms of the lease for mileage, wear and tear, and etc.


    http://www.edmunds.com/advice/?id=lin9033

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,533
    What you need to negotiate down is the capitalized cost of the car (selling price), which will in turn lower your monthly payments.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    If you look on the mag-x.com website, you'll see they have information on changes to the Altezza. But this is in the headline only. The rest of the article should have been update on 7/26 but it was not. Hopefully they'll update the site so we can see what's in store for the Altezza/IS 300.
  • nschulman3nschulman3 Member Posts: 125
    My wife's IS 300 sportcross was in a major accident today. The car was hit head on at about 35 mph. Thankfully, (and most importantly) she was not hurt except for some minor bruises. The car more than held its own against a large van with metal bumpers. I can certainly vouch for the solidity of the car. Hopefully, the car will be considered a loss by the insurance company because my wife wouldn't feel comfortable driving a car that was in that kind of accident. She really enjoyed the car, but now we must decide what to get next.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Your wife might not want to drive the same car again, but if I walked away from an accident like that, I would go right out and buy the same car again, no questions asked. It pretty much saved her life, she might want the same car again because at least you have real-world test results with it.

    Glad to hear she was ok. Good luck.
  • lanaslanas Member Posts: 6
    I'm debating whether to buy 2002 IS300 manual now off the lot or wait for 2003 model. Does anyone know when they start selling 2003? if I choose to wait I might be tempted to order the BMW330CI (which usually takes 2 month to get) or wait till november to test the new Infiniti G35 coupe.
  • jimmys2jimmys2 Member Posts: 17
    My girlfriend just bought an 02 IS300 sedan and I wanted to change the chrome shifter knob for a leather one. (it gets hot in the sun). The dealer wants $110.00 for the leather knob, does anyone know if I can buy it from another supplier for less? Not that I'm cheap but it must be a helluva leather knob.
  • hkyhky Member Posts: 71
    How much should I offer for a sportscross with everything on it (including nav) and 4k miles on it.
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    That's a tough one. I have a SportCross and at the beginning of the year the cars were attainable at invoice and in some cases below invoice. They cut production after that along with the price so it was harder to get a rock bottom price.

    I would think that looking at the current invoice price for the car then deducting for the mileage would be a start. Try and get them to throw in the platinum extended warranty if you reach a price impasse; it is transferable and will increase the resale value.

    The O3s will be out the end of October so the car will be a year old used car in 60 days which will impact the value.

    I like my car a lot and the hatchback makes it much more usefull than a sedan.
  • hkyhky Member Posts: 71
    I called several dealers in the tx region, there's hardly any sportx, one salesman told me it is the entire south region (11 states). Lexus site don't even allow me to build one. I guess they must be waiting for the 03 to come out. Anyhow, found a 02 blk with pwr/leather / graphite wheel/wheel locks/cargo net for 30k with a 3.15 financing - hardly any haggling needed. Guess the price is fair.
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    Sounds like you did well to me.
    I have been doing a lot of business travel lately. After driving a rental car for several days it is always nice to plant my bottom back in the SportX. The seats breakin after a while and are more comfortable.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    My salesguy at the local dealership is speculating the the SportX will not return for '03.

    Anybody else hear that one? I'm determined to get one, but can't unload my coupe for a couple of months yet, and as hky points out the things are getting scarcer than hen's teeth!
  • kartahkartah Member Posts: 10
    Unfortunately the rear seats do not fold down, and instead it has a trunk pass through. Has anyone tried fitting a snowboard through?

    Which brings me to another question. How does the IS handle in snow conditions?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I have read in the past here that the car handles best in the snow when equipped with snow tires and the optional limited-slip differential (LSD).
  • endymionendymion Member Posts: 1
    I would appreciate any feedback on what people are paying for an IS300 with e-shift(auto)and these options leather/escaine, sunroof, 17 inch wheels, price negotiated before TTL. Also the city and state where purchased. Thanks
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Plugging an SF Bay Area zip code into CarsDirect comes up with $2600-2800 off MSRP; doing the same with a Southern CA zip yields a bit better results, $2800-$3100 off, depending on option load. These are the most competitive markets in the country, of course, but that's a place to start. CD has to earn a small commission for their efforts, so an individual retail customer who wants to bargain should be able to do even better.
  • kartahkartah Member Posts: 10
    I just went for a test drive this past weekend on the 2002 IS E-shift. Unfortunately, the dealership didn't have a manual for test drive. But the Automatic is sure smooooth. Didn't feel a thing on the engine, and rips up the road effortlessly.

    Just wondering, did anyone test drive a Manual. Or better yet, anyone owns a manual right now?
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    The biggest complaint I have with E-shift, and this is common for all cars of this type, is it doesn't apply to 1st gear. The shift logic will quickly shift to 2nd unless you are applying a lot of throttle. Other than that I really like the E-shift. The manual is a little faster and will provide more control over gear selection. I personally have grown tired of the manual lifestyle and can accept the tradeoffs with the E-shift. I find myself switching back and forth between full auto and E-shift several times every time I drive the car.

    Smooth is the word for the E-shift. I have ridden with and followed so many people who drive manuals so badly. They lack the ability to sync up with the gearing, clutch, and throttle. Riding with them is a continuous series of jerks and lurches. Sorta like golf, there are far more bad golfers than good ones.

    Even during my racing days there were always a lot of folks breaking transmissions, tearing up clutches. Shifting into the wrong gear and blowing something up. In most cases because they never really mastered the art of driving a manual.
  • kartahkartah Member Posts: 10
    I don't think you have to be a Pro to be driving a manual. But I definitely agree with you that there are more bad golfers than good ones out there.

    Speaking for myself, driving a manual is all about the feeling. The kind that you don't get from driving an automatic. Downshifting gears when you need the power, feeling that you're always in control. But still, swtich the gears is the most fun part. The only downside to driving a manul is living in the city. Because after a while, it becomes a workout for your left leg with all the traffic.

    I haven't done any damage to my transmission or tore up my clutch on my GTI yet. But I am just reluctant to be driving an automatic again.
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    I'm currently looking at sedans (to replace my Lexus RX300). I'd really like to get another Lexus, but the ES looks too much like a Camry.

    I like the IS, but those "chronograph style" gauges look SOOOOOO tacky (in my estimation).

    Is there any chance Lexus will be redesigning the dash in future years?
  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    My friend just bought a manual IS last month. I've been driving it quite a bit - loads of fun. Another friend has the E-shift and there is no comparison. The clutch and shifter are silky smooth, and the transmission is a gem! It really makes the car a lot more exciting to drive.

    I'm considering an IS for myself, but am probably going to go with a BMW 3-series because I prefer the ride a bit more. And the fact that I've had 3 Lexus (Lexi?) in a row ... it's time for a change.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,533
    The IS300 5 speed is also lower and comes with a more aggressively tuned suspension.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • bjtjpsbjtjps Member Posts: 15
    i wanted a manual just because i think it give you more control and is a lot more fun to drive. i didn't like the e-shift controls on the steering wheel in the '01 model i tested, but that is a matter of personal preference. in this segment there aren't many manual options. i think the shift is a little notchy compared to my old integra, but it just takes some getting used to (only had it for a month) - it is a blast to drive!
  • kartahkartah Member Posts: 10
    I know that the 17" wheels comes with summer tires, now is there no way the dealers can exchang those for all-season tires (besides the 16")? I'm assuming summer tires, as the name suggest, won't be able to handle snow? But I guess if I am buying the IS, which is about 10G less the 330ci, I can afford to change the tires myself.

    It looks like the manual is the pick of the day.
  • bjtjpsbjtjps Member Posts: 15
    aside from the 16" all season option, there isn't much option. the summer tires are reportedly awful in snow - i think many in areas with bad winters opt for actual snow tires rather than all seasons. the summer tires won't last long either - 20k or less, depending on your driving style, is what i've heard.
  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    I've driven my friend's IS with summer tires in the winter. It's a joke. No traction at all! I think the best bet is to either swap between winter and summer tires on the 17" rims, or get the summer tires on 17's and the all seasons on 16's and do the swap that way. Winter tires are fantastic on the IS in the snow, though!
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    An associate's wife went through her SportCross's summer tires in 13K miles.

    The replacement Kumhos he bought have gone 22K, are sticking nicely, and look to have another 10 in them, or so he says. In CA, around the Bay, there isn't much need for all-seasons!

    I have a feeling that second tire change can be put off a bit with a careful performance tire choice.
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