I had a 99 TL and it was outstanding with only a few problems over 7 years of use, so planned to replace it with another TL. The 3gen TL was appealing from it released so it was almost a no-brainer. My research and comparisons for a new car started in mid August, and the TL although there were a few negatives: - no auto on/off headlights - no one touch lane change indicator - separate FOB and key (even a 3 year old Jetta has an integrated key) - old style hand parking brake (old TL had a foot operated, and newer cars have electronic) - reported problems with rattles, dash fade, and other problems
Despite these, I just picked up my new 06 TL, and it is firm, tight, with no rattles. Time will tell if these have been resolved or improved with the 06. I plan to treat the dash regularly, so am not concerned about dash fade. If major problems develop, it will be replaced in a few years rather than another 7, but I am optimistic that improvements have been made.
The real culprit is the " Internet ". Years ago , we would all buy cars based on our own personal experiences and perhaps some family members and close friends and an occasional magazine article. Now it's the www., which really doesn't make it any easier.
One positive aspect is that the '06 TL is in its 3rd year ( not the first ), so perhaps Acura has addressed some of the above issues. I've always bought Maximas but,imho, the $22,000 Hyundai Sonata has a better looking interior than the current $30,000 Maxima.
One comment about the dash. In 44 years of owning and driving cars, I have NEVER applied any product to the dash of any vehicle and they have all looked good even after 10 yrs. of ownership. If a dash fades, it is more than likely a materials and/or manufacturing problem
I'm in the same boat as you but at some point I/we will have to plunk our money down. My$0.02
If I understand what people have been talking about dash fade.... First...the TL comes in a black dash....so I am visualizing that they are talking about the dash looking more dull...which then makes it look faded.
Many are using Armor All and it isn't as wet looking after time. What I have been using is 'Clear Guard' by Turtle Wax. It lasts long....and the dash looks as good as day one...even in sunny So California. Been using it in all my cars for the past decade with great results.
First of all , I don't really know what the actual complaint is with the dash. When I test drove the car, I noticed that the manufacturer had used a different texture (dull, matte finish) of material right above the gage cluster in an effort to cut down on windshield reflections. Very smart idea. I think people might be trying to apply various products to this area.
delmar: If ' Clear Guard ' works for you....great ! I have found that a damp cloth works for me....and its cheaper. Whatever floats your boat.
Congrats on your purchase - I love my '04 - I'm sure you'll love yours.
Regarding your concerns (no auto on/off headlights; no one touch lane change indicator), I agree with your disappointment re the auto headlights. I've started just leaving my lights on all the time. They do turn off automatically, so you needn't worry about battery drain.
Regarding the lane change, I'm not sure what that is. I heard BMW has something wheter you can tap the signal indicator and it'll blink just a few times. The reviewer where I read that didn't like the feature, saying that lane-change signalling is an easy thing to do as is, and BMWs change made him feel the need to constantly look at the dash to confirm he used the proper pressure. For that reason, I'm glad Acura didn't incorporate it.
My '05 6MT turned 1 year old this week and has 34K miles. No problems except an airbag lite that needed a new sensor. I also have and '01TL that my wife and daughter drive, and love. It has been fine. It's just that the '05 is sooo much better than the '01 in many ways (esp. the seats. I sit ON the '01 and IN the '05). I really don't think that reliability is or will be a problem with any Honda/Acura, esp an '06. Just my $.02
Can someone confirm if the TL will have a new body style in 07? Several posts on this forum suggest that to be the case however, I was not able to find anything concrete?
I have no facts either way about a new body style in 07, and I doubt anyone does. Relaiable information on the 06 MDX, which was rumored to be being redesigned, was not available until a couple of months ago. And it was not redesigned at all.
My hunch is that the current TL body will stay as is for at least amnother 3-4 years. That's consistent with Acura's product cycle. And, unlike the somewhat bland MDX, the current TL is being credited with being the best looking Acura in decades. If it's not broken, why would they try to fix it. Now, if they want to have a sport version, with RWD and a "real" 300 +/- horspeower version (i.e. M3 vs. 330i), I'd be first in line. But there is absolutely nothing I would change about the shape or look of the exterior.
Can someone confirm if the TL will have a new body style in 07
Agreed with Habitat - how can any of us have a reliable clue at this point? My recollection of prior discussions was not that the TL would have a redesigned exterior for '07, but that they would incorporate AWD and various other improvements. Still, it's just a guess.
Delmar, I just checked the Turtle Wax website and they don't list any product as Clear Guard, nor is their anything similar. THink maybe they stopped making your product? Turtle Wax Website
The previous generation TL had the same body style for 5 years (99-03). The one before that for 4 years (95-98). Considering that the current design is 2 years old, more likely that Acura will give it a new face in 2-3 years. I was just asking since several posts suggested a new design in 07.
I am at a crossroad . . . can't decide between the 06 TL and 325i. Each has it's attributes and drawbacks. To me, the TL has no face . . . it just blends in with other accords and the like on the road. BMW on the other hand has an unmistakable look (well, maybe mistakable with a 5 series). But it has distinct styling and the 325 just looks apart from the rest. Performance wise, slight edge for the BMW. Definitely feel more kick on the acceleration / passing, namely due to higher low end torque and RWD. Handling is a bit tighter/responsive in the 325 as well. With virtually any FWD car you feel the speed as the steering wheel gives back some feedback. I was going 85 in 325 and it felt like I was doing 55. Nice on one hand but then kind of dangerous on the other.
Interior wise, the TL wins hands down. Superb leather, well designed console, gauges, excellent stereo, many extras. BMW's interior is very plain and in my view crude in comparison to the TL. BMW's leather is rougher than their vinyl/letherret interior. Stitching must have been done by someone with 2 left arms. Sitting on letherret during summer must be horrible. In snow, the TL will handle better than the 325 (all season tires).
Reliability wise, both are questionable. An acquaintance bought a TL that turned out to be lemon. BMW, not exactly known for their reliability is in the first year with the new 3 series design. I purchase my cars and tend to keep them 6-8 years so reliability is important. At the BMW dealership, I asked the salesman what he thought about reliability (just to gauge his reaction) . . . you should have seen him the guy couldn't get a sentence out and stuttered a bit. Essentially telling me that if there is a mechanical issue he hopes BMW will address it. Well now, thats reassuring.
"how can any of us have a reliable clue at this point?"
Editorials, spy shots. For example, most know that camry will have a new design for 07 (arriving fall of 06) and knew for some time now. As I am new to this forum, just thought that people might know something that I didn't.
Sounds like you've got a good handle on the comparison of the 325 w/ the TL, although I thought only the 330 was "better" than the TL in terms of speed. In spite of what you may read on the "Problems" forum, I think the TL is a quality product and would be a safe bet, particularly in its 3rd year.
1 aspect I didn't see you comment on was size. Is that becasue it doesn't matter to you? Guess if you don't plan on having anyone in your backseat regularly, then it won't enter into your equation, but if you have kids or travel regularly with another couple, I think you'd need to give the TL the edge in that comparison. If you don't need the space, you might prefer the 3, as it'll be easier to manuever and find parking spots.
Regarding the lane change, I'm not sure what that is. I heard BMW has something wheter you can tap the signal indicator and it'll blink just a few times. The reviewer where I read that didn't like the feature, saying that lane-change signalling is an easy thing to do as is, and BMWs change made him feel the need to constantly look at the dash to confirm he used the proper pressure.Yes it is the tap of the signal indicator. In the TL, a slight press and hold will turn on the signal. Press a bit more and it goes the the lock position, released manually or by turning the wheel.
In cars from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and possibly others, the first position activated the turn signal for 3 or 4 blinks. I have driven cars with this feature and found it quite natural, and I do not have to look at the dash for confirmation. Once you have experienced it, you do not want to go back to press and hold.
"although I thought only the 330 was "better" than the TL in terms of speed."
To me the 325 was a bit edgier but not by much. You feel a kick/power from the back and pins you down once you step on it. With the TL the power comes from the front so the effect is not that strong but is definitely there. Didn't test drive a 330 since it is out of the price range I am comfortable with. All of the magazine reviews I have read compare the performance of 330 in comparison to others (TL, G35, Audi, MB).
The size difference was certainly noticeable. Not only in the back seat but in the drivers seat as well. Thats understandable considering that the TL is a mid-size and the 3 series being a compact sedan. Room is important but not critical. 90% of the time I drive alone . . . as long as 2 people can fit comfortably in the back, thats fine. Probably cant go below 3 series to be considered comfortably . . . thats what got the IS off my list.
The new IS is tighter than the 3-series in both the front and back seats. Whether the front seats of the IS fits you will depend on your personal preference. As for the back seats though, on the BMW they are barely adequate for "normal" size adults - in the IS they are strictly for kids - with the driver seat adjusted for me (I'm 5'9), there was barely enough room to get my feet ( turned sideways!) down in the back seat area.
Acura TL: the worst car we have ever owned in our combined 80+ years of driving.
We bought this vehicle (VIN 19YYA56601A000813, might as well give it, because we would never dream of selling this dud to anyone but acura) from an Albuquerque dealer, Montana Acura, in the fall of 2000, not realizing we were embarking on our worst ever experience as consumers and car owners, four years of misery and frustration and inconvenience.
We had had an Acura before and our experience did not contradict their reputation for reliability and service and lead us to expect more. We had no idea what we were in for in our hopeless quest for peace of mind and a warning free dashboard display.
It began small, as these things do. First it was just the “check engine” light. The problem was remedied by replacing the oxygen sensor each of the three times. First time was in Dallas (the thing has a nasty habit of failing far from home in the middle of vacation, and if you think they offer you a loaner, think again, plan for a pleasant day at the dealers, the time in Syracuse with two dogs in route to a Thanksgiving weekend was the best). The third time we only had to drive the 125 miles each way to Albuquerque to get it replaced. Three times and holding.
Then most recently there was the traction control/antilocking brake warning light which indicates you may or may not have antilock brakes, or brakes at all. This one has been coming on since day one, and we have noted the problem every time we had it in. Sometimes it would stay off until we were thirty miles north of Albuquerque.
After they finally replaced the control module, bled the system and guaranteed me it was fixed, I was able to make it about two miles, to the expressway entrance, before I had to turn around and go back. They kept it over 30 days. We heard, when we called (they never called us with status) that they were replacing the wiring harness, my suggestion, not theirs. They did provide a rental car this time, instead of just leaving us with one car, a Mitsubishi Galant (if we wanted to drive a Galant, we would have bought one). They pretty much had to; I was returning from a trip alone and had left the car with them for repair (actually non-repair). I would have had no way to get home.
Before that it was the defective transmission. It too was replaced under warranty; aren’t we lucky. And they rented us a Ford Escape ! ! ! The transmission was defective from assembly, symptoms being the unpleasant sensation that the car had dropped out of gear, re-engaging when you tried to accelerate.
We thought “they were just all like that” (unlike our 1988 Legend) until we saw the service bulletin. They thought it was serious and dangerous enough, that they didn’t let me drive it home, got me the rental and kept it until they could get the parts. I’ve forgotten how many weeks. We just received another notice that the 4th gear of our transmission may be defective, but we haven’t had the heart to call about it yet. It will surely require another trip to Albuquerque to get it checked out.
And then there was the Safety Restraint System light, also on almost from the day we got it. We brought it in, I think, only three times for that, before they “replaced the computer” (sometimes they referred to it as a module). I am pretty sure that was the third time because I remember the service manager explaining they couldn’t do it until the car had come back the third time for the same problem.
We have to take two cars (thank goodness we have two) on these pleasure trips, unless we want to spend the day at the dealers, or in case they want to keep it, 750 miles total driving, wear and tear, on us and our vehicles: two trips on the Suburu and one on the Acura. See how we got up to 39,000 miles. Our other car has over a hundred thousand (including the "Acura miles"), never in the shop except for scheduled maintenance; it's a Suburu outback.
I guess Acura just hopes people will give up in frustration forget about it and ignore their instruments. And that they won’t be in a serious accident, or that, if they are, they will be killed and their heirs won’t know about the faulty safety restraint system, or the defective brakes and transmission, and won’t think to sue.
It’s hardly worth mentioning the defective seat heater (It worked for awhile. What do you expect? They did fix it the first time). It didn’t put us at risk. It was just another example of not getting what you pay for when you buy from Acura.
And now the leather upholstery has stared to crack even though we have used an expensive conditioning cleaner to maintain it. And I don’t mean a tear or puncture: The seat has just split open, a ragged crack about four inches long on the door side of the drivers seat. The first thing you see when you open the door of this “luxury” sedan is two strips of duct tape.
If we hadn’t been so patient about driving back and forth and working with the dealer on this lemon, I understand we would be in a better position legally. As it is, we are at the mercy of a company and dealer who are basically blowing us off and leaving us in a vehicle patched together from spare parts.
But they are new spare parts, and guess what, under warranty.
My advice: If you don’t have an Acura, don’t buy one. If you do, take it in for service early and often if you have any problems and establish a history. In my experience, they do honor the warranty even as they flaunt their indifference to the lemon laws. They don’t stand behind their product, but they do fulfill the letter of the warranty.
Engine systems defective: oxygen sensors replaced under warranty.
Braking System defective: Traction control system/antilock brake warning light has been on as much as off since we bought it, after multiple return for various attempts at correcting the problem, computer module and wiring harnessed replaced under warranty
Safety Restraint system defective: warning light on almost constantly since we have owned it, computer module finally replaced under warranty after many returns to the dealer
Transmission defective: replaced under warranty.
Wiring Harness defective: replaced under warranty after multiple symptoms and returns.
Other defective systems: seat heater, switch replaced under warranty.
"To me, the TL has no face . . . it just blends in with other accords and the like on the road. "
I disagree. To me, the RL is an Accord look-alike, but the TL is one of the cars Acura got right. It is very unique and quite attractive IMO to exterior appearance. I remember the 1st time I saw one, it was in my parking garage and I had to stop to find out what car it was. I was shocked to find out it was an Acura which was usually frumpy, boring styling.
I also, would give the nod to the TL in terms of reliability. In general, I think most all would agree that Acura's are more reliable than BMW's over the last 5 years. There are always exceptions to the rule and on a rare instance, one may get a lemon :lemon: but to judge the entire series based on one car is premature.
That being said, I agree with you that the BMW drives better and is an overall fun car and also very nice looking on the outside (boring and primitive on the inside).
Guess it comes down to whether you prefer performance (BMW) or interior luxury (TL).
Welcome to the Edmunds boards, Stebmarc.Sorry you've had such a headache with your TL. Unfortunately, a reputation for quality/reliability does not guarantee you will not get a lemon. Merely that a lemon is the exception, not the rule. Currently 4 Acura's in my family (My '05 TL, Dad's '04 TL, Bro's '03 TL and MDX. My Dad's '04 TL replaced his '03 he was so smitten by the new version) with nary a major issue or complaint to report. Knock (faux) wood...
My family has a long history of Honda/Acura (as well as Datsun/Nissan, Mitsubishi & Lexus). Same story, not much to report but quality and reliability. Then again, my '99 300M was perfectly reliable. Not built to Japaneese standards, but a car I very much enjoyed.
I, too, think this latest iteration of the TL is Honda/Acura's best styling job since the original Legend Coupe. The current RL is handsome, but generically so. It does kinda blend in to a sea of Honda sedans...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
why in the world do you think he's lying? seems like it would be an awful lot of effort to make this up! acura has historically had a great reputation for reliability, but the tl is one model that seems to be putting that reputation at risk. i'm not saying this from personal experience - it's just what i've read on this and other acura boards
He didn't strike me as lying. If he was, he's a pretty darn good liar because he sounded pretty genuine to me. All the problems he described are entirely plausible.
If this catalog of reported defects is true, you obviously got a lemon and an exceptional lemon at that.
That being said, I hardly think your experience is typical of other Acura TL owners. The '06 iteration ought to be pretty well problem-free and a significant improvement over the quality and reliability levels of most all the German cars with the BMW's being the best of a basically unreliable lot.
The IS is positively tiny in all respects with regard to interior dimensions, both front and back. The operative word is CRAMPED.
The Lexus IS will become known as the premium compact sports sedan for little people.
Combined with its outrageous price, particularly in Canada, I expect it to be a rather poor seller unless you are 5' feet tall and weigh no more than 110 lb.
I didn't realize it is that cramped. I haven't sat in one. But looking at the photos (exterior and interior), my initial impression was that it was comparable to the new 3-series. And coupled with the Lexus reliability, I thought it was worth considering since, even though it is more expensive than the TL, it still undercuts the 3-series. But if it has less room than even the 3-series....
but the tl is one model that seems to be putting that reputation at risk. i'm not saying this from personal experience
How could a car that is a lemon be putting the whole entire brand at risk. There will always be a specific individual vehicle that is a lemon. And unfortunately the one person got it. Lemons appear in all makes and models.
Best of all...all the problem posts here you have to take it with a grain of salt. You will only hear the problems here. So if there is a less than 1% error rate...you will hear a subset of the 1% error rate...and rarely hear of the 99% that don't have the problem. I wouldn't rely on what you read here...l would leave the reliablility analysis to Consumer Reports that takes a wider sampling to give me a more educated data for analysis.
I didn't realize it is that cramped. I haven't sat in one. But looking at the photos (exterior and interior), my initial impression was that it was comparable to the new 3-series.
Yes, it is that cramped! Go sit in one, first in the front seat, then in the back. You'll be amazed (in a negative way). It is substantially smaller than the 3 series and even smaller than that when compared to the TL.
According to the C&D Sports Sedan comparison in the October 2005 issue, the volume of the rear seat in the IS is 34 cubic feet while that of the BMW 330 is 41, i.e. 20% larger, while that of the TL is 42 or 24% larger. The front seat of the IS is 52 cubic feet while that of the BMW is 50 cubic feet while the TL is 56.
But it's not only the gross volume that is of importance (although by that metric the IS is significantly smaller than either the BMW or the Acura and in fact is the smallest of all 8 cars in the test), but it is also the shape, lay-out and ergonomics of the interior which give the impression of space or lack thereof. The rear of the IS is cramped by any definition. That is not even open to discussion unless you are a little person. But as regards the front seat, the AWD 250 has a large hump to the right of the transmission tunnel which intrudes on right leg space, the distance between the left elbow and the door is excessively small, the console to the right further intrudes on the driver's cabin space, the seat is not particularly accommodating (one sits "on" rather than "in") and the controls such as the audio volume and tuning dials are in miniature as well as other controls. Even the center console and the cupholder volumes are small. The front headroom in the model with a sunroof is 37.2" vs. 38.7" in the TL (I am unable to locate stats for the BMW), the rear headroom is 36.7" vs. 37.2" in the TL.
In my estimation it does not matter how good the fit and finish or how high the reliability or how quick the acceleration, one simply cannot get by the extremely cramped space to enjoy the other potential attributes.
And insofar as price is concerned, particularly in Canada, the absence of stand-alone options and price progression structure for the most desired options, make the car even less attractive. A fully optioned IS 350 (and fully it must be to obtain ML and Nav!) is approx. CDN$20,000 higher than a comparably equipped TL and this does not take into consideration price discounts which may be obtained on the TL as I doubt the Lexus dealer would come off the price much, if at all. When compared to the 2006 BMW 330i, the IS 350 is slightly more expensive but again that does not take into consideration possible dealer discounts on the 330.
I don't see the IS as a good buy unless you are a little person with a big wallet!
As I pulled up to an early 300E (late 1980's?) the other day, it became readily apparant to me how much larger all cars have become. This was close to a $50k car when it was intorduced ( a friend bought one way back), and it looks smaller than today's 3 series or C-class by a substantial margin.
If I am not mistaken, the current 3 series is larger in interior than a 1995 5-series. And a current 5 -series, is larger than a 1980's 7-series. A 2005 Honda Civic is definitely larger than previous generations of Accord. I'd even bet that the current TL is larger than the old Legend by a healthy amount.
So, although I have no interest in the IS, let alone any Buick (er, I mean Lexus), I find the assessment that, as a sports sedan/coupe it is "cramped" an interesting perspective on how times have changed. I am quite certain that, as small as it sounds, it might not be that much, if any, smaller than the original Mercedes E-class (luxury sedan) that I saw the other day.
Although this is a useful trend for cars, I am hoping that with a better running and work out regimen, I can keep my personal rear seat from growing in the same proportion.
I'd like to get an idea of the kind of gas mileage to be expected with a 3rd. gen TL(auto). In particular, people who drive ~70% highway and the rest mixed driving. Does 24-25 mpg sound reasonable?
Also, with mostly highway driving, how does the paint on the front end hold up against stone chips and such (particularly the vinyl bumper). I've used the 3M Clearmask products on previous cars with great success but if the paint on the front end of a TL is good , I can spare myself the expense.
Re gas mileage, your range sounds very reasonable. I base that on my driving, which is about 80% city driving (stop and go, hard accelleration and deceleration), 15% local driving (short trips, but not stop-and-go) and 5% highway. I generally get 21 mpg.
24-25 mpg is very do'able. I would venture to say you will be about 26mpg with the percentage of highway. Now...the key is to understand that your first 3,000 miles will not be with great mpg...and you will be concerned with the results. But it does get better. That includes greater than 33mpg on the freeway.
I, too, think your estimages are good. I commute 40 miles/day, 60% highway (but usually lots of slow down/speed up, average probably 40mph?) and get ~23mpg.
The pure highway mpg for the TL is excellent, imo.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I commute on i-95 from Central DE to Philly( 90 miles each way) and I average 25 to 28mph with the A/C always on. I have noticed an excessive amount of stone chips on the hood and front fenders, not so much on the front bumper. The windshield also seems to be a magnet for stones.
This is an interesting discussion and one that is also on-going in the IS forum, but here is any interesting fact: If you go into the "Compare Vehicles" section when doing research about the TL, the IS is not listed as a comparo to the TL, but rather the ES is there. This maybe just due to the "newness" of the IS, but IMO the 3 series BMW is also not truly comparable to the TL (thou many here would probably argue that, and many actual comparisons have been done between the two). The TL is a larger sedan than either Bimmer or the IS.
If you look at the 3 series BMW, the A4 Audi's and the IS level Lexus then you are comparing much more closely sized closely matching performance vehicles. I would personally compare the TSX to the IS, but really the IS 350 is way out of the league of the TSX, and only the IS 250 would be a reasonable comparo (I'm sure I will be flamed for this heresy - Fire suite on).
The reason why the Lexus IS is not compared to the TL is in the past at the Acura website...the IS was more of a TSX or A4. Only this year did Lexus come out with the IS350 which is a comp to the TL.
You got it correct...the IS250 is more comparable to the TSX. Just that the IS has two different engine options.
Basically....it is rather difficult to create a generic comparison set...and that is why the site allows the user to customize to compare to any vehicle.
Thanks to all who responded re:gas mileage. I will definitely install the 3M Clearmask on my next vehicle, whatever it happens to be ( it's worth the money). I'm not at all a fan of the vinyl nose bras.
I agree with your assessment that true car comparisons need to consider vehicle size. I believe that the G35 and TL are really more comparable to the BMW 5 series and Audi A6. However, most people's comparisons (including my own) are based 1st on price, and then on the cars within that price reange. In that light, I can see why people considering the TL would also look at the IS and BMW 3.
"I believe that the G35 and TL are really more comparable to the BMW 5 series and Audi A6. "
I own an A6 and my wife owns a TL. I love both of them, but I would not compare the TL to the A6 as the A6 is a much larger vehicle. They are in definitely different size categories. Back seat room in the A6 is spacious, there are vents thru both the B-pillars as well as the middle "hump" control unit, and there are seat warmers. The backseat of the TL is acceptable, but not something I'd want to drive in for more than a short trip, certainly not more than 30 minutes.
Both are excellent vehicles, and in fact, I much prefer the voice activation and nav on the TL over the Audi. I think both have very nice luxurious interiors as well. Just different creatures.
I love both of them, but I would not compare the TL to the A6 as the A6 is a much larger vehicle. They are in definitely different size categories.
Actually, this is not correct. The TL and the A6 have exactly the same size interiors: 97.9 cubic feet. The TL does have a smaller trunk at 12.5 cubic feet vs. 15.9 for the A6.
The marginal sound quality that the Ipod gets thru a tape adapter in the TL is getting old. Is there another solution/kit/aftermarket gadget I could buy? I have an 05 navi.
Don't confuse cubic feet of area with usable space to sit. The A6 is over 4" longer in wheelbase (or total length) than the TL and has 2 more inches rear leg room than the TL. This may seem insignificant, but to me it is very noticeable in my personal experience. Looking at the cars you described, the TL and G35, the biggest difference is the back seat room, which is different from the A6, RL, and 5 Series.
Actually, your link shows that the TL in fact has just a little less interior legroom space than the A6 and a little more than the 5 Series. Since the front seat is adjustable, it makes more sense to add the front and rear legroom together. Doing that results in the TL having .5" less legroom space than the A6 and .2" more than the 5 Series.
Comments
- no auto on/off headlights
- no one touch lane change indicator
- separate FOB and key (even a 3 year old Jetta has an integrated key)
- old style hand parking brake (old TL had a foot operated, and newer cars have electronic)
- reported problems with rattles, dash fade, and other problems
Despite these, I just picked up my new 06 TL, and it is firm, tight, with no rattles. Time will tell if these have been resolved or improved with the 06. I plan to treat the dash regularly, so am not concerned about dash fade. If major problems develop, it will be replaced in a few years rather than another 7, but I am optimistic that improvements have been made.
Right now I am happy with my choice.
One positive aspect is that the '06 TL is in its 3rd year ( not the first ), so perhaps Acura has addressed some of the above issues. I've always bought Maximas but,imho, the $22,000 Hyundai Sonata has a better looking interior than the current $30,000 Maxima.
One comment about the dash. In 44 years of owning and driving cars, I have NEVER applied any product to the dash of any vehicle and they have all looked good even after 10 yrs. of ownership. If a dash fades, it is more than likely a materials and/or manufacturing problem
I'm in the same boat as you but at some point I/we will have to plunk our money down. My$0.02
Many are using Armor All and it isn't as wet looking after time. What I have been using is 'Clear Guard' by Turtle Wax. It lasts long....and the dash looks as good as day one...even in sunny So California. Been using it in all my cars for the past decade with great results.
delmar: If ' Clear Guard ' works for you....great ! I have found that a damp cloth works for me....and its cheaper. Whatever floats your boat.
Regarding your concerns (no auto on/off headlights; no one touch lane change indicator), I agree with your disappointment re the auto headlights. I've started just leaving my lights on all the time. They do turn off automatically, so you needn't worry about battery drain.
Regarding the lane change, I'm not sure what that is. I heard BMW has something wheter you can tap the signal indicator and it'll blink just a few times. The reviewer where I read that didn't like the feature, saying that lane-change signalling is an easy thing to do as is, and BMWs change made him feel the need to constantly look at the dash to confirm he used the proper pressure. For that reason, I'm glad Acura didn't incorporate it.
Just my $.02
2025 Toyota Crown Signia Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT
My hunch is that the current TL body will stay as is for at least amnother 3-4 years. That's consistent with Acura's product cycle. And, unlike the somewhat bland MDX, the current TL is being credited with being the best looking Acura in decades. If it's not broken, why would they try to fix it. Now, if they want to have a sport version, with RWD and a "real" 300 +/- horspeower version (i.e. M3 vs. 330i), I'd be first in line. But there is absolutely nothing I would change about the shape or look of the exterior.
Agreed with Habitat - how can any of us have a reliable clue at this point? My recollection of prior discussions was not that the TL would have a redesigned exterior for '07, but that they would incorporate AWD and various other improvements. Still, it's just a guess.
I am at a crossroad . . . can't decide between the 06 TL and 325i. Each has it's attributes and drawbacks. To me, the TL has no face . . . it just blends in with other accords and the like on the road. BMW on the other hand has an unmistakable look (well, maybe mistakable with a 5 series). But it has distinct styling and the 325 just looks apart from the rest. Performance wise, slight edge for the BMW. Definitely feel more kick on the acceleration / passing, namely due to higher low end torque and RWD. Handling is a bit tighter/responsive in the 325 as well. With virtually any FWD car you feel the speed as the steering wheel gives back some feedback. I was going 85 in 325 and it felt like I was doing 55. Nice on one hand but then kind of dangerous on the other.
Interior wise, the TL wins hands down. Superb leather, well designed console, gauges, excellent stereo, many extras. BMW's interior is very plain and in my view crude in comparison to the TL. BMW's leather is rougher than their vinyl/letherret interior. Stitching must have been done by someone with 2 left arms. Sitting on letherret during summer must be horrible. In snow, the TL will handle better than the 325 (all season tires).
Reliability wise, both are questionable. An acquaintance bought a TL that turned out to be lemon. BMW, not exactly known for their reliability is in the first year with the new 3 series design. I purchase my cars and tend to keep them 6-8 years so reliability is important. At the BMW dealership, I asked the salesman what he thought about reliability (just to gauge his reaction) . . . you should have seen him the guy couldn't get a sentence out and stuttered a bit. Essentially telling me that if there is a mechanical issue he hopes BMW will address it. Well now, thats reassuring.
Editorials, spy shots. For example, most know that camry will have a new design for 07 (arriving fall of 06) and knew for some time now. As I am new to this forum, just thought that people might know something that I didn't.
1 aspect I didn't see you comment on was size. Is that becasue it doesn't matter to you? Guess if you don't plan on having anyone in your backseat regularly, then it won't enter into your equation, but if you have kids or travel regularly with another couple, I think you'd need to give the TL the edge in that comparison. If you don't need the space, you might prefer the 3, as it'll be easier to manuever and find parking spots.
In cars from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and possibly others, the first position activated the turn signal for 3 or 4 blinks. I have driven cars with this feature and found it quite natural, and I do not have to look at the dash for confirmation. Once you have experienced it, you do not want to go back to press and hold.
To me the 325 was a bit edgier but not by much. You feel a kick/power from the back and pins you down once you step on it. With the TL the power comes from the front so the effect is not that strong but is definitely there. Didn't test drive a 330 since it is out of the price range I am comfortable with. All of the magazine reviews I have read compare the performance of 330 in comparison to others (TL, G35, Audi, MB).
The size difference was certainly noticeable. Not only in the back seat but in the drivers seat as well. Thats understandable considering that the TL is a mid-size and the 3 series being a compact sedan. Room is important but not critical. 90% of the time I drive alone . . . as long as 2 people can fit comfortably in the back, thats fine. Probably cant go below 3 series to be considered comfortably . . . thats what got the IS off my list.
Acura TL: the worst car we have ever owned in our combined 80+ years of driving.
We bought this vehicle (VIN 19YYA56601A000813, might as well give it, because we would never dream of selling this dud to anyone but acura) from an Albuquerque dealer, Montana Acura, in the fall of 2000, not realizing we were embarking on our worst ever experience as consumers and car owners, four years of misery and frustration and inconvenience.
We had had an Acura before and our experience did not contradict their reputation for reliability and service and lead us to expect more. We had no idea what we were in for in our hopeless quest for peace of mind and a warning free dashboard display.
It began small, as these things do. First it was just the “check engine” light. The problem was remedied by replacing the oxygen sensor each of the three times. First time was in Dallas (the thing has a nasty habit of failing far from home in the middle of vacation, and if you think they offer you a loaner, think again, plan for a pleasant day at the dealers, the time in Syracuse with two dogs in route to a Thanksgiving weekend was the best). The third time we only had to drive the 125 miles each way to Albuquerque to get it replaced. Three times and holding.
Then most recently there was the traction control/antilocking brake warning light which indicates you may or may not have antilock brakes, or brakes at all. This one has been coming on since day one, and we have noted the problem every time we had it in. Sometimes it would stay off until we were thirty miles north of Albuquerque.
After they finally replaced the control module, bled the system and guaranteed me it was fixed, I was able to make it about two miles, to the expressway entrance, before I had to turn around and go back. They kept it over 30 days. We heard, when we called (they never called us with status) that they were replacing the wiring harness, my suggestion, not theirs. They did provide a rental car this time, instead of just leaving us with one car, a Mitsubishi Galant (if we wanted to drive a Galant, we would have bought one). They pretty much had to; I was returning from a trip alone and had left the car with them for repair (actually non-repair). I would have had no way to get home.
Before that it was the defective transmission. It too was replaced under warranty; aren’t we lucky. And they rented us a Ford Escape ! ! ! The transmission was defective from assembly, symptoms being the unpleasant sensation that the car had dropped out of gear, re-engaging when you tried to accelerate.
We thought “they were just all like that” (unlike our 1988 Legend) until we saw the service bulletin. They thought it was serious and dangerous enough, that they didn’t let me drive it home, got me the rental and kept it until they could get the parts. I’ve forgotten how many weeks. We just received another notice that the 4th gear of our transmission may be defective, but we haven’t had the heart to call about it yet. It will surely require another trip to Albuquerque to get it checked out.
And then there was the Safety Restraint System light, also on almost from the day we got it. We brought it in, I think, only three times for that, before they “replaced the computer” (sometimes they referred to it as a module). I am pretty sure that was the third time because I remember the service manager explaining they couldn’t do it until the car had come back the third time for the same problem.
We have to take two cars (thank goodness we have two) on these pleasure trips, unless we want to spend the day at the dealers, or in case they want to keep it, 750 miles total driving, wear and tear, on us and our vehicles: two trips on the Suburu and one on the Acura. See how we got up to 39,000 miles. Our other car has over a hundred thousand (including the "Acura miles"), never in the shop except for scheduled maintenance; it's a Suburu outback.
I guess Acura just hopes people will give up in frustration forget about it and ignore their instruments. And that they won’t be in a serious accident, or that, if they are, they will be killed and their heirs won’t know about the faulty safety restraint system, or the defective brakes and transmission, and won’t think to sue.
It’s hardly worth mentioning the defective seat heater (It worked for awhile. What do you expect? They did fix it the first time). It didn’t put us at risk. It was just another example of not getting what you pay for when you buy from Acura.
And now the leather upholstery has stared to crack even though we have used an expensive conditioning cleaner to maintain it. And I don’t mean a tear or puncture: The seat has just split open, a ragged crack about four inches long on the door side of the drivers seat. The first thing you see when you open the door of this “luxury” sedan is two strips of duct tape.
If we hadn’t been so patient about driving back and forth and working with the dealer on this lemon, I understand we would be in a better position legally. As it is, we are at the mercy of a company and dealer who are basically blowing us off and leaving us in a vehicle patched together from spare parts.
But they are new spare parts, and guess what, under warranty.
My advice: If you don’t have an Acura, don’t buy one. If you do, take it in for service early and often if you have any problems and establish a history. In my experience, they do honor the warranty even as they flaunt their indifference to the lemon laws. They don’t stand behind their product, but they do fulfill the letter of the warranty.
Engine systems defective: oxygen sensors replaced under warranty.
Braking System defective: Traction control system/antilock brake warning light has been on as much as off since we bought it, after multiple return for various attempts at correcting the problem, computer module and wiring harnessed replaced under warranty
Safety Restraint system defective: warning light on almost constantly since we have owned it, computer module finally replaced under warranty after many returns to the dealer
Transmission defective: replaced under warranty.
Wiring Harness defective: replaced under warranty after multiple symptoms and returns.
Other defective systems: seat heater, switch replaced under warranty.
Upholstery defective.
I disagree. To me, the RL is an Accord look-alike, but the TL is one of the cars Acura got right. It is very unique and quite attractive IMO to exterior appearance. I remember the 1st time I saw one, it was in my parking garage and I had to stop to find out what car it was. I was shocked to find out it was an Acura which was usually frumpy, boring styling.
I also, would give the nod to the TL in terms of reliability. In general, I think most all would agree that Acura's are more reliable than BMW's over the last 5 years. There are always exceptions to the rule and on a rare instance, one may get a lemon :lemon: but to judge the entire series based on one car is premature.
That being said, I agree with you that the BMW drives better and is an overall fun car and also very nice looking on the outside (boring and primitive on the inside).
Guess it comes down to whether you prefer performance (BMW) or interior luxury (TL).
Good luck with this fun decision.
My family has a long history of Honda/Acura (as well as Datsun/Nissan, Mitsubishi & Lexus). Same story, not much to report but quality and reliability. Then again, my '99 300M was perfectly reliable. Not built to Japaneese standards, but a car I very much enjoyed.
I, too, think this latest iteration of the TL is Honda/Acura's best styling job since the original Legend Coupe. The current RL is handsome, but generically so. It does kinda blend in to a sea of Honda sedans...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
That being said, I hardly think your experience is typical of other Acura TL owners. The '06 iteration ought to be pretty well problem-free and a significant improvement over the quality and reliability levels of most all the German cars with the BMW's being the best of a basically unreliable lot.
The Lexus IS will become known as the premium compact sports sedan for little people.
Combined with its outrageous price, particularly in Canada, I expect it to be a rather poor seller unless you are 5' feet tall and weigh no more than 110 lb.
How could a car that is a lemon be putting the whole entire brand at risk. There will always be a specific individual vehicle that is a lemon. And unfortunately the one person got it. Lemons appear in all makes and models.
Best of all...all the problem posts here you have to take it with a grain of salt. You will only hear the problems here. So if there is a less than 1% error rate...you will hear a subset of the 1% error rate...and rarely hear of the 99% that don't have the problem. I wouldn't rely on what you read here...l would leave the reliablility analysis to Consumer Reports that takes a wider sampling to give me a more educated data for analysis.
Yes, it is that cramped! Go sit in one, first in the front seat, then in the back. You'll be amazed (in a negative way). It is substantially smaller than the 3 series and even smaller than that when compared to the TL.
According to the C&D Sports Sedan comparison in the October 2005 issue, the volume of the rear seat in the IS is 34 cubic feet while that of the BMW 330 is 41, i.e. 20% larger, while that of the TL is 42 or 24% larger. The front seat of the IS is 52 cubic feet while that of the BMW is 50 cubic feet while the TL is 56.
But it's not only the gross volume that is of importance (although by that metric the IS is significantly smaller than either the BMW or the Acura and in fact is the smallest of all 8 cars in the test), but it is also the shape, lay-out and ergonomics of the interior which give the impression of space or lack thereof. The rear of the IS is cramped by any definition. That is not even open to discussion unless you are a little person. But as regards the front seat, the AWD 250 has a large hump to the right of the transmission tunnel which intrudes on right leg space, the distance between the left elbow and the door is excessively small, the console to the right further intrudes on the driver's cabin space, the seat is not particularly accommodating (one sits "on" rather than "in") and the controls such as the audio volume and tuning dials are in miniature as well as other controls. Even the center console and the cupholder volumes are small. The front headroom in the model with a sunroof is 37.2" vs. 38.7" in the TL (I am unable to locate stats for the BMW), the rear headroom is 36.7" vs. 37.2" in the TL.
In my estimation it does not matter how good the fit and finish or how high the reliability or how quick the acceleration, one simply cannot get by the extremely cramped space to enjoy the other potential attributes.
And insofar as price is concerned, particularly in Canada, the absence of stand-alone options and price progression structure for the most desired options, make the car even less attractive. A fully optioned IS 350 (and fully it must be to obtain ML and Nav!) is approx. CDN$20,000 higher than a comparably equipped TL and this does not take into consideration price discounts which may be obtained on the TL as I doubt the Lexus dealer would come off the price much, if at all. When compared to the 2006 BMW 330i, the IS 350 is slightly more expensive but again that does not take into consideration possible dealer discounts on the 330.
I don't see the IS as a good buy unless you are a little person with a big wallet!
If I am not mistaken, the current 3 series is larger in interior than a 1995 5-series. And a current 5 -series, is larger than a 1980's 7-series. A 2005 Honda Civic is definitely larger than previous generations of Accord. I'd even bet that the current TL is larger than the old Legend by a healthy amount.
So, although I have no interest in the IS, let alone any Buick (er, I mean Lexus), I find the assessment that, as a sports sedan/coupe it is "cramped" an interesting perspective on how times have changed. I am quite certain that, as small as it sounds, it might not be that much, if any, smaller than the original Mercedes E-class (luxury sedan) that I saw the other day.
Although this is a useful trend for cars, I am hoping that with a better running and work out regimen, I can keep my personal rear seat from growing in the same proportion.
Also, with mostly highway driving, how does the paint on the front end hold up against stone chips and such (particularly the vinyl bumper). I've used the 3M Clearmask products on previous cars with great success but if the paint on the front end of a TL is good , I can spare myself the expense.
I haven't had any paint chips yet....been lucky.
The front end chips fairly easily in my opinion. You may want to consider extra protection.
The pure highway mpg for the TL is excellent, imo.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If you look at the 3 series BMW, the A4 Audi's and the IS level Lexus then you are comparing much more closely sized closely matching performance vehicles. I would personally compare the TSX to the IS, but really the IS 350 is way out of the league of the TSX, and only the IS 250 would be a reasonable comparo (I'm sure I will be flamed for this heresy - Fire suite on).
You got it correct...the IS250 is more comparable to the TSX. Just that the IS has two different engine options.
Basically....it is rather difficult to create a generic comparison set...and that is why the site allows the user to customize to compare to any vehicle.
I own an A6 and my wife owns a TL. I love both of them, but I would not compare the TL to the A6 as the A6 is a much larger vehicle. They are in definitely different size categories. Back seat room in the A6 is spacious, there are vents thru both the B-pillars as well as the middle "hump" control unit, and there are seat warmers. The backseat of the TL is acceptable, but not something I'd want to drive in for more than a short trip, certainly not more than 30 minutes.
Both are excellent vehicles, and in fact, I much prefer the voice activation and nav on the TL over the Audi. I think both have very nice luxurious interiors as well. Just different creatures.
Actually, this is not correct. The TL and the A6 have exactly the same size interiors: 97.9 cubic feet. The TL does have a smaller trunk at 12.5 cubic feet vs. 15.9 for the A6.
Appreciate the advice.
Again, I love both cars, but they are in a different size class. I don't know if this link will work...comparo of TL, RL, A6, G35, 5 Series
http://www.mp3yourcar.com