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We can nit-picking the 2 all the time, Camry has 4 channel ABS compared to 3 channel in Accord, Camry passenger power seat offers 6 direction compared to 4 in Accord, no rear headrest in Accord (at least in the 2000 models), and the
handbrake placement obstruct the dash access (imo),etc
And Accord EX V6 comes with 15' wheel, at least thats what Edmund and CarDirect reported.
What ever, all your up down left right in and out is just as waste of time here. YOu obvious are holding what you are used to as "logical", don't blame you. It would be silly for the owner not to be used to it. It should be second nature for any owner (both camry/accord). This is totally nit picking. Camry's switch is perfectly logical to me. I'm sure I could become used to Accord's switch as well, after a while. Well, I'm holding what I'm used to as being more logical. How do you like that?
Yup, I like the Camry's dash perfectly. I think you are just can't stand someone who likes the Camry's 'MORE'. Ah, I love these subjective talks, it's always to fun and endless. You are trying to force your subjective prefence on people, it doesn't work that way my friend.
Well, I also hope the Accord's death rate will decrease from now on, maybe even come close to Camry's. Maybe the difference might even make up for Accord's lack of DTRL. I really hope so for Accord owner's sake. Camry has been the safer car for the more than 9 years now, I hope Honda can do the same. I don't want to see people injured in general. Honestly.
Civic. No, the Si is gone. Besides, it's a coupe not a sedan. No point talking about thing Honda dropped, now do we?
Even the EX wouldn't have won. The Sentra floaty? I think not. Cars and Driver (I think) did a comparison earlier this year, the Sentra beat the VW Jetta, well know as an excellent handler. And Edmunds' test reenforced that conclusion. Haven't read a single review that said the new Sentra has bad handling. It would beat the softer Civic hands down. Unless the 2001 Civic can out handle the 2000 Civic with double wishbone. Unfortunately, the review so far doesn't sound like the 2001 can out handle old doublewishboned Civic, and that means the Sentra wins the sporty contest.
round 1!
Lighten up guys, they're both good car, cant do wrong with either of them, its all in the preferences. ^_^
Now we talking Civic Si against Sentra SE?? Oopps, make that Civic EX against Sentra SE? No contest, Sentra will smoke the new Civic in almost every aspect (hp,0-60 time, handling,etc).
But here in America we root for the underdog. While many of Toyota's successes over the years have been well earned, it has also resorted to underhanded means to achieve some of its goals.
Latest example: Worried that it is becoming the "Oldsmobile" of Japanese car makers, Toyota decided that getting into CART racing would help its image among the younger buyers. Instead of working its way up the ranks, it spent big bucks stealing CART drivers from Honda, AND THEN failed to credit the drivers' previous race victories to Honda, which supplied the engines.
When you are big, powerful and rich, sure you can get a lot done, but did you do it honorably and scrupulously? Toyota's record is certainly questionable, and that wins no respect from me.
Honda may not be beyond reproach in all of its dealings, but from its humble beginnings as a manufacturer of motorcycles, it overcame great adversities to arrive at where it is today; one of the most respected company in the world, with a huge group of fiercely loyal fans.
When I bought the car, the dealer insisted that I should leave the original oil in for 7,500 miles because it was some sort of special oil.
I have gone almost 4,000 miles, and I am starting to get really nervous about leaving the original oil in there any longer.
Can someone please tell me what is so special about the original oil that was put in the car? Does anyone know what additive the put in there to make it so special. And, could anyone please give me their opinions on whether I should listen to my dealer about not changing the oil yet?
Thanks // Andrea
the planet suggests 3 months - 3L miles. It would
be better to replace oil now.
Also do read Accord Problems disucssion. It is
named as Accord Problems but turned out to be a
maintenance.
Most of the owners say that it would be better to
replace the oil by 3000 miles & they also add that
whenever they change the oil they feel that the
same oil could have been used all over again !!!
Should we talk about Sunroof. Accord : U don't need to take eyes off the road as it is on dash !!
All controls on the dash need lesser movement & less attention in Accord than in Camry.
Accord dash is more neet & well laid out (slight edge though)
But KBBs figures are what dealers refer to than edmunds. KBB also takes ZIP Code in consideration.
i.e to calculte effect of zone (if any ofcourse).
So KBB is more practical. Ur example that used car being more than the new one is true because the retail value of KBB is negotiable driven by market.
I don't know why I am getting involved in Honda/Toyota stuff so much. I am a computer engg !!
It helps though, when I surprised the Toyota salesguy with the information I had -:)
And I thought I was a fanatic. You guys really got me beat! All this detail about vtec, vv-whatever, and which way the power door lock button moves....
Seriously, I chose the Camry in '97 because it was the first year of the new design and it was an IIHS "best pick." Accord was in the final year of its design, and IIHS rated it only "acceptable."
All small company had to climb it's way up. Toyota was no different. It had to climb it's way up from the war torn Japan. Did you know that Toyota was on the verge of bankrupcy in the early 1950's? Nissan and Mitsubishi, the two giants at the time, kicked the resource poor Toyota (making only 50,000 cars a year) around so bad, it's almost didn't make it. But what doesn't kill you MIGHT make you stronger. Toyota survived and made it's way to the top. It has paid it's dues along the way. Honda's experience should be no different. Being under the thumb of the larger company is true for all small companies. Some make it, and become stronger, others collaps. So you can't blame Toyota for its business manuvers, it's not the one who made the business world a cutthroat place, and business choice is not always kind. Every company is out to do what's best for themselves. Same for Toyota and Honda.
So on a lighter note. Has any one heard of any new information for totally redesigned Camry that's coming in 10 months? How about the Honda Accord that's 2 years down?
Toyota has been pretty tight lipped about it, and beside the common knowledge that it will have VVt-i (all toyotas cars now do), I haven't heard much about the other specs. But the new Rav-4 gets a 147 hp 2.0L. Things looks good for Camry's new engine, probably a 2.2L - 2.4L making 155 hp to 165 hp.
Any news on the next generation Accord? I know that it's still 2 years away, and it's probably not solidified in any way, but any rumors you Honda fans ran into? Maybe the VTEC-i will have materialzied by then. Also, I hope the 2001 Civic doesn't mean the 2003 Accord will lose the doublewishbone as well.
Differnce between Edmund's price and
KBB's price is that Edmunds publish a average
Market Value based on transaction prices accross
the nation.
KBB is the price you would expect to
be initially Offered by the dealer, not the
transaction price that the deal is finally struck.
That's why KBB give you used car prices higher
than the new car prices, because it's just an
elevated initial offer by the dealer, they don't
expect you to pay more than a new car's price, but
it give them room to haggle.
Such advertize wouldn't win any fans for Toyota.
Humm.. They won their first cart 2 days back & they advertized the team with 4 wins before that ???
As for the advertising. Toyota didn't use false advertising. It's fully legal and the information is correct, they never claimed the all of the previous winning by the team used Toyota engines. They just didn't mention the team used to race for Honda.
Same thing goes for all business world. For example. Pfizer now owns Warner-Lambert. The number 1 drug on the market right now is Lipitor, but it was invented by Warner-Lambert. After buying out Warner-Lambert, Pfizer now claim they are the company that created the drug. Which is technically correct since now they own WL, but they just didn't mention that WL was the maker before the take over. Oh well. Technicalities.
However, none could specify how many extra vehicles would result from the move.
Staff at a plant in the Aichi district about 270 km (170 miles) west of Tokyo have been told to work a six-day week until next March, excluding December, due to strong demand for its luxury Celsior sedan, a company spokesman said.
Toyota received 25,000 domestic orders for the Celsior in the first month after its August 31 launch against a monthly sales target of 2,000 units.
In addition, employees at two group plants would work the next two Saturdays due to the successful August 28 launch of its remodelled Corollas, a Toyota spokeswoman said.
The firm received 34,000 domestic orders -- 21,500 for remodelled Corolla sedans and 12,500 Fielder wagons -- in the first month after their launch, against a target of 8,000 and 3,500 respectively per month.
Nissan said it would raise output of Bluebird Sylphy sedans, for which it received 8,500 domestic orders in the first month after its August 30 launch against a monthly target of 3,000, by asking staff to work on three Saturdays in October.
Some 60 percent of the orders so far were for the version with an ultra-low emission engine, the automaker said.
Sales of its remodelled Civic five-door hatchback and Civic Ferio four-door sedan in the first two weeks after their launch on September 14 has prompted Honda to ask staff to work on October 21 and November 4 at one plant. Honda received 8,000 domestic orders against a monthly sales target of 6,000 units.
......
Wow, 6 day work week. Sure don't want to work for them. Interesting note. The new Toyota Corolla unvailed in Japan and Europe (scheduled for us release 2 years later), has a wagon version called the Fielder wagon. It us an up tuned Celica GT-S engine, making 190 hp. Too bad wagons are unpopular in U.S, do don't expect Toyota to bring it here when the new Corolla comes.
Don't know how 2001 Accord is going for.
I hope it gets better after 1 or 2 months....
Here are the shots for the 2003 Corolla that's currently onsale in Japan as 2001.
Interior:
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/CorollaSedan/interior/index.html
Exterior:
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/CorollaSedan/exterior/index.html
Click on the numbers on the right to enlarge the pictures.
The car use an updated version of the current corolla's 1.8L VVt-i engine. Make an extra 10 hp (135 hp). The car is more than 5 inches longer and 3 inches taller than the current Corolla.
The Nav equiped version you saw in the picture has an MSRP about 1.8 million yen, or about $16-$17K USD. There is are 4WD version, and a Fielder Wagon version, but I don't think Toyota will offer those here in the U.S.
Is the torque curve not that flat...? I don't think so...
Maybe they just need to make corolla handle better
I agree, since the new Corolla makes 136 hp, that means the Camry will most likely make 150 hp. Even if they just increase the bore of the new Corolla's 136 hp 1.8L engine to get 2.2L displacement for Camry, that would mean 166 hp! An insane increase of 30 hp. That's little too much, since that might decrease the reason for a V6's existance. I'm guess between 155-160 being the safest bet.
Any I4 Accord or Camry they will HAVE to look over the mpg numbers in this hp race may be that the main reason why Toyota didn't increase Camrys hp inbetween the model years to compete with Accord. It would have hurt fuel economy as such. Ofcourse they will come up with new camry producing atleast 155hp..that is for sure.
Instead of increasing hp, they should try to loose some weight from Camry/Accord by using lighter components. (still same quality). It would raise cost slightly but help in long term.
Accord Vs Camry debate would till there are buyers in the midsize segment !!
If only the 2 of you could take one step-back, and actually view each others posts in an objective manner, and realize how they sound, and come across.
If one were to actually take anything serious from this subject, it would be, there are some disturbed Accord and Camry owners out there.
N'Joy !!
Every 2001 Accord(I don't count DX) has CDPlayer, EX has 6 Disc in dash changer. Smart Airbags with 7 sensors to adjust speed/path of deployment. Available *Smart* side airbags. No wind noise in 2001 model compared to 2000.
It is highly recommended to get a test ride to decide *your* test: soft or sporty.
2.3 VTEC engine is very good power plant & VTEC kicks in whenever you need tp pass. Once VTEC kicks in you get a solid rush/acceleration. Also Accord holds its gears even the first one till red line to allow VTEC to get in action. Also comparably equipped Accord costs lesser than Camry & has better resale value. Refer Intellichoice figures: Accord is worth 63% of original MSRP after 5 years & requires least maintenance & repairs in this segment. Camry 54% with more cost than accord to maintain.
V6 Model is a different story. Accord EX-V6 is very good value over Camry XLE. With Accord the main problem is NO CUSTOMIZATION i.e no factory options. EX Comes with just about evrything.
But it won't be possible to get Leather
or power driver seat on LX trim.
Passat: Reliability is a concern as 'they' say & it costs more & goes for MSRP. Although my friend has a Passat & he didn't have any problem other than : Stuck power window & non working Cruise control which were taken care *just* within warranty(22 Months!!).
Now a days cars have a lot of electronic equipement so 2 years is not enough IMHO (Specially If past history is not that good)
As Accord/Camry goes it is a MUST to test drive to decide your test.
Hope this helps.
~Milind
Also Manufacturer warranty covers it for 5 years unlimited mileage....
I was in MSP, Minnesota for over a year & didn't see any of my friends reccommeding that who have been there for years.
Put cruise at 70MPH. Slow down to about 30. & then again press reset of cruise. RPMS go up close to 5K, VTEC kicks in & there is a great fwd rush with rpms settle above 4k RPM after 2 seconds
Then again it settles above 3K & then 2600.
(70MPH Crusing : 2600-2650RPM)
I obserevd this when I slowed down at a toll-booth & then pressed the reset button.
Well, my wife just told me that they discovered that their Taurus came with a bad alignment. He (friend's husband) dropped it off at the dealer for them to fix. The dealer drove it, told them there was no problem, and asked them to pick it up. Well, the problem is still there... Needless to say, that puts a little damper on their ownership experience.
Well, the guy works for Ford. It's not like he had a choice when buying cars (well he could have bought another brand, but it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do). I let them know before that dispite the excellent content to price ratio, I had my doubts about Ford quality. I was hoping they would get a flawless one, but I guess luck wasn't with them.
I know that all brands have quality laps now and then, but I just have a gut feeling that had they bought a Toyota or a Honda instead, they probably would have a better chance of getting a perfect car.
Please, if you find out anything else on the accord, please write.
hansr
Thanks again. hansr
Even Mazdas are built VERY tight !! There auto(provided by Ford) has some problems but they build good cars 626/Miata/MPV/trubute etc. Ford should make 626 more capable to compete with Accortd/Camry. It's 4 cyl & 6 cyl are both weak.
Same goes with Altima....it needs size change & a V6. Maxima should compete with Avalon or so...
Instaed they try ti make Taurun #1 by selling it to Hetrz & every possible rental co on the earth !!
Also Durango/Cherokee etc...Ofcourse they don't offer any GM crap(which is better) but do offer
Ford....It is now 100% owned by Ford....
Ofcourse it is just to stay competetive.
torque output (slightly higher than Maxima's) sits
in the 190-200 lb.-ft range for about 3000 rpm
power band, and lower at 500 rpm before and after
that(Accord has better), except for peak
numbers(Maxima has better). The peak number is
basically to make people think that they are
getting atleast as powerful car as TL (A target to
meet in the new 3.0/V6 design, pretty sure), and
this is the reason why Accord V6 has recorded 0-60
times of 7.4-8.1 seconds, with 3200-3285 lb. curb
weight and Maxima auto with 3200 lb. curb weight
gets the best 0-60 time, I've seen so far with auto
tranny of 8.1 seconds, worst of 8.3 seconds). If
the torque curve was consistent, atleast like it is
in Accord/TL (flatter over wider powerband), with
only 3200 lb. curb weight (300 lb. less than TL!)
Maxima could do 0-60 atleast half-second quicker.
ITR (not sure which ITR dyno you've seen but JDM
ITR and American ITR have quite a bit of difference
in top range, partly due to LEV limitations in the
our version) comes with manual tranny only, and
just like Maxima SE, manual tranny helps eliminate
the disadvantages of small dips if they exist. ITR
(JDM version, since I've seen its dyno on Honda's
JDM site) gets 90+% peak torque from under
2500-3000 rpm to 95% at 8000 rpm (peak 200 HP),
with 138 lb.-ft peak at 6200 rpm. Not many cars can
boast 111.3 HP/liter at 8000 rpm for the same
reason strong torque (considering the displacement
of the engine). On an average, ITR engine requires
72 rpm/liter displacement to develop 1 HP. Maxima
engine requires an average of 86.2 rpm/liter
displacement to develop 1 HP. Accord V6 requires
82.4 rpm/liter for each HP, TL requires 79.8
rpm/liter for each HP, and CL-S and Prelude engines
require 75.3 rpm/liter for each HP, just one of my
measures to evaluate engine's strengths.
At 6200 rpm, the ITR engine produces 163 HP (90.7
HP/liter) compared to 74.25 HP/liter at 6400 rpm
for Maxima. Basically, you'd be better off not to
compare ITR's superb engine (and perhaps the only
affordable engine that gets personal touch at the
factory!) to Maxima's, just another V6 engine.
Accord Type-R (and all 98+ Accords worldwide) is
based on the new universal midsize platform, which
is different from the previous generation Accords,
and now supports Honda's lineup of American Accord
(sedan/coupe), Japanese and European Accord (sedan,
now smaller and lighter than American version),
Japan only Torneo (sportier version of Accord), TL
(Inspire and Saber in Japan), CL, Odyssey, and the
upcoming MDX (Acura SUV). According to a financial
report (Honda corporate), this platform will
support majority of the Honda lineup in a few
years.
Accord Type-R is a sports sedan, using the same
chassis as new European Accord, but stronger in
rigidity, with sports suspension and brakes etc.
The drivetrain is from Prelude, but tweaked to
generate 212 HP (between 200 HP of Prelude and 220
HP of Prelude Type-S). ATR comes with recaro seats,
carbon fiber trim, a/c is 'free option', manual
tranny only (with titanium shift knob), 17" alloy
wheels, spoiler, underbody kit, four wheel ABS with
EBD (Electronic Brak Distribution) and so on.
Prelude is still based on older Accord platform.
Accord coupe in Europe is exported from Ohio with
the V6 engine. Choice of engines, that I know and
are available in Euro Accord since '98 are 1.8
liter (140 HP), 2.0 liter (150 HP), 2.2 liter (212
HP/159 lb.-ft) and 3.0 (200 HP/Accord coupe only).
Except for Accord Coupe, all Accords enjoy very
good resale value (residual is near 30-32% for
Accord Coupe, other in mid 40's)
Camry in Europe is available with the same 2.2
liter and 3.0 liter engines, but in 'regular' and
'sport' trims. (Resale value is poor for Camry in
Europe, any trim, 30-32%).
Passat in Europe is available with a choice of
trims (regular and sport) and with engines, ranging
from 1.6 liter (100 HP), 1.8 liter (125 HP/150
HP), 2.3 VR5 (150 HP), 2.8/V6 (190 HP) etc. (Resale
is good for Passat in Europe, mid 40's, epsecially
for non-V6 models).
I think resale value is a good measure of several
aspects in a car. It will vary from taste, as is
obvious in case of Camry, that suffers poor resale
in Europe, perhaps due to its appeal, but in
America, it is best, only next to Accord. Passat
suffers in USA due to its past, and turbo engines
have never had upper hand in resale.
****************************************
Emissions:
1. CVCC : First car to meet strict emissions
requirement, even without the use of catalytic
converter. (CVCC later became Civic. 1972-79 Honda
Civic takes the honors for the best engineered car
of the '70s, by SAE).
2. Accord: First LEV (almost all Honda/Acuras now
being sold are atleast LEV rated).
3. Civic GX: First ZLEV
4. Accord: First ULEV (Insight is one of the ULEVs
from Honda, it is not SULEV)
5. Accord: First SULEV
Besides these, Honda has been among the leaders in
launching CVT transmission on mass produced cars
(Civic HX in USA), electric vehicle (EV Plus),
Hybrid car (Insight, now being tweaked for
2001-2002 Civic release), and Honda FCX (fuel cell)
will likely see production line by 2003 (perhaps
as a trim level on Honda Accord). Even cars like
S2000 are often conceived and produced to barely
meet the street legalness, on the other hand, Honda
adopted LEV route for that car too, exceeding
emissions requirement to go in effect five years in
advance! Another automaker would had waited for
the regulations to take effect, and until then,
used 250 HP and 161 lb.-ft output (instead of
detuned 240 HP and 153 lb.-ft from the 2.0 liter
engine at the same rpm). Acura MDX may very well be
the first ULEV SUV as well!
There was some problem due to malfunctioning of
emissions control in mid-90's, resulting in fine
(similar fine has been imposed on Ford, GM, Toyota
etc.). Honda replaced the components in affected
cars, and extended the warranty to 7 years. With
all these efforts, I wouldn't doubt Honda's
leadership in environment friendliness (this goes
towards controlling pollution from manufacturing
facilities too!).
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