Older Honda Accords

talon95 · May 2004

How does the upgraded rear stabilizer bar affect the ride?

dudleyr · May 2004

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=234399

This is the Accord (TSX) I want. Over 130 mph, and 92 mpg (Imperial).

Please can we have one! : ^ ) Manual tranny wagon preferably.

justin · May 2004

i went on a 500 mile trip this weekend, on highways and curvy back roads. the Accord has 10k miles on it. it eats up highway miles effortlessly of course (240 hp will do that, haha). what i really like is on the back roads, it really excels. feels really good, of course not a FLAT cornerer, but very close. quite stable and tight feeling, and it seems to like to curves quite a bit. is that the double wishbone doing its job? i know its not the crappy tires....

i fear i might have the infamous Accord rattles. now that it is warm, and the car is "looser", i hear noise in the headliner, more towards the passenger side, and also a slight rattle in my drivers door. if i elbow the door it goes away.

any TSB's for those? anyone have any successful fixes? they aren't really too bad, but i tend to be a little crazy about my cars..

thanks!

oh, for the first 250 miles, i got over 30 mpg, driving through mountains at around 80 mpg with a/c on and two passengers. not bad at all!

gee35coupe · May 2004

1 1/2 hours on the interstate. Got behind a E500 rolling along at 100mph. Felt like 70 mph. I love this car. If I haven't said it before, XM radio is awesome.

gregoryc1 · May 2004

QUESTION: ---- Do you work for a Honda dealer, or do you work for the parent Honda Corporation?

per2 · May 2004

My 2004 Accord Lx (4 cylinder) was bought on Nov 1, 2003, made in July 2003. Currently it has about 1,500 miles. Last month I went to dealer for the first oil change, and was told "too early"; today I went there again, the service manger said "it's waste of money", and asked me to come back two or three months later for "10K miles" service. Should I follow their advice?

snarks · May 2004

With regards to the first oil change on a Honda. They use a special oil with lots of extra additives to help with breakin. I would dump it at 4-5k miles. 10k is a long time on any dino oil although synthetic can take that under easier conditions. (Honda factory oil is dino).

anonymousposts · May 2004

The owner's manual actually states that you should NOT change the oil before the recommended service interval (5,000 severe I think and 10,000 for normal driving conditions).

gregoryc1 · May 2004

My Honda dealer recommends oil and filter changes at 3,750 miles. I change my oil and filter at 3,000 miles on both a 2003 4cyl Accord and a 2004 4cyl Civic. My first oil and filter change was at 3,000 miles on both vehicles. You will hear a lot of opinions on this board about this subject. Some people will quote the "Book Of Honda" with 5,000 and 10,000 mile oil change intervals. These are "maximum numbers" for an oil and filter change! ---- They DO NOT mean that you must run your oil and filter to these mileage intervals. Dirty oil is dirty oil! Ask yourself this question. ---Why do oil pumps fail? They are sitting in at least 4 quarts of oil, yet they fail. The reason is simple. They fail because they are sitting in "Dirty Oil"! Toyota is going throught a "big issue" with sludge in their engines partly from extended oil and filter changes, and other issues related to engine heat / design. Those individuals who change their oil and filter at 3,000 miles don't seem to have the problem. On this issue you must make up your own mind. An oil and filter change at the dealer is cheap. I do not think that they will give you a problem at 3,000 miles. If your selling dealer does give you a problem, find another Honda dealer in your area for service. I have purchase and / or leased five Honda vehicles from my dealer since 1997, and I have never had any problem with 3,000 mile oil and filter changes. The Accord now has almost 25,000 miles on the clock, and the oil in the crankcase is so clean, that it is hard to read the level on the dip stick. Clean oil make for a "happy engine". The choice is yours.

mikeysoft · May 2004

I change my 03, 4 cyl Accord at 7.8k miles for my first change.

talon95 · May 2004

Ignore the fear, uncertainty and doubt being presented here and follow the manual. With Honda's hard-earned reputation for reliability, they are absolutely NOT going to lead you down a path that's going to compromise that reputation by extending their recommended maintenance intervals beyond a very safe level. To even think that Honda would do such a thing is the most ludricrous proposition that I've heard in years.

Are the recommended numbers "maximum numbers?" Sure... but don't let the use of the term "maximum" be spun in such a way that it implies "bad". Those numbers are part of Honda's recommended normal maintenance schedule. And if you look at the conditions that define that schedule, most driver's would easily fit into that category. Even Honda says that they expect the normal maintenance schedule to apply to most cars.

By all means, change it more often if it helps you sleep better at night. But don't let antediluvian opinions about auto maintenance and predictions of doom and gloom if you don't follow them frighten you into thinking that you're abusing your car by following the manufacturer's recommendation. That's total nonsense. They designed and build the car... nobody knows the car better than they do.

imidazol97 · May 2004

I don't think "antediluvian" is a proper description for someone's opinion of 3000 mile service intervals. But I do agree about your own feeling on when to change considered along with the manufacturer's recommendations. It depends on my driving.

IF your oil is driven on most trips 15 minutes or more so that the contaminants are being purged by heat and the PCV system, run up nearer the max recommended by the manufacturer. IF your trips include more than 20 percent short starts and stops with a cold engine, change at the minimum or sooner nearer 3K if you plan to keep the car past 100 or 125K and want to minimize wear.

IF your climate is cold, increase oil changes to nearer the 3K intervals.--just my opinion.

gregoryc1 · May 2004

I like the way your write. You have style! But, I can't agree with your opinion on maintenance. Oil is recycled, so as such, there is no issue with natural resources. Oil is part of the cooling system on an engine. In addition, oil seals, lubricates and cleans moving parts. Simply, "clean oil" does a better job than "dirty oil". Dirty oil leaves deposits in the oil passages of the engine block, thus cutting down on the supply of oil to moving parts, over a period of time. The purpose of keeping the oil clean is to maintain the close tolerances of a new engine over an extended period of time in the life of the engine. Once the parts of an engine become "oil starved", wear starts to accelerate. Toyota is having a "BIG PROBLEM" with this very issue. Owners that have changed their oil and filters according to the numbers in the manual have come up with "sludged engines". When oil is heated and cooled for an extended period of time sludge develops. The new engines run hotter! Keep the interior of the engine clean, and you will have less problems when the unit has high mileage on the clock! As the owner of the vehicle, you can design any type of preventive maintenance program for you vehicle. My dealer recommends oil and filter changes at 3,750 miles. Now, you can say that they do this to make more money for the dealership. But when you look at the price of an oil and filter change, there isn't that much profit in the process. So, I think that this recommendation is being made to prevent possible "expensive issues" down the road. If they recommend 3,750 miles, and the owner brings in the vehicle between 3,750 and 5,000 miles, that action on the part of the dealership, has improved the quality of the preventive maintenance on the vehicle.

talon95 · May 2004

"I don't think "antediluvian" is a proper description for someone's opinion of 3000 mile service intervals."

Point taken... this was a more "sweeping" description of some opinions expressed here that seem to be strongly rooted in the past... it goes beyond the 3000 mile service intervals.

snarks · May 2004

I did not realize nor did any the others that you are a low mileage driver and hence the question. Go by the time interval listed in the owners manual.

With regards to oil change interval there are many strong opinions on this and go with what you feel comfortable with. With the exceptions of a few manufacturer design flaws (not in Honda's) the vast majority of engines do not fail if you follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Oil related engine failures are extremely rare even up to mileage around 150k-200k.

talon95 · May 2004

"Once the parts of an engine become "oil starved", wear starts to accelerate. Toyota is having a "BIG PROBLEM" with this very issue. Owners that have changed their oil and filters according to the numbers in the manual have come up with "sludged engines". When oil is heated and cooled for an extended period of time sludge develops. The new engines run hotter!"

Greg, we've been through this before. And I've posted the specifics of the Toyota problem. Yes, it's partially because of oil starvation, due to a design defect in the engine. Toyota has recognized that defect and addressed it. The failure of the oil in an engine with a design defect in its oil circulation system has no bearing on the potential of oil failure in a properly designed engine.

To save typing, I'm simply including portions of my previous post on this topic.

Toyota acknowledged that engine design was at least part of the problem when they made a design change to the engine that improved circulation by enabling oil to drain faster into the sump.

In addition, some experts believe that the problems are worse than Toyota admits. One expert says that the problem occurred mostly because of excessive heat in the cylinder head, which resulted in a 60 to 70 degree temperature difference between the cylinder head and the block. This is far greater than the industry "rule of thumb" of 10 to 15 degrees, and such dramatic temperature changes are extremely hard on the oil.

So the oil in these engines was stressed way beyond normal conditions. The oil was being stressed at a "severe" or worse level even if the car was driven at defined "normal" levels. Since the oil was abused in such a manner, it comes as no surprise that more frequent changes helped in this situation. However, it definitely doesn't follow that engines without such a design defect would achieve any benefits from more frequent oil changes than those recommended by the manufacturer, or that they'd suffer from similar breakdowns as a result of following the recommendations.

I feel that the Toyota sludge issue is apples-to-oranges to this discussion. It tells us little except for the consequences of a design defect.

talon95 · May 2004

"My dealer recommends oil and filter changes at 3,750 miles. Now, you can say that they do this to make more money for the dealership. But when you look at the price of an oil and filter change, there isn't that much profit in the process. So, I think that this recommendation is being made to prevent possible "expensive issues" down the road. If they recommend 3,750 miles, and the owner brings in the vehicle between 3,750 and 5,000 miles, that action on the part of the dealership, has improved the quality of the preventive maintenance on the vehicle."

So does this imply that no level of preventive maintenance is too much? So perhaps you should change your oil every 2000 miles. Or every 100 miles. After all, wouldn't that be improving the quality of the preventive maintenance on the vehicle as well? You tell us that improving the quality of the preventive maintenance is a good thing... so how much improvement is enough? When does the "improvement" stop and the extra maintenance become a waste of time and money?

That's where we primarily differ. Whether or not improving the quality of the preventive maintenance on the vehicle is necessary depends on your position as to whether or not the recommended level of preventive maintenance is inadequate. You seem to think so. That's your right. Excuse me if I take the word of the manufacturer over yours, or over your dealer's.

imidazol97 · May 2004

I don't know the maximum time Honda recommended between changes. I only was thinking of miles also. My father-in-law drives about 5000 per year. I told him I'd change every 3 months. I think he has an oil change every 6 months. This includes short trips in 0-40 degree winter days in Ohio. That adds contaminants quickly.

I should mention the oil test -- let the oil do the talking. If it gets black and changes feel to a heavier feel, change it. Drop a drop onto a paper towel and look for the dark inner ring when the oil is new. Then do that every couple of weeks as your miles build up. When the center dark ring is the size of a dime or bigger after a few minutes of spreading out in the paper, it's time to change.

Using that method your driving style will show up in the look of the oil. This method also would have shown visually the oil problems from the hot spot in Toyotas deteriorating the oil.

gregoryc1 · May 2004

Why the "sarcasm"? ----Can't you just discuss the subject in a professional manner? In the 50's, 60's and 70's oil and filters were changed every 2,000 miles. The first oil and filter changes, (on new vehicles), were done at 1,000 miles, followed by 2,000 mile intervals. In 1975 I worked for a Buick dealer, and we recommended 2,000 oil and filter changes to all of our customers. We also put 16 ounces of MM oil in every oil and filter change. Yes, the customer was informed about this additive. It is your right to take the word of the manufacturer of the vehicle on this subject. You DO NOT have to use my system of preventive maintenance. Your suggestion of a 100 mile oil and filter change is not even "logical", nor it is related to this issue. But, on the other side of the issue, your suggestion of a 2,000 mile oil and filter change does have some merit, if the vehicle does a lot of idling and stop and go driving. If you want to run extended oil and filter changes use Amsoil Synthetic oil and their oil filter. They have oil that will run 7,500 miles. But you will need to install the Amsoil oil filter. Amsoil oil is about $6.00 a quart, ($6.00 x 5 =$30.00), plus an oil filter at about $10.00, that equals about $40.00 for an oil and filter change if you "do it yourself". Or, you can have the oil and filter changed twice at the dealership for about that price at 3,000 mile intervals. Yes, the choice is yours. You as the owner, can set the standards for maintenance.

gregoryc1 · May 2004

Those owners that changed the oil at 3,000 mile intervals did not have the sludge problem. This means that the engine design is "ok" if the oil and filter is changed more often.----- The increase in engine temperature, was designed into the engine so it could pass the EPA pollution tests. There would not have been a problem with these engines, had the oil and filter been changed more frequently. I have researched this subject on many information boards. Frequent oil and filter changes could have saved these engines, and a lot of time and money in the process. Yes, there may be a design problem with the units, but they would have functioned had they been maintanined at frequent intervals.

pat · May 2004

Okay, we've more than answered the question and we've been trapped on this not-very-merry go 'round before.

Those of you who keep butting heads on this need to agree to disagree now, and leave the subject alone.

talon95 · May 2004

My questions and statements were honest and forthright ones. I'm sorry if you interpreted any of my statements as sarcasm... it wasn't intentional on my part.

richards38 · May 2004

My 2004 Accord 4 cyl. was purchased in late August, '03 and will have only about 2,500 miles on it after one year. Most of my driving is for periods longer than 15 minutes--don't drive much in the city (San Francisco) and usually use the car for driving to places 15 or 20 miles away. So the car is driven fully warmed up in a moderate climate.

It might be several years before my car is even close to 10,000 miles--my last car, a '91 Mazda Protegé, was 12.5 years old and had only 19,000 miles on it when I sold it!

My question is: Should I change the oil after one year (this coming August) with so few, mostly highway miles on the car, or change the oil and filter because they had been in the car for one full year?.....Richard

chucko3 · May 2004

If you don't drive much, regardless of milages, go with the # of months stated in the manual.

gee35coupe · May 2004

When I drive it, I'm usually going on a trip somewhere so I USE the car when it's running. Normally it's sitting in the garage with a dead battery though.

It doesn't seem to mind it. Oil is still clean and the engine is still very powerful. Syntec seems to take the "abuse" well.

snarks · May 2004

Change the oil once a year at least. Oil deteriates with time also once used.

kareshi · May 2004

If you don't drive that much, you don't really need a car.. calling a taxi may cost less

bolivar · May 2004

Read the manual. It will say there is a 12 month maximum for oil change, no matter what the milage.

I am also a low milage driver. There are maximums on time for all the service intervals. Read the manual.

You need to do this to keep within the warranty guideline - if you ever do need Honda to fix something on the car, under warranty.

I changed out a perfectly good 2002 Accord air filter, with less than 10,000 miles on it. There were just a few soot spots on it, almost no dirt, dust, etc. But there is a 24 month time period for the filter. Absolute waste of money, but I did it.

richards38 · May 2004

"If you don't drive that much, you don't really need a car.. calling a taxi may cost less."

=========================================================

I thought about that, but renting a car on short notice or cabbing to fairly distant destinations is inconvenient and I like the freedom of having my own car. The cost is high, but not really an issue.

Yes, owning such a nice car as the new Accord EX-L and driving it so little is a bit of a waste, but when I do drive, I want a car that's comfortable, safe, and a pleasure to drive......Richard

gregoryc1 · May 2004

You only live once. ENJOY your vehicle!

robr2 · May 2004

"I thought about that, but renting a car on short notice or cabbing to fairly distant destinations is inconvenient and I like the freedom of having my own car. The cost is high, but not really an issue."

I see from your profile that you're in the Bay Area. I would presume that something like http://www.zipcar.com is available there. It's pretty big here in Boston.

richards38 · May 2004

"I see from your profile that you're in the Bay Area. I would presume that something like http://www.zipcar.com is available there. It's pretty big here in Boston."

==========================

Yes, there's a "City Car Share" outfit here, but I'd have to drive one of their VW Beetles. EEEEEWWWW!

.......Richard

robr2 · May 2004

"Yes, there's a "City Car Share" outfit here, but I'd have to drive one of their VW Beetles. EEEEEWWWW!

"

Jeez - they aren't that bad!! Zipcar has Bettles, Jettas, Passats, Golfs, Priuses, RAV's, Matrixes, Corollas, Camrys, Xa's, Xb's, Civics, Elements, Minis, Focuses and even a couple of 325's!! They had some Tacomas but I can imagine the workout those would get.

smith1 · May 2004

Forgive me for posting a coupe question here, but this board is a lot more active than the coupe board. I'm looking at a '99 LX 4-cyl. automatic coupe for my daughter. The car had its transmission rebuilt about a year ago, at around 50,000 miles. The $2400 rebuild was done by an independent shop that seems to have a good reputation. The car currently has 64,000 miles, the trans seems to work normally and the car is otherwise in excellent shape. How concerned should I be about this transmission going bad again? Would a properly done rebuild have corrected whatever the initial defect was?
Any other specific trouble spots I should be careful of with this car? Thanks for any advice.

richards38 · May 2004

I wonder why the transmission needed a rebuild so early. Was this car driven wrecklessly?........Richard

snarks · May 2004

Things fail sometimes early even with care.

stacey_burke · May 2004

When I bought my 1999 Accord LX 6 it came with leather interior. I can not see if you can get the lx in leather. Does anyone know? What is the main differences between the EX and LX this year? Thanks

anonymousposts · May 2004

Accord LX models come with cloth interior. There is no factory leather option so you have aftermarket leather.

EX adds sunroof, wheels, wood/aluminum interior trim, 4-wheel disc brakes, side airbags, optional leather which adds dual-zone climate control, heated seats, curtain airbags, and XM radio.

As a side note all 05 Accords will have standard side airbags and side curtain airbags.

smith1 · May 2004

It was my understanding that the 6th gen auto transmissions had an unusually high early failure rate. The car is being offered by the original owner, a middle-aged woman, and shows no signs of hard use.

nw1997 · May 2004

Can someone please clarify a few things for us. First, we have about 4000 miles on our Accord V6 and are looking to have the oil changed. It's amazing that all dealerships that we spoke to will change over to Synthetic for us at our request, (of course at a higher fee) and yes they recommend it. To be amazed further, every single service manager that we spoke to all said that they will only use Mobil 0W-20 Full Synthetic oil, (because it is a "proven" product). They also stated that we cannot go back once we switch, which is okay. What I am confused about is that one dealership said that we should wait until about 10k-15k miles then change over, this will allow the engine to fully be broken in. Another dealership said, you should do it as soon as possible, especially since we are planning to keep the vehicle for a long time. Can someone offer there opinion on whether it is better to wait or change over to synthetic now?

dudleyr · May 2004

There is a lot of info about this on the oil boards - might want to check there.

catam · May 2004

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am the proud new owner of an 04 EX L, 4cyl, auto. What a nice car, I am very happy. Like others have pointed out the XM radio is awesome, this car has incredible sound.

For nw1997; IMHO, synthetic I believe only provides any real benefit under extreme conditions, (ie racing, extreme heat/cold, etc.) I've used dino in all my vehicles, and have never had an oil related engine problem.

snarks · May 2004

Many opinions but no real hard stated fact anywhere. The never switch back is an old school thought that is not and never was true. Do what your comfortable with. There is no real scientific data on this just hearsay as your finding out. There is no worry any waiting to switch over either. Mobil 1 however is an excellent product and is a true synthetic oil, stick with this brand and avoid all others except Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline and Shaeffer's. The rest of synthetics are between regular oil and a synthetic's posted above. There is another forum but this board will not let you post the link directly.

pat · May 2004

Use the Keyword Search on the left side of the page for "oil" - you'll find lots of discussions with lots of info for you.

As snarks says, there are many opinions - the best thing to do would be to take some time to read what others have already posted and make up your own mind.

Enjoy!

richards38 · May 2004

Wait until you take a driving trip and enjoy listening to your, favorite radio channels no matter where you go. The XM sound quality is superb, commercial-free, and follows you everywhere.

The Accord's 4 cyl. engine is smoother and more powerful than many competing V6s. And at today's gas prices, you'll like it even better.

And the EX-L Accord is not only a pleasure to drive, but it's one of the safest cars you can own with its standard side, curtain airbags (all 2005 Accords will have them). The EX-L Accord is a near-luxury car for thousands of dollars less.

Drive your new car in good health.........Richard

gee35coupe · May 2004

I don't know if I mentioned that this week.

auburn63 · May 2004

Chances are that the repair was done good enough that you will not have any problems but there is never any guarantees unless you can find someone to sell you an extended warranty..If the car shifts good and runs good it should be good....

pat · May 2004

Hey auburn63 - nice to see you here.

cooksie · May 2004

I drove (and fell in love with ) the EX V6. I would have bought it but could not get the dealer to give me the deal I wanted. (am trading in a KIA SUV). I think I could come a bit closer to the EX with leather 4 cyl. BUt my dealer didn't have any in stock. I did drive the EX 4 cyl without leather and it just seemed to ride so much rougher. I would like to compare the EX L. DOes anyone have any thoughts about the two? Am I imagining things about the 4 cyl? The salesman said that the V6 would be a bit heavier and maybe the leather adds some extra padding or something. I don't know. I am going to try and find one to drive tomorrow (and see if I can get a better deal too).
Thanks.

anonymousposts · May 2004

It could have been the tire pressue. If the 4 cylinder EX you drove had too much air in the tires it would cause the car to ride a bit rougher. So make sure that the tires are properly inflated on the car you test drive. Other than that the V6 is a bit heavier than the 4 cylinder so that may also cause it to drive differently. I don't think the difference would have anything to do with whether the car has leather or not.

I have never driven the V6 but my 04 EX-L drives great.

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