Older Honda Accords

imidazol97 · December 2004

>Wow. Somebody at Honda had to really think through this

Wouldn't it have been better to design the transmission right to begin with rather than using a marginal design? Transmission problems through the lines and on earlier Hondas, but a new transmission has flaws..., not what I want.

ktnr · December 2004

I'm doubtful that this is a case of a fundamentally flawed design making it into production although anything is possible I guess. More likely, a supplied component or assembly step was changed at the point of manufacture. An o-ring too stiff, a crush washer too soft, a gasket with a hole offset - something tiny could have critically reduced internal oil flow and yet gone unnoticed. Aerospace, medical, and even semiconductor manufacturers are all subject to manufacturing slip-ups like this. It happens.

I bought my Honda knowing that if it one day blew up, I won't be kicking myself thinking, "How could I have been so stupid to buy a Honda!" Honda has a good track record - I waited until the third year of production, paid my money and now I'll take my chances.

venus537 · December 2004

while your not recommending the accord for its seat comfort to anybody don't forget to mention that almost everybody else thinks the accord's seats are great.

you can say something like this: "we think the front seats in the new accord suck but John in wisconsin swears by them. it's the first car he's ever had that didn't cause discomfort on a long trip".

richards38 · December 2004

Taking your chances with a new Honda Accord is a good bet. Hondas are consistently less troublesome when compared with most other cars.

See the latest Consumer Reports 2005 Buying Guide showing all car models and their problems.

Except for the driver's airbag recall (to which I must respond in a few weeks) my 2004 Accord EX-L has been just about perfect--nothing to complain about at all.

Not every Honda owner is happy, but the statistics show that most are.......Richard

bobst · December 2004

When you are confused in life, it is often good to ask the question "What would Jesus do?"

What would He do if he bought a car that had awful seats like the Accord?

Well, in His sermon on the mount, he said, "If thy eye offend thee, pluck it out". In other words, if something is making you unhappy, get it out of your life.

I think Jesus would trade the car in and buy a car that made him happy. He might even get his dad to pay for it.

imidazol97 · December 2004

I thought Honda had gone down in ratings in even CR...

richards38 · December 2004

His dad wouldn't have to pay for it--he'd just create one;-).......Richard

richards38 · December 2004

The Accord's overall rating did drop from a full circle to half of a circle, so statistically, both the Civic and the Camry rate a bit higher now.

By the way, the 2002 Camry--the first year of its cycle--earned an empty circle, so it was just average, but still recommended by CR.

ALL cars have improved so much that "average" isn't bad at all, and it takes very fine car to rate better than average......Richard

sunil · December 2004

I bought an 2005 EX-L (i4) without navigation just a few weeks back. But now I wish I had bought a car with navigation. Is there any way to add the integrated navigation system to the car ? Or am I stuck with a non-integrated aftermarket system ?

Sunil

uncommonman · December 2004

Ah, come on Bob, give me a break. Everybody knows Jesus would NOT buy a car. Jesus was a carpenter, so obviously he would drive a full size pickup truck so he could carry around all those saws and lumber and carpenter stuff! Probably a 4X4 with a BIG motor too!

;-)

We're driving the Accord to Doug's Fish Fry in Cortland, NY for lunch today, which will make me feel much better 'cause fried fish is my favorite comfort food. It's Christmas, so I'll let Honda off the hook for a couple of days.

Merry Christmas to all.

lmacmil · December 2004

I think you're stuck. Look on the bright side: you'll save almost $1000 on the aftermarket unit and you can put it in the glove box when you don't need it. Plus I've read that the integration of the non-nav controls (radio, etc.) into the nav system is cumbersome.

anonymousposts · December 2004

I would rather have side curtain airbags and ABS as standard equipment vs. a power seat. You can criticize the Accord for not having a standard power seat but it is a $16,000 car base and even at that price point you get side curtain airbags and ABS.

blane · December 2004

lmacmil:

I can't imagine that whoever wrote what you read "that the integration of the non-nav controls (radio, etc.) into the nav system is cumbersome" ever used the vehicle for more than one ride. Those voice controls are a pleasure to use and the entire integrated Navigation/Climate Control/Audio system works beautifully. In my opinion, it is worth every penny to get an Accord with the Navigation option.

lmacmil · December 2004

Blane,

Here's what MT said in Feb 2004, "The standard navigation system integrates the radio and climate controls, often forcing you to switch screens just to change some simple settings." Their capsule comment in the "what's not (hot)" synopsis was "convoluted nav/audio/climate controls."

Obviously not everyone would agree with this assessment.

blane · December 2004

lmacmil:

"Switching screens" in an Accord equipped with a Navigation system is generally a simple matter of speaking the command that you need. You then speak a second or, rarely needed, third voice command.

The MT evaluator writing that article was obviously not well enough acquainted with the voice commands to have made such a judgement. There is a human learning curve.

sockpuppet1969 · December 2004

I have been driving my 03 EXL with nav for almost 2 years now. I have taken at least 5 trips of over 1,000 miles and use the navigation system daily. Although I do love the navigation system, I agree with Motor Trend that the integration of some of the HVAC and radio controls can be awkward to use.

There should be a redundant hard button assigned to all the non-nav functions that you currently need to use the navigation screen to control. Just imagine what you would do if the nav screen stopped working properly.

And I don't consider the use of voice commands an acceptable alternative. It is cumbersome at best. It interrupts listening to the radio, doesn't work with the windows open and is intrusive or just plain rude to use when others are in the car with you.

bobst · December 2004

"Just imagine what you would do if the nav screen stopped working properly."

Good God!! You would actually have to know where you are going or have the vestigial skill of map reading.

Reminds me of a story about a guy with a voice actuated radio. He could say "Country" or "Rock" and the radio would find a station with that kind of music. One day he was mad at another driver and yelled "You idiot". The radio immediately changed stations to Howard Stern.

Yeah, you guessed it, I heard that joke while listening to Howard one morning.

htt · December 2004

I totally agree with you. The Accord's Navi is awesome. I need to learn the system to make the best out of it. It worths the time and money. I will not buy a new car without Navi if my financial allows.

ktnr · December 2004

Several people have mentioned how great and indispensable navigation systems are in their daily driving. I'm very curious about that.

I rarely need to refer to a map in daily driving. The only feature I can image being a daily use item would be real-time traffic information. Does the Accord w/Navi have real-time traffic in major markets? If not, what makes your Navi system so useful?

Just wondering.

nw1997 · December 2004

Does anyone know what are the torque specs for the lug nuts on a 2004 Accord V6 EX with the aluminum wheels? I am planning to have my tires rotated but do not want them to be tightened down with an impact wrench. From my understanding, tightening them down with an impact wrench can warp/bend the rotors.

lmacmil · December 2004

The spec should be in our owner's manual. If you go to a tire store, they should know. If they use a "torque stick" overtightening shouldn't be a problem but the best way is with a torque wrench.

blane · December 2004

ktnr:

In addition to all of the navigational features, I use voice commands to keep my eyes on the road while changing radio stations, audio volume, CD tracks, interior temperature, fan speed, airflow direction (defroster, vent, floor, etc).

No, the Accord doesn't have integrated real-time traffic reports. That's so far only been incorporated in the 2005 Acura RL. However, the Accord's voice controlled XM radio gives me instant detailed traffic and weather reports in any major metropolitan area. See here:

http://xmradio.com/programming/neighborhood.jsp?hood=traffic

imidazol97 · December 2004

tightening...

They are only as good as the user. Someone who goes around alternating lugnuts and tightening a little more on successive trips around the lugs will get good results.

Someone who does all the tightening in one fast trip around the lugs will have some overtightened and some marginally tight.

I've checked tightness after having them done after rotations through the years. Even had one use the WRONG torque stick and tighten them to 150 pounds. That got me a free alignment (but the store went out of business before I redeemed it after I purchased new tires).

If you have a reputable store with good workers who stay there more than a few weeks, you probably will get a good job. I don't like the way they do it with a torque wrench; they'll just lower the car so much of the weight is on the wheels (more on front than rear) and tighten with the torque wrench and you're done. They weren't real evenly tightened when I checked at home.

accorded · December 2004

The answer to your simple and good question is 80 ft/lbs. This spec is in the owners manual but difficult to find. I looked in the "changing a flat tire" section on page 252. My owners manual came with my 2004 EXV6 sedan. This spec is for installing the spare, but my belief is that it should work for the alloy wheels as well. BTW my accord has performed flawlessly for 1 year and 13,000 miles and I am happy with the purchase after driving an Acura Legend for 10 years.

-Accorded

indydriver · December 2004

Curious as to your story of moving from Acura back to Honda. I am currently looking at Acuras, so I have more than a passing interest.

briansbluetoy · December 2004

Does anyone have any instructions on how to change the dust/pollen filter in the '03 accord? I recall it was quite a pain on my '99 oddyssey. I have searched the 2003 accord archives but did not find any. I normally find these instructions on Handaaccessories.com but not there this time.

sockpuppet1969 · December 2004

Clearly, a navigation system is not an absolute necessity. It is also a toy. He are some examples of how I use it...

First the obvious, it is extremely helpful on road trips and when driving in areas you are unfamiliar. One of the nice things about using it on long trips is the ability to tell how far (miles and time) you are from your final destination. I can call the people I am going to visit and give them a reasonably close approximation of my ETA (although the system does tend to over estimate travel times on longer trips you quickly learn to adjust for this). It is also great for finding places to eat while on the road. Fast food and rest stops can get old pretty quick. The nav system can point you to any class of food just by asking. Also great for detouring yourself around traffic jams.

I have found an uncountable number of short-cuts to places I go everyday around my house. I use it to find restaurants, stores and friend's houses I have never been to before. I used it while shopping for Christmas by asking the system to locate the nearest jewelry stores and sort by distance to travel. It gives you the phone number of the stores so I could call ahead and see if they had the piece I was looking for. I am using it while new house shopping to take me to all the houses I am interested in. It also allows me to see an "aerial" view of the neighborhood and determine how long my commute to work or my in-laws would be from the new house.

It is really a lot of fun and I will never purchase a new vehilce without one again.

sockpuppet1969 · December 2004

Good God!! You would actually have to know where you are going or have the vestigial skill of map reading.

I have to assume you either misunderstood my statement or are being facetious. Obviously you would lose the navigation ability if the screen went down.

My point was that you would also lose the ability to program radio presents, turn the A/C off, control air flow direction, and other non-navigation related functions.

77hchbck · December 2004

We just returned from a Christmas visit with my daughter and on the return trip (320mi) I measured 35.6 mpg cruising at 70mph with no AC and a mix of rolling hills and flat terrain. It appears this 4 banger is still a very fuel efficient, reliable cruiser for the interstates. I'm delighted to find this out. Other than the tranny issue, I'm still enjoying this little sedan.

Speaking of the autotrans, I've put over 22K on the replacement and all is going well to date. At approximately 135K miles, I plan to do a couple of drain/refills with the Honda fluid. Have been draining/refilling every 10K since the reman was installed. Yeah I've lost faith in Honda's maintenance schedule for this item.

The NGK copper plugs currently have over 30K and appear to still produce good ignition. I'll probably run them a while further, but not further than 45K and less if drivability issues arise. I'm still on the original distributor cap, rotor and wires. I'll buy their replacements soon, but don't plan to replace them until 150K.

Hopefully Honda can get the 7th Gen autotrans to behave better than the 6th Gens did after a few miles were accumulated. Time will tell.

indydriver · December 2004

Its very satisfying to hear of the value you have received from your Honda product. Keep it maintained and it may run forever. I was a long time Honda motorcycle enthusiast and have tremendous respect for Honda's motor engineering. I have gotten away from their products during my child-rearing years and am now excited about getting back in the family with an Acura purchase.

bobst · December 2004

After we got the kids through college, we bought an Acura RSX. I absolutely, positively love it. It reminds me of the feeling I got when I bought a used TR250 in 1969.

rcc8179 · December 2004

This filter is located behind the glove box and is pretty easy to replace.

(1) Open the glove box and empty the contents.

(2) Unhook the damper on the right side of the glove box.

(3) Squeeze together the 2 sides of the glove box at the back and pull forward. The glove box will now be held only at the 2 bottom hinges.

(4) Remove the filter holder/assembly and replace the filter.

Total estimated time: 5-10 minutes

1hopeck · December 2004

After reading my owners manual about recommended oil changes, I noticed Honda states to replace the oil filter every-other oil change. That means replacing the oil filter every 15K miles. This does not seem smart to replace the engine oil with freash oil and leave in a used oil filter. Can someone explain?

indydriver · December 2004

Yes. Don't be a cheapskate. Buy a filter every time you change the oil. Cheap insurance.

briansbluetoy · December 2004

Thanks rcc8179!

ktnr · December 2004

Worried about your oil filter clogging? Cut your used one open and look through the filter material to see what's been trapped.

Unless you've just blown your engine, I guaranty that you'll find almost zero foreign material inside the filter - certainly not enough to clog it. See for yourself. Any decent oil filter should be able to withstand 15,000 miles of wear and tear without failing in some way.

If you're concerned about leaving a half-quart of dirty oil in your engine during oil changes, you could always dump out the filter and put it back on. Personally, I'm always worried about dry-starting my engine with a new oil filter that has to fill up before the engine gets oil pressure. Thus, when I change an oil filter, I fill the new filter with fresh oil before installing it (obviously not an option if your filter is horizontal).

You think Jiffy-Lube does this? Not. Which is worse - not replacing a still clean oil filter at every oil change -OR- running your engine without any oil pressure for a few seconds twice as often?

venus537 · December 2004

great post on how useful the navi can be. most people don't understand ALL of the capabilities of a good navi system.

i suspect there's an awful lot of people like you who would never get a vehicle without one again.

ktnr · December 2004

I've seen several different Navigation systems and like Honda/Acura's the best. However, besides purchase cost (and repair cost), I've got one major reservation about integrated navigation systems - upgradability.

I bought a PC knowing that I could easily upgrade the operating system after a few years and I've done that twice now. I've upgraded the O/S of my Palm-based PDA and upgraded the firmware of my digital camera. I've upgraded the O/S of my Blackberry wireless E-mail device. My $300 television I'll upgrade to HDTV by just replacing it.

But in ten years from now, Lord willing and I'm still driving the same nice car, I won't have upgraded the O/S, features or functionality of my Navi system?

For now, portable, non-integrated navigation systems seem the most attractive to me personally. I can upgrade them, move them from one car to another, and when I fly to a different city and rent a car, I can have one with me. Definitely not as cool as asking your car for the time of day or telling it to play a CD instead of the radio though.

indydriver · December 2004

Your argument seems to make sense, however, I have been doing it the old-fashion way (3,000 mi w/ new dry filter) for over 30 years on a wide variety of two and four wheeled entertainment devices and have never had an oil related engine problem. I am confident my experience is not unusual. One's attitude towards maintenance depends upon your intentions regarding length of ownership. I'm of the age where after about 100,000 miles of service (4-5 years), I hand 'em down to my kids. So, I buy cars with the intention of someone in my family driving them until they're worthless. Obviously, I want them to stay mechanically sound and be safe.

imidazol97 · December 2004

"dump out the filter and put it back on."

For the couple of dollars filters cost, I'll just put on the new one instead of messing with dumping oil out of a used one.

As for starting engines without pressure... the oil present on bearings and walls will handle the 3 seconds until pressure builds in the empty tubes to the filter and the filter, just the same as it does every time you start the car. I certainly don't rev the engine when it starts, I just let it idle. I too fill the filter with oil--just to be safer, but I don't feel it makes a measurable difference in engine life.

I never cut open a filter, but I suspect a lot of the particulates trapped are not visible to the naked eye. Does anyone have a link on the web about the amount of trapped matter, and perhaps about the visual appearance of used filter media?

ktnr · December 2004

Honestly, I suspect that my concerns are unfounded regarding running engines without oil pressure for the few seconds it takes for a new oil filter to fill. If it were a real problem, somebody would have mentioned it before now I suppose. Likewise, my guess is that replacing the filter at every oil change is similarly unnecessary.

It's funny all the different things we do to make ourselves feel better about our cars.

ktnr · December 2004

Try bobistheoilguy.com

That site could keep anyone busy reading for the better part of day. I believe there are some posts there from people who have dissected used oil filters.

imidazol97 · December 2004

Where the recommended oil change is 7500 miles for mixed city driving, I would change oil at about 4000. When the oil begins to look bad because it's carrying a lot of particulate matter, I am ready to over spend on the oil AND on a new filter. (I do changes myself.)

I put the hot oil off the dipstick on a piece of paper towel from the kitchen and when the darker spot is about the size of a dime, I get ready to change the oil. Try this with your oil every couple of weeks and you'll see the particulate load increase in the oil. I use two drops. I also rub the oil between my fingers to feel the oil.

I admit I have used a filter two changes--in cold winter and with mostly short 1- 5 mile drives on my wife's car, the oil has gotten dark and I've changed it early. The filter probably went 5500 to 6000 miles for both changes. Otherwise, new filter. Fram's always had been cheap and I bought on sale at $2 each.

The cost of the new filter is security that the engine will be better when my wife makes me trade the car at 150 or 200K miles.

imidazol97 · December 2004

Another opinion of mine is that it probably is much more important to have the engine oil changed right after a long higher speed drive to have as much goop suspended to drain out as possible.

If anyone can find good data from bobistheoilguy's site, please comment here. I got lost in that site trying to find what I was looking for long ago. Get a fresh cup of coffee before you start that site.

fgf001 · December 2004

I agree with another poster that suggested an upholstery shop to modify the seats to your liking. Another way, although more expensive, is to buy aftermarket seats and have them retrofitted. Either solution is certainly more sensible than not driving your new car that you just bought because you are miserable.

fgf001 · December 2004

What specific information are you seeking?

bobst · December 2004

When is the last time you had a car problem that might have been avoided by changing your oil more often?

I think of the many problems I have had over the years - power steering failure, radiator leaks, alternators, distributors, starters, other electrics - none have been oil related. I ain't burned out a main bearing or thrown a rod in a long time.

Still we get the oil changed every 4K miles. Old habits die hard.

imidazol97 · December 2004

Seeking info about how much is being trapped by filters and how rapidly that occurs. Is it visible like lint on a home furnace air filter or is it invisible?

atlantabenny · December 2004

We in fact cut up and examined used oil filters at Exxon where I worked for some time. Filters are a snapshot of a motor's condition, and the presence or absence of particulates - while it indicates the filter's effectiveness - points more importantly to why and how particulates got there in the first place.

The bottom line is that unlike transmission fluid which isn't exposed to products of combustion (and thus can take much longer drain intervals), engine oil is.

Burned or unburned fuel, when it joins lubricant, thins out and otherwise degrades that lubricant so as to promote the dreaded metal-to-metal contact.

Said metal-to-metal contact then produces particulates, which just plain wear out an engine given enough time.

All to say, if one looks back at the root cause of engine wear which - per this hypothesis - is fuel dilution, we come to this conclusion:

To nip (minimize, more accurately) engine wear in the bud, we need to adopt maintenance practices that go further upstream of frequent oil changes.

These would include changing at earlier or recommended intervals the engine air filter and spark plugs & wires, engine components that impact combustion attainment (guess why a car will finally pass emissions after simply changing these). Corollarily, engine cooling affects oil longevity, indicating that coolant change and system cleaning are in the maintenance cards as well.

That the Accord has either a ULEV or LEV engine gives us consumers more maintenance wiggle room; to the maintenance-intense among us, I would recommend including the aforementioned ignition and cooling items for a total approach.

BTW, let me take this opportunity to wish you forum folks a happy, peaceful 2005 !

chillenhonda · December 2004

I owned a 90 Accord LX 5-speed coupe from 99-01. I bought it used from a friend with 145K miles for $2600 and sold it with 202K miles for $1500. It was a great car and required nothing more than the maintenance items.

Since then, Ive been thru a 2000 Prelude, a 2000 Accord EXL, a 1986 Prelude Si, and a 2003 Civic EX. I recently came across a 90 Accord EX 4dr auto with 130K miles, in amazing, 1-owner, condition, and bought it for $2500 as a third vehicle.

Im wondering what the differences between the LX and EX were in 1990. And what common problems were for this generation.

There was a seatbelt buckle recall, and I know the power antennas always are messed up.

The EX had a power sunroof, body color exterior trim versus black, 15" alloy wheels versus 14" wheel covers, and dual exhaust with 5 more hp and tq. Im sure there were more features on the EX that the LX lacked, but I cant seem to think of anymore.

Older Honda Accords

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