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Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager



  • Hey... ask and you shall receive, eh? Thanks so much for the heads up... I didn't know about tonights Dateline episode... I'll definitely be watching!

    I'm really crossing my fingers that the Chrysler/Dodge minivans test well... I just can't seem to find any other vehicle that has all the options, feel, and overall package that I'm looking for!

    Thanks again!
  • I think I misspoke regarding the 3.5 V.6.. sorry! You are correct.. the EX comes with the 3.8V6 as standard... The 3.5 V6 is supposed to come out sometime soon... but not as of yet.

    In regards to what you're looking for.. sounds like we're in the same boat too.. I also like the Steel Blue best... but am opting for the taupe leather (hides all the crumbs from my kids food best). I would really like the LTD version, however I'm finding I really like the convertibility of the 3rd split bench in the LXI's... I wish that CHrysler would offer the LTD with a split bench! When I asked the CHrysler dealer about this.. he said, " Chrysler didn't figure than anyone who could afford this minivan (the ltd.. ) would care about a 3rd row split bench!" Genius, eh?!! Geeze!!!

    I was able to test drive a Dodge GC EX, AWD.. completely maxed out as well as a TC LTD, AWD, and a TC LXI FWD all on the same day.. I was given free reign by the salesman and able to park them all side by side and just walk back and forth comparing them... I ruled out the DC just because of my overall feel of the look. I like the exterior trim, etc.. of the TC better. I also figured that since the DC I drove was 37K and the TC LXI and LTD's were 37 and 38K respectively... why get the DC? Resale seems to be better on the TC's... My relative Chrysler dealer in Oregon also told me the same thing...

    The video systems I've seen were in a DC EX... I was not impressed with the picture myself... I was told by a different dealer in WA that another option is to save some bucks and move the convertible console from btwn the driver/passenger to btwn the 2nd row seats.. then get one of the cheap tv/vcr combo's at Costco and put it btwn the driver/passenger seat and plug her in! Has anyone done this? You'd get a 13" tv screen vs. the 6" too! I would only do this for long trips... You can still use the wireless headphones too!

    I'll be curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this idea!

    Good luck!

    PS.. IN regards to the bit of name-calling/nastiness on the board today... come on people.. this is a place to post INFORMATION... share and keep it nice. I personally am tired of reading the same posts from some regarding "not buying a Chrysler", etc... I don't know how to tell who is a dealer for Honda vs. Chrysler, etc.. I just appreciate feedback from TC/DC owners helping me to make an informed decision for my family (since my husband wants nothing to do with this decision!) :o)
  • egrandegrand Posts: 14
    Maria, I too considered the option of putting a TV/VCR combo between the seats. The screen size was much better and the cost much less than the Mopar fold down 6.5" screen. I changed my mind when I read on some site, about the concerns of a 13" TV flying around in a car in case of an accident and the damage that this projectile could cause. I had never considered that.I went with the Mopar system which the kids and I are very happy with. Another plus is that the sound is wired through the cars speakers. Elliot
  • Elliot,

    Wow!! I cannot believe that I didn't even consider that! With all my concerns about safety, etc... I'm really embarrassed I even brought it up now! Yikes!

    Ok... You've totally convinced me not to go that route now! Thank you! See.. that's what I love about this board.. people sharing info and helping people! :o)

    On a good note.. I have heard that Mopar and others are offering larger fold down screens these days... don't know how much more they are... but would possibly consider. Someone had posted about this on one of these boards... I think the clarity is supposed to be better on the 6"... but the person that posted about his larger screen flip down said that the larger screen was much easier to view and the quality was fine for his needs... Just a thought!

    Thanks again!
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    You're welcome! That's what my co-host and I are here for :-) As a Chrysler AWD minivan driver myself, I'll be watching for interest-sake, even though I already know the results of the 5mph bumper tests. ;-) I won't spoil it for you though. The 40mph offset crash tests in about a month or so should be interesting though, and they'll certainly be what you've been looking for.

    I can tell you right now that it will be improved over the previous generation Chrysler vans (model year 1996 to 2000), but perhaps not quite to Toyota Sienna levels. Chrysler revealed at a dealers conference a little while back that it had mis-judged the (very positive) effect that good crash test results would have on sales (ex. the Windstar, Sienna, or Odyssey) and that it expected the '01 vans to do better, but not best in all of the areas.

    Good luck!

    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Y'all will have to fill "the co-host" in on the Dateline report in since I don't have a TV (guess I can find their web site):-).

    btw, I hitched a ride down from the ski hill today (I don't have a car either, lol!) in a '94 Dodge Caravan. Owner had to replace the tranny at 5k, and is now at 125k on the vehicle, had no further problems, and loves it.

    SUV and Vans Message Boards
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    That noise won't be nothing after you back into a pole at 5mph and cause $4000+ damage to your van. Now that will be a noise.
  • egrandegrand Posts: 14
    Now that's a useful post for this board! Must make your decision to buy the Odyssey feel like the right one......yet the doubts & regrets still won't go away, will they
  • dmathews... What is up with that comment? Did you already catch the episode of Dateline tonight that our host mentioned?? Is there something other than the usual.. " I hate Dodge/Chrysler" theme here you're trying to get across... Unlike you... some of us just want to share information and make a knowledgeable and unbiased decision about our future car/van. In this day and age... with the ridiculous prices we have to pay for these vans... you can bet your (well.. you know..) that I'm not going to make my decision based on some guys constant digs towards one particular company. I have a completely open mind about what car/suv, etc.. I'll choose to put my priceless family in. My decision will be based on all the facts... safety ratings, prices, comfort, options, reliability, and consumer feedback (to some degree).

    Are you a Honda salesman???? It seems pretty strange to me that you are on all these boards.. Chrysler/Dodge, Odyssey vs. the TC, CHevy Venture, etc... posting all your dislikes towards every manufacturer except Honda... Hmm...

    I'm happy for you if you actually do have an Odyssey and really like it.. that's just grand... However, in case you didn't catch the title of this board.... as a reminder.. it's "The 2001 Next Generation DC/TC".. not the "Buy an Odyssey cause AMerican Cars Suck!" board.

    Please do us all a favor and stick to the topic at hand.. the TC and DC... ( Maybe I'll have egg in my face if you are actually referring to the testing that is being reported on Dateline tonight... but I'll have to wait a few more hours to see!)

    Happy Trails to all!! :o) (My I've had a busy day on here today!)
  • OK... well... guess I know what dmathews was referring to now... the 4000.00 total repair cost for all of the 4 bumper tests on the DC..

    HOWEVER... does this rear bumper 2000.00 portion have something to do with the electronic lift gate?? Just curious...

    I will STILL wait to see the actual crash ratings... because as many car manufacturers noted in their responses to the bumper tests... the interior passenger safety is their primary concern... not bumper design and overall repair costs of those bumpers. I share the same feeling. I would however like a cheaper bill on the repairs... Still... my family's safety is still the primary concern... as always!

    I cheated and went to msnbc's website to read the summary article on the crash testing... just couldn't wait!! :o) (Also being a mom of two with no breaks/sleep.. need my rest... I'll be asleep when it airs at 10pm! :o)

    I'm sure you're getting your kicks dmathews... but please remember why we are on THIS particular board...

    I sign off with a slight bit of egg on my face... HEE HEE!
  • aps5aps5 Posts: 43
    As a 2001 T&C AWD owner who has complained about the noise, I can tell you that the hyperbole on this board is out of control.

    This is the noise: at about 2100 rpm, there is a faint rumble heard and vibration felt on the gas pedal. Since it's only at one rpm, you pop right through it when accelerating, and when cruising, you might never notice it. It should not be a deal breaker with this van, since it is only bothering folks since the van is so ridiculously quiet. Test drive the Honda van and you will feel like you are in a tin can/ go cart compared to the DC products. The DC van is American, and that is why I bought a 100k full warranty from
    So far 2 friends who have driven the van have now bought one, each after driving the Honda.
    The (presumed) worse repair record can be neutralized with the extended warranty, and then you get to drive one of the quietest and smoothest cars on the road.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Thankyou for the backup hotspur and that was the reason I first started bashing other brands--payback. They don't like me bashing them but then again I don't like them bashing me, so....I will from now on keep all my answers above board and hope that the Chryler van owners will do the same when they are on the Honda sites. I hate having to drive a Honda and after working for 35 years at GM I have taken a lot of egg in the face over this purchase and maybe I have went overboard in trying tojustify my purchase. My last 3 vehicles were Caddys, 2 devilles and a Seville STS. After many visits to the dealer for warrany repairs (the same ones Electical) I was going to go elsewhere but the factory sent me a $2500 certificate toward the lease/purchase if I would give them another chance. So with all the rebates, my discount and the certificate we leased the STS. Picked it up on a Thursday night and Sunday while driving through the mall parking lot the power locks, seats, power tilt steering wheel windows etc. all started moving on their own. When you are 6'4" and the seat is moving you into the dash in your $54,000 car you say this is enough. No more, but that don't give me an excuse for bashing Chryler so again I'm sorry, just a little bit P-O'd at all american cars.
  • Hotspur...

    "Just tell Sam to keep his unpleasant comments to the Quest threads. He adds nothing to the body of knowledge here"

    I believe this is your quote off of the Odyssey board for a bothersome Nissan-QUest-loving individual on that board.

    This is our same goal and feeling towards dmathews and any others who come to the DC/TC board to promote their favorite car. It is a waste of our time to have posts in the nature of these.

    The purpose of the TC/DC board, as I stated in my post 510, is to gather and share knowledge about the Dodge/Chrysler minivans.... GOOD AND BAD!

    You made two good points in your message, "Both are fine minivans" and "Just lay off, and these threads will be informative, not rancorous." I agree completely! I grew up in a family that drove Hondas.. and a Suburban. They are great cars.. just doesn't happen to be my choice for my next family car... nor is it the choice of most of us who post here... THat's why we are HERE.. not on the Odyssey board. (or Quest, Silhouette, Venture, etc.. board)

    To clarify... I am not a DC/TC owner... I don't even own a minivan.. yet! I browse some of the minivan boards to read info. and learn more about each of the different models I originally test drove. After 2 months of research, this is the board that I'm most interested in. (Still waiting to decide until those crash tests come!) I am for the record... a stay at home mom of 2 children... and a former elementary/middle school teacher of 10 years. I think I must have had some of these people who make the immature pokes at the cars/trucks that they don't like in my classes! (Say... 1st grade? )

    The Pro-Odyssey folks just need to post in the appropriate boards... We are all well-aware of the great features of the Odyssey ( and some of the features that make it not our personal choices) Remember.. there is a board titled,"Odyssey vs. the T&C". This board is made for just such discussions as dmathews and others so desperately seek. I'm sure our hosts will agree!

    Kids up now.. gotta go! Happy Trails.. in whatever you happen to drive!

    Maria (still driving my 92' Ford Explorer!)
  • Thank you for your honesty and candidness dmathews... It does enlighten us all as to your purpose of coming to this board...

    Just remember that not all of us engage in the type of bashing that you refer to. I for one do not and think it is really obnoxious.

    I haven't owned enough American cars to really have a history such as yours.. (only two) Some of us are bound to get burned somewhere down the road in our car ownership experiences... foreign and American both. I hope that I won't be one of them however!

    Thank you for your restraint in the future! :o)

  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    For the record, I have also posted "why you should buy a Chrysler T&C" beside the "why you should buy a Honda Odyssey". And I also posted a message comparing two vans fairly (sorry if you missed that post). The point I was tried to make was there are many reasons not to buy or buy a Odyssey/T&C. Also, I HAVE NEVER posted any messages on Honda owners' board. I could but I didn't. So if any of you Odyssey owners want to post anything regarding to Honda Odyssey please post your message in "Town & Country Vs. Honda Odyssey" and not here and I will promise you guys I will do the same (sorry I have no control over other T&C owners). We got a deal?
  • I'm sure the magnitude of this noise varies from van to van. Ours has changed slightly (intensified) as we put on more miles. It is true that as you drive around town, the engine will move quickly through the 'vibration' range and it is not really an issue. Cruising on the highway is a different matter - the 2100-2300 RPM range relates to 60-65 miles an hour. For my particular van, travel at that speed and you have to put up with a resonating, loud, humming vibration. Travel any length of time at that speed, and you will end up with a headache (due to the resonating characteristic). You can talk over it, it's not that loud, I certainly don't want to exaggerate - but it is substantially louder than any other operating range and definitely uncomfortable.

    For those of you with 'less' noise than this, consider yourself fortunate.

    For those with a noise of this magnitude that you don't find acceptable (after many deep breaths and a couple weeks to think about it), my suggestion is to take the car to the dealer for the problem to be solved, keep the repair ticket clearly stating any action taken (including none), and register your complaint with Chrysler Customer Service. Keep at the dealer to check Chrysler service bulletins.... and document every conversation, etc. Keep taking it back to be repaired. Ask to have the Regional Service Representative drive the van on his/her next visit to the dealer.

    I am hopeful that Chrysler will find a way to rectify the problem. If in the future, they decide not to, I believe I (we) will need all the appropriate history of repair attempts, discussions, etc to get satisfaction.
  • So glad I found this great source of information! I'm looking at leasing a '01 T&C LTD FWD or GC ES (29S Pkg) FWD. The lease on our current '98 GC LE FWD is expiring in April. Reading through the posts in this discussion, I've learned more things about '01 models and DC minivans in general than from anywhere else. Thank you all so much!!!

    I have test driven both these vehicles and noticed hardly a difference, except for the luxuries on LTD. Would like to know:

    1. What are the advantages/disadvantages of new 3.5l engine arriving in March, offered only on LTD? According to an early-2000 DC special report and MSN Carpoint, there's not much of a difference between the new engine and the 3.8l i.e. extra 15 bhp is rated at a higher RPM (6400 vs. 5000) and extra torque is 5 lb-ft. Also, the special report mentions 89 octane gas is preferred for the 3.5l. I'm not sure if these specs are the most current, though.

    2. ES has standard touring suspension and it's not available on LTD. Is it because LTD has load levelling as standard? If I get load levelling on ES, which is an option, is it possible for me to have touring suspension as well?

    3. Do 17" wheels on ES give a better ride than 16" ones on T&C or vice versa?

    4. Is low-frequency noise/gas pedal vibration a problem on both AWD and FWD models?

    5. Is it possible to program memory seats/mirrors on LTD to work with remote control key fob?

    6. We're very pleased with overall quality of our present GC with zero problems in three years! In the past, has Chrysler product quality affected by layoffs and plant closings?

    Any information/thought/idea is greatly appreciated.

    Regards and thanks in advance.
  • kkshinkkshin Posts: 13
    To tomtomtom...
    Yes, I am an asian. But, I do not hate American nor American made product. Chrysler's Town & Country is not what you can say "full american made." Take a look on post #513 by hotspur for your information. For next time, keep your racist comments to yourself unless you are prepared to face to face with me.

    To egrand...
    pgs_28 and I are not same person. Don't make an accusation!

    To mnoutdoors...
    I agree with your post #518. I too have headache when I am cruising at 60 mph and I already met with regional technical representative from Chrysler, but he could not solve the problem. He left me without saying what he will going to do. Currently, I am hoping that Chrysler will solve the problem in near future.
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Mnoutdoors... thx. The more I hear of people with this problem the more I am convinced that this a problem that must be dealt with. I think my problem is minimized by the fact that I have the on-board TV and have it pumped through the van's EXCELLENT speaker set up. Please continue to keep us all up to speed should you hear anything more on this subject.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    This is what I said, "I hope the following comment won't offend anybody, this is just my observation and my experience. pgs_28 and kkshin, are you two Asian? The reason I said that is many Asian people have a thing against American cars and they love Japanese cars." I too is Asian and I do have a lot of friends telling me how they dislike American Brand cars...and yes they would rather buy a Quest instead of a Villager, or a 3000GT instead of a Stealth. I was just checking if you are in that category and I am glad you are not. I apologize if I offended you.
  • kkshinkkshin Posts: 13
    Thanks for your response and thanks for your apologize.
  • "I honestly hope you don't think I was the one over-exaggerating or going for the lawsuit???? I was only responding to pgs_28 comments about how terribly noisy his/her TC Ltd.. is... "damaging to her infant/child", etc...

    I was agreeing with you.
  • "HOWEVER... does this rear bumper 2000.00 portion have something to do with the electronic lift gate?? Just curious...

    Regardless of how you look at it, $2K in damage from hitting an object at 5mph with a "bumper" is incredibly high. Chrysler should take some heat for that.
  • Grplavloff,

    I will be the first to admit... I don't look forward to any repair bills such as described on Dateline about the DC or TC.

    I would still like to know if the 2000.00 repair to the rear bumper does have anything to do with the electronic lift gate however. As with many cars that have more electronic gadgets we as consumers have to decide if we want the convenience of the gadgets (electronic sliding doors, liftgates, etc...)enough to pay for them when they break.

    I use to own a Toyota Supra... great car... tons of electronic gadgets that all needed to be repaired over time. I loved driving the car, but hated to pay the repair costs. I guess this is just my frame of mind... and nobody has to share it with me.

    If Chrysler is listening... yes.. please fix the bumper issue so that if I buy your minivan... it won't cost me a small fortune to fix it! (And.. at the same time.. please ensure the safety of my family with a 5-star safety rating, etc..!)

  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    From what I've been able to tell, no, the $2K repair bill does not have anything to do with the electronic tailgate mechanism (which is housed in the upper left - driver's side - corner of the tailgate opening, and not on the tailgate itself).

    I think the reason why it is so pricey is that the tailgate was significantly dented/damaged in the test, and hence needed to be completely replaced in addition to the rear bumper and bumper support. Obviously this is quite a bit of parts and labour.

    FYI, a vehicle which gets 5 stars for the driver and passenger in the NHTSA's full width front test (i.e. the entire front end of the vehicle is smashed at 35 mph into a non-deforming concrete wall) may not do well in the IIHS's 40mph front offset crash (i.e. 40% of the front end of the vehicle gets smashed into a deformable barrier, simulating another car's front end). The latter test basically tests the effectiveness of the vehicle's crumple zone, as well as the strength of its structure/platform and safety cage; since only 40% of the vehicle's front end is crashed, this test is more demanding The NHTSA's test, in contrast, emphasises the vehicle's restraint systems - ex. effectiveness of the seatbelts, airbags, etc. - and not so much the vehicle's structure.

    May I suggest an aftermarket reverse warning system (can be had for about US$200, or less, depending on the models) to help you avoid any low speed rear end accidents? I have one on my vehicle, in addition to the convex stick-on Fresnel lens, and both complement each other very well. The reverse warning system gives me audible warnings from 1 metre and below (to an object), and visual warnings starting from 1.5 metres and below. Of course, one needs to be backing up at low speeds for this system to give the driver sufficient warning to stop.

    Vans and SUVs message boards
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    The funny part is auto insurance rates are less for Chrysler minivans than for that other minivan which I won't name that had less damage cost. Can anyone explain that one?

    Just another example of simulated test not translating in to what happens in the real world.

  • enetheneth Posts: 285
    Simple explanation: auto insurance rates aren't based solely on one factor (collision repair cost). Unfortunately for Honda and Toyota owners, theft rates for those vehicles are higher than for DaimlerChrysler products, which offsets some of the disadvantage of higher collision repair costs. Depreciation is another variable - D-C vans depreciate faster, and are probably more likely to see their owners drop comprehensive collision coverage earlier in the life cycle than owners of Honda and Toyota vans.

    I would further suspect that minivan drivers are more careful than average drivers, based on experience and lifestyles - fewer collisions, fewer payouts, lower premiums, whether or not the van is more expensive to repair.

    Insurance premiums are by necessity averages for certain populations - however, if you're unlucky enough to get into a low-speed accident with a new Caravan or Voyager, etc., you'll pay more than someone with a similar accident in a van with a better-designed bumper system, that's for sure - collision premiums can rise on a case-by-case basis on claims history alone.
  • In the rather effusive press release at the link given above, one finds a description of the advantages of DC's new bumper, including:

    "Improved impact resistance – the system was designed to meet DaimlerChrysler requirements and passes Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards 581 at 5 miles per hour."

    Could the requirements have been for $4,000 in damages?
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295

    And in the fine print, standard 581 goes on to say, "make sure that Honda owners foot the bill."

    Read it for yourself and thank Ronald Regan while you're at it.

  • The GE press release cited above on DC's new bumpers reads "meet DaimlerChrysler requirements."

    Lest anyone infer from posting #528 that the Odyssey has high average accident losses, one can check the IIHS/HLDI compilation of actual loss data (injury, collision, and theft) through June 2000 at the following web site:

    We should all keep our fingers crossed that the new DC minivans will have equal or better numbers when the next recompilation is done.

  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    I would suggest that people make a telephone call to their auto insurance company to compare rates. I'll bet the rates quoted will be cheaper for Chrysler minivans across the board.

    Here's an example of "real world" collision repair cost. target=_blank

  • In regard to babyangels1...HI...We just leased a new 2001 T&C LXi...I don't know if you'd call it "tricked out"..As for AWD, I live in Ft Lauderdale, FL. So needless to say,we got FWD. One bit of advice though..I don't think you can switch out the bench seat for the split's more involved than that because of the seatbelt situation and the way it's designed. We got leather, 4 disc changer(which is the same great system that is the top of the line in the Limited), rear liftgate (love that feature), and the 3.8L engine (don't even consider not getting that). We also got the 29U package (about $2,220 list price). It includes the armrest storage that is movable, power seat on passenger side, leather seating, etc. Be careful if you are tricking out an LXi..don't get the 25 doesn't come with as many features and you still have to add the option of leather separately for another $800. I don't have it but I heard the handling package is a great feature (I think it is only like $100-$150 extra). Also, the side airbags would be nice. We wanted and got the Bright Silver with the Navy Blue leather inside...I like you thought I'd never own a minivan...but this vehicle is such a pleasure to drive (we only got it three weeks ago). The retail on our vehicle was $33,160 including the $655 destination charge from Chrysler. Go to a site (same as the used car company but they have a few select dealers that are set up for no haggle new car different cities across the country..for example, their is one here in Florida (Orlando)that is a Chrysler dealer...for purchasing, they can't be beat on price. As far as leasing, they suck. They only finance leases through Chrysler financial which is so uncompetitive. We came out of pocket $1,000 including the first month payment, tax,tag and whatever...did a 39 month lease with an allowance of 15,000 miles/year for $476/month + tax...we were getting quotes from all the other dealers in the neighborhood of $518 plus tax/month all the way up to $578/month (for a similarly equipped vehicle). The basic difference between a Limited and Lxi:

    The 3.8L engine is optional on LXi
    The features of 29U package are standard (including leather) on Limited
    Sueded inserts on top of seat on Limited
    Body colored luggage rack on rood on Limited
    Memory seats and memory side mirrors on Limited
    Heated seats on Limited
    Power liftgate is standard on Limited
    High polished shiny wheels on Limited (in silver, the LXi wheels look better than shiny ones)
    50/50 split seat on LXi (to me, that was a plus)
    (We will use the features of only folding one half of the back seats up more than we'll have people sitting in the way back of vehicle...besides, it can't be that much more uncomfortable in the middle of the back what are you more likely to get more use out of...seats that are more versatile or some whiny person complaigning...hey, they should be lucky enough that you let them ride in your new van.
    The differences between the two similarly equipped isn't justified by the $2500 difference ( that difference is just a guess)

    If you find a car at, some local dealers will match the deal...A friend of mine went into a local dealer and they matched the internet deal at carmax...his Limited listed for like $36,000 and he paid including all rebates $30,700 (and it was fully loaded...the only thing he didn't get is the flip down television and the smokers group package).
  • Sorry if I missed something, you actually paid more for a LXi than your friend's Limited?...Anyway, I agree with you on the wheels, I like the LXi's wheels better than the Chromes I have on my Limited. It is a pain to wash with all those gaps between the spokes. I bought the Limited because I like the bench seat..yes it is very heavy (removed it once).
  • I am in the process of narrowing down a van for a family of 5 and large dog! Interested in the LXI but am concerned with safety issues (serpentine belt/pulley problem I have been reading about). Does anyone out there have a 2001 LXI or LX and how do you like it? Honda's car seemed tighter (narrower) and didn't have power driver's seat adjustments-but nice drive position. Confused, please help!!
  • abealiabeali Posts: 13
    To ingramwd2 .... I just picked up a new 2001 GC ES, FWD earlier today (yesterday!). This was the second of two vehicles of this model that I test drove. I looked intently for that reported noise/vibration and I didn't hear or feel the slightest hint of a problem on either vehicle. So I don't think that this is an issue with these models. The 3.8L engine is so smooth and nimble that I can't think of a reason why one would pass it up for the future 3.5L. This is really one fun car to drive ....

    The touring suspension on mine came with the 29S package on the vehicle. The load leveling came separately as part of the other Trailer Tow Group. I noticed that you can order the Touring suspension separate from the 29S, but you would probably have to order it that way from the factory ... I have not seen the touring suspension just by itself on any dealer stocks ... and I looked at several.

    The 17" tires with the chromes that came with the 29S really look great!!! I don't know about the difference in the ride as opposed to the 16" though, but the van rides very tight and quick and with very nice road feel.

    I, too, took back my 98 GC with 45K miles and without any problems to speak off during the last 3 years. It has been a great car for us and the family had lots of fun in it. My kids were sad waving good buy to that old friend they grew up in, but soon forgot it while basking in the luxury of the new leather.

    Now if someone can help me find a good lease for the new van. The dealer gave me a couple of days to come up with my own financing. To bondguy, I think that your Chrysler lease is not all that shabby compared to what I was quoted for a lease. My dealer talked up a Wells Fargo lease (same as the one I had on the 98 GC) but with monthly payment of $658 (tax included) on a 3 yr lease with 15K miles/year. The residual was $17,195 on this vehicle which had an adjusted capitalized cost of $34,068 (this includes license, fees, and the $2600 rebate that Chrysler is giving on leases). Yes, as of yesterday, Chrysler is giving $2600 rebate on leases, but only $1000 on purchases. Anyway, I don't think the lease offered was all that good, and I would appreciate references to banks that will give me a better lease.
  • Thanks a lot for the valuable info on this vehicle.

    Re: your lease, I think some of the rate changes they introduced rcently in Canada were applicable to the US market as well. In here, the residual of GC ES FWD was brought down to 44% (from 47%) in early January. But the good news was they reduced the lease rate at the same time to 5.5% (from 6%). I heard today they slashed it again to 4.8%.

    Other than this info, I know, I can't be of much help to you living outside of the US... sorry!

    Enjoy your van - I'm certain you will just as you did with your '98!

    Thanks again.
  • cary28cary28 Posts: 53
    Can anyone provide some information on the 3.5L engine option?

    1. The press said Mar for availability. Can anyone confirm this, and has anyone ordered one with this option?
    2. I notice that HP, torque, and RPM went up a bit, but gas mileage suffers by 1 mile. Any detailed info would be helpful.
    3. Will this new engine come with a new transmission? If so, is it the same setup as the LHS & 300M? I am concerned about the 4sp as it had lots of complaints after 60K miles.
    4. When will dealers start to take orders for this engine? Is it an automatic upgrade on the Ltd model, or do you have to specify this engine?

    I am considering the Ltd, and don't know if I should wait for the new 3.5L. I understand the 3.8L is very smooth and powerful, but the 3.5L is newer technology with more potential. Any insights or information would be appreciated.
  • I don't know about the real performance of the new engine but I am sure you will get a even better deals on those 3.8L vans once the 3.5L is avaliable. If you are not in a hurry to buy the van, I would wait and see.
  • jfz219jfz219 Posts: 63
    Now have about 9000 on a 2001 Limited. Van was delivered in 8-2000. The noise that is described on this site is totally absent on this van. This is the quietest van that I have ever driven.
    Recommendation: not all samples have the problem. I suspect that if the van didn't exhibit the problem from the start, it would not present the problem hence. If you like the ride, luxury features, and price, then test one. If it is as quiet as mine, buy it and enjoy it.
  • With all of the postings on the 2100 rpm noise, I'm surprised that there have been so few
    thoughts on what its source may be. Being of an engineering nature, and being most interested
    in buying a TC, the following questions are bouncing around in my head:
    Can any vestige of the noise be heard at 2100 rpm and 0 mph?
    What tires are on TCs, both with and without the noise?
    Is there any evidence that can rule out some relationship to the radiator cooling fan? For example, can the noise be invoked when the engine is cold?
    Is the noise present both with and without the third seat (or cargo) being present? (Floor pan resonance)
    What measures, if any, have dealers taken that have made any change in the noise?

    If more people who post these very interesting noise reports would address some of these questions, we might be able to make some actual progress in narrowing down the possibilities.

    Thanks and good wishes to all TC owners!
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295

    "With all of the postings on the 2100 rpm noise, I'm surprised that there have been so few thoughts on what its source may be?"

    That's because this is Edmunds and not a site where they post thoughts on solutions.

    But, here's a hint:

  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Well that was a great idea. Extremely constructive.

    Okay let me try and describe it to you.

    1) It does not happen in idle. I have tried to put the van in gear with the brake on and accelerate to 2100 RPMs but I can't seem to get the RPM up that high.

    2) It is not so much a noise as it is a vibration. Like the vibration you would feel on a motorcycle but you feel this on on your gas pedal and occassionally in the mid seats if the driver can maintain the RPMs at the point where it vibrates.

    3) It is not connected to the fan motor... it happens all the time. Although I seem to feel it more when the van is cold. Winter in Toronto.

    4) I think it is connected with the Transmission or engine. However the engine must be under load for you to notice it. Idling at 2100 doesn't produce it. It happens at the low end of each gear. More noticeable at gear 1 going up hill and on the highway.

    5) I had my spare tire squared as per a previous suggestion. The exhaust is not touching the body anywhere and all the exhaust clips are accounted for.

    6) I have noticed what sounds like an odd exhaust sound that happens when I start the car in the morning in temperatures less than 0 C or 32 F. It is difficult to describe this sound but it sound like it is coming from the exhaust. It may be a slight leak in the exhaust... hmmm....

    7) It is not a noise like described by some others. It is a low frequency hummmm with a vibration attached to it. Once you find it and notice it, it becomes very annoying.

    Thanks for lending a helping hand. My email is [email protected]
    I will come to the board often to see your thoughts on the matter.

  • abealiabeali Posts: 13
    I find your remark rude and without class ...

    "Thoughtfull" people such as yourself should not be wasting time on this forum with "thoughtless" people like us. You should start your own forum ... " For arrogant people only" would be an appropriate name ... What a laugh - and a sad existence!
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    FWIW, here are my answers to your questions (2001 GC ES AWD with trailer towing pkg):

    a) No, there is no 'vestige' at 0 mph. In other words, revving the engine to 2100 at standstill in neutral does not produce the resonance. To the contrary, you have to put some load on the engine to make it resonate, such as by pulling up a hill, even a fairly slight hill.

    b) Same results with stock tires and snow tires (latter: Michelin Artic Alpin);

    c)Engine cold or hot makes no difference;

    d)All seats in or all removable seats out makes no difference;

    e) In my case, my dealer found that my spare tire was against the exhaust system. When he corrected that, it reduces but did not eliminate the noise. I don't (yet) have other experience about what dealers will do when pressed.

    To reiterate an earlier post, to get a better handle on the situation, I test drove a GC ES FWD over a 'test course' consisting of a hill and then a GC ES AWD over the same course immediatly afterwards, specifically trying to reproduce the problem. I convinced myself that the problem is unique to the AWD, 'though I acknowledge my sample size is small. Some FWD subscribers here also report noise issues, but it's hard to say whether we'll all talking about the same thing.

    Those are my observations. Now for my speculations.

    a) Since you're an engineering-type, you'll appreciate my opinion that this 'noise' is a resonance, some kind of harmonic thing; It is sharply 'tuned' to 2100 RPM +/-.

    b) Because I'm specifically listening for it, I think that the 3.8L/powertrain combo in all these vehicles (FWD and AWD) has a natural frequency of the equivalent of 2100 RPM or so.

    c) That said, there is obviously more metal to move around in the AWD powertrain, and I think that exacerbates the problem such that it becomes annoying (at least to some) rather than unnoticeable.

    d) I believe this is a design issue, not an assembly issue. Other posts to the contrary, I believe the noise doesn't vary from one AWD vehicle to another as much as the tolerance to it of the individual owners varies.

    e) I originally said here that I thought it was either an intake manifold or exhaust system problem. I'm now leaning strongly toward the latter, partly based on my experience with the effect of the spare tire thing.

    f) As far as DC fixing the problem is concerned, the way it seems to work is that every individual dealer's shop struggles to address their complaining customer's problem. If unsuccessful, they have the option of calling for help. In my opinion, only when enough complaints percolate up from the service departments will engineering get involved. They will need to become convinced that it's a universal problem and/or that it is hurting sales (which from what I read, DC could use more of). (BTW, I also have reported this issue to DC Customer Service, as an earlier poster suggested. They claimed not to have heard of it before.)

    Because of the confusion in the minds of some prospective buyers, here is my suggestion if you are considering the AWD. Test drive one by going up a hill at a steady 2100 RPM and listening. The problem is 100% reproducible. You will quickly determine whether this is an issue for you (it may or may not be).

    Finally, to put things in perspective it's time for me to make one more thing clear. I'm thrilled with this vehicle, overall. It has far exceeded my expectations for fit, finish, amenities, comfort, power, handling, even overall quietness (the resonance not withstanding). If you look at reviews of the 1996-2000 model and note their complaints (e.g. poor headlights, marginal power, heavy rear seat, etc.) you will see that most if not all the issues have been addressed.

    I've now had a chance to put the AWD to the test with a nasty drive over Mt. Hood (Government Camp) OR in a blizzard. At least with my Michelin Artic Alpins, both the ability to accelerate and brake on snow was superb -- I was really impressed.

    I apologive for the long-winded post. Hope it's helpful to some.

  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    Immediately after I posted my long winded answer to larrysher above, I found the post from pgs28. The point I wish to make is that you'll find these reports/answers very similar -- and neither of us had read the other's post before constructing them.

    I'd like to add my observation that it doesn't seem to make any difference what gear you are turning 2100 RPM in, or at what road speed. Except that in OD, it is less noticeable because at 65MPH or so, there is additonal wind and road noise that tends to mask it.

    On another note, I appreciate those in this forum who communicate in a positive vein and on-topic.

  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Rolfe.. eloquently put. You are dead on. Just one additional note. I have a 2001 T&C FWD so although you're idea that it is potentially only evident in the AWD is incorrect. However, you may be right in terms of the serverity due to the additional metal bulk required for AWD.

    Maybe you could post the phone number you called so others could follow suite.

    I kind of thing it may be some kind of resonance from the exhaust but it has a long way to travel to the accelerator pedal.

    I went to the website noted in one of the posts and I certainly agree with the observation. However the T & C is not a sports car. I expect the acceleration to be smooth on the pedal and reasonably quiet.

  • scannerscanner Posts: 295

    Thank you. I agree with your message, but I didn't mean to imply that people are "thoughtless". Think of it as a means of motivation. Sometimes it's just better to let people figure things out for themselves. For example, I'm pretty sure Honda owners wouldn't like it if I came over in their topic and informed them the power doors on their Odyssey were engineered by General Motors.



    Can I assume you appreciated the info that I emailed you? How about a little credit if you're going to repost my stuff? ;-)

  • cary28cary28 Posts: 53
    I talked to both Sharon & Keith and they were willing to offer $4600 off MSRP, on top of the $1K factory rebate. It is an attractive deal, but they have limited color selection. My wife likes the Champagne color, while I am leaning toward the Patriot Blue or Silver. Who knows, they may even give me a decent trade-in for my wife's 98 Accord EX-V6.

    With the arrival of the EX trim, I wonder if Chrysler will adjust the MSRP of both the LXi and Limited, since these are our of line. And if so, when and to what extent?

    I hear that perhaps the supply for Odys may get closer to demand, so availability may improve, and may even affect selling price. However, there is no easy way to upgrade the Ody to come close to the luxury of the T&C, and I also see from Edmunds postings on problems for the Ody as well.

    I thought buying a Minivan would be easy, but this is getting to be a tought choice! Any wise insights???
  • I spent the last hour back at my dealer talking with their service reps. Here are the additional facts those of you with 2001 T&C AWDs may be interested in:

    - The dealer has 4 customers with these vans - all complaining. They have 2 which their staff use as demos and several more on the lot. All exhibit this noise.

    - We test drove my van, then test drove another off the lot - the noise is the same. Talked to the driver of the one demonstrator, he experiences the same noise.

    - Contrary to a previous comment I made, now that I have sampled more vans and talked to the person at the dealership who has driven every 2001 AWD they've received, the noise isn't much different from van to van.

    - They have not had any FWD customer come in with this complaint.

    - Temperature doesn't seem to matter.

    - This dealer was directed by Chrysler to completely drop, check, and re-align the exhaust system on one of the vans - no change. Another neighboring Minnesota dealer was directed to take the torque tube (drive shaft) to the rear axle off and see if the noise went away - no change. Attention is now focusing on the engine mounts.

    For those of you who read rolfe2's post above, he is 100% on target regarding the type of test drive a prospective buyer should take. The noise is evident in any gear (but not neutral) at 2100-2300 RPM but the load put on the engine at highway speeds with the torque lock-up engaged really gets it vibrating/resonating. My dealer tech called it a droning vibration... an apt description. You may have to drive several miles before the torque lock-up will engage. You should be at 60-65 mph at the 2100 - 2300 RPM range.

    I also agree with Rolfe2 that all other attributes of the van are great. If you choose to buy one, please be sure you do a very thorough test drive and can accept the noise. Speaking from experience, it is a very bad feeling to be surprised by this after taking delivery. My mistake was taking a long test drive on a snowy Minnesota day - of course you don't get much over 40-45MPH on snow covered roads and you keep a light foot on the gas.

    My dealer still does not have an official answer on what action (if any) Chrysler intends to take.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    pgs28 --
    Thanks for pointing out that you have FWD! I missed that. Interesting...

    I should add that I can also feel the vibration in the accelerator pedal -- but I have to be looking for it to notice it. It's no big deal, in my case.

    Here's the info you need to call DC that I found somewhere on the web. This is the number I called. (edited later: Have your VIN ready.)

    Call 1-800-992-1997 (1-800-465-2001 from Canada)
    Listen to the automated operator then press 2. (To continue.)
    Hold for the next available agent. DO NOT ENTER A FOUR DIGIT EXTENSION! WAIT ON THE LINE AND MAKE NO SELECTIONS. The line will sound dead and you'll think you screwed up. You DIDN'T! WAIT!
    When Prompted press 1. (you are a customer.)
    When Prompted press 3. (customer service issues.)
    Press 3 Again. (customer service issues.)
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