BMW 5-Series Sedans

richkantor · October 2001

To all:

I am just about to order a 2002 BMW 530i and I think I found a great deal. I live in NYC, but have been dealing with various dealers in NJ who seem to be more competitive and NJ dealers allow you to participate in a multiple security deposit program which really lowers the money factor and brings down your lease payments. I am going to lease the car for 36 months, 12,000 miles per year. The car comes with steptronic transmission, cold weather package, premium package, xenon headlights, Hi-Fi radio system, heated steering wheel. The cap cost of the car is $44.386, the invoice of the car is $42,410 and the MSRP is $47,120. The residual value is 62% with a money factor of .00265. However, I am prepaying 10 payments as a security deposit which lowers my money factor to .00175 and the deposit is returned to me at the end of the lease. This saves you about 12% on your your payments on your lease. It's like loaning BMW the money so your payments go down by 12% and you get the principal back at the end of the lease. The final numbers are $570 per month, $8,743.50 due at inception, this includes $6,000 as a refundable security deposit (mentioned above), $570 1st payment, $525 bank fee, $225 DMV fee, $148.50 tax on cap cost reduction, $1,275 additional down payment. Out of the $8,743.50, I get $6,000 back and the 1st payment is paid. I am really only putting down out of pocket $2,173.50 which I will not benefit with exception of reducing my cap cost. I first read about BMW dealers being rude and non-caring, however, I have actually had a good experience so far. I have dealt with seven different dealers all over NJ and to my surprise they are all trying to beat each other with the lowest deal and they have been very friendly to me.If anyone has a 2002 530 already please let em know if it is worth it to get the navagation system and the six cd changer for an additional $18 per month and $700 upfront. Also, is it necessary to get the radio upgrade. I can replace the radio with the navagation system and cd changer for the same price. Is it better to have all three options, or just the upgrade radio or have the GPS and cd changer without the upgraded radio? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has any questions regarding my lease deal please let me know.
Thanks. Richard

bgkanne · October 2001

Is everyone aware that the 5 series will be replaced by a all new version within a year? It's biggest improvements are expected to be rear seat room and improving the logic of some dash board controls. In addition the E class will also be replaced very shortly and will be a far more attractive (less bland) S car design with improvements all over the place, of course. The new E has been photographed undisguised and I am sure prototypes of the new 5 series are out there as well. At this point the current models of both of these cars should be leased rather than purchased.

john01 · October 2001

Good point, which I also considered, and I am reasonably sure that most people on this board have done enough research to know that there is a new model coming soon. But from what I have seen and heard about the new C class' numerous, and some serious problems, I am not so sure I would buy a first year model E-class, or any car in its first year production. E-class should have the new model out in the street by next spring or summer, I would think, but the 5 would probably be late 2002 or early 2003. Frankly, I like the current model design and if the new 7 is any indication, I would prefer the "old" one. The rear end and the interior just don't do it for me. It reminds me too much of those GM designs from the 80's

So we are going to the dealer to place an order on the 530i this Friday, after driving the E class and the 5. E class definitely has more romm and 5 actually has less leg room in the rear (by hair) than the 3 series, but it just is so nice!

habitat1 · October 2001

..from the couple of photos I saw awhile back on the new 5, I think the current one is sharper looking, especially from the back. While I'm sure that BMW could improve the 5 series in some ways (i.e. the new 7's 4.4 liter is both more powerful and more fuel efficient), the exterior styling of the current 5 invokes the rule: "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

Congratulations on your upcoming order of a 530i.

cloudy1 · October 2001

Took delivery of my 2002 530i last week. For those of you looking at the Toledo blue paint sample at a dealer the color is actually much lighter than the sample, but still a great color.

I got the standard stereo system and have noticed that the speakers sound scratchy/tinny on AM stations. Seem to be OK on FM and CD's. Anyone experience this on earlier BMW's?

Also the rain-sensing wipers seem to have a mind of their own as to when they turn on and off. Definitely not in sync with the conditions. The intermittent feature seems to be only one speed. I read and re-read the owners manual and I believe I am operating these features correctly. Any comments or do I just take it back for service?

shipo · October 2001

I have the intermittent wipers on my 1999 328i and when I first got the car, I thought the same as you, "A mind of their own". I have since grown accustom to their operation and they are actually quite predictable on their own sort of way. On the 3-Series, the sensitivity control does actually work, although from one setting to the next it is hard to tell. If you set the wipers to the lowest setting and then to the highest setting you should be able to notice a difference.

Best Regards,
Shipo

maxbuster · October 2001

Bad AM reception is a problem with some 530's including mine. Dealers and BMWNA are aware of the issue but seem unable to resolve it. My car is in shop today for that issue (2nd time) - I am not holding my breath on any improvement. More posts at www.bimmer.org.

rlchapin · October 2001

I need some help settling a debate I am having with a fellow 5 owner (i have a 97' 540, he has an '01 525). He is heading into his first winter with the car and is determined to put snow's on his car. I have never put snow's on my car. I have never even thought about it. I think the car handle's "fine", yes my frontwheel drive '94 maxima handled better, but for the 1/2 dozen days snow is really an issue here in CT it doesn't seem worth it. Any comments would be appreciated. Bob.

bgkanne · October 2001

I wouldn't buy the first year of any vehicle. It only makes sense to lease when you don't know what problems will occur in early model production. I hope BMW doesn't make the styling mistakes it has on the new 7 series on the new 5 series, but regardless, you can be sure it will be a better product that doesn't need a whole lot of improvement.

shipo · October 2001

RLChapin,

I agree, I live just west of you in Bergen County, NJ and for the handful of heavy snow days over the last three winters since I got my 328i, I have not even bothered even thinking about snow tires. Of course, in marginal conditions, we just take our Caravan, it works pretty well in heavy snow.

BGKanne,

Maybe I just got lucky, however, I have an E46 328i that was built in December 1998, which places it in the first couple of months production for that car. So far (touch wood), I have had to replace two $2.00 taillight bulbs, thats it. My lease is up next spring and I may extend it a little so as to be able to have a better look at the next generation 5-Series.

Best Regards,
Shipo

john01 · October 2001

I think you are correct in that most products do get better with the new iteration, but then there are those that seem to escape that norm. Case in point, while doing research on the E class, I hear so many people commenting on the previous body style (w124, pre 94 model) and even the one before were built like tanks. In contrast, the new ones seem to be more fragile, and not as of high quality. Same story on the C class, where the old one was regarded as the best effort by MB, the new one seems to be heading the other way. BMW seems to actually get better with each successive model, if not by much. But the market pressure from the Japanese definitely shows on either make. They have to cut cost somewhere and sometimes it is painfully obvious and the consumers have to live with it.

I have no doubt that the new models (E or 5) will be technically superior products, but better product in terms of quality? I hope so, but that is to be seen, and I am sure they will be busy with the "new and improved design" of the new model before the very first example hits the show room.

Just my 2 cents.

merc1 · October 2001

This is so very, very true, with Mercedes. The previous S and E Class cars were the high-point of Mercedes-Benz's sedan building know how, when it came to the fittings and structure of the car. The W124 will probably always be my favorite Mercedes platform. It came in Coupe, Sedan, Convertible and Wagon bodystyles. I guess they'll be no more true middle class coupes from Mercedes since they're all based on the C-Class chassis from here on out. W124 cars don't look anywhere their age today, and the "newest" would be already 6 years old. Same for the W140. Tanks indeed. BMW on the other hand seems to have their cost cutting act down much better, or at least you don't notice it as quickly as you do on the newer Mercedes. And with the 7-Series BMW seems to be making the car more lavish than before. Audi's sedan interiors shame Mercedes' sedans interiors, only the current SL is built to that old-school standard. Squeaks, rattles and most of all body flex was NEVER part of the dialouge when discussing a Benz, but sadly it is now sometimes mentioned..really distressing for a Benz fan.

M

habitat1 · October 2001

I generally agree with your assessment of Mercedes; however, I do want to give Mercedes credit where it is due.

I personally think the interior of the CLK is exceptional. I just stopped by the dealer yesterday to have him "tease" me with a CLK55. Lots of reasons why I wouldn't buy the car: the $70k price tag, lack of a six-speed and dated chassis...but the interior layout is, IMHO, the most attractive I have seen in any sport coupe. It looks like a "sculpted" cockpit, not a separate dash attached to a center console attached to the armrest. I wish BMW would take some interior styling cues from this particular Mercedes - at least with the M3. For all the reasons my next car is likely to be a 3 or 5 series, the interior is not one of them.

Just my two cents.

merckx · October 2001

I agree-imagine a coupe based on the current Merc E-class. The front end I've always thought exceedingly pretty-I still enjoy seeing them on the road in their 7th year. But the back has always seemed bloated. But with a svelt coupe roofline...

merc1 · October 2001

I give them credit where it's due too. Early reports indicate that the new SL is made the "old" Benz way as far as it's interior is concerned. I hope this is true. I agree about the CLK, it's been a real winner for Mercedes every since it's introduction. I like it's interior too.

merckx,

I too thought the CLK was a little heavy around the c-pillar at first, but that notion went away after about a month of seeing them on the road. However the next CLK (still C-Class based) will be styled to resemble a smaller version of the CL coupe.

M

new2saab2 · October 2001

These are the cars I'm trying to decide between. The Saabs are especially attractive right now because they are ofering 0% financing.

Any pros/cons for either car?

parnola · October 2001

The Saabs tend to have poorer reliability than the BMWs. Since you are financing rather than leasing, I assume you will be keeping the car for a while.

dhanley · October 2001

Well...

The areo will most likely be faster in a line than the 525--It's got 230 hp vs 189 hp, and an even bigger torque advantage. It's a bit bigger, and will likely have more features per dollar.

The 525 will probably handle better, be quieter and smoother over bumps, be more reliable, and have better overall quality.

If you want to lease, and can get a sweet lease deal on the areo, that might be the way to go. I have both a saab and a BMW, and the out of warranty saab is making me nervous. If you want to keep the car for a long time, i'd pick the BMW. In the end only you can decide what car you like, though.

dave

indylowflyer · October 2001

For a little extra, get the 530. It is worth the added cost.

abyoung · October 2001

I am closing in on the decision to purchase a 2002 530i and wonder what is the range of opinion on automatic versus manual around here. I've read some posts of ~100k steptronic failures, and a few posts from buyers wishing they had bought manual. I originaly was set on automatic (being in the 35-40, two kids, demographic) but have let this board introduce the notion of buying manual.

Of course this is a personal choice, like color, so let's hear it, and why. I imagine the driving enthusiasts (maunal advocates) are in the majority on this board, so those voting steptronic may have to shout to be heard.

Cheers, Andy

gearman · October 2001

I suggest that you consider a couple of issues: Who will be driving the car and under what conditions will the car be typically driven.

On the first point, If there will more than one frequent driver, you may wish to seek concurrence rather than grudging acceptance of your choice. If you both agree, or you're the only driver, then that's obviously easier.

On the second point, I generally prefer & recommend the manual transmission if you are planning to be usually driving in a non-urban area and are not going to be towing. Since towing is frowned upon by BMW/NA, that's a non issue. BMW's I-6 is famed for its smoothness, and the variable valve timing provides for useful power over a very wide rev range. There are few sedans as delightful as a 530 on highway one, and the manual would be the preferred choice for me in that context. the manual box in the 5 series is a delight, and the clutch is progressive.

However, If you're probably going to be faced with a lot of stop & go / bumper staring driving in a heavily urbanized area day after day after day after day, etc, , then I'd vote for the auto box. Unlike the frequently recalled ZF auto-box used in the V engined cars, the I-6 cars use an excellent "Turbo Hydro" (i.e, TH in bmw-speak) unit built by GM in France and used in several cars (among them being - in 4 speed form- the Opel Omega MV6 / Cadillac Catera / Vauxhall Omega. etc. and in 5 speed form the 2003 Cadillac CTS). That unit functions superbly, but suffers from the problem of limited U.S. vehicle application, so high-mileage maintainence repairs must be performed at either a bmw or cadillac dealer (that means high expense for a rebuild). The independent shops are generally not able to perform rebuilds on those units. That issue may be academic if you plan to keep the car for less that 120k / 150k miles or plan to have the trans fluid changed every 25k miles in spite of the manfacturer's statements that the units are 'sealed for life' and other such noise.

In the event that you live witin the northern part of the city of San Francisco, then it's a no brainer: get the auto-box. Stop & go traffic combined with the joys of lombard street or Jones street make that an easy choice. If you live in Carmel or Stinson Beach, and commute from the city, get the manual.

Conclusion: pros and cons to both choices, but your driving conditions may be a deciding factor for you.

habitat1 · October 2001

I'm in the 40-45, two kids demographic and live in (not near) DC. Besides the fact that my wife would divorce me if I got an automatic BMW, I think the performance of a 530i 5-speed is considerably above the 530i automatic. Especially if you add the sport package to it. I strongly suggest you drive both cars extensively to make sure you pick the one that suits you. I have never found the slight incovenience of a manual in stop and go traffic to pursuade me to give up the performance benefits and enjoyment factor.

john01 · October 2001

I too lived and will be going back to DC area where the traffic is, well, not so good. I am currently living in Berlin where the traffic is, again not so good, and the city speed limit is either 30km/h or 50km/h, less than 20 and 35mph.
I test drove the 530 with step because that is all they had at the dealer, but it was actually pretty good. In comparison to the E class unit, it was quicker, at least to me. However I still like the 5spd, and my wife who will be driving the car more than me wants to buy it and learn (on my 95 Acura). I have only driven manuals for about 7 years, but as good as BMW step was, I still feel that it is slower than the manual.

As for the durability, from what I have found out, it seems that the failures are consistent whether it is ZF or GM made units. And the sealed design makes it difficult to change the fluid, and it will cost around $500, but that doesn't seem to really give you that much more for the money. I keep my cars for more than 5 years, and typically put in about 150,000 miles before I replace it, so long term durability was a definite factor. If the steptronics did have bullet proof reliability, I would probably buy that for my wife, but if I were driving more, then still 5spd.

john01 · October 2001

Well, just signed our names, and it is scheduled for delivery in January. Still debating whether to put in sports seat with lumbar support (sales guy here says it can be done, although the spec sheet says no) or to order the comfort seat. I am also considering special ordering the comfort seat from the 7 series that also has the thigh support. I thought I was done with making decisions on this car thing when we signed the papers. any advice from 7 and 5 owners welcomed on the seat selection. I do suffer from lower back pain. Thanks.

dantlo · October 2001

I was in the same shoe 3 years ago choosing over 528i and 9-5 4turbo(no aero yet back then). We then leased the 528i sports pkg. No regret what so ever. The BMW might have less hp, but the extra hp on the Saab does not give you the feeling and thrill as you would in a 5 series. I am sure the leasing or 0% are very tempting. I almost leased a wagon 2 mths ago. But went with a Volvo V70, sometimes the extra 20 or 40 dollars a month payment is worth it.

Dan

mdstat · October 2001

Just got my left over 01, 525. 2k off Market in DC area. Me too agonized bout manual vs automatic. Finally went with manual. No regrets . Smooth clutch. No pain despite hatefull I-66 traffic. Was little dissapointed with audio system. Problem resolved. got it upgraded with a
MTX sub and 450 wts amp for < $ 900. Muck less than the 1200 for BWM sound systemt upgrade and much more power. Circuit City did a great job, no even need to dismantle the dash . All pre wires were ready in the trunk. Am I happy? Hell yes.

merckx · October 2001

I almost bought one last spring-the stick makes it an incredible car. Really sweet clutch/shift action.

indylowflyer · October 2001

I have had my 6-speed 540i for 6 months and am glad I chose the manual over the auto. The biggest surprise was the sport suspension. I highly reccommend this option.

shipo · October 2001

I have been driving a 1999 328i 5-Speed for almost three years now in NYC metro area traffic and have not regretted the manual at all. Given how light and smooth the clutch is and how easy the car is to shift, heavy rush hour traffic is no more difficult than when driving our mini-van with an automatic.

Having said that, there is one problem with the manual that is very difficult. When driving in heavy stop and go traffic, given how quiet and smooth these cars are, if you have the stereo too loud you cannot hear or feel the engine to know when to shift. When I first got my car, I was listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan on the CD one day while in heavy traffic and I was jerking the car around like I was driving a stick shift for the first time. Very embarrassing!

Best Regards,
Shipo

g_car · October 2001

We went back and forth several times before going with the '01 525i Step/w Sport. Our other two cars are both manual and since my wife was going to be the primary driver and esp. since in the Wilmington DE area traffic is a real pain decided to go with the Step. Happy with the decision so far. We were also looking at a 330i Sport if we had gone that way would have went with the stick. Wife's comment auto fits the character of the 5er, stick fits the image of the 3. BTW great article in latest Bimmer mag on the SMGII transmission in the M3, would love to try that puppy out. Also just test drove the new Audi A4 3.0 6 speed, very sweet and the salesperson let me drool on the Porsches.

jls21 · October 2001

I have been researching Winter Tires for my 2001 530i and wonder if anyone has an opinion. My BMW dealer would like to sell me a set of Continentals. All of my other research is pointing to Michelin Pilot Alpins. I'm looking for advice from people who have actually used winter tires on their 5 series. Which tires and what is the level of satisfaction. Thanks.

cmr530i · October 2001

I've stalled my 5 speed a few times too with the music up loud! A bit embarrassing!
I hate to admit it, but I have twice thrown the gear into reverse instead of first. Luckily I felt it right away. Has anyone else done this? I drove a 5 speed Maxima for 11 years with the reverse gear in the right and down position. It takes some getting used to.

div2 · October 2001

I put Artic Alpins on my wife's 3er and they rode and handled better than the OEM all-season Contis. Plus, they were excellent in ice and snow. I would expect the Pilots to be even better. Our new 5er is getting a set of Artic Alpins from Tire Rack. IMHO, Contis are good for tire swings and not much else.

shipo · October 2001

Yeah, I have hit reverse a couple of times as well. This is my ninth car with a manual gearbox over a 23 year period, and the only one that I ever hit reverse on accidentally. The other cars that I have had that had reverse "left and up" had some sort of a lock out mechanism to prevent accidental engagement.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sanand5 · October 2001

I took delivery of a 2001 530i (titanium silver, black leather, Steptronic, Sport-Premium, Xenon). Got it for $2000 over invoice plus a pretty decent trade for my '98 328i. I loved my old 328 but I have to say that everything about this new car is better. It is more powerful, much quieter, very solid, and has a lot of little extras like "one-touch" on all windows and moonroof, better A/C, auto-dimming mirrors, and on and on. The only thing that I'm not sure about is the Steptronic transmission. My old transmission shifted much faster and after reading this board it seems was probably more reliable.

Overall, I am extremely happy about my decision. In fact, I now can confidently state that it is unlikely I will buy anything other than BMW in the future.

gerry18 · October 2001

After much thought we finally ordered a 530i auto last Saturday ("family sedan", stop & go driving, and plan to keep 'till shifting goes from fun to chore), although we have been a predominantly manual trans family sense '72 (4 to 1). Got our first exposure to up and left for reverse in our '85 Merkur XR4Ti. It seemed a bit unusual at first, but don't recall any major wrong-gear issues. Also seemed to make safety sense when I thought about it in terms of gear mistakes from a standing start vs. while moving. The pattern felt perfectly natural by the time we bought our replacement oversized stuff mover - 318Ti. Right now I can't even remember where R is on the "normal" US/Asian 5 speed H pattern.

steven36 · October 2001

I live in So CA. I've been quoted $1000 off MSRP for an '02 530 w/ steptronic trans and Prem. Pkg. and Xenon lights.

cheeks · October 2001

Has anyone notice how loud the auxiliary fan is? It seems like it comes on and off in different intervals. I never noticed it until I had my fan replaced due to the recall. I would really appreciate some feedback. The dealer has told me that he has heard this from other owners.

michaelg5 · October 2001

I put a set of Michelin Pilot Alpins on my 2000 528. They in fact handle better than the original Continentals and only slightly louder. Most importantly, I felt confident in just about every weather situation. They are also H rated so that if the urge ever overtakes you, your good up to 130 m.p.h. My recollection is the Arctic Alpin is rated to 99 m.p. Hope this helps. Also to the person who had a concern about seats, I have the seat that comes with the premium package(not the sport seat), and it is definitely the most comfortable seat I have ever owned. Also have lower back problems.

cmr530i · October 2001

I had my fan replaced about three weeks ago and don't notice any noise. When do you hear it? From inside the car with windows up/down or from the outside?

cheeks · October 2001

I hear the fan come on (and turn off)frequently when I'm driving. I have heard from a few other BMW owners (bimmer.org)that they are finding the same thing after having the new fan installed.

taylort · October 2001

I want to upgrade my cars sound system. Any recommendations? I have a 2001 530 with the base sound system (plus in-dash CD)

I saw one entry where someone added a sub and amp from Circuit City. What Circuit City location did you go to in WMA?
How easy is it to do this. I took my old car, Acura, to a circuit city to get new rear speakers and it took me 3 trips before they got it right.

On the Auto Vs Manual Trans - I to live in the Washington DC area (Gaithersburg). I have the Auto trans. This is the first automatic that I have owned in 18 years. Auto Vs Manual is a personal choice that's different from everyone. I just got tired of the traffic and having manual trans as well.(and I have had some very smooth Manual trans) Traffic only moves a few feet at a time on beltway at times. They are fun to drive when you can really drive. At times I miss the feel on the manual trans but when I am in traffic I am glad to have the Auto Don't be fool by the BMW steptronic Auto trans - it is no real comparison to a manual trans and does not give you any where near the excitement of one.

cmr530i · October 2001

I was in my car most of the day today and listened for the fan , but I didn't hear that loud noise. Hope you are able to resolve this issue. I did hear that there was a recall on the first group of aux fans that were installed during the first round of recalls. Could you have one of these? Can you believe it? A recall on a recall!

chrism123 · October 2001

I would like to hear the opinion from 5-series owners who have purchased the sport package vs. the standard tire/suspension setup.

I have ordered an 02 530i w/ steptronic and w/o the sport package. I am wondering how much do I lose (handling) by not having the sport package. The dealer did not have a (sport) demo, therefore I could not compare the two models.

The cost adder is $2300 for 02 530i's.

chesdin4 · October 2001

I've had the same issue as a couple of you have mentioned with shifting (actually, starting from a standstill) my '01 530. The engine is so smooth and quiet that if the stereo's blasting, I'm not smooth at all. I tend to race the engine too much and then lurch when starting.

My other 5-speed is a Miata, and I never realized how much I rely on engine noise (it has plenty) to smoothly balance adding gas with engaging the clutch!

cmr530i · October 2001

I have the premium sport package on my '01 530i and absolutely find it crucial to my car's performance. It handles tight curves effortlessly at high speeds and gives the driver a complete sense of control. No rolling action at all. I did not test drive the standard suspension as I knew going in what I wanted from this car...total performance. I have also found it to be a very smooth ride even on rougher roads.

joeb63 · October 2001

I just bought a 540i Automatic with the Sport Package and 17" M-Sport Wheels. I'd like to know what the tire pressure readings should optimally be. I looked in the door at the sticker, but it wasn't really clear. The front tires are obviously different than the rear, so I assume the pressure should be different as well.

I feel that the ride is a bit rough. On all but the most newly paved roads, I pretty much feel every road imperfection and texture as I drive. Perhaps I have too much air in the tires.

Also note that I have only 350 miles on the car, will the ride get smoother as the car breaks in?

Thanks in advance for the advice.
Joe

shipo · October 2001

Hi Joe,

You did not mention in your post whether you actually checked your tire pressure in all of your tires. When picking up a new car that has been transported, it is important to check the pressure because prior to transport, the tires are filled to a very high pressure to prevent bouncing. When I took delivery of my car, my dealer forgot to let some of the air out, and I had a very hard and twitchy ride until I got it sorted out.

Best Regards,
Shipo

joeb63 · October 2001

Shipo,

The front tires were at 36.5 and the rear were at 40.5. I brought the front down to 35.5 and the rear down to 40, but that didn't make a noticable difference.

That's exactly why I'm asking.
Thanks!

shipo · October 2001

I do not have a 5-Series, however, those numbers sound WAY high. My 1999 328i Owners Manual recommends 29 front and 33 rear for all driving conditions with less than 5 adult passengers AND luggage. Given that we will most likely NEVER have 5 adults in our cars for anything more than a quick trip to lunch, those are the numbers I use. Note: if you are going to autocross your car, the numbers should be more like 38-42 front and 36-38 rear.

I have no idea if the numbers for the 5-Series are even close to those of the 3-Series, so checking the Owners Manual will give you the definitive answer.

Best Regards,
Shipo

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