When I suggested a longer hood, I guess what I really would like to see is a longer car. The LS is a luxury car and I feel that the overall looks of the car should overshadow "form follows function" to some degree. In other words it should be stretched out like the cars that are its main competition - the S and 7 with longer wheel base. I personally like the look of the car but feel it could be better.
I am always setting the laser cruise control to the same speeds. How about some kind of memory or presets for these settings as well as the distance to the car ahead.I also like the idea of having the cruise always on as suggested in previous posts.
If you use the mode button on the steering column it cycles through all of the FM types. I only use FM 1 so a way to exclude the others would be nice.
Need a mute button on the steering column. Yes, you can set the bottom volume button to zero but it takes a while to ramp up again.
Agree that the cooling seats are not very effective.
I would like to see a better air distribution system. I don't like the cool air blowing directly at me. Also there is a fair amount of air noise (that wouldn't be noticeable if the car weren't so uncannily quiet). How about using the car's roof as a plenum chamber, with cool air quietly oozing out of the little holes in the ceiling?
bitkahuna, what are you going to do with all the replies you are getting? Are you going to compile them and forward them to Lexus?
It's nice to have the luxury of wishing. but as above states, ls430 does 99.9% of what a luxo car should and can do, limited by available technology. The attibute i would never change, which we take for granted----quality and reliability. i'd take that over a few gimmmicks anytime. make the darn thing work MB!!!! I have a few nitpicky things--but when i get in this car, or any friend gets in this car they are awe struck with its world class sense of everything luxo. I LOVE THIS CAR. improvements ok working with what is "of the car" quicker downshifts cruise control improvements.
the other things mentioned will be on my next lexus in 3 yrs when i trade out the lease. boy what to look forward to and you know if it's lexus IT WILL BE DONE RIGHT (listening MB ?)
I'm looking forward to an AWD ls430, improved NAV and more option groupings (maybe i'm glad i didn't get the custom package and deal with the lack of cooling seats hate to spend the $$$ for an option that doesn't really help that much.
HOW CLOSE TO PERFECTION FOR A 2001 MODEL YEAR CAR
= LS430 enuf said
GIVEN THE CHOICE TO DRIVE A CAR OR LIVE WITH A CAR DAY IN DAY OUT= LS430
I have a 430 with the Ultra package, with the 17" wheels and summer tires.
Improvements/corrections:
Ditto on:
"Ability to change destinations on the navigation system while driving." The system is inconsistent on this. You can go to a previous destination, but not a previously Marked Point. The car knows if there is a front seat passenger, so if there is, there should be no restriction on any input into the AV system.
"A hands free telephone system that would accept your phone or a phone and service company of your choice." Absolutely. Sprint, the system they say they are coming out with (much delayed) has terrible service is LA. I mean, terrible.
"More cooling power for the cooled front seats." Agreed. I hardly notice the effect, if any. Plus, the fans have a soft whine when turned up.
"Have the front seat slide rearward a few inches when the key is removed." Good idea.
"Modifying Route determination according to traffic patterns." Terrific idea. Probably requires some items outside of Lexus' direct control (like gather up and integrating traffic data, but they could set up a unit to do it, then sell the data to other auto makers, just like ON STAR provides service to other makers, just branded in that makers name).
"A/C Noise" Ditto. Yes, if the car was not so basically quiet, we would not notice, but I find the rear AC air flow surprisingly loud, considering that a larger vent, or perhaps two vents, might have reduced the noise, without great cost.
AC Zoning Scheme -- The "rear" AC is really the "rear, side" AC. Results in two different air streams, with two temperatures, being sent to the back.
There is a competition between rear seat temperature controller and the dash controls, that I do not understand.
Driver Seat Memory Setting -- You must put the car in park or neutral to save the driver seat memory settings. So, if you make these adjustments while driving, which is not uncommon, but forget to save them once you have stopped, your work is wasted. The Type S Jag lets you save whenever you wish.
Orange Peel -- the car has great paint, but the better the paint and clearcoat on a car, and the better you keep it polished, the more the orange peel shows. The cars show a lot of orange peel when kept polished and waxed. It would not seem that expensive (if done at the factory) to color sand the base coat to get rid of the orange peel then to apply the clear coat. There is a huge difference in appearance when you have no orange peel.
No Mute -- Bizzare
No Memory setting for front passenger seat.
I have owned an LS since day one of the line's creation, purchasing an 1990 LS brand new. I was knocked out by the car (and the service) and have been a fanatic Lexus customer.
I think a little less insistence on perfection went into the 2001 LS 430. Evidence: in and of itself, this is no big deal, but it is a symptom: they did not even bother to spell check the manual, which contains numerous spelling errors (as well as very poor writing in many places). As I said, this is not catastrophic, but it shows a sloppiness that is astonishing for a company I always thought of as "relentlessly pursuing excellence." I have had the car in the shop three times in the two months I have owned it, to correct problems that existed on delivery.
Overall, it IS a very good car, BUT, I think Lexus is slipping. Any doubts I had were erased by the manual errors and the phone situation, both of which were obvious problems and which should never have occurred and which could only have occurred if someone was asleep on the job. I have not thought of Lexus as being asleep on the job.
There you go again, talking about me and I haven't said a thing in here. I haven't "misrepresented" any "facts" in my past discussions with Lexus folk. Not a one. You don't have squat to back up a statement like that about me. So Pluh..ease.
I find I only use some of the trip computer display info on a regular basis (the ones that are cycled through using display 1)For example, I mainly use distance to empty and elapsed time. It would be useful for the user to be able to program the system to limit the display to certain items. I had a BMW 5 series in the late 80's and you could do that in that car. I would also like the ability to have the clock automatically reset to zero wit each trip as in the RX.
I agree with the air conditioning issues that have been brought up. I have owned every version of LS so far and have not noticed the uncomfortable blasts of cold air before. Pushing the vents towards the ceiling helps but causes a lot of wind noise with my Nokia car kit microphone mounted above. Interestingly if you push the vents towards the passenger side they will stay on that side in "moving vent" mode (even if there is no passenger) until the car is restarted.
To put all of this in perspective, the car is great but nothing is perfect. These are simply constructive suggestions to tweak an amazing product and make it even better.
"To put all of this in perspective, the car is great but nothing is perfect. These are simply constructive suggestions to tweak an amazing product and make it even better."
Couldn't have said it better! And most of the ideas so far shouldn't cost Lexus much to implement either.
Here's another idea... how about sensors that figure out if a driver is drifting out of their lane (I've seen experimental technology that can do this) or worse, off the road? It would have to distinguish that from changing lanes of course, but maybe it could deactivate if the turn signal is engaged in a reasonable amount of time before the lane shift! Would make people signal their intentions, anyway!!
And another one - work with the phone companies to make integrating one's personal cell phone into the car easier! It's crazy no manufacturer has done this yet (to my knowledgwe). Give me a phone slot/connector that makes the portable phone then work seamlessly with the nav/stereo and maybe steering wheel buttons and even voice activation.
These things make a car more convenient AND safer.
bitkahuna, there you go! Quite a list (especially from darbh - most all of which I concur with). But just to clarify my earlier post on this - nearly every one of these items has been previously suggested/discussed as an improvement or problem. I personally have listed the: mute button, poor phone integration, more voice/nav input with passenger present, cruise control improvements, cooling seats, no massage in front seat and some others that escape me just now. The a/c zoning issue is one I find curious as well and could have been handled much better. This laundry list can and should be continually updated, but since most of it already was discussed earlier, I personally didn't respond to your initial challenge to me - not because I had some false notion of Lexus perfection. And I agree, peace!
Even after I have filled up w/ gas my range only reads approx 300 miles when I know that 400 plus would be more accurate. It seems to be pretty accurate when my tank gets down to a 1/4 or less but before that it is off by @ least 50%.
Would like to hear from others if you are having similar experiences. Can this be corrected?
Add to the list of improvments vents in the sunroof shade ala MB. This way you can vent hot air out the sunroof w/o having to open the shade.
Do you have an LS400 or 430? Our '98 400 always gave a low approx reading right after refueling. Our 430 tends to the high side. The first 7000 miles were mainly highway driving. A couple of times it showed a range over 600 miles! We did drive it over 500 miles before refueling a few times. Now that we have settled down to mostly in-town driving, the range is more realistic, but still initially high, like just over 400. In going over 500 miles on a tank, I discovered that the gas gauge can go completely below the empty mark. The range reading goes to "LOW FUEL" anywhere from 40 to 80 miles remaining, depending on recent driving patterns. All-in-all, I find we are refueling with less remaining in the tank than we did with the LS400.
You mentioned you have 17" wheels with summer tires.I have a 2002 LS 430 on order.I was told they only come with low profile tires and since I wanted a more comfortable ride,I have to pay $500.00 extra to trade them out when car arrives at dealer.Is this what you did?And,what summer tire did you choose and are you satisfied?
I am about to buy/lease a new LS430 with NAV/LEV, and the apparantly mandatory Lexus Link (is it really so?). Can anyone provide me with the Residual and lease factors for a 48 month lease? Did they change today? A dealer told me so. Wha tis the best (good price, reliable end-of-lease, fewest junk charges) lease source? How does Toyota Motor Credit Corp (Lexus Financial) compare with any other optiosn out there? Any information would help... I am an old Lexus LS owner, ahving owned on since 1990. This would be my third one...
My 99 LS400 shows a range of ~350 miles after filling up, though my average consumption is 22-23mpg. On every tank, the low-fuel light first comes on with 45 miles remaining, and then the 'LOW FUEL' warning in the trip computer display at 25 miles. When I go a further 25 miles before filling up, there's still at least a gallon left in the tank.
I just purchased a 2001 LS 430. It's the entry model (without Navigation system, Mark Levinson sound system, chrome wheels, etc). The sticker was $56,875 and I got the car for $51,057. I am curious as to what others have paid for this car. I had a 1999 ES 300 which I thought was a great car, but the LS is incredible!
bitkahuna - What did you get yourself into here? I have an image of you as a fun-loving guy who bounces around from board to board, spars lightly now and then but makes some wonderful observations pretty often. Like flint350 & I - you say you are leaving a board but wander back because of your spirit. But I would never have expected you to get into a bit of a tussle here particularly with my good buddy flint. I went down the Jersey Shore for the 4th so I hope I can still get my wish list in. (by the way best best timed trip to the "shore" of my life as it kept me out of the market at a horrible time - now I have to re-strategize) Anyway I agree with most of the comments but how about adding a tire pressure monitor, run-flat tires and putting the memory seat controls on the remote so you set them as you are unlocking the car. I love the traffic concept for the radar and would like to see Lexus lengthen the car by 4-7 inches (at least as an option) and make an awd avialable but not if it compromises the ride quality and/or silence of the car. I don't think awd is so crucial in this class though - witness Audi which needs a year to match the number of LS-430's sold in less than a month. Please let's not go to BMW's I-drive concept. That concept reminds me of the TV mfrs. who incorporate a dvd player and a vcr into the set - something goes wrong with either auxiliary component and you lose all three. Good luck BMW with that strategy! By the way someone on the other board - I believe the guy who sat in the new 7 model - is making a lot of noise about electric window shades on the two rear passenger windows. Tell me - why does a driver care about that? Just keep it manual so a rear passenger can raise it or lower it as they please.
flint350 - you and I are not only on the same page but in the same sentence - no problem dropping me into your earlier post. I agree with you on Infinit's camera for a car but boy that idea is a darn good one for suv's particularly the large ones.
Bitkahuna - I hardly take any pleasure in seeing the poor quality posts on the S board. I look at it more like the traffic jam I missed. I also notice several of us who have had the drivers of the German cars in our cars, are making similar observations that they are very impressed. What I am amazed about is that so many S buyers have not test driven other lux cars and despite some very serious problems still are prone to buy the car again which leads me to assume that they are simply seeking the status they feel it gives them. Just give me the better car which I know I have. If I seem overconfident about that it is simply because the LS430 is the best riding car in the class and I don't ever expect it to give me a problem - and if it did it would be the first in 61/2+ years and counting - not a bad batting average. As well a friend of mine bought my 95 and he's at 150k miles and still only incurring basic maintenance costs and the car rides better than most new cars. Hard not to be confident.
I don't think so. They seem to have put more effort and thought into this car than any car save the original LS. I love the cushion between the seat and the center console which always collects one of my certz or tic-tacs. The manual having a typo will probably cause them to switch printers.
Bitkahuna - add a cd holder in one of the glove boxes. If you are going to make a car this quiet you can't have those cd's rattling around when you stop or accelerate the car quickly. My annoyance with that is well documented.
Not going to revisit the 'tussle' - flint and I have agreed to move past that.
But thanks for the comments on improvements. One comment on the run flats... I think there needs to be some improvements on those kinds of tires before they're used on an LS430 because they're pretty noisy (being so hard).
As far as a holder for CDs... if you mean the jewel cases, suggest for now you get a soft CD case to hold a bunch of CDs... shouldn't make any noise.
We've got to stop keeping these late hours. One thing I'll agree with you on is that sometimes a new idea (run flats for example) brings forward problems you haven't thought of. Some of the suggestions that I read seem good at first glance but I can think of the bad side of them too. It's the manufacturer that needs to make the right decision. By the way what is your experience with the GS4 and will you stay with Lexus for your next car? I'm not staying up to read your post though. See you later in the weekend.
The Summer Tires ARE low profile tires. I do not know if they are the same low profile tires that come on the vehicle you are getting.
The selection of the low profiles vs. standard profile is a personal matter. I liked racy cars all my life. What has happened, however, with the passage of time, is that the cornering ability of the typical car has risen and risen. The typical driver's nerves will give out before the Lexus' cornering ability will . The low profile tires boast that cornering ability a little bit more. They also make the car feel a bit more "on rails" (less slip).
Now, on the downside, the low profile tires are noisier and they ride a bit harder (less sidewall to "give" and absorb bumps). Also, they probably require swapping during the winter for those in wet, particularly snowy, climates (I live in LA, so this was not a consideration).
This is entirely a personal view, but in my case, I have no real need for the somewhat increased cornering ability (where am I going to race, given LA traffic?). On the other hand, the standard profile tires ride better. And, given how quiet a 430 is, I can really hear the noise of the low profiles. So, I will opt for the standard profiles for this reason, also, when my current low profiles wear out.
Now, if you are planning to do a lot of "near max cornering ability driving," the low profiles are good. And, the increased feeling of "being on rails" is nice. But, I would go for the better ride and lower noise. The car is a luxury vehicle, for most, and, even though it handles well, it is not a racer.
One other thing, MOST low profile, high performance tires are made of a softer compound. A softer compound is stickier, helping cornering, BUT, being softer, it wears faster.
I do not know if this is true of the Lexus low profiles, but I would suspect it is.
Has anyone compared the regular profiles with the low profile ("summer tires")?
ljflx -- I agree with your comment re the effort put into the original LS 400. I agree, the insert between the seat and the counsel is a great idea. Its so simple and obvious, makes you wonder why no one did it before. Unfortunately, I doubt the spelling problems and the poor writing in the manual are Lexus' printer's problem. The manuals were most likely delivered on a computer disk, not hard copy, so I doubt the errors were key punch errors by a type-setter.
flint350 -- Thanks for your concurrence.
I am greatful to all of you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate the comments on the cooling -- they quelled my concerns that I was starting to get too picky or that I was imaging things. Particular thanks to IKEY78, who observed "I have owned every version of LS so far and have not noticed the uncomfortable blasts of cold air before." I agree. With my LS 400, which I still own, I have left the temp on one setting for years. With my 430, I find I have to change it during the day. (ahh, life is hard!)
Make no mistake, overall the car is very good. I would not trade it for a Jag, MB, etc., all of which I have owned. Excellent fit and finish, etc. AND, the dealers are just AMAZING. It may sound crazy, but I would probably buy a slightly inferior LS just to avoid having to deal with non-Lexus dealers.
I think, in my case at least, we are seeing a case of "rising expectations." When you aren't expecting much, anything good is great. When you have come to expect perfection, well . . . . but I still think the errors in the manuals, though no big deal my themselves, are a symptom!
From a book I read recently, it said it's not relevant whether or not people are complaining (because they always will) - what is important is WHAT they are complaining about.
If we're complaining about a wheel falling off, that's one thing, and of course complaining about typos in the manual, that's something else altogether. :-) :-) Life must be pretty good!
A great experience so far. Love the performance and ergonomics, and the looks. I found the stock handling to be too 'floaty' over bumps on curves especially, and when Lexus announced their "L-Tuned" options (www.l-tuned.com), I had my dealer replace the stock springs/shocks with the L-Tuned ones. The difference is significant. No more float, car is lowered 1" and so the somewhat excessive 'wheel gap' is lessened, less body roll, and yet the ride is still comfortable. Very impressive. I'm not into racing or anything, but I do enjoy capable handling. This is the first time I'd ever had a car 'modified' in such a way, and I've since learned that it's addictive! Especially after I talked to other owners on clublexus.com (there's a pretty active LS section on there too).
So in addition to the spring/shocks upgrade (and the L-Tuned replacement steering ECU which makes the steering more sporty), I had TRD (Toyota Racing Development) beefier sway bays, strut tower brace and replacement lower chassis brace installed. Now the car has VERY impressive handling. Easily out corners a BMW 540i with sport package. I also had the L-Tuned exhaust mufflers/tips installed which look great, and provide a lower bassier exhaust sound (as opposed to basically silence). I didn't do it for the sound as much as the looks, but I like the sound too. I know most Lexus owners want silence, and at cruising speed or with the stereo on I still don't hear any exhaust, but it's a GREAT sound when I put my foot down.
Besides handling, I love the navigation system (needed it today to find an obscure address). The Pioneer sound system (mine's a 2000 so I couldn't get Mark Lev) is not bad, but could be better and certainly much better than the garbage they put in BMW 5 series.
As far as problems, let's see... the front wheel speed sensor failed and was replaced and there was one other minor thing I can't even think of right now. The moon roof cover doesn't stay tight shut now (after 15K miles) and makes a minor sound when it works its way loose. I'll ask the dealer to fix that next time I'm in.
"will you stay with Lexus for your next car?"
I expect so. This will probably be my last 'sports sedan' and I'll probably join you guys with an LS, but it's hard to say at this point, as I have no plans to buy another car for a few years.
I have a new LS430 that has had a myriad of problems, but this last one is a squeaking in the left front end when going over elevated bumps in the road or in parking lots. Like speed bumps. The noise occurs by just rolling over the bump. Doesn't require any speed at all. You can continue to hear it until the car levels out and regains a smooth ride. Lexus will be looking at it on Monday. Just thought I would ask. Man, I hate to complain, but now it is sunroof rattles, brakes grabbing and groaning, seat cushions squeaking and now suspension. Not at all like my 1998 LS400. Not one single problem in 3 years and over 45,000 miles. Too bad I traded.
My LS430 has all the problems of jarogj's, plus left front window rattles when over bumps, I had 98 LS400 too, never got a single problem too. Built quality of LS430 is not as good as 98-2000 LS400, Lexus may fix those within 2-3 years when they do minor face change.
I attached a page of additional suggestions to my ownership survey but got no acknowledgment from Ohio. Does anyone know the best place to write so our recommendations are considered?
Here are a few of the ideas to add to your list for upgrading the LS430: a. Illuminate the fuel door label if filler door is open. b. Add a 115 volt power outlet similar to the Toyota Avalon. c. Color coordinate the Lexus Link antenna to the exterior paint. d. Put a Nav voice command switch on the passenger side. e. When entering an address in the Nav system, default to the current city. f. Supply a CD ROM that contains the owners manual. It could also have a Nav system tutorial and a trip planning feature. Maybe use your PDA to zap the entire trip plan into the car.
I was pretty impressed with the GS430 when I tested it so I can imagine your tuned one. I didn't like the GS300 though. Just didn't have the pep and seemed quite a bit noisier. I still think about that silver GS430 with black interior (plus it had spoiler and the ML/Nav)I was looking at before I took the pine LS430. After my experience driving the Merc E-430 for 3 days the week before last I came to realize the GS430 is the better of the two cars. I know what you mean about the German stereos. The Merc cd players are in the trunk (abysmal) and the sound (both on the S430/500 I was testing and on that E-430) is way below the Lexus pioneer systems. What are they thinking?
jarogi/tomkun - you guys seem to have gotten bad cars. Why not contact Lexus USA and ask them to do something about it? My experience with 2 LS430's is that they are built as good and probably better than my 98 which, I agree with both of you, was an exceptional car.
When you change from low profile to standard tires, do you also have to change the wheels? I.e. change from 17 inch to 16 inch wheels? If so, how much cost does that add to the new tires?
When I got the car I told the salesman I wanted the options that gave me the *ignore* ride possible, and my car came with the 17 inch wheels and low profile tires. Did he screw up? Thanks for your help.
Hey bitkahuna - read in newsweek that the technology to bind a chemical to the windshield which will eat dirt and other windshield residue like bug splatter and bird you know what has arrived. This is a must have in any new lux car. The only trick is that the windshield must absorb uv rays from the sun for the compound to work. I guess it will work best in Phoenix and worst in Seattle on Bill Gates' Lexus LS though I'm sure he'll figure a way around it. Please put it on the docket.
flint350/bitkahuna - Since I know both of you are into the techno stuff any recommendations on a digital camera. I'm looking at the new 3mln pixel Olympus which CNET recommends. I'm still using film these days but want to go to digital and practice with the camera before I go on vacation in August.
Olympus, Canon (G1), and Casio (QV3500) are all great cameras. I have a Casio QV3000 which is amazing (I think it has the same Canon lens as the G1), and came bundled with an IBM microdrive so I can save 250 highest quality pictures before offloading!
If you asked for the quietest tires and he gave you the low profile, summer tires, I believe he did screw up.
"Low profile" refers to the ratio between the width of the tire compared to the "height" of the sidewall. A railroad wheel has a VERY high profile (not really a perfect example, because its all wheel, with no tire, but I think it gets the idea across). If you have seen cars from the 20s, they often had narrow tires that were also very "tall" (lots of sidewall). These are high profile.
You may have seen cars modified by kids that look like the wheels have little tire at all. Those are very low profile. Formula One racers have low profile tires.
If you asked the dealer for the quietest tire, he should have given you the standard profile tire, as it has more side wall, more give, and generates less noise.
As to putting a normal or high profile tire on a 17" wheel, you need to make sure that the service advisor understand that there is a difference in sidewall height and he certifies that doing so is OK.
Minimally, presuming the new tires have a greater diameter, I presume the GPS will have to be recalibrated -- there is a built in feature for doing that -- and a suitable adjustment would be needed for the other devices that run off of the tires and which assume a certain tire diameter.
I do not know, but it would not surprize me if he tells you that you need to switch to the 16" wheels if you want to stick with standard Lexus 430 components. The Lexus site shows the 17" wheels matched to the low profiles and the 16" wheels matched to regular profiles.
To my knowledge, all LS 430 Ultras on the West Coast come with 17' wheels, with "Summer Tires." If this applied in your case, or, in any event, your salesman would have had to have noted that the service department should change the wheels and tires before delivering the car to you. And, it should have cost you a bit less (I seem to think its a $100 difference).
I just got a Kodak DC4800 a few days ago and I'm very happy with it. You can also get a $100 rebate until 7/14. It rated highly on CNET (#1 pick for semi-pro camera). Bottom line cost after rebate should be around $400 for a 3.1 mpixel, LiIon battery and all cables.
ljflx, I use a Nikon Coolpix 950 (available for a little under $500 now - was orig. $900) and Nikon has newer models with over 3megapixels. My only specific advice would be to look closely at the type of memory card any camera uses. IMO, compact flash is superior to smart media and can be had in much larger memory sizes. For a really good site with lots and lots of info on all of this, visit: http://www.steves-digicams.com/
I'd be glad to answer any specific questions, but would need to know more about you and how you intend to use it (e.g. simple point/shoot, complex manual settings, print outs or just store on computer, knowledge of PhotoShop, etc. etc.)
Took delivery of a white/ecru with Nav./ML about three weeks ago. About one and half weeks ago I received a letter from their Torrence, Calif. regional office thanking me for allowing them "the opportunity of ugrading the Lexus Link" in my car and going on to "apologize for any inconvenience caused by this upgrade to your vehicle". The letter concluded by saying "We appreciate you giving us another chance to pursue perfection". I really didn't know what they were talking about with this letter. Then when we used Lexus Link to clarify instructions to a destination from the Nav. system, we were told that we "didn't have that option" to receive that form of service from L.L. and that was "an additional $198 per year".
My wife (it's her car), called Torrence the next day and asked what the "upgrade" was and why the complete L.L. service doesn't come with the car. We were given a cryptic answer and dismissed. I was, to say the least, bummed. When I bought my DTS Cadillac, full service "On-Star" was included for the first year. Why isn't it with a car costing well over $60,000. Secondly, why send this letter and then dissappoint the customer in a major way. (The so called "upgrade" is apparently a better antenna).
My conclusion: although overall this is a small issue, I am disapponted and disillusioned in Lexus, and this is my 5th Lexus!
Do you HEAR me Lexus?
Any others receive this worthless, propaganda letter?
For all of you who have the Mark Levinson stereo, how well does the cd player track the cd's. How well does it track live concert recordings and how pleased are you with the system? thanks
Thanks for the advice on the camera. Flint350 - basically point and shoot, short moving shots for when I don't bring my ZR10, computer storage & printouts (I do have the hp p1100 printer which I got a great buy on through my job). I'll check out the website. I'm leaning towards the Olympus 3040 zoom but haven't ruled out the new Nikon. I've had Nikons all my life and they've been great but I'm past the point of serious manual shots of my past SLR's and can always go back to them when I get that urge. I have heard great things about the Kodak stevestein purchased as well but prefer the Olympus or the Nikon. I'll checkout the website you noted. It's great to have saved all this money on the LS430 vs. what I almost went for in that S-500. Sitting watching the allstar game on that new Sony and loving this TV. Ripkin is something isn't he!
Mark Lev radio - To keep it as simple as possible it is the best car stereo I've ever heard and I didn't think anything could top the Nakamichi in my 98 LS400 - but it certainly does. I thought the guys who were saying that it would sound better the more it was played were crazy but they were right on the money. The only problem is I like to play it reasonably loud, which is where it sounds the best but my wife is always lowering the volume.
I have an audiophile stereo system at home (yes, the whole purist bit: tube amplifiers, high-end turntable, weird exotic cables, etc.) The ML system is fantastic. Just fantastic.
I have had no skipping problems, etc.
The grill on the left, rear speaker vibrates in resonance to low bass, but that is not an ML problem per se and the dealer is scheduled to fix it tomorrow.
Comments
I am always setting the laser cruise control to the same speeds. How about some kind of memory or presets for these settings as well as the distance to the car ahead.I also like the idea of having the cruise always on as suggested in previous posts.
If you use the mode button on the steering column it cycles through all of the FM types. I only use FM 1 so a way to exclude the others would be nice.
Need a mute button on the steering column. Yes, you can set the bottom volume button to zero but it takes a while to ramp up again.
Agree that the cooling seats are not very effective.
bitkahuna, what are you going to do with all the replies you are getting? Are you going to compile them and forward them to Lexus?
quicker downshifts
cruise control improvements.
the other things mentioned will be on my next lexus in 3 yrs when i trade out the lease. boy what to look forward to and you know if it's lexus IT WILL BE DONE RIGHT (listening MB ?)
I'm looking forward to an AWD ls430, improved NAV and more option groupings (maybe i'm glad i didn't get the custom package and deal with the lack of cooling seats hate to spend the $$$ for an option that doesn't really help that much.
HOW CLOSE TO PERFECTION FOR A 2001 MODEL YEAR CAR
= LS430 enuf said
GIVEN THE CHOICE TO DRIVE A CAR OR LIVE WITH A CAR DAY IN DAY OUT= LS430
Improvements/corrections:
Ditto on:
"Ability to change destinations on the navigation system while driving." The system is inconsistent on this. You can go to a previous destination, but not a previously Marked Point. The car knows if there is a front seat passenger, so if there is, there should be no restriction on any input into the AV system.
"A hands free telephone system that would accept your phone or a phone and service company of your choice." Absolutely. Sprint, the system they say they are coming out with (much delayed) has terrible service is LA. I mean, terrible.
"More cooling power for the cooled front seats." Agreed. I hardly notice the effect, if any. Plus, the fans have a soft whine when turned up.
"Have the front seat slide rearward a few inches when the key is removed." Good idea.
"Modifying Route determination according to traffic patterns." Terrific idea. Probably requires some items outside of Lexus' direct control (like gather up and integrating traffic data, but they could set up a unit to do it, then sell the data to other auto makers, just like ON STAR provides service to other makers, just branded in that makers name).
"A/C Noise" Ditto. Yes, if the car was not so basically quiet, we would not notice, but I find the rear AC air flow surprisingly loud, considering that a larger vent, or perhaps two vents, might have reduced the noise, without great cost.
AC Zoning Scheme -- The "rear" AC is really the "rear, side" AC. Results in two different air streams, with two temperatures, being sent to the back.
There is a competition between rear seat temperature controller and the dash controls, that I do not understand.
Driver Seat Memory Setting -- You must put the car in park or neutral to save the driver seat memory settings. So, if you make these adjustments while driving, which is not uncommon, but forget to save them once you have stopped, your work is wasted. The Type S Jag lets you save whenever you wish.
Orange Peel -- the car has great paint, but the better the paint and clearcoat on a car, and the better you keep it polished, the more the orange peel shows. The cars show a lot of orange peel when kept polished and waxed. It would not seem that expensive (if done at the factory) to color sand the base coat to get rid of the orange peel then to apply the clear coat. There is a huge difference in appearance when you have no orange peel.
No Mute -- Bizzare
No Memory setting for front passenger seat.
I have owned an LS since day one of the line's creation, purchasing an 1990 LS brand new. I was knocked out by the car (and the service) and have been a fanatic Lexus customer.
I think a little less insistence on perfection went into the 2001 LS 430. Evidence: in and of itself, this is no big deal, but it is a symptom: they did not even bother to spell check the manual, which contains numerous spelling errors (as well as very poor writing in many places). As I said, this is not catastrophic, but it shows a sloppiness that is astonishing for a company I always thought of as "relentlessly pursuing excellence." I have had the car in the shop three times in the two months I have owned it, to correct problems that existed on delivery.
Overall, it IS a very good car, BUT, I think Lexus is slipping. Any doubts I had were erased by the manual errors and the phone situation, both of which were obvious problems and which should never have occurred and which could only have occurred if someone was asleep on the job. I have not thought of Lexus as being asleep on the job.
M
I agree with the air conditioning issues that have been brought up. I have owned every version of LS so far and have not noticed the uncomfortable blasts of cold air before. Pushing the vents towards the ceiling helps but causes a lot of wind noise with my Nokia car kit microphone mounted above. Interestingly if you push the vents towards the passenger side they will stay on that side in "moving vent" mode (even if there is no passenger) until the car is restarted.
To put all of this in perspective, the car is great but nothing is perfect. These are simply constructive suggestions to tweak an amazing product and make it even better.
Couldn't have said it better! And most of the ideas so far shouldn't cost Lexus much to implement either.
Here's another idea... how about sensors that figure out if a driver is drifting out of their lane (I've seen experimental technology that can do this) or worse, off the road? It would have to distinguish that from changing lanes of course, but maybe it could deactivate if the turn signal is engaged in a reasonable amount of time before the lane shift! Would make people signal their intentions, anyway!!
And another one - work with the phone companies to make integrating one's personal cell phone into the car easier! It's crazy no manufacturer has done this yet (to my knowledgwe). Give me a phone slot/connector that makes the portable phone then work seamlessly with the nav/stereo and maybe steering wheel buttons and even voice activation.
These things make a car more convenient AND safer.
This laundry list can and should be continually updated, but since most of it already was discussed earlier, I personally didn't respond to your initial challenge to me - not because I had some false notion of Lexus perfection. And I agree, peace!
Would like to hear from others if you are having similar experiences. Can this be corrected?
Add to the list of improvments vents in the sunroof shade ala MB. This way you can vent hot air out the sunroof w/o having to open the shade.
flint350 - you and I are not only on the same page but in the same sentence - no problem dropping me into your earlier post. I agree with you on Infinit's camera for a car but boy that idea is a darn good one for suv's particularly the large ones.
Bitkahuna - I hardly take any pleasure in seeing the poor quality posts on the S board. I look at it more like the traffic jam I missed. I also notice several of us who have had the drivers of the German cars in our cars, are making similar observations that they are very impressed. What I am amazed about is that so many S buyers have not test driven other lux cars and despite some very serious problems still are prone to buy the car again which leads me to assume that they are simply seeking the status they feel it gives them. Just give me the better car which I know I have. If I seem overconfident about that it is simply because the LS430 is the best riding car in the class and I don't ever expect it to give me a problem - and if it did it would be the first in 61/2+ years and counting - not a bad batting average. As well a friend of mine bought my 95 and he's at 150k miles and still only incurring basic maintenance costs and the car rides better than most new cars. Hard not to be confident.
But thanks for the comments on improvements. One comment on the run flats... I think there needs to be some improvements on those kinds of tires before they're used on an LS430 because they're pretty noisy (being so hard).
As far as a holder for CDs... if you mean the jewel cases, suggest for now you get a soft CD case to hold a bunch of CDs... shouldn't make any noise.
The selection of the low profiles vs. standard profile is a personal matter. I liked racy cars all my life. What has happened, however, with the passage of time, is that the cornering ability of the typical car has risen and risen. The typical driver's nerves will give out before the Lexus' cornering ability will . The low profile tires boast that cornering ability a little bit more. They also make the car feel a bit more "on rails" (less slip).
Now, on the downside, the low profile tires are noisier and they ride a bit harder (less sidewall to "give" and absorb bumps). Also, they probably require swapping during the winter for those in wet, particularly snowy, climates (I live in LA, so this was not a consideration).
This is entirely a personal view, but in my case, I have no real need for the somewhat increased cornering ability (where am I going to race, given LA traffic?). On the other hand, the standard profile tires ride better. And, given how quiet a 430 is, I can really hear the noise of the low profiles. So, I will opt for the standard profiles for this reason, also, when my current low profiles wear out.
Now, if you are planning to do a lot of "near max cornering ability driving," the low profiles are good. And, the increased feeling of "being on rails" is nice. But, I would go for the better ride and lower noise. The car is a luxury vehicle, for most, and, even though it handles well, it is not a racer.
That's my two cents, for what it is worth.
I do not know if this is true of the Lexus low profiles, but I would suspect it is.
Has anyone compared the regular profiles with the low profile ("summer tires")?
flint350 -- Thanks for your concurrence.
I am greatful to all of you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate the comments on the cooling -- they quelled my concerns that I was starting to get too picky or that I was imaging things. Particular thanks to IKEY78, who observed "I have owned every version of LS so far and have not noticed the uncomfortable blasts of cold air before." I agree. With my LS 400, which I still own, I have left the temp on one setting for years. With my 430, I find I have to change it during the day. (ahh, life is hard!)
Make no mistake, overall the car is very good. I would not trade it for a Jag, MB, etc., all of which I have owned. Excellent fit and finish, etc. AND, the dealers are just AMAZING. It may sound crazy, but I would probably buy a slightly inferior LS just to avoid having to deal with non-Lexus dealers.
I think, in my case at least, we are seeing a case of "rising expectations." When you aren't expecting much, anything good is great. When you have come to expect perfection, well . . . . but I still think the errors in the manuals, though no big deal my themselves, are a symptom!
If we're complaining about a wheel falling off, that's one thing, and of course complaining about typos in the manual, that's something else altogether. :-) :-) Life must be pretty good!
A great experience so far. Love the performance and ergonomics, and the looks. I found the stock handling to be too 'floaty' over bumps on curves especially, and when Lexus announced their "L-Tuned" options (www.l-tuned.com), I had my dealer replace the stock springs/shocks with the L-Tuned ones. The difference is significant. No more float, car is lowered 1" and so the somewhat excessive 'wheel gap' is lessened, less body roll, and yet the ride is still comfortable. Very impressive. I'm not into racing or anything, but I do enjoy capable handling. This is the first time I'd ever had a car 'modified' in such a way, and I've since learned that it's addictive! Especially after I talked to other owners on clublexus.com (there's a pretty active LS section on there too).
So in addition to the spring/shocks upgrade (and the L-Tuned replacement steering ECU which makes the steering more sporty), I had TRD (Toyota Racing Development) beefier sway bays, strut tower brace and replacement lower chassis brace installed. Now the car has VERY impressive handling. Easily out corners a BMW 540i with sport package. I also had the L-Tuned exhaust mufflers/tips installed which look great, and provide a lower bassier exhaust sound (as opposed to basically silence). I didn't do it for the sound as much as the looks, but I like the sound too. I know most Lexus owners want silence, and at cruising speed or with the stereo on I still don't hear any exhaust, but it's a GREAT sound when I put my foot down.
Besides handling, I love the navigation system (needed it today to find an obscure address). The Pioneer sound system (mine's a 2000 so I couldn't get Mark Lev) is not bad, but could be better and certainly much better than the garbage they put in BMW 5 series.
As far as problems, let's see... the front wheel speed sensor failed and was replaced and there was one other minor thing I can't even think of right now. The moon roof cover doesn't stay tight shut now (after 15K miles) and makes a minor sound when it works its way loose. I'll ask the dealer to fix that next time I'm in.
"will you stay with Lexus for your next car?"
I expect so. This will probably be my last 'sports sedan' and I'll probably join you guys with an LS, but it's hard to say at this point, as I have no plans to buy another car for a few years.
Thanks for asking.
Here are a few of the ideas to add to your list for upgrading the LS430:
a. Illuminate the fuel door label if filler door is open.
b. Add a 115 volt power outlet similar to the Toyota Avalon.
c. Color coordinate the Lexus Link antenna to the exterior paint.
d. Put a Nav voice command switch on the passenger side.
e. When entering an address in the Nav system, default to the current city.
f. Supply a CD ROM that contains the owners manual. It could also have a Nav system tutorial and a trip planning feature. Maybe use your PDA to zap the entire trip plan into the car.
jarogi/tomkun - you guys seem to have gotten bad cars. Why not contact Lexus USA and ask them to do something about it? My experience with 2 LS430's is that they are built as good and probably better than my 98 which, I agree with both of you, was an exceptional car.
When I got the car I told the salesman I wanted the options that gave me the *ignore* ride possible, and my car came with the 17 inch wheels and low profile tires. Did he screw up? Thanks for your help.
flint350/bitkahuna - Since I know both of you are into the techno stuff any recommendations on a digital camera. I'm looking at the new 3mln pixel Olympus which CNET recommends. I'm still using film these days but want to go to digital and practice with the camera before I go on vacation in August.
Yes!!
If you asked for the quietest tires and he gave you the low profile, summer tires, I believe he did screw up.
"Low profile" refers to the ratio between the width of the tire compared to the "height" of the sidewall. A railroad wheel has a VERY high profile (not really a perfect example, because its all wheel, with no tire, but I think it gets the idea across). If you have seen cars from the 20s, they often had narrow tires that were also very "tall" (lots of sidewall). These are high profile.
You may have seen cars modified by kids that look like the wheels have little tire at all. Those are very low profile. Formula One racers have low profile tires.
If you asked the dealer for the quietest tire, he should have given you the standard profile tire, as it has more side wall, more give, and generates less noise.
As to putting a normal or high profile tire on a 17" wheel, you need to make sure that the service advisor understand that there is a difference in sidewall height and he certifies that doing so is OK.
Minimally, presuming the new tires have a greater diameter, I presume the GPS will have to be recalibrated -- there is a built in feature for doing that -- and a suitable adjustment would be needed for the other devices that run off of the tires and which assume a certain tire diameter.
I do not know, but it would not surprize me if he tells you that you need to switch to the 16" wheels if you want to stick with standard Lexus 430 components. The Lexus site shows the 17" wheels matched to the low profiles and the 16" wheels matched to regular profiles.
Oops, that was supposed to be "NAV" -- was changed by the evil spell checker.
To my knowledge, all LS 430 Ultras on the West Coast come with 17' wheels, with "Summer Tires." If this applied in your case, or, in any event, your salesman would have had to have noted that the service department should change the wheels and tires before delivering the car to you. And, it should have cost you a bit less (I seem to think its a $100 difference).
I'd be glad to answer any specific questions, but would need to know more about you and how you intend to use it (e.g. simple point/shoot, complex manual settings, print outs or just store on computer, knowledge of PhotoShop, etc. etc.)
My wife (it's her car), called Torrence the next day and asked what the "upgrade" was and why the complete L.L. service doesn't come with the car. We were given a cryptic answer and dismissed. I was, to say the least, bummed. When I bought my DTS Cadillac, full service "On-Star" was included for the first year. Why isn't it with a car costing well over $60,000. Secondly, why send this letter and then dissappoint the customer in a major way. (The so called "upgrade" is apparently a better antenna).
My conclusion: although overall this is a small issue, I am disapponted and disillusioned in Lexus, and this is my 5th Lexus!
Do you HEAR me Lexus?
Any others receive this worthless, propaganda letter?
Mark Lev radio - To keep it as simple as possible it is the best car stereo I've ever heard and I didn't think anything could top the Nakamichi in my 98 LS400 - but it certainly does. I thought the guys who were saying that it would sound better the more it was played were crazy but they were right on the money. The only problem is I like to play it reasonably loud, which is where it sounds the best but my wife is always lowering the volume.
The Olympus 3040 looks like an EXCELLENT camera. The E10 looks even better.
Depends in the end on how much you want to spend, and how big a camera you're comfortable with.
I didn't want a heavy camera again (I sold my 35mm Canon EOS Elan II once I got my Casio QV3000EX).
Make sure you consider getting the biggest memory card you can, or a microdrive (tiny IBM hard drive the same size as a type II compact flash card).
I have an audiophile stereo system at home (yes, the whole purist bit: tube amplifiers, high-end turntable, weird exotic cables, etc.) The ML system is fantastic. Just fantastic.
I have had no skipping problems, etc.
The grill on the left, rear speaker vibrates in resonance to low bass, but that is not an ML problem per se and the dealer is scheduled to fix it tomorrow.