Lexus LS 400/LS 430

swiftm · September 2002

et610: I purchased a 00 LX and RX at Riverside, CA. I Had the RX shipped from CA to AL, where I was temp. at the time. The RX had only 5 miles on odo and in a perfect condition when arried, I paid $1000 for shipping, I still have the RX and currently reside in CA. My point is, try to deal on the internet and don't be afraid to have it ship to your front door. try lexus of riverside, CA. I paid approx. $500 over invoice each and had $500 rebate each at the time, what a deal. I am ready for a LS next month. good luck.

flint350 · September 2002

Yeah, you can't let those benz guys get away with some of the stuff they claim/say. Gotta keep 'em honest.

merc1 · September 2002

Oh, is that right?

M

nealm1 · September 2002

And then there are some for whom that is an impossible task.

mall610 · September 2002

I have noticed that there is an unusual amount of negitive references to MB on the Lexus Board. The Mercedes board has no posts or comments knocking Lexus. Why is that?

Why the continued MB bashing? Why not just be confident with the excellence of your Lexus and leave the MB people out of it.

I am very sure that I am going to be the brunt of a whole bunch of angry and ugly comments. I am not defending MB, just curious as to why the need to constantly knock another good car.

wwest · September 2002

No one on the MB board has need to bash Lexus, that's my job.

airmatic · September 2002

personally
I think that it would be really nice if the 2003 LS430 came with a designo series because I am sort of in love with the espresso color with the brown interior. My friend has a S500 with that, and I have a neighbor who has a SC430, with saddle interior (i find saddle similar to the espresso interior).

But then, mercedes-lovers would begin accusing lexus of copying them again...

ljflx · September 2002

When you have the time you probably need to read the lux compaison boards (there are two of them, one is a read only), the LS board and the S board in the Dec 2000 time frame for 6 months or so and you will see plenty of bashing in every direction. Some of the best arguments took place when the fans of the German cars said Lexus cars had "no heritage". I loved that one and could only think of IBM's heritage vs. Microsoft and Intel's market caps as a business equivalent. So much for heritage. Anyway those are the fun days flint350 meant in a post a few weeks back.

But the reality of it all is that Lexus vs. MB seems to have replaced BMW vs. MB. It's a bit like the coke vs. pepsi of the auto world and the moment the subject arises the posts get lively. Just look at the recent comparo lux board. The posts have died out since the last LEX-MB "discussion".

The preferences come down to style choices. I think Edmunds captured it very well if you read the lux sports car test. MB SL500 finishes first and SC430 second. Why - the testers will always prefer sport over luxury. But Lexus buyers prefer the luxury over sport. Better reliability and saving $20-30k are also rather important items. So the battle lines are drawn.

merc1 · September 2002

Because they have justification issues. I've said it before and it's still true. There is this theory that anyone that buys anything else (specifically a MB) is not too smart.

ljflx,

There is a difference between us/you/me arguing over this, as we've done in the past. Some of those topics were set up just for that. The thing in here and other Lexus boards is that Lexus folk have to knock MB for no good reason whenever mentioning their cars. If the Lexus is better there is no need to shout about or bash MB at every turn. You all constantly make little swipes/jokes in here about Mercedes, whether it be MB's not "starting" or whatever.

M

ljflx · September 2002

I guess I'm already justifying my next lease/buy too. Man - do you have it wrong!

In many cases the Lexus is the better car and in others the MB is. You can't handle any swipe on an MB. And you read every liitle thing as a swipe. All flint350 did on the other board was jump in to correct something that was dead wrong. But he is justifying his purchase in your mind. MB is your baby - we all know that but you haven't put your money where your mouth is yet.

nealm1 · September 2002

Gosh, I could have sworn I read posts from MB sycophants dissing Lexus' lack of "heritage," equating its handling to that of a Buick, and dismissing its styling as derivative and even ugly. But that all must have simply been a dream, since I now read that only Lexus owners feel the need to "knock" the car's competitors. My bad!

As ljflx correctly points out, I suppose you can't justify something you haven't yet done.

By the way, I had my first opportunity to take a good look at an E500 in the flesh. On the plus side, it has a beautiful exterior, much better than the (attractive) pictures I have seen on the web. As I have acknowledged in the past, I think that the MB exterior designer crew is a step or two ahead of Lexus in most cases. The car is small, however, (seems smaller than the last version) and the interior is, IMHO, just plain cheesy. Point in case: there are two round dials at the top of the center stack that are a shiney black plastic with a chrome-colored trim around the edge; looks like the wheels on a cheap plastic toy car my son might play with. In fact, the plastics are generally kind of shiney and cheap looking. Clearly not up to Lexus, Audi, or BMW stds, in my view.

My, I feel better having justified my purchase!

scottphillip · September 2002

I looked at the new E class too, and thought that it was a little too small inside.

carfan4sure · September 2002

I agree with you there. The reality in the US for most of us is straight roads and a speed limited by traffic. I'd drive a BMW M5, but I wouldn't be able to use half of its capability, so I compromise with a more luxurious and reliable LS. If I test drove cars all day for a living I'd favor sport over luxury, too.

ljflx · September 2002

That's why pouring investments into technologies that only work on the race track aren't a sound business strategy for the long-term. Great for the these test drivers but useless most of the time. Americans also don't drive like Europeans. I remember once in Amsterdam (in a Honda Accord by the way) a guy from my parent company drove past a bicyclist on a canal bridge at around 40mph. If I rolled the window down I could have slapped the cyclist five without stretching my hand out much. That's how close he was to the car - on the passenger side. Over here we have people who are afraid to go to the right of a turning car when they have 3-5 feet or more of space - on the driver side.

greg31l · September 2002

Yesterday afternoon I took delivery of a new 2003 LS430. I spent the evening reading the owner's manual and am starting to understand the nav system. I sat there in my garage with the Mark Lev sound system playing while reading. Great sound. The finsh on the car is a 10 with the interior finish being even more perfect. This was the first 2003 my dealer had delivered and the salesman was amazed at how much the nav had improved.

I looked at the MB S but liked the interior of the LS better. I also could not see how to justify the price differance. I have previously owned both a LS 400 and a MB S and liked the Lexus better. In addition the Lexus service was better.

I also looked at the new MB E500. Great looking exterior but I am a big guy and felt a little cramped in the E.

airmatic · September 2002

well then, what kind did/package of LS430 did you get? I think that if you got an Ultra-lux, I would get a 2003 745i or maybe, maybe, a S430. But then, all those options like the rear massagers and great gps system makes it quite tempting.

i guess I will keep my s-class until the new 2005 S430 comes out. based on several computer drawings and actual spy cars, it lookes quite impressive.

I would have really have considered the new E320 or E500 if only the interior design was better, and there was more space. its really tight in the back! For some reason, the materials on the new E-class seems to be cheaper looking than on the previous generation. I was at first not used to being seen all the plastics in a mercedes, but after the s-class experience, I am sort of used to it.

I also got the change to test drive a black 745Li yesterday. outside is absolutely avant-garde and fantastic, but I hate the design of the consol and idrive feature. The car feels like the previous generation giant S-class.

merc1 · September 2002

Thats fine and of course I disagree. Some, (not always you) are just ridiculous. I see a many posts about the E-Class being too small, yet I don't see that about the 5-Series, S-Type, A6 or any of the MIDSIZE cars in the E's class. If room is a priority then why are you looking at the E-Class? The S-Class is for room. FYI, flint350 didn't correct squat. The S-Class' back seat is roomier where it counts in FEEL, not numbers.

" MB is your baby - we all know that but you haven't put your money where your mouth is yet."

Soon my friend, soon.

nealm1,

See above. "Equating it's handling to a Buick" yep, the PRESS said that.

M

chuck107 · September 2002

Took delivery of my LS 430 (UL) on Wednesday. Absolutely love this car. This is my first Lexus in over 10 years. I have been driving a BMW 7 series for the last 4 years. After following the numerous problems this car has had on their message board,I decided not to buy the new 7 series.
I would like some input on the Lexus extended warranty packages. Pro and cons. Are the quoted suggested prices negotiable?

carfan4sure · September 2002

I can't answer your question directly, but I would question whether you need an extended warranty at all. I bought my LS400 twelve years ago; I would have lost money buying an extended warranty because I had nothing but routine maintenance for the first 165,000 miles. This Summer I lost the illumination of the speedometer and tachometer and the power antenna died, but that would have been beyond any extended warranty available that I know of. Now, there are a lot of options on a UL that I don't have, of course, so the jury is out on the adviseability of an extended warranty for those options. A month after the warranty ran on my dad's Chevrolets the dashboard clock always quit running...

lenscap · September 2002

Yes, you can negotiate the price of the warranty, although it's easier to do before you buy the car. I bought a 2002 ES 300 and the 7-year/100,000 mile warranty was $1650. I paid $1200.

One power window switch going out could be $500. And if you have a problem with the nav (which I also have) you could be looking at big bucks. It's very much a personal decision but I decided to go with it.

stlouisslim · September 2002

Remember that you can wait to get the extended warranty until just before your factory warranty expires. That gives you awile to think about it and wait for a deal. There are three different levels of extended warrenty, might want to consider the more expensive ones if they cover all the electric do-dads. Door-closers and mirror retractors look vulnerable. Those parking assist sensors cost $500 each and there are ten of them. The complete laser cruise control system will cost you $3000 to replace and the air suspension is more than that. Don't want to even think how much the nav system might cost.

I haven't decided whether or not to get one for my UL yet.

carfan4sure · September 2002

That is remarkable. I'm trying to find a custom luxury car, and in reviewing the option packages, I see where parking assist can be added for only $500.00 But, if there are ten of them at $500/each to repair... What does collision and comprehensive coverage cost on an LS430?

ljflx · September 2002

Nothing out of the ordinary.

chuck107 · September 2002

When selecting criteria for routes, what does "Restricted Road" actually mean? Toll road and freeway are self explanatory but that one has me!

woppenhe · September 2002

Anyone had any experience with reapiring small (less thatn 3 mm ) chips in the wihdshield. These are a by product of freeways and long trips.

brtmd · September 2002

I had about a 1 cm chip fixed professionally, with very good results--barely perceptible now. But I have never tried to fix one myself if that is what you are asking.

woppenhe · September 2002

I just wondered if it was worth it for very small chips such as a 2mm pit.

brtmd · October 2002

I believe the only real reason to repair chips is to keep the windshield from cracking, which would necessitate replacement (much more expensive). I would not think a very tiny, superficial defect would create enough of a stress point to eventually crack, but I would ask a glass repair shop for an opinion.

BTW, I just have to add that I am enjoying the LS more each day--about 4 weeks now. Man, what an awesome car!

maxhonda99 · October 2002

merc1, From several posts(of yours), the conclusion that occurs is that you specifically come to this board to bash Lexus. And when Mercedes-Benz gets bashed, you end up complaining. If you bash other people's favorite car brands, do expect the same to happen to your favorite brand.

Yes, Lexus owners may make the statement that buying a Mercedes is not smart, just like you will make a statement about buying a Lexus is not smart. I would recommend taking your own advice, don't bash car brands if you don't want yours to get bashed.

carfan4sure · October 2002

Has anyone who has repaired their windshield had any issues because of the lamination they now put on the windshields for waterproofing? Is the repair compromised in any respect?

ljflx · October 2002

Just go check out post 701 on the BMW 7 board and you'll see how this stuff gets started. But of course if you hit back you are justifying your purchase. In all these posts I have never seen a Lexus buyer/fan make a post like that. But you'll see them on German car boards. You are 100% right though - if you are going to dish it out you better be able to take it.

merc1 · October 2002

Never ever, not even once said anyone was dumb for buying a Lexus. Never since I've been on this board, so you're dead wrong there, at least about me.

M

merc1 · October 2002

"In all these posts I have never seen a Lexus buyer/fan make a post like that."

Oh please, I just read post 701 on the 7-Series board and I have ask if you actually read the post yourself. There was nothing in that post that even comes close to what you and nealm1 and others have tried to imply about Benz owners. That post said nothing even remotely "bashing" about Lexus, all he did was question if any would want one. He didn't call anyone dumb or "not too smart" for buying a Lexus like you and others have done on the High End Luxury board.

M

ljflx · October 2002

I guess you missed the word ugghh. I also guess you dont read the sentence before it as sarcastic. Particularly with the ensuing word after that sentence.

Anyway this is really getting ridiculous. We should all just give in to you and say the cars you love are the greatest on the planet - no questions about it.

lenscap · October 2002

Does anyone know of a product to use on the wood trim? I've been told I can use Zymol car polish, but thought maybe there was a specific product that someobody offered.

maxhonda99 · October 2002

merc1, This is not the only board out there. I've read your posts elsewhere in town hall. And I know you have a penchant for bashing anything that is non-Mercedes. Give it a rest.

I've read your Lexus bashing posts, as well as Infiniti & Acura. Grow up. And if you can't take the Mercedes bashing, then bash stuff someplace where people will actually believe your hoopla.

I can't even begin to understand why a Mercedes lover & a Lexus hater would even post in a Lexus only topic. It looks to me like you just like to get into situations like this.

ljflx · October 2002

If you replaced Lexus with MB in that sentence it would be ok with you??

I also don't recall anyone saying a person who bought an MB was dumb. That would be a rather dumb statement to begin with considering MB prices and the earnings power you need to buy the cars. What I do remember was people like Nealm1 and I questioning the value issues of MB cars, particularly the E-class. I even said at one point that some of the buyers didn't know any better. That does not mean they are dumb. I've had many people in the LS400 and 430 over the years who were MB & BMW buyers and were amazed at the quality and ride of the car. Why? They were never in one before. They were the type of people I was referring to. Dumb? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Some of them make 7 figures and are among the smartest people I know. Some of them have since switched off to Lexus and aren't going back. Some of them have not. One even went back to Cadillac. Enough said about this.

maxhonda - Just for the record - he loves German cars in general but MB is his favorite.

merc1 · October 2002

If you'd read my posts carefully then you'll know I've never called anyone dumb or anything else like that for buying a Lexus. My criticisms of their cars will always stand, doesn't mean I have to call the owners dumb and such. Period. The most I've ever said about them personally is that they aren't enthusiast, specifically when speaking about the LS430. While I'm "growing up" learn to comprehend before writing.

About Infiniti and Acura, have you read anything from me that wasn't the truth? Yes or no. If you'd fix that problem I mentioned above you would know I have very, very little against Acura or Infiniti for the most part.

"I can't even begin to understand why a Mercedes lover & a Lexus hater would even post in a Lexus only topic."

Funny thing is , I keep getting mentioned in here.

ljflx,

Is that all you've got is "ughh" in that post? That's nothing compared to some of things I've read here and in the other luxury car topics from Lex owners. You're missing the point, Nealm1 has implied this over and over, and "questioned" their common sense. That poster asking if or why anyone would want one or saying "ughh" is a far cry from questioning one's common sense as to why they'd buy anything other than a Lexus.

M

stevestein · October 2002

If you are such a German/European car nut why do you own a Japanese car? Surely you could have found a (possibly older) MB, BMW or similar car for around the same price. Seems your money and your mouth go in different directions.

gnc · October 2002

I was a enthusiastic MB fan for many years, even to the point of picking up my "MB" ML series at the plant in Vance, Alabama with the test drive, plant tour, ... I have been sorely dissapointed in my ML and am looking forward to my upgrade to the Lexus name-plate in the short term. I am convinced that Lexus has hit it "spot on" with their emphasis on a reliable high-quality luxury sedan without the attitude. I am looking forward to the upgrade!

dealin · October 2002

I bought a 2002 LS430 last year and ended up liking it so much that I convinced my mom to get one (a long time MB owner). She ended up getting a fully loaded UL package. What a sweat car. Already knowing what she wanted I contacted over 14 dealers to get the best price. She ended up buying it where I have had my car serviced (there service is A++++ and I am very picky), Lexus of Pleasanton. I typically find the whole dealer experience painful but not with these guys. Lets see, Great price and very very professional buying experience. I couldn't recommend them more. For the best price contact their internet sales man. Cacela, Steven [SCacela@hendauto.com]. Ask for the internet price.

mb_newbie · October 2002

Around 7 yrs ago, purchased the first Lexus (1st generation of GS); however, during the "negotiation" process, sales manager passed by and dropped the words "if you cannot afford it, don't get it...". Well, after I traded in the car two years later, I can only afford MB. (me and my wife still miss the car when we saw the old GS300 running around, and it is really an art from Italian designer, but we really don't "miss" the comments).
You can call me anything you want, the most important thing is: I am happy with my decision (no matter it is Lexus, BMW, or MB).
They are all "excellent" cars with different "attitudes".
Just my humble opinions.

chuck107 · October 2002

When you adjust the temp from the rear arm rest, should the front temps also change? This is what mine is doing. I would think that the front settings would be independent from the rear.

maxhonda99 · October 2002

merc1, Dumb? sorry to dissappoint you, but I never used the word dumb. Comprehension is the problem of someone else's. It's pretty much the same which ever way you want to slice it, you think you can crack on Lexus while nobody else should be allowed to. YOu can try and drive it home as many times as you want(maybe a million?) but the fact remains the same time and time again-you can bash, other's can't.

"Funny thing is , I keep getting mentioned in here. " How do you know you keep getting mentioned in here? Unless you troll the board you wouldn't know that would you? You should also think about something else, you get mentioned soo much because your posts are absolutely pointless, redundant, and one-sided. Now, you may go back to dreaming about that Benz you will never have.

stevestein, Merc1 has been discussing for years about buying a Mercedes on random boards. It has never materialized. Perhaps due to the stock market downturn?

carfan4sure · October 2002

Anybody used Lexus Link's premium service to call in for directions as you drive? Is that a practical and cheaper substitute for a Navigation system?

anthonycecil · October 2002

The lexus link works fine. You really need to try and anticipate a question before you need an answer, as the operator takes a little time to figure things out. It is good, but not good for a quick answer. The gps is good once you learn how to anticipate the chimes. Tony

pat · October 2002

and you certainly know who you are.

We are here to talk about CARS and not each other. Please refrain from personal attacks here - that sort of message is way outside the boundaries of your Membership Agreement, which you may review by following the link under the Logout button on the left side of this page.

Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

Thanks.

Pat
Sedans Host

jsb16 · October 2002

I have seen it conjectured here that there are usually significant changes three years into the model life span. I am looking to upgrade my LS400 to an LS430 but am in no rush since the LS400 is so great. I could get a 2003 now or wait a year but I would be interested in whatever I can find out about the expected changes.

stlouisslim · October 2002

The Ultra Lux is designed as a "semi-limo". That is, for the boss in the back seat with a driver in the front. Therefore both the A/C and audio controls are duplcated in the back seat. They are not separate and the back can be used to override the front controls. Try switching on the "Dual" switch and see how the front thermostats react to input from the rear seat controls. Short answer: yours is working as it was designed.

As for the Lexus Link substituing for the Nav System: this is exactly what the On-Star people want to do over at GM. They want to put the On-Star on every vehicle and leave off the Nav. In reality the Lexus Link operators have to look up every thing you ask for and the answers can be rather slow. In addition, they don't know where the most important POIs (freeway rest areas) are. With time, as you populate your own nav database, your nav system will prove more and more useful. The Lexus link is good for the occasional question, but it is no substitute for the nav system.

stlouisslim · October 2002

As you have seen on this board, the LS is due for a minor upgrade in 2004 and a major redesign in 2006 or later. We know that an LS500 is on its way, sometime, and a 550 engine may be in the works. There are also rumors of a "Sport LS" and a "Super Lexus". My Lexus regional rep says there may be a new model coming in between the GS and LS as well as a new LS trim line in addition to the current base/ML/Custom Lux/Ultra Lux lineup.

Now, which of these will be available in 2004 and which will be later is anybody's guess. But if your choice is between 2003 and 2004, I would go with the latter. The least you could expect would be a 10-15 hp bump, a juicier suite of luxury options, some minor but distinctive sheet metal changes and maybe a spifier suspension.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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