gnc: I also owned the ML (a good truck, but disappointing for an MB over the long run) and recently made the move to Lexus for the first time. I can't be happier with my decision--it was certainly "spot on" with my priorities for a large sedan. Since you mention having been a fan of MB vehicles, I would suggest you seriously consider the Eurotuned suspension option--you may feel more "at home."
BTW, thanks Pat.
carfan4sure: I am sure you already know this, but when considering the cost of the Lexus link, keep in mind you have to pay a yearly fee for the service.
jsb16, I believe it is to get a power boost for 2004, when the new GS-series cars debut. Looks I don't know about. I have a friend who works at Lexus' Eastern Region office in Parsippany, NJ. So far he doesn't know much(he's not high up) about the what changes will be made in 2004, but he has heard about a power increase as well as a slight facelift-again he doesn't know what it will look like.
brtmd: I can't seem to get an option package without Lexus Link. I don't think I'll ever use it. I was trying to come up with a creative way to get my money's worth out of it by using in lieu of Nav, but it sounds like it is not a useful substitute. It seems overpriced to me.
Thanking all of you for your comments I have read in the last six months to make up my mind which car to buy. Went in to a dealer ready to order new, but they had a lease come in with only 10K on it, so I saved a few dollars. I love the car and ride, however because of medical issues, my wife needs some of that Buick ride a few of you have mentioned. The car has 17 rims which I intend to change to 16's, but appears not to have the euro sport suspension. Does anyone know how to tell for sure? Dealer seems to be no help. Guess if it does, I might have to consider a trade. Are there any tire brands that ride smoother? Lesson here is, at least for me, do not buy a car without letting wife ride in it. And yes, we did have a Buick she was comfortable in for 5K trips. Say or think what you want about that. Any thoughts about my problem would be appreciated, other than going back to Buick. There are too many things I love about this car. CB
I'm far from a car expert, but given all the customization between low riders and monster trucks it would seem possible to get any ride you want. I just don't know if a Lexus dealer is the right place.
I'd look for an auto custom shop and talk to them about alternative suspension parts. Between softer shocks and possibly different springs you should be able to get the exact ride you want without compromising safe handling. I just checked here for a board on suspensions, but Edmonds doesn't have that as a topic under "aftermarket and accessories"
I expect some of the other folk here who are more knowledgable will have something to say as well.
it's not so much the wheel size(17 vs. 16)that makes a comfort difference,it's the tire aspect ratio and composition itself that matter. I don't recall the figures pffhand,but go back to the brochure;you'll notice that Lexus offered both a Euro suspension package and also just 17" tires. I'd hate to see you go to the expense of changing wheels;you could slightly lower air pressure for now,and when it comes to buying new tires,research what would be a softer tire. If you don't mind giving up a bit of performance(I wouldn't mind),you can certainally increase comfort.
CB: As chuck107 pointed out, there are small badges which say "Sport suspension" located near the front wheel wells on the Eurtotuned suspension models. I think your idea to change to the 16" wheels (with a corresponding increase in the sidewall height of the tire) is sound--you should get slightly better ride compliance/comfort.
gnc: The Eurotuned suspension has firmer shocks and springs. Has a larger rear antiroll bar. Also firmer suspension bushings. W rated tires which have more sidewall stiffness. There is definitely a different feel to the vehicle, which I prefer but would not be for everyone.
I do not have the euro badges, so am hoping to get a slightly softer ride with increased tire sidewall, which might be acceptable to my wife.
The only thing I find somewhat objectionable about the car is the throttle response. I believe someone in the past few months mentioned it as relating to gracefully closing the distance to the next car with the intention of preventing someone from slipping in front of you. Well, I agree. If I step on the accelerator I want immediate gratification, not some computer programmer who thought, well now, how fast does he intend to go-- I'll give him a little and see if he asks for more. A minor complaint for an otherwise excellent automobile. And I have noticed a similar characteristic in MB's. Yes, I know, this could also be described as aggressive driving-- CB
If you have developed small scrathes on the wood veneer, your only alternative to removing the scratches is by polishing. I used a diegrinder with a buffing wheel with jewelers rouge to remove scratches between the gear lever and armrest (if you use this method do NOT apply much pressure and do NOT allow excess heat to develop). Another method, more effort though, is to use auto polish for polyurethane paints. Using a small polyurethane sponge, apply the polish with your fingers and rub and rub and rub in a circular motion. I taped ALL the surrounding area so the rouge or polish would not spread where it would be difficult/impossible to remove. The polish method is cleaner because you control the polish but requires a lot of effort, the die grinder is easier but potentially messier.
I have seen several posts regarding owners who have RSW that get triggered when the weather is hot. I have the problem too but my dealer says they have not heard about it.
Does anyone have a service bulletin # or some other Lexus reference on this problem so I can show my dealer?
I have the same problem on my 02 LS. I haven't seen a service bulletin, but plan on discussing the problem with the service manager when I bring it in for regular maintenance. If your service manager is any good, he'll replace it without a service bulletin.
Wow, this isn't easy. I am trying to get price quotes for an LS 430 with Nav/ML and NO Lexus link. MSRP should be $61,392. Ordering without Lexus link requires a special factory order since they don't ship them that way. Visited dealership in Va. Beach and got quote of $59,757 (Lex link is $1,200 item). Have emailed internet managers twice at dealerships in Raleigh, Richmond, and two in Northern Va. and it is quite obvious that, with one exception, these guys are not interested in replying. Got one reply and fortunately it was a reasonable price--$57,765. Will probably order from them--Lexus of Alexandria. I think the 03 LS 430 is just too new and the inventories have not built up yet. Very frustrating process. Maybe they get a lower commission on internet sales. Or maybe they figure that if you're buying an LS you shouldn't be bothered bargaining. I guess a car salesman is a car salesman--some things never change--even at Lexus.
I had the same problem as mentioned about the wipers coming on on a hot day. At Park Place Lexus in Plano, Texas they replaced the rain sensor and it fixed the problem on my 02 LS430. This is the info from my repair order: TSB-EL006-0 part number: 8994150021 Sensor, Rain Hope this helps
trmga: I have had the same desire: get one with Nav/ML and No Lexus Link. Gave up, but got terrific quotes from Southern CA for a Nav/ML with Lexus Link, at least lower than what you been quoted. So cheap, I can afford to have it trailered to the Midwest and still save four figures. Don't know what it would cost to Mid Atlantic. They will sell you the car from Las Vegas to avoid CA taxes, if you wanted to make a car trip out of it.
Must have something to do with transportaion costs and amount of competition. Interesting that the only dealer that gave me a response and anyting even close to a reasonable (?) price was a dealer in the Washington DC area where there are a number of dealerships. Maybe I should try NY/NJ area (ugh). I think I'm going to end up paying the $57,765. At some point you just have to say "it's time to buy the damn thing" and get on with it. Since this will be my third Lexus I know that I will at least be getting one very good car. Good luck on your search Tim. Would be interested to know how it all shakes out.
Ordered 2003 UL in August from Chatham Parkay Lexus in Savannah, GA. Agreed to $$64,173 plus any increases for the '03 model. The car went up $520 but my additional amount was $420 since I ordered 17" wheels which were $100 in '02 but standard for '03. So the car cost me $64,593 net with a MSRP of $70,247 (Ultra Lux Pkg, Wheel Locks, and Trunk Mat) Took delivery (Millennium Silver with Black Aniline Leather) on September 25th. Absolutely love the car. Now have 1000 miles and not even one single defect or problem. If I got $5,654 discount on an Ultra Lux, I would think you should be able to get $4000 to $4500 off on one with Nav/ML and Lexus Link.
trmga: The latest quote from So. Cal. for the MSRP $62,607 car is $55,700. One dealer said, "that is not competitive,that's silly." I guess in So. Cal. it must be highly competitive and folks buy cars frequently so the volume is high. You might find out what it costs to trailer it... The internet has revolutionized buying a car; one is no longer hot boxed with successive sales people in a cubicle.
Yes, chuck107, it is a 2003. They didn't offer the NL (Nav/roof/ML) MZ (lexus link) package until 2003; it has front climate control seats, but not laser cruise control. Use those codes at www.kbb.com for new prices/options. I got a quote on a 2002 custom luxury for $57,447 plus tax and license in So. Cal. Email around and ask for the "internet price."
Does anyone know whether the '03 LS430 can be gotten with BOTH the Euro suspension and the air cooled front seats? It seems that if you order either the custom lux or the ultra lux (which has air suspension) you can't get the Euro ride. Thanks for any help!
2 questions: Any reason to pay more for a 2003 LS430 versus a 2002? And, as a first time Lexus buyer,is it possible to negotiate a deal close to invoice cost? Thanks.
ATT: gfe In spite of a $530 increase on the 2003, it probably makes more sense not to buy the 2002 due to the whole year of depreciation you would take right off the bat. You might get a 2002 at near invoice, but my guess is you will pay somewhere 5 to 7% over dealer cost on a 2003. I got a $5600 discount on a 2003 Ultra Lux. This was about 7% over dealer cost.
I think chuck107 is right. The only thing I would add is that if you keep a car for a long time that extra year won't make much difference. I bought my LS400 in 1990, but no one at this point, with 168,xxx miles on it, will pay me less cause its a year older. The car has thoroughly depreciated and a year won't make that much if any difference.
takakjian: Yes you can get both--I did. Order the ML/Nav combo option--which this year includes the climate control seats--along with the Eurotuned suspension option. Of course, you will be giving up the additional features (and cost) which are part of the custom and ultra packages. For me, the suspension choice took priority over the other features. BTW, since I had to factory order mine, I also got to nix the Lexus Link which I did not want (I see others have posted about this recently).
Since the Eurotuned suspension was a priority for you, I assume that you are completely satisfied with it? How would you describe the handling improvement compared to the regular suspension, and how much does the ride suffer? Also, if you don't mind me asking, with your factory order, how did you find the dealer's willingness to negotiate compared to buying it off the lot? I'm looking at the same option packages and am curious about what kind of a discount I could expect.
Thanks, brtmd, for the heads up on the combination of the two. Like you, if I had my druthers, I'd get the car without the Lexus Link nanny system. I'm curious; did you drive both the "regular" suspension and the air suspension, along with the Euro before making a decision? How do all three compare with one another in real-world driving? Also, how long does it take to get the car if you special order it? Thanks!
JBaumgart (and takakjian): Yes, I am very satisfied with the Euro suspension. What follows are my own subjective comparisons with the standard suspension LS: 1. It feels like the stiffer springs and tire sidewalls "load-up" faster so direction changes are quicker and more direct; there is less body lean with cornering and direction changes (like with a rapid lane change). I don't think the steering ratio is any different, but for every steering input, there is less delay to the intended action. 2. There is a more immediate sense of the road surface transmitted through the "seat of the pants"--probably resulting from the firmer suspension bushings, stiffer tire sidewalls, and altered shock damping; this would definitely be considered a negative by many, and rightly so. To me, the road feel through the steering wheel is still pretty isolated, but is also somewhat more "there". 3. As far as the ride, as you would expect, there is less isolation from bumps (feel them more), and I think there is slightly more road noise from the tires on more textured road surfaces.
However, keep in mind the reference point is the standard suspension LS430; the ride and noise levels are still better than in any other vehicle I have owned, so how could I be disappointed. With the Euro, I got just what I was looking for: handling and ride more like what I was familiar with from Mercedes combined with the the qualities for which Lexus is known.
With regard to my purchase/negotiation, mine was a bit atypical, and may not be very relevant to buying/ordering a 2003 right now depending on your market. However, the price I paid was about $4500 below MSRP with which I was completely satisfied.
takakjian: I have not driven an LS with the variable air suspension.
Thanks for the report - just what I was looking for, and it's probably just as Lexus intended when offering this option. I would imagine that your sensation of more direct steering feel is not due to any difference in the steering itself, but instead is a function of the firmer suspension and maybe tires? In any case it seems to work as advertised...
Also wondering what you went with in terms of other options, besides the upgraded stereo and Nav - also your impression of the color choices both exterior and inside.
Regarding the owner who's wife wanted a softer ride. I would switch to as "S" or "T" rated tire. Preferably a Michelin. This will soften expansion strips and small bumps over an "H" or higher rated tire. Just keep your speed below 108 mph.
The other option is to buy a set of 16" wheels from someone who upgraded.
JBaumgart: Agree with you completely on the steering--there is simply less "slack" to be taken up in the suspension when making directional changes.
As far as other options, I only have the chrome wheels, trunk mat, and wheel locks.
Color choice is, obviously, complete personal preference. Whatever you choose, I would make sure you see the particular color combination firsthand. I prefer the lighter colors and went with the Millennium Silver Metallic and the Light Charcoal interior. I have been happy with this combo on other vehicles with regard to the Texas heat (and having kids who aren't as careful with the interior). I like the chrome wheels with the silver paint (had seen them on a silver Ultra package when I was shopping)--kind of dresses up an otherwise conservative appearance. However, I read a British reviewer who thought the chrome wheels "tacky" on such a conservative vehicle; obviously, to each his/her own.
I preferred the lighter colors over dark...living in So. Calif. the lighter colors seem a bit cooler. Ended up the Milenium Silver, with Ecru interior. If you have kids, defininately go for the darker interior colors...or perhaps the light grey as "brtmd" suggests above. I'm single so I don't have to worry about foot prints on the back of the seats and on the roof...or smudgy little hands on the leather seats. The Ecru interior is very nice (others have also said so), but may take a little additional cleaning to keep them nice. It really hasn't been a problem for me.
As for options...I ended up with a Custom Lux. It has most all of the gadgets in the Ultra Lux, except for the back seat extras. (Being single, I'm more interested in my own comfort!!) I also got the chrome wheels...dresses up the car a bit.
Just a moist towel w/ leather cleaner. But remember, I don't have much dirt and grime...no kids. I only have to deal w/ the occassional light touch-up. However, I'd be interested to hear from those who have more "active" passengers. Eventually I'll have to do a more thorough job on the leather seats. It's still a new car (only 8K miles) on it so the seats still look pretty good.
Hi, I see many posts on how to purchase an LS430. I bought my LS430 from the internet sales manager at Johnson Lexus of Raleigh. Contact Shane Palmer. Cost to me was $2,500 over invoice cost. It was a quick deal. Got the Navigation/Mark Levinson package. That was the lowest price I could get, even using priceline. Buy at end of month - it makes a difference because the salepeople get paid their commissions usually the month after the month of sale.
ps - Anyone having problem with brake noise - taking mine in the shop for same. Almost sounds like the Anti-lock brake is activating. Help!!!
I have Ecru interior. The dealer (Pleasanton Lexus in CA) gave me a package to clean and maintain the car inside out. They will even provide a free replacement package once every two years. It works fine except the floor mats. I later bought a set of charcoal color floor mat to match the wood and dashboard color. It now works perfectly. I wish I had that idea before I bought the car and negotiate it as part of the deal instead of doughing out $130 for the new set.
I have a serious problem with my interior and dirt. Wish I could blame it on kids, but the fact of the matter is the spot where my elbow sits and the back of the seat are discolored (I think it may be from my leather jacket, and if its leather dye, I am just sunk). bcleepe, what exactly is in your "kit" for keeping the leather clean?
For sbenls430--You're the second poster in the last four or five months that has mentioned getting a good deal from the internet manager, Shane Palmer, at Johnson Lexus in Raleigh. I have sent him three emails in the past 2 1/2 weeks requesting a quote on an 03 LS 430 and have had absolutely no luck getting a response. Have given up on him. I have a feeling that once they suspect that you are trying to work one dealer against another they just don't want to talk to you.
Appreciate your thoughts, they seem to parallel mine. I decided to put four Blizzaks on the 17 rims for the winter, and buy 16 inch BBS rims next spring. Have you had experience that would indicate the Michelins are a smoother riding tire for the same speed rating? The Blizzaks are Q rated and a quite soft compound, which seems to have helped the ride a small amount, at the expense of increased tire noise. My wife also thinks the ride is better in the drivers seat? Does that mean she wants to drive all the time? CB
My wife also claims the ride is much better in the drivers seat, she says the floor carpet on the passengers side doesn't work very well as a brake pedal.
The car care kit provided by my dealer (Pleasanton Lexus located in San Francisco Bay Area) is Hendrick Autoguard. Hendrick owns the dealership. It contains 4 bottles: Exterior Renewer with Teflon, Sudsless Fabric Cleaner, Vinyl & Leather Conditioner, and CarWash Concentrate. The kit is manufactured in Charlotte, NC 28212. I believe Hendrick owns many dealerships around the country.
I'm considering a Lexus 430. According to the Lexus brochure, tire life on the 17"x7.5" wheels (the only ones the dealers are saying are available) is 20,000 miles or less. Is this true ?
Comments
BTW, thanks Pat.
carfan4sure: I am sure you already know this, but when considering the cost of the Lexus link, keep in mind you have to pay a yearly fee for the service.
So far he doesn't know much(he's not high up) about the what changes will be made in 2004, but he has heard about a power increase as well as a slight facelift-again he doesn't know what it will look like.
I'd look for an auto custom shop and talk to them about alternative suspension parts. Between softer shocks and possibly different springs you should be able to get the exact ride you want without compromising safe handling. I just checked here for a board on suspensions, but Edmonds doesn't have that as a topic under "aftermarket and accessories"
I expect some of the other folk here who are more knowledgable will have something to say as well.
I'd hate to see you go to the expense of changing wheels;you could slightly lower air pressure for now,and when it comes to buying new tires,research what would be a softer tire. If you don't mind giving up a bit of performance(I wouldn't mind),you can certainally increase comfort.
http://206.117.169.65/RoadTests/LexusLS430/Index.htm
gnc: The Eurotuned suspension has firmer shocks and springs. Has a larger rear antiroll bar. Also firmer suspension bushings. W rated tires which have more sidewall stiffness. There is definitely a different feel to the vehicle, which I prefer but would not be for everyone.
The only thing I find somewhat objectionable about the car is the throttle response. I believe someone in the past few months mentioned it as relating to gracefully closing the distance to the next car with the intention of preventing someone from slipping in front of you. Well, I agree. If I step on the accelerator I want immediate gratification, not some computer programmer who thought, well now, how fast does he intend to go-- I'll give him a little and see if he asks for more. A minor complaint for an otherwise excellent automobile. And I have noticed a similar characteristic in MB's. Yes, I know, this could also be described as aggressive driving-- CB
Does anyone have a service bulletin # or some other Lexus reference on this problem so I can show my dealer?
part number: 8994150021 Sensor, Rain
Hope this helps
Ron
Took delivery (Millennium Silver with Black Aniline Leather) on September 25th. Absolutely love the car. Now have 1000 miles and not even one single defect or problem.
If I got $5,654 discount on an Ultra Lux, I would think you should be able to get $4000 to $4500 off on one with Nav/ML and Lexus Link.
Any reason to pay more for a 2003 LS430 versus a 2002? And, as a first time Lexus buyer,is it possible to negotiate a deal close to invoice cost? Thanks.
Regards
However, keep in mind the reference point is the standard suspension LS430; the ride and noise levels are still better than in any other vehicle I have owned, so how could I be disappointed. With the Euro, I got just what I was looking for: handling and ride more like what I was familiar with from Mercedes combined with the the qualities for which Lexus is known.
With regard to my purchase/negotiation, mine was a bit atypical, and may not be very relevant to buying/ordering a 2003 right now depending on your market. However, the price I paid was about $4500 below MSRP with which I was completely satisfied.
takakjian: I have not driven an LS with the variable air suspension.
Also wondering what you went with in terms of other options, besides the upgraded stereo and Nav - also your impression of the color choices both exterior and inside.
I would switch to as "S" or "T" rated tire.
Preferably a Michelin.
This will soften expansion strips and small bumps over an "H" or higher rated tire.
Just keep your speed below 108 mph.
The other option is to buy a set of 16" wheels from someone who upgraded.
Both relatively inexpensive options.
As far as other options, I only have the chrome wheels, trunk mat, and wheel locks.
Color choice is, obviously, complete personal preference. Whatever you choose, I would make sure you see the particular color combination firsthand. I prefer the lighter colors and went with the Millennium Silver Metallic and the Light Charcoal interior. I have been happy with this combo on other vehicles with regard to the Texas heat (and having kids who aren't as careful with the interior). I like the chrome wheels with the silver paint (had seen them on a silver Ultra package when I was shopping)--kind of dresses up an otherwise conservative appearance. However, I read a British reviewer who thought the chrome wheels "tacky" on such a conservative vehicle; obviously, to each his/her own.
I preferred the lighter colors over dark...living in So. Calif. the lighter colors seem a bit cooler. Ended up the Milenium Silver, with Ecru interior. If you have kids, defininately go for the darker interior colors...or perhaps the light grey as "brtmd" suggests above. I'm single so I don't have to worry about foot prints on the back of the seats and on the roof...or smudgy little hands on the leather seats. The Ecru interior is very nice (others have also said so), but may take a little additional cleaning to keep them nice. It really hasn't been a problem for me.
As for options...I ended up with a Custom Lux. It has most all of the gadgets in the Ultra Lux, except for the back seat extras. (Being single, I'm more interested in my own comfort!!) I also got the chrome wheels...dresses up the car a bit.
Hope this helps, Best regards,
Jeff
I bought my LS430 from the internet sales manager at Johnson Lexus of Raleigh. Contact Shane Palmer. Cost to me was $2,500 over invoice cost. It was a quick deal. Got the Navigation/Mark Levinson package. That was the lowest price I could get, even using priceline. Buy at end of month - it makes a difference because the salepeople get paid their commissions usually the month after the month of sale.
ps - Anyone having problem with brake noise - taking mine in the shop for same. Almost sounds like the Anti-lock brake is activating. Help!!!
I've never had ANY problems with my LS400, except for an exasperating problem with slow downshifts from 20-40 MPH.
The car usually hesitates for 1/2 to 1 second, while deciding what to do, sometimes causing me to cancel the maneuver I was attempting.
I've been told that Lexus was testing a fix for this, but was not satisfied with the results.
Does anyone else have any additional information about this? Is it my imagination?
Appreciate your thoughts, they seem to parallel mine. I decided to put four Blizzaks on the 17 rims for the winter, and buy 16 inch BBS rims next spring. Have you had experience that would indicate the Michelins are a smoother riding tire for the same speed rating? The Blizzaks are Q rated and a quite soft compound, which seems to have helped the ride a small amount, at the expense of increased tire noise. My wife also thinks the ride is better in the drivers seat? Does that mean she wants to drive all the time? CB
The car care kit provided by my dealer (Pleasanton Lexus located in San Francisco Bay Area) is Hendrick Autoguard. Hendrick owns the dealership. It contains 4 bottles: Exterior Renewer with Teflon, Sudsless Fabric Cleaner, Vinyl & Leather Conditioner, and CarWash Concentrate. The kit is manufactured in Charlotte, NC 28212. I believe Hendrick owns many dealerships around the country.
BTW, The NYT reviews the E class tomorrow. I will be back to bash the car next week, and to justify my purchase. :-)